Jump to content
thegee

Why is Savage better on stalker?

Recommended Posts

I have read multiple times that Savage melee is better on stalkers due to mechanics. What exactly is the mechanic that makes it better on a stalker rather than on a scrapper?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the first I've heard of this. I'd like to know as well since i am currently playing a savage/nin scrapper

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In general, "Better on Stalker" means one of two things:

  • Stalkers receive a high dpa attack in the form of Assassinate. This often replaces a relatively low dpa single target attack, taking a set from mediocre single target damage to exceptional single target damage.
  • Stalkers receive an ATO proc that rapidly recharges Build Up. While this is always useful, it's even more useful with sets that also use Build Up for some other purpose.

I suspect the second reason is what's at work here since Savage Melee also generates its resource from Build Up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Evidently its more front loaded on stalker thus better.

 

Stalkers get Buildup instead of blood fury, which is a definite plus.  

 

The ST attack that the assainate attack replaces though is savages best ST attack.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I have a savage melee brute, scrapper and stalker all at 50 and all fully built. The stalker easily out performs the others. With hemorrhage hitting hard after rehiding thanks to my proc and with the build up proc kicking in I've been able to solo several AVs. While I'm sure I could do this on my brute and scrapper in time with a more substantial investment the stalker did it without purples or the superior version of the ATO sets

Edited by DocMidknight

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In a word: Hemorrhage.  I ran some pylon test-y stuff a couple months back and for reference:

 

Hemorrhage does lots of different things based on how much Blood Frenzy you've got and whether it lands a Hidden/Critical hit, so I tried it a few different ways.  The other "interesting" thing about Hemorrhage is that always does the same upfront damage and then appears to always register a Critical hit for the additional Frenzy-based damage (whether you have any to contribute to it or not).  It then deals 2 simultaneous DoTs, both of which scale up with additional stacks of Blood Frenzy.  If you do land a Critical Hit (or a Hidden one) the actual critical damage on the initial hit is lumped in with the faux-critical damage, but there's secret additional critical damage in the form of a third DoT that, like the other two, scales up.  It can get pretty wild!  Here's how the numbers came out:

 

Non-Hidden, No Blood Frenzy: 80.11 base portion, 33.75 "critical" portion, 244.5 damage over time.

Non-Hidden, Max Blood Frenzy: 80.11 base portion, 40.62 "critical" portion, 399.1 damage over time.

Hidden, No Blood Frenzy: 80.11 base portion, 80.11 "critical" portion, 667.56 damage over time.

Hidden, Max Blood Frenzy: 80.11 base portion, 80.11 "critical" portion, 996.89 damage over time.

 

And for fun, I added a Build-Up to that last one: 134.21 base portion, 134.21 "critical" portion, 1401.88 damage over time.

 

So, yeah, Hemorrhage is happy time.  It actually is better than AS from Hide, which really helps the fast-and-furious approach of the set.

 

That said, avoid Savage Leap on a stalker.  From the same playing around, I got up to 174-ish damage at best range, but from too far away, it appears it bugs out and does no damage, so it's a gamble, but on top of that, it breaks Hide, and has a 0% chance to deal Critical damage even when Hidden.  And point-blank it only does around 105, so it's not suited to Stalking.  If you want to leap in, grab Spring Attack instead.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I don't get the savage leap hate, I LOVE leaping into a crew, getting 3 blood, and then unloading with rending flurry. Especially against groups like Malta, DE, and sky raiders, where if you don't start laying the smackdown on the group NOW, someone's gonna pop out a gun turret or something.

Sure, it's a lot more scrappery than most stalkers, but then, isn't the whole powerset more scrappery than most stalkers? You have THREE Aoe's in the set. You can still play games with placate crits and autocrits and buildup procs and the like. You just enjoy mixing it with the crowd a bit more.

And spring attacks is picky, short range, and with a horrible cooldown.

There's absolutely NOTHING wrong with savage leap, especially for engaging new groups and dealing with annoying architecture. It just doesn't quite fit into some people's playstyles. Get it, learn it, if you like it, great... if you don't, respec out. For fun, hit an enemy with moonbeam crit at medium range and then immediately jump into their face laying down some smackdaon followed by an AS crit. Quality entertainment that eats bosses AND their crew.

Edited by Frostweaver
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So what would I substitute for Savage Leap? As you can see I don't have a whole lot of room for anything else. Would I sub in Spring Attack instead. Would it change any of my other slotting? Im at level 22 now so I would like to have a plan in place so I know what sets to acquire if that will change. Your thoughts are appreciated.

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.3
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Nightshredder: Level 50 Mutation Stalker
Primary Power Set: Savage Melee
Secondary Power Set: Invulnerability
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Savage Strike -- Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(A), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Mk'Bit-Dmg/Rchg(11), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(15), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 1: Hide -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(5)
Level 2: Shred -- Obl-Dmg(A), Obl-Acc/Rchg(3), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(11), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 4: Temp Invulnerability -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(5), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(9), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(13)
Level 6: Assassin's Frenzy -- SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprStlGl-Dmg/Rchg(7), SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), SprStlGl-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), SprStlGl-Rchg/Hide%(50)
Level 8: Resist Physical Damage -- RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg(9), RctArm-ResDam(17), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 10: Dull Pain -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(21), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(21), Prv-Heal/Rchg(40), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(40), Prv-Absorb%(40)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Ksm-ToHit+(42), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(42)
Level 14: Super Jump -- BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(A)
Level 16: Unyielding -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(17), ImpArm-ResPsi(19)
Level 18: Rending Flurry -- Erd-Dmg(A), Erd-Dmg/Rchg(23), Erd-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23), Erd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 20: Environmental Resistance -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(25), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(25), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(45), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 22: Build Up -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(43), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(43), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(43), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(48), GssSynFr--Build%(48)
Level 24: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Hemorrhage -- SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAssMar-Dmg/Rchg(27), SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), SprAssMar-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), SprAssMar-Rchg/Rchg Build Up(33)
Level 28: Reinforced -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(29), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(29), Rct-Def/Rchg(36), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(36), Rct-ResDam%(37)
Level 30: Tough -- ImpArm-ResPsi(A), ImpArm-ResDam(31), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(31), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg(31)
Level 32: Savage Leap -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(34), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(37)
Level 35: Tough Hide -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def(36), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(46)
Level 38: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(39), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(39), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(39)
Level 41: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(42), RechRdx-I(48)
Level 44: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 47: Superior Conditioning -- EndMod-I(A)
Level 49: Physical Perfection -- Heal-I(A)
Level 1: Assassination 
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(50)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A)
Level 1: Blood Frenzy 
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon 
------------

 

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1502;697;1394;HEX;|
|78DA6594594F135114C767DAA98542A195A5EC8552A06519A8FA6EA2A861293621F|
|1958CF6D28E36D3A61D087579F07BB826AE2F3EFBA2513F811BBEF8056429E06E54|
|ACA7F33F059299A4F9DDFB9FFF3DF79C737B27BE3259FFE4CCF5E392EC3D99D10A8|
|5857953CB5C12F99AF892A9997AD690E8F1CEE9A9B45948E7453229F26E523AD8B6|
|10171921D4796D594B094C82D5579362511805A14E19CB4B1943E4B5F37A46378BF|
|E29232DF2C230D5EAA03E91CD66D459A1E57423E5B526A72B1BD2CC63CDE6734224|
|1BAB2E4AA190D673EDA772FA05F54436595C886B0553E48BD5DCDB28C121FA3D8B4|
|8FC94156991105324470AF4A4C1061D1CBD084E5516CAD61A596A912D4DF181CF23|
|FC8AE2C97F1C88F717F4EC820DFFC0D1323843F19C88E7747E7322DE77B0E62758F|
|F0B5CA5F82E785DAED7D00EBD61BE65EF3BF0F07B30B60A4ED33E6EDEC7DD438321|
|8A1F047D2130D607CE92B71675B86A3F617DF31A731D1CDA606E324B602B9D7E1DF|
|671D4717FA2BB34ED26CEC013208F17F125EF47F4E16954921A795D6340B6FCBE23|
|5C4B1479BDA0FAFD58E7F4AF392C4FEB0673131C2B8173544313E2294DDCD736EE6|
|BDB0F7094FB3BC6FDFD40F15BB8EE967BC86BF83EF301F32138FE88F91894A9A600|
|D71428D323BDA468ED1CAD7D45B15C1D45E665B0F70AF32AF31A7896B2EFE493EED|
|C42765DDBCC1DB0FF33F30B18FE0A3A29936E3EE96EEE5C4F8419660E80AF28C720|
|E718BC81BDFB6E326F316F83E13BCCBB6082720CF18985F806F4378363D59B41B90|
|C702E03AC0DB26790D70CFAC11079231C2F3282DB16658E33FDE41981471AA9EE41|
|7F099535B5173E376913AC4D84A1752A7BB7BDDCB53FAE4CE9B4866DCA844D89D99|
|4A336E5984D99B5290965EF3B21C99652EBA3AF00E756F2D05BF9E0DBED7D4596A7|
|F9AE9E43F55B36F7CE4185FB21F6BF5AE5DFAD24F1F83F52AE08B3|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Edited by the mauler

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, the mauler said:

Would I sub in Spring Attack instead. Would it change any of my other slotting?

That'd probably be what I'd do, yeah.  Spring uses the same Enhancement sets (PBAoE) so you wouldn't have to change anything.  Just drop Savage Leap and put Spring Attack there instead since you already have the prerequisites in your build.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there a way to make a bind range based? Since it sounds like leap would be good if you could always hit it at the right range.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Back new to the game from playing a lot during live.  One glaring question or did I miss something new on stalkers?  No placate?!?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lifeblood2112 said:

Back new to the game from playing a lot during live.  One glaring question or did I miss something new on stalkers?  No placate?!?

Not necessarily "no" Placate, but as a power, it's a lot less critical (no pun intended) than it used to be.  For one, the sped-up version of AS that comes when using it outside of Hide, and the Assassin's Focus mechanic (which you can read more about here) means Stalkers are a lot Scrapper-ier than they used to be.  Combine this with the fact that Homecoming has made the special Archetype-based Enhancements much easier to obtain than they were for the short time they were available in the legacy server days, and one of those gives all your attacks a chance to re-Hide you anyway, and the whole "one power with a semi-long Recharge and semi-long animation to put you back into Hide on command" is simply seen as less valuable.

 

I'm still fond of taking it, since builds on the whole tend to be more Enhancement slot thirsty than Power slot thirsty, and Placate is still situationally useful.  However new mechanics mean that it's not the must-take-immediately Power that it used to be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...