Playing against type?

[biostem]

So, there are a few powersets in most ATs that allow you to reach ever so slightly beyond what that AT's typical role/gimmick is.  We've all heard the stories or experienced it first hand where this approach doesn't work, but for this thread, I'd love to hear your stories about where it actually worked very well.

 

For instance, I've seen some amazing gravity controllers who practically play like blasters.  I've seen at least 1 claws stalker who managed to really take advantage of the ranged attacks in that set.  What sort of "outliers" have you seen?  Which unexpected combinations that extend/break the boundaries of, an AT's typical role, have you witnessed or uncovered?  Thanks!

[oxmox]

Controllers overall really jump to mind when you mention this. I think they have to be the AT that covers the widest variety of playstyles between different power sets and builds. Fire/Kin are AoE damage machines and Illusion with a debuffing secondary can solo almost anything. Then on the flip side you have something like earth control which has enough lockdown to deal with more enemies than you could ever reasonably fight at once. Then you've got more middle of the road sets like grav and mind that combine solid lockdown with some decent damage options that let you play more like a dominator.

 

Combine that with all the varieties of buff/debuff/heal/control/damage available in the secondaries and you could probably make a dozen controllers before getting any that play the same way.

 

Though I guess at that point it's less one controller going 'outside their role' and more 'the role is whatever you feel like'.

[Twisted Toon]

/Ninja Training Blasters make fairly decent mini controllers. they have a nice bag of ST control powers, in addition to melee attacks and stealth. Pair that with a primary that also has some control powers and you'll have a Blaster that can lock down a lot of things. Maybe not as well as a Controller, but still...

 

back on live, I had an Ice/Ice blaster that routinely held bosses.

[PaxArcana]

4 hours ago, biostem said:

I'd love to hear your stories about where it actually worked very well.

Corruptors were born from the epic success Defenders had, playing against type and focussing on their Secondary (blast) powers instead of their primary (buff/debuff/recovery) powers: Offenders, the original against-Archetype builds.

[PaxArcana]

Also, Brutes are sort of anti-Tankers, and Dominators are kind of anti-Controllers.  Not exactly, but they were each designed to somewhat turn their Heroic parallels on their heads.

[biostem]

14 minutes ago, PaxArcana said:

Also, Brutes are sort of anti-Tankers, and Dominators are kind of anti-Controllers.  Not exactly, but they were each designed to somewhat turn their Heroic parallels on their heads.

Well, I always kind of thought of brutes as the unholy, (but quite effective), offspring of tankers + scrappers, but your point is taken.  Dominators are, IMO, a whole 'nother animal - kind of a controlling blapper-thing.  😰

Edited September 24, 2019 by biostem

[Coyotedancer]

My Dark/Bio/Dark Sentinel, Tavaris? He makes a pretty respectable off-tank. XD

[PaxArcana]

2 hours ago, biostem said:

Well, I always kind of thought of brutes as the unholy, (but quite effective), offspring of tankers + scrappers, but your point is taken.  Dominators are, IMO, a whole 'nother animal - kind of a controlling blapper-thing.  😰

The parallels I would draw are:
 

Brutes ... Tankers

Stalkers ... Scrappers

Corruptors ... Defenders/Blasters

Dominators ... Controllers/Blasters

Masterminds .... no direct parallel.

🙂

[biostem]

3 minutes ago, PaxArcana said:

The parallels I would draw are:
 

Brutes ... Tankers

Stalkers ... Scrappers

Corruptors ... Defenders/Blasters

Dominators ... Controllers/Blasters

Masterminds .... no direct parallel.

🙂

Hmmm.... I'd go like this:

 

Brutes - Tankers/Scrappers

Stalkers - Scrappers

Corruptors - Blasters/Defenders

Dominators - Controllers/Blasters

Masterminds - Defenders/Tankers/Blasters

[PaxArcana]

By design, Masterminds were never meant to be tankers.  Bodyguard was not part of the Archetype when CoV launched - it took a couple Issues before that happened.  (The Bad Old Days when an ambush mean you WERE going to be waking up in the hospital when playing an MM...)

[Lazarillo]

My main namesake character is a Time Manipulation/Radiation Blast Defender.  I like to point out to teammates that the little blue shield beside my name is to indicate that I'm there to be a tank.  Having a melee based debuff aura toggle that floors enemy accuracy, an erectable bubble that ensures all those highly inaccurate, reduced-damage attacks come exceedingly slowly, and up to three PBAoE attacks depending on level, mean I'm pretty good at gathering up a big old gaggle of enemies around me and holding their impotent attention.  Doesn't do so well against hard targets (I've debated dropping a concept power or two for a taunt, though), and if I'm not at Incarnate level, I can be taken out by the very, very rare mezzes that actually get through, but other than, I definitely feel more like a Tanker than a Defender.

[Lazarillo]

1 minute ago, PaxArcana said:

By design, Masterminds were never meant to be tankers.  Bodyguard was not part of the Archetype when CoV launched - it took a couple Issues before that happened.  (The Bad Old Days when an ambush mean you WERE going to be waking up in the hospital when playing an MM...)

Well, yes and no.  They weren't meant to be so, but their pets were.

It didn't work that way, which is why Bodyguard came in, but that was the idea.

[biostem]

1 hour ago, PaxArcana said:

By design, Masterminds were never meant to be tankers.  Bodyguard was not part of the Archetype when CoV launched - it took a couple Issues before that happened.  (The Bad Old Days when an ambush mean you WERE going to be waking up in the hospital when playing an MM...)

Even without bodyguard, a MM could easily send in 1 or more pets to absorb the alpha strike, and while those pets would probably die, they are easily replaced.  With proper slotting on certain secondaries, even before IOs were introduced, you could withstand a pummeling for at least a little while, too.  Yes, bodyguard mode absolutely helps, but it's not necessary in all circumstances...

[Lost Ninja]

I always felt that, at least when first introduced, stalkers were more of a Blaster/Blapper than scrapper. Brutes are scrappers in scrapper-lock with slightly higher survivability and lower damage. And though I played a MM from CoV launch I never felt it was a great tank.

[Carnifax]

5 hours ago, biostem said:

Even without bodyguard, a MM could easily send in 1 or more pets to absorb the alpha strike, and while those pets would probably die, they are easily replaced

That was always my take on MMs. My pet is there to absorb the alpha, the Brute or Domi would then mitigate the follow up attacks. Mind you I played a Necro/Dark MM with a zombie bound to shift & click move because I was quite happy for him to die so I could Fearsome Stare everything and then raise a Spirit.

 

Plus blueside I played an illusion/stormie so I quite liked the chaos of not having a single designated Tank.

 

As for playing against type ive a fond memory of being a Kin/Elec defender on a Hollows team. One person was like "Why is the defender jumping in". I responded "Im a sapper", they went "ive no idea what that means" and a Scrapper said "That means hes my pitfight buddy".

My Fire/Rad controller played the same way. Into melee ASAP for choking cloud, Hotfeet, Air Sup and the Earth Epic attacks (back when they did Containment). 

[MetaVileTerror]

Tanking as a /Traps Mastermind is also great fun, especially after getting Poison Trap.  There's this moment when jumping in to a mob at high velocity, but you haven't attacked anything yet, and you can squeeze an Acid Mortar out, letting it take some of the initial brunt of the attack, and then the Force Field Generator catches up while planting the Poison Trap, and finally those damnable slowpoke Henchminions get in to the mix.
I've had teammates confused as to how a squishy Mastermind can pull this off, but it's my basic modus operandi as a /Traps.

[Lost Ninja]

19 hours ago, MetaVileTerror said:

Tanking as a /Traps Mastermind is also great fun, especially after getting Poison Trap.  There's this moment when jumping in to a mob at high velocity, but you haven't attacked anything yet, and you can squeeze an Acid Mortar out, letting it take some of the initial brunt of the attack, and then the Force Field Generator catches up while planting the Poison Trap, and finally those damnable slowpoke Henchminions get in to the mix.
I've had teammates confused as to how a squishy Mastermind can pull this off, but it's my basic modus operandi as a /Traps.

Shadowfall, Darkest Night and Tar Patch... who needs defence if the mobs cannot see or hit you... 😄

 

Still wasn't a tank (this was before bodyguard mode was added, I'd hit 50 and got bored of the character by then).

[AkuTenshiiZero]

Elec/Storm Corruptor back on live.

 

Two words: Hurricane tanking.

[Shred Monkey]

On live I had a Traps/DP Defender...   With full stealth, I would absorb the alpha with seeker drones, jump in lay down a few traps, then Soul Drain/Hail of bullets... With my lowish damage output, but extremely aggressive play style by running ahead and hitting everything in a fresh spawn with my opening salvo, I basically filled the role of the team's tank.  It was a really fun toon to play.  

[Justice Blues]

On 9/25/2019 at 12:03 PM, AkuTenshiiZero said:

Elec/Storm Corruptor back on live.

 

Two words: Hurricane tanking.

That works with a Storm/Elec Defender too. Herd them into the corner with the Hurricane while keeping them too debuffed to hit, suck out their End with lightning, and wear down their HP. Couldn't do as much damage as a Corruptor, but she would get there eventually.

[Heraclea]

My kinetic/radiation scrapper got the Medic badge tonight. 

 

I finally have a healer I can bring when somebody wants one.

[Bopper]

My Time/DP/Soul defender has always played like a tank. Softcapped defenses combined with a toggle aura that does -toHit and -speed makes for fun times in a mob. I'm loaded up with Procs that allows me to watch the enemies melt in my Bullet Rain, Distortion Field, Slowed Response, Soul Drain and Hail of Bullets. It makes for a fun time when I invite lowbies looking to farm. Come along kids, follow the defender into battle.

[ZeeHero]

On 9/23/2019 at 10:35 PM, PaxArcana said:

Also, Brutes are sort of anti-Tankers, and Dominators are kind of anti-Controllers.  Not exactly, but they were each designed to somewhat turn their Heroic parallels on their heads.

Brutes are currently BETTER tankers. (in endgame) they will be just DAMAGE focused tankers once the tanker buffs happen though.

[PaxArcana]

1 hour ago, ZeeHero said:

Brutes are currently BETTER tankers. (in endgame) they will be just DAMAGE focused tankers once the tanker buffs happen though.

I did say "sort of" and "kind of".

 

I know they can tank (so can Masterminds, some Scrappers, and even a few Defenders with very skilled players) ... but Brutes are almost the literal, exact opposite of Tankers in how they are constructed.

[XaoGarrent]

Elec/Shield Stalkers are the defacto example of this, being, in effect, all melee Blasters.