Greycat

Hahahah.... no. God, I don't even have to go past this one sentence. I've been trying to be polite here. But the more you type, the more you really show you don't get it, and/or refuse to get it, and the cost/benefit of this conversation is skewing heavily towards "all cost, no benefit."

You aren't understanding the idea of the cost. Especially for a power with this much potential impact. No.

... I want to say a somewhat similar mechanic was introduced at one point to Quantum Flight back on live. Not sure just how related they may be.

And this circles right back to "If it's not required but it's something you want, there should be a cost to picking it." ... part of why the thread is so long. :)

Because not everyone plays for the biggest numbers. If my character's supposed to fly, I'll gain more enjoyment out of the game if they're flying, not if they're jumping around.

Mentioned previously, but currently a very clunky workaround is: - Activate fly - Select fly pose - Activate hover. The fly pose will stick. (I think until you stop.) No, it's not ideal. Yes, I want it fixed, too.

"Inherited" means something handed down, typically from parent to child. ("I inherited this house." "I inherited my mom's blue eyes and my dad's early bald spot.") Are you suggesting that once one character takes Hasten, all characters made on that account on that server get it pre-selected? The other possibility has already had "why this is a bad idea" explained repeatedly (including the stamina reference and why it is not the same as Hasten) in the other thread.

Just so you know, the five powers per pool we have now? That caused some *issues* when it first happened. They *were* fixed in beta, but it broke three whole ATs for quite a while. (Dominators - as Domination either wasn't able to be activated or activated while selecting something else, and Peacebringers and Warshades had powers shifted to where they were practically unplayable unless you liked playing "guess which power is going to go off now.") So two followon questions for the suggested change: What are you adding to the speed pool to make up for it now having one less power? Do we add powers to all the other power pools so they all have six now? Fighting, Concealment, Leadership, Medicine? Yes, this is a legitimate followon, since you're now changing the design of power pools. And yes, it is different from slotting your powers for recharge, as you should well know. If it were no different, you wouldn't be arguing for it to be inherent, since you could just slot for more recharge by tweaking your builds for slotting and set bonuses that give recharge. It's an instant cut to recharge on almost all powers. Trying to downplay it by "that's all it is" means either you're being dishonest about it to try to minimize the impact, or you're undercutting your *own* opinion about how necessary and powerful it is. I'd rather not believe either of those.

All of this has been covered in the rest of the thread, including the difference between STamina being made inherent (and the cost to get to stamina) and making Hasten inherent.

OK, issues with that: 1. What power is removed from all the other travel pools to make room for it? 2. Double, Triple or Quad-Hasten is just not going to fly without a severe nerf to Hasten. Not even in Fly. 3. It thematically doesn't *fit* in the other pools. What about Leaping says "Hasten?" What about Fly does? Or Teleport? 4. Assuming you don't want to fit it in Experimentation as well, do we move Adrenal Booster down? Do we then either nerf it (removing the +Dam and +Tohit) or add THOSE to hasten? There are a good number of followon effects to that.

It's called "opportunity cost." You want something, especially that powerful, there's a cost to be paid. ONE pool pick and no prerequisites for hasten is pretty *cheap,* honestly. And the "whole pool" is junk? Superspeed is popular, and is getting a useful buff in the next patch. Burnout gives a recharge boost on demand. Whirlwind used to be "a thing" on live for a while - I don't recall if it was from PVP or something else. Flurry... well, is flurry. That could use some looking into. Honestly, I think the only reason Hasten isn't farther in the pool like Adrenal Booster is that *all* it does is give +Recharge, not other buffs.

So I went back in. Having two people mention this means I need to look again. I have no idea what happened. I was getting a 1' difference between the two when I wrote that, with mobs aggroing on both (no aura that should taunt or anything similar.) And getting them to aggro by just standing there (no auras, etc. that could taunt.) And now I'm not. And seeing the above-mentioned stealth radius. So... all right, disregard that portion. :D Edit... though, I'm going to test and see if it happens on making a second build, since that's the way I did it on the first test. Edit 2: Nope. Did a second build on a second character, got the different radii. I have no explanation.

Well, then that isn't working, because (a) both of them show 35-36 feet and (b) enemies react just like they do with current stealth, instead of invisibility. I *did* go test and compare, after all, before posting what I did. I invite you to do the same - Use a second build on someone on live that's at least level 14, take both Stealth and Invis. Look at the numbers in the power monitor. Walk up to even level mobs with stealth - they will notice you and react. Switch to invisibility, find a new set (or wait for them to de-aggro,) notice they don't. Transfer character to test. Get stealth and infiltration. Do the same test, look at the power monitor. Power monitor shows the same (1 ft difference, actually) numbers. And the mobs react the exact same way - they aggro when you're on them with both powers. Like I said, I *did* test this. (Which also leads to the point on the celerity IO. Also tested.) Edit: And I went back and retested. I have no idea what happened that gave me the short radius on both powers during my first test. I didn't have a taunt/damage aura up, and combat monitor showed the short radius on both the first time. Going back in, I got the longer radius. I'll see later if I can figure out a way to reproduce it, but.... odd. Original post updated.

Ahh. OK, that makes more sense.

Ummm.... It... can be taken without ever touching superspeed? Right at level 4? Can I put the "Confused" emoji on my own posts?

... you know, this is something I'd love to see be enemy specific. Demons, ghosts, fire imps, Girlfriends from Hell, anything really fire based? No fear effect. Robotic? Delayed fear effect. Or a fear -> hold (processors overheated and they shut down.) Everything else? Darn right they're running away. They're on *fire.* That crap hurts!

Get on test and test. (Everyone do that.) And give feedback in the focused feedback threads. What I'm happiest about with Super Speed now is the fact you have some *vertical* mobility (IE, you have a jump boost) after a few seconds. Granted, I'd still probably take Combat Jumping on top of it, but that's me (and probably out of habit more than anything.)

Honestly, the idea of that pool is too... er, generic... for me to really have an opinion on right now. That said, it's hasten. Thematically, it *is* tied to speed, so there'd have to be a really good argument for moving it (and what to replace it with in the speed pool) for me to go along with it.

Yeah. I didn't see one in the tailor. My concern with that, coming to think of it, is that people may take it and think they *are* (current-level) invisible... which they aren't, other than aesthetically.

It isn't, and never has been, "mandatory," and no it should *not* be made inherent. Ever. Edit: For clarity - this is coming from literally hundreds of characters of all ATs on live and here. For most of mine that take hasten, it's a late or "I have nothing else I really want" choice, and I probably don't slot it. It's only "mandatory" for specific playstyles - and apparently not even permadom needs it any more (I don't play permadom since I *like* the up-and-down of standard domination.) There are very few powersets I feel like I have to take hasten on... so few that the only one I can really think of is Illusion (which, itself, is not one of my favorite powersets,) and that mostly because of Phantom Army, how early it comes and how heavily it's used.

OK, so, concealment. The biggest issue here, to me, is that we lost Invisibility, for two reasons - 1. Both stealths (the stealth and the new travel power) have a 35ish foot PVE radius, versus Invisibility's 55 (ish) foot. Which means that, unlike Invisibility, I can't just walk up to a mob and - Perception buffs or ignoring invis (like Rikti drones) aside - not be noticed. (Example, live, walking up and firing off a nuke or rain.) Edit: I have no idea what happened while I was testing this the first time. Both were showing the same short radius (and yes, I did make sure I had the right toggle on, and had no taunt auras. I even zoned to get to some even con mobs from where I did the second build to check this and other powers out.) After feedback, I went back in and stealth *was* showing the larger radius, and mobs were not aggroing. Which is just ... odd, there's no patch I know of in between, so... yeah. Disregard point one, then! Though, if anyone else runs across or can duplicate the short-radius Stealth, obviously, note how and let the devs know. 2. There's no power making you *invisible.* You're now translucent. OK, yes, aesthetic thing, but it fit some characters. You can make others invisible with Grant Invisibility, or be Illusion or a stalker, but it's been lost for everyone else. Potential Suggestions: 1. +Stealth IO/enhancement, only works in Stealth powers. Boosts stealth range. Not needed, see edit from 1. 2. Celerity +Stealth. However, I don't consider this ideal because I may not *want* the movement boost from Infiltration. (Plus, for the second point, it doesn't do anything for the "I'm invisible!" aspect.) I suspect this will happen quite a bit. Especially for those who like toe-bombing. 3. Remove the exclusivity between stealth and infiltration - again, wouldn't change the graphical aspect of it. (See edit from 1.) 4. Grant Invisibility becomes a self-affecting toggle. (May annoy teammates.) CAN the graphical aspect of being *invisible* (with the aura) be put in as an option, at the very least? Edit: So now the only real complaint I have after retesting is the lack of graphical invisibility.

So poking around a bit - Yeah, getting a good fly pose on Hover when running HOver+Fly would be nice. Workaround, if people remember, is to hit Fly, set a fly pose, then add Hover, as that keeps the pose. It is, however, very clunky. If you have Hover running already, flypose doesn't have any effect.

Need to update the trainer text for level 2, since they say they grant you fitness then. Minor thing.

Question - will something else go in the Command of the Mastermind ATO set, since these only go in pets and pets no longer take recharge buffs? Three pieces in that set have recharge in them. (Acc/Dam/Rech, Damage/End/Rech, Rech/AOE def aura.)

Given powers are being combined and replaced, I'd call it a safe bet there'll be a respec given.