One free travel power at character creation?

[ShardWarrior]

1 minute ago, Steampunkette said:

Having a travel power at level 1 would be 'nice' and all, but it's really not pressing enough to destroy 4 power pools, gut 1 power pool, and either redesign them or simply remove them.

Not sure it would destroy the power pools per se and redesigning/adding to them can be a good thing.  Most still have other desirable powers in them. 

[dmaker]

I'd be thrilled if there was a "gravitational belt" or " legion flight ring" item from P2W. The jetpack is great, but doesn't fit with a Superman type build.

 

[Yoru-hime]

If this were altered to "Can we get freebie travel powers that don't typecast us as martial artists or beastmen?" would it generate the same reactions with regards to balance? How about a request for a No or Minimal FX Jetpack?

 

I, too, was initially inclined to call "powercreep", but really, that ship sailed long ago. Ninja Run, Jump Pack, Jetpacks for nominal cost, more Prestige Teleports than you can shake a Nemesis Staff at. Paragon Studios was already handing out enough goodies to make travel powers very optional. I'll take Fly sometimes, but I've tried taking Super Jump and I found that I wasn't even bothering to use it. Ninja Run and Sprint gets me there just as fast as any flier, so I reclaimed the power slot with a respec and never looked back.

 

This works for me because that free-running martial artist bouncing rooftop to rooftop movement style works well with a lot of my characters, but I can certainly see frustration that some styles of character can get around for free while others are forced to either compromise on concept every time they have to go from point A to point B or pay power picks to get something more visually neutral.

 

Personally, I'd be more inclined towards a major revamping of P2W's travel options than messing around with the power pools directly, but the end result would probably be pretty similar to the OPs request. Whatever the actual implementation, I don't think the "powercreep" argument against it really holds up well. That's a line that was moved back in Live, for good or for ill. Expecting characters to generally be on the same side of that line regardless of concept seems totally fair to me.

[Steampunkette]

49 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

Not sure it would destroy the power pools per se and redesigning/adding to them can be a good thing.  Most still have other desirable powers in them. 

If they set all travel powers to 'Free at level 1' they'd need to redesign the actual travel power pools themselves. They're all built around the idea of having the travel power be the central 'Thing' that they are.

 

Cutting that out to give it to everyone at level 1 doesn't just require 'adding' to them, it means you need a reason to have them exist at all.

 

I get the whole "Let's just replace the one removed power!" push, but it's no longer the "Flight" pool if "Flight" isn't a part of it, y'know? It also means you wouldn't be able to combine SS and SJ, since they'd both be torn out so you can get 1 of the 2 at level 1. Meanwhile Mystic Flight (And all the other Origin Pools) would either need to get removed or get seriously revamped to avoid being a 'wasted' power pick.

[Jeuraud]

The Wasp is Flight, Flash is Superspeed, and one of the first things Hulk does is Super Jump. These characters started with these travel powers and with the first two the Travel Power is a part of their identity as a Sup. I've never understood the CoH Devs' idea around separating the Travel Powers from the identities.

 

What I suggest is a Travel Pool you select from at character creation,

Travel Pool

Parkour (Ninja Run)

Superspeed

Super Jump

Flight

Teleport

Mystic Flight

 

but leave the Travel Powers in their respective pools for people who want to make say... Superman, who has 3 Travel Powers. Also the power you select at creation would go towards the requirements for the higher tier powers.

 

Edited September 23, 2019 by Jeuraud
Forgot Mystic Flight.

[ShardWarrior]

2 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

I get the whole "Let's just replace the one removed power!" push, but it's no longer the "Flight" pool if "Flight" isn't a part of it, y'know?

It kind of still is though if you want to take Hover or Afterburner. 

[Steampunkette]

Just now, ShardWarrior said:

It kind of still is though if you want to take Hover or Afterburner. 

That's not Flight. That's the "Hover" pool.

 

The signature power, the -defining- power of the pool is gone. Instead it's just 'Here's some other variations on your flight power'

 

'Variations of Flight' Power Pool. Perfect.

 

Nah. Slap a different version on the P2W vendor and it'll avoid not only that problem, but also the UI design, power pool rebalance, new power creation, etc.

[ShardWarrior]

1 minute ago, Steampunkette said:

That's not Flight. That's the "Hover" pool.

 

The signature power, the -defining- power of the pool is gone. Instead it's just 'Here's some other variations on your flight power'

 

'Variations of Flight' Power Pool. Perfect.

 

Nah. Slap a different version on the P2W vendor and it'll avoid not only that problem, but also the UI design, power pool rebalance, new power creation, etc.

Hovering is still flying.

 

Don't get me wrong, I definitely agree it's more work/trouble than it's worth, just that I don't find the suggestion all that terrible.

[Steampunkette]

4 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

Hovering is still flying.

 

Don't get me wrong, I definitely agree it's more work/trouble than it's worth, just that I don't find the suggestion all that terrible.

And Religion is a form of Philosophy. That doesn't make Sartre the Existentialist Pope.

 

It's just not the same thing if you pull out the linchpin. Linchpower? Whatever.

 

I think it's way more trouble than it's worth to do it as the OP suggests. To get around that while still giving them what they want: P2W options. 

[Vanden]

14 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

If they set all travel powers to 'Free at level 1' they'd need to redesign the actual travel power pools themselves. They're all built around the idea of having the travel power be the central 'Thing' that they are.

 

Cutting that out to give it to everyone at level 1 doesn't just require 'adding' to them, it means you need a reason to have them exist at all.

 

I get the whole "Let's just replace the one removed power!" push, but it's no longer the "Flight" pool if "Flight" isn't a part of it, y'know? It also means you wouldn't be able to combine SS and SJ, since they'd both be torn out so you can get 1 of the 2 at level 1. Meanwhile Mystic Flight (And all the other Origin Pools) would either need to get removed or get seriously revamped to avoid being a 'wasted' power pick.

They wouldn't have to rework the power pools or anything, even if they gave you a free travel power at level one there'd still be four other travel powers that the player might potentially want to take.

[dmaker]

15 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

I get the whole "Let's just replace the one removed power!" push, but it's no longer the "Flight" pool if "Flight" isn't a part of it, y'know?

I totally get that, but just because one can choose one free travel power at creation, does not mean those pools would still not contain the flagship travel power. What if someone wanted "inherent" Fly, but also wanted super jump? Being only able to select one free one at creation would mean if you want one of the other ones, you need to selec that pool during your levelling. 

[dmaker]

13 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

Nah. Slap a different version on the P2W vendor and it'll avoid not only that problem, but also the UI design, power pool rebalance, new power creation, etc.

This is fine too, but it would cost influence (especially if you used it all the time, not to just get to the top of a building or across a map for a mission, like I do with the jetpack), and it can't be slotted which means it might capped at a slower speed than the actual power. That would not be fun, and would lead to people avoiding it for the true power. I don't mind a slower jetpack if I only use it to get to certain places and is not part of my primary theme. But otherwise...dunno.

 

 

[Steampunkette]

"Just keep the original pools like they are and add this at level 1!"

 

 

As to the P2W versions: I don't mean 'Jetpack'. I mean 'Actual Flight Travel Power' and Superspeed, Superjump, All of them. 4 hour timer, 15 million influence. Absolute purchasing cap of level 20. It'll bridge you through the first 3 levels 'til you can get the actual power without allowingminmaxers  to use all the travel powers without sacrificing for their builds

[PaxArcana]

1 hour ago, dmaker said:

That would be fine, but not what I was getting at. I don't care at all about a travel power at level 1. I was imagining a way to avoid spending 1/4 ancillary pools on a travel power where that one power is the only thing you want from that pool.

Sprint + Ninja Run is almost as good as Superspeed.  I can only presume Beast Run + Sprint is the same.

 

You can go all the way to 50+3 without an actual Travel Power.

Edited September 23, 2019 by PaxArcana

[ShardWarrior]

15 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

And Religion is a form of Philosophy. That doesn't make Sartre the Existentialist Pope.

 

It's just not the same thing if you pull out the linchpin. Linchpower? Whatever.

 

I think it's way more trouble than it's worth to do it as the OP suggests. To get around that while still giving them what they want: P2W options. 

 

15 minutes ago, Vanden said:

They wouldn't have to rework the power pools or anything, even if they gave you a free travel power at level one there'd still be four other travel powers that the player might potentially want to take.

 

14 minutes ago, dmaker said:

I totally get that, but just because one can choose one free travel power at creation, does not mean those pools would still not contain the flagship travel power. What if someone wanted "inherent" Fly, but also wanted super jump? Being only able to select one free one at creation would mean if you want one of the other ones, you need to selec that pool during your levelling. 

Beat me to it.   😀  I see a lot of people taking SS/SJ or SS/Fly.

 

Also, 15 million is pricey for player totally new to the game.

[Steampunkette]

26 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

 

 

Beat me to it.   😀  I see a lot of people taking SS/SJ or SS/Fly.

 

Also, 15 million is pricey for player totally new to the game.

Sure. But it can also work as an Influence Sink to get money out of the economy. 

[Haijinx]

It probably wouldn't change the game at all, but there isn't any reason to change it either.  

 

I never get travel powers anyway.  

 

I just buy a jetpack.   

 

 

 

[ShardWarrior]

I'd prefer spending 15 mil on another costume slot TBH.  🙂

[Megajoule]

Sounds to me that the OP's particular issue is "I can only have four power pools, total, ever, and taking just one power out of a pool uses up one of those."

Can we address that limit instead?

[MunkiLord]

I don't believe mix/maxers should be a factor in this. Many of us already skip travel powers in our build or only take them because we have an extra power choice and already have Hasten/Combat Jumping. This would have little to no impact on my builds. 

[PaxArcana]

12 minutes ago, Megajoule said:

Sounds to me that the OP's particular issue is "I can only have four power pools, total, ever, and taking just one power out of a pool uses up one of those."

Can we address that limit instead?

I cannot imagine why someone would need more than four Pools (plus their Epic), anyway.  I mean ... what the heck are they DOING that they need all four pools, and can't spare one for a travel power?!?

Edited September 23, 2019 by PaxArcana

[Vanden]

9 minutes ago, PaxArcana said:

I cannot imagine why someone would need more than four Pools (plus their Epic), anyway.  I mean ... what the heck are they DOING that they need all four pools, and can't spare one for a travel power?!?

Well, trust me, it can certainly happen. If they actually did give us a free travel power at level 1, though, it should probably count against the four pool limit, and if that limit is lifted, it should be its own thing.

Edited September 23, 2019 by Vanden

[Display Name]

Why not put all the travel powers in a single pool called "Super Travel" or something and keep the level 4 requirement?  I like Combat Jumping.  But CJ can't reach the upper level from the ground towards the back of "that certain warehouse map."  I think Super Jump is cool, but I prefer Fly.  So I would probably pick Combat Jumping for the added defense vs Immobilization and pick Flight for the maneuverability.

 

Oh, and I hate caves enough as it is without falling to the bottom of the multi-level cave room and having only Combat Jumping/Super Jump to get back up.  It makes me want to call the contact and end the mission.

 

I have no objection to level 1 but level 4 has always been satisfactory for me.

[Rathulfr]

19 minutes ago, PaxArcana said:

I cannot imagine why someone would need more than four Pools (plus their Epic), anyway.  I mean ... what the heck are they DOING that they need all four pools, and can't spare one for a travel power?!?

One less travel power = Hasten or one more power with a defense effect (Combat Jumping, Hover, Maneuvers, or Stealth).  YMMV

Edited September 23, 2019 by Rathulfr

[Sovera]

Speaking as a min maxer and a RPer I'd say yes to the idea. It's just different from what we currently have so the first reaction is to go 'but back in my time...!'.

 

I was part of that time. It was not a good time. Being sent to the Hollows with no travel powers was such a noob trap that worked so well that we had kind players going there and advertising teleport taxis for those who were sent on Sprint's miserable running speed dodging a maze of canyons and purple mobs back and forth across the huge map.

 

I have been trying to bring friends to play the game with me (with an abysmal 0% success rate) and I remember trying to sell them traveling powers as fun. In one occasion I was working one of them through going to the P2W, locate the double XP, then go kill stuff with them for a few minutes until level, then take them to the trainer, then it all turned moot as they were innocent of the UI and just picked a normal power instead of locating the pool powers section.

 

 

An emphatic YES to the idea. Every newbie that knows jack nothing about the game and is trying it for the first time should not have to guess that they will get a travel power at level 4. At the character creation and before being able to enter the game they would have that option for the basic travel powers.

 

And it really removes nothing from the game. IE, we still have the Fly pool with *perks* for the character creation picked travel power. Get Hover, now you can float almost free (almost, when do we get CJ endurance costs for Hover?), get Afterburner, now you can fly faster.

 

 

It's not because it's super easy to get to level 4 for us, and most of the time we have builds all planned already.

 

A friend of mine is always bouncing around in ninja run despite RPing a myriad of thematic characters where ninja running is completely out of place, all of this because she has an idea of what she wants, but she lacks that experience in the game that a more veteran player has, the sort of thing that lets me know there is no point in rushing to pick all my defensive toggles under level 22 since only when we can slot IOs do they become semi useful, and running them pre-22, on empty slots, draining our endurance, is not necessary, which means we can, yes, take out fully upgraded Fly with Hover and Afterburner by level 14.