Dimension Shifting

[Display Name]

Hi!  I was in a group the other day with a fellow controller who also had Gravity Control and Dimension Shift.

 

Does it stack?  Are there any interesting strategies that two people with Dimension Shift can use to torment their teamma...  Whoops!  I meant "defeat their enemies!"

 

Heh...  Seriously, I hardly ever use it.  Most groups I team with (virtually at any level) have the enemies locked down instantaneously when the battle starts.  Usually with stalagmites and rumbling sound effects.  I've used it before out of curiosity, but it was usually ignored by our enemies.  So I really don't even know which enemies it's suitable for.

 

I use the proc-monster build (thanks, Sir Myshkin!) for Gravity Control/Time Manipulation/Primal Forces Mastery, so my Dimension Shift is 5-slotted with Superior Will of the Controller:

 

Here:

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/7893-proc-monsters-controller-edition/#comments

 

...and here:

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Natural Controller
Primary Power Set: Gravity Control
Secondary Power Set: Time Manipulation
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Primal Forces Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Lift -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), Dcm-Build%(34), GldJvl-Dam%(36), ExpStr-Dam%(37), FrcFdb-Rechg%(37)
Level 1: Time Crawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 2: Temporal Mending -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(3), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(3), Prv-Heal/Rchg(5), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(5), Prv-Absorb%(7)
Level 4: Gravity Distortion -- Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), GldJvl-Dam%(7), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(13), GldNet-Dam%(15), UnbCns-Dam%(15), ImpSwf-Dam%(21)
Level 6: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def(37), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(40), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(40)
Level 8: Crush -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), GldJvl-Dam%(9), Apc-Dam%(11), TraoftheH-Dam%(11), ImpSwf-Dam%(13)
Level 10: Temporal Selection -- DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(A)
Level 12: Crushing Field -- SprOvrPrs-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(A), Rgn-Knock%(46), SprOvrPrs-Rchg/Energy Font(46), PstBls-Dam%(48), TraoftheH-Dam%(48), ImpSwf-Dam%(48)
Level 14: Dimension Shift -- SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SprWiloft-EndRdx/Rchg(31), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(40), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(42), SprWiloft-Rchg/Dmg%(42)
Level 16: Distortion Field -- SprEnt-End/Rchg(A), NrnSht-Dam%(17), GldNet-Dam%(17), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(19), ImpSwf-Dam%(19), SprEnt-Rchg/AbsorbProc(21)
Level 18: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(42), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(43), LucoftheG-Def(43)
Level 20: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 22: Tough -- GldArm-ResDam(A), GldArm-End/Res(23), GldArm-3defTpProc(23)
Level 24: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(25), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(25), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(27)
Level 26: Wormhole -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A), SuddAcc--KB/+KD(50), AbsAmz-Acc/Rchg(50)
Level 28: Farsight -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(29), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(29), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 32: Singularity -- ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(33), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(33), SlbAll-Build%(34), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(34)
Level 35: Slowed Response -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A), AnlWkn-Acc/Rchg/EndRdx(36), ShlBrk-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 38: Chrono Shift -- EffAdp-EndMod/Rchg(A), DctWnd-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(39), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(39), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 44: Temp Invulnerability -- HO:Ribo(A), HO:Ribo(45), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(45), UnbGrd-Max HP%(45)
Level 47: Power Boost -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(27), Mrc-Rcvry+(46)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(50)
Level 50: Intuition Radial Paragon 
------------

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Edited November 26, 2019 by Display Name

[mbre2006]

How would it stack?

[Display Name]

I owuldn't know.  It just seems that most of the times I try to use it, the enemy ignores it.

 

...and I was hoping you would say "Oh yeah!  Just keep hitting them with it from multiple Controllers and it will Immobilize for sure!"

[Zep]

I'd be interested to learn more about how to use this power from those who have.

 

Is it possible for two Gravity guys/gals to fling groups back and forth -- juggle even?

 

I need to level a guy up I havnt had any gravity characters high enough since live.

[oedipus_tex]

Dimension Shift works the same way Holds do. You are either Shifted or you are Not, kind of like you are Held or you are Not. Layering Dimension Shift doesn't change this. The game doesn't care where the source of the Dimension Shift came from (like, each player doesn't have his or her own "pocket space.") Also, two Dimension Shifts don't counter each other, they just stack the effect.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2019 by oedipus_tex

[Dark Current]

One dimension shift is bad enough on a team. Two would be worse. Far, far worse.

 

Seriously, any other power in gravity is better. The only power worse (or even) is Black Hole.

 

If you need an 'oh sh--' power to get out of trouble take phase shift from concealment or just teleport.

 

The power is too confusing for a team of randoms. I've never seen it used wisely or in a situation where just dying wouldn't have been a better option.

[Call Me Awesome]

1 hour ago, Dark Current said:

One dimension shift is bad enough on a team. Two would be worse. Far, far worse.

 

Seriously, any other power in gravity is better. The only power worse (or even) is Black Hole.

 

If you need an 'oh sh--' power to get out of trouble take phase shift from concealment or just teleport.

 

The power is too confusing for a team of randoms. I've never seen it used wisely or in a situation where just dying wouldn't have been a better option.

Strongly seconded.  This will drastically reduce the kill speed of teams and make your teammates hate you.

 

I had a team last week with a character who loved spamming the damn thing every time it came up... I'd grab the aggro and then the idiot hits Dshit and they're all gone so my AOE's hit nothing, the two blaster's AOE's hit nothing.  The only thing worse is a Storm who insists on standing next to the tank with Hurricane running.

 

It's extremely situational in it's usefulness, so much so that a useful situation may only happen once in the character's entire existence.  Take anything else instead.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Call Me Awesome

[oedipus_tex]

I've wanted to test Dimension Shift to see if it can get you around Carnival Illusionists and their Phase ability. Even if it works though it's probably not super useful due to D Shift's 20 second up time.

 

Oh I suppose there is also the edge case of being able to D Shift around a glowie and grab it. But it's super rare that you'd need to do it and the power would drag aggro to you when it dropped.

 

Has anyone played around with how it works with Storm's psuedo pets?

Edited December 3, 2019 by oedipus_tex

[Display Name]

On 11/28/2019 at 11:49 PM, oedipus_tex said:

Also, two Dimension Shifts don't counter each other, they just stack the effect.

 

 

 

 

This is the answer I started the thread for.  So they DO stack which means that multiple Dimension Shifts CAN Immobilize with stacking.

[Erydanus]

6 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

Oh I suppose there is also the edge case of being able to D Shift around a glowie and grab it. 

How would that work? Unlike Black Hole, players who enter the zone of effect are shifted so even if a purple boss was camping a glowy when you walked up to click it you'd be moved in sync with it so you could brawl it...

 

 

I got surrounded by mobs on a TF while on a squishy character and someone helpfully cast Dimension Shift on them which did exactly squat since I was already pinned down right there - oh except it made it so the ranged damage other team members were throwing at those mobs got cut off from affecting the mobs on me.  If it had been Black Hole I would actually have been protected from the mobs and once I popped a breakfree could have escaped. What would have been better? WORMHOLE THEM OFF ME. 

 

Dimension Shift is really only a panic button for a spawn you haven't engaged with and it has a strict 20 second activation limit. If melee types - say a tank - want to run into the effect and grab control in that time it's possible. But it's just too narrow - don't use this power except in extreme emergencies. You'd be better off taking something else.

 

 

[Coyote]

"For 10 million I WON'T use Dimension Shift every time it's recharged"

😝

[Call Me Awesome]

7 hours ago, Coyote said:

"For 10 million I WON'T use Dimension Shift every time it's recharged"

😝

/kick from team.  Unfortunately I didn't have the star last week.

[Hedgefund]

20 hours ago, Dark Current said:

One dimension shift is bad enough on a team. Two would be worse. Far, far worse.

 

Seriously, any other power in gravity is better. The only power worse (or even) is Black Hole.

 

If you need an 'oh sh--' power to get out of trouble take phase shift from concealment or just teleport.

 

The power is too confusing for a team of randoms. I've never seen it used wisely or in a situation where just dying wouldn't have been a better option.

The bolded is the most damning statement about a power I think I've seen.  

 

Way back in the before time I had a Grav/FF.  I like to experiment with out of favor powers and powersets and I thought I'd see if I could do something interesting with Dim Shift and FF's cage.  I could not.

[Sir Myshkin]

Dimension Shift gets a bit too much flack for what it can do. Yes it can be used in a detrimental way, but it can also be used in a way that puts the Controller on the offense. It can take a couple of procs and can dish out its own damage, and has no capacity cap so long as the mobs can fit within its radius. From a solo standpoint it’s a super useful tool, especially when paired with Storm as you can summon LR and Tornado inside the shift and there’s absolutely nothing the mobs inside can do about it. You can also Wormhole into the Shift if necessary and instantly negate ~30 mobs from combat. If a team is staying clustered and you do use it loaded with procs, it’s be possible to fire off the shift and the team never even realize. It just becomes another isolated immob to contain spawns.

[Dark Current]

Please stop with the imaginary situations for when / how dim shift is useful.

 

Here's what actually happens on a team with a grav using dimension shift:

1. Brute / Tanker type engages in melee drawing aggro.
2. Ranged attackers and controllers launch powers at clustered mob.
3. Ranged attackers and controllers scream WTF because none of their powers land because the one knuckle head grav tossed Dim Shift on the melee.
4. Brute / Tanker get pwnd because they're now soloing a bunch of mobs without back up.
5. Ranged buffers and debuffers fire last desperate powers to save brute/ tanker.
6. Ranged buffers and debuffers scream WTF because none of their powers land to save the brute/tanker because knuckle head grav's Dim Shift is still lingering on the melee.
7. Team manages to escape / overcome after dim shift finally dissipates.
8. Team is wondering wtf just happened. The missions were going so smoothly before the grav dim shifter showed up. Team thinks it was just a fluke and the guy mis-clicked his power.
9. Team realizes in horror that no, this grav actually thinks dim shift is a useable power and keeps tossing it every encounter the rest of the mission.
10. Team ends up breaking up because now everything is taking 3x as long to defeat and half the team's powers keep getting wasted.

 

 

[Call Me Awesome]

24 minutes ago, Dark Current said:

Please stop with the imaginary situations for when / how dim shift is useful.

 

Here's what actually happens on a team with a grav using dimension shift:

1. Brute / Tanker type engages in melee drawing aggro.
2. Ranged attackers and controllers launch powers at clustered mob.
3. Ranged attackers and controllers scream WTF because none of their powers land because the one knuckle head grav tossed Dim Shift on the melee.
4. Brute / Tanker get pwnd because they're now soloing a bunch of mobs without back up.
5. Ranged buffers and debuffers fire last desperate powers to save brute/ tanker.
6. Ranged buffers and debuffers scream WTF because none of their powers land to save the brute/tanker because knuckle head grav's Dim Shift is still lingering on the melee.
7. Team manages to escape / overcome after dim shift finally dissipates.
8. Team is wondering wtf just happened. The missions were going so smoothly before the grav dim shifter showed up. Team thinks it was just a fluke and the guy mis-clicked his power.
9. Team realizes in horror that no, this grav actually thinks dim shift is a useable power and keeps tossing it every encounter the rest of the mission.
10. Team ends up breaking up because now everything is taking 3x as long to defeat and half the team's powers keep getting wasted.

 

 

Absolutely and utterly agree.  Any powers that phase shift enemies need to die and players who insist on using them need to be kicked from the team.  I also have similar thoughts on Wormhole, I've had chuckleheads who, once I have a group nice and tight, decide to wormhole them all to the other side of the room.  Please, if you're going to use Wormhole PLEASE take the mobs TO the tanker, don't yank them AWAY from him.

[Coyote]

Ugh. Dimension Shift is a useful power for many soloing Grav Controllers. Maybe Dominators also.

It's a terrible power on a pickup team.

That doesn't mean that it needs to die, or that it's never useful. It just means that it is quite useful, for specific builds. Not coincidentally, I get the idea that Sir M is using it with a /Storm secondary, and I use it with a /Traps secondary... exactly the two builds where I'd say it's the most useful since the secondaries are so location-dependent.

I can also see it as being very useful on a melee-oriented Dominator, keeping ranged fire away while the Dom clears the melee opponents. Less than 9 Endurance to prevent all ranged shots from landing is a HUGE benefit for mid teens to mid 30s, maybe even into the 40s.

 

Too much hyperbole about how terrible it is, without clarifying that it is terrible... on pickup teams. Where I agree, it's horrible. But I can tell you, the Praetoria, First Ward, and Night Ward content is a lot more easily soloed with it, since there are some enemy groups that are just annoying with nasty ranged damage... if you can block off part of that while clearing half the spawn, at a level where you don't yet have full defenses, and using a one-slot power, then that power isn't all that bad.

[Erratic1]

I was on a pickup Penolope Yin TF and roundly thanked for my use of DS when the team, already overwhelmed, faced the door onslaught. It's a tool to be used, though it can certainly be used poorly.

 

Of course I was once on a pickup where the nitwit with DS used it on every pull. As I was on a ranged character I bit my tongue and quit asap.

[Redlynne]

3 hours ago, Coyote said:

Too much hyperbole about how terrible it is, without clarifying that it is terrible... on pickup teams.

Clever use of Dimension Shift in a team context requires the one thing that is in terminally short supply on pickup teams ... TEAMWORK ... and coordination.

 

However, with teamwork and coordination it can be used effectively.

Guess how much "work" that takes ... compared to playing brain dead like a fire farmer.

[Coyote]

Right. With teamwork and coordination, it can be useful on a team. But on most pickup teams, players just want to zerg ... the higher the level, the more comfortable they feel just zerging since they can handle the max difficulty even with minor coordination.

At lower levels, coordination is more necessary, and the power is more useful.

On friend teams or SG teams, coordination is more common.

Soloing, coordination is inherent.

I would say that easily 90% of the pickup teams I've met don't coordinate anything. You're more likely to fall into a pickup RPing team than into a coordinated team, LOL.

[SaddestGhost]

3 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

I was on a pickup Penolope Yin TF and roundly thanked for my use of DS when the team, already overwhelmed, faced the door onslaught. It's a tool to be used, though it can certainly be used poorly.

 

Of course I was once on a pickup where the nitwit with DS used it on every pull. As I was on a ranged character I bit my tongue and quit asap.

This is probably where I have seen the best use of Dimension Shift as well.  When you know adds are coming, drop it where they will be appearing and you can buy the team a little  time to deal with the current mons.  The vahz ambush in Posi part 2 is also a good opportunity to use it if the team is about to be overwhelmed.

[Sir Myshkin]

3 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

I was on a pickup Penolope Yin TF and roundly thanked for my use of DS when the team, already overwhelmed, faced the door onslaught. It's a tool to be used, though it can certainly be used poorly.

This makes me think of things like Force Bubble with the Terra Volta trial. There are quite a few cases in the game where an isolation tool is actually pretty beneficial. Force Bubble became such an overpowered tool in TV that when folks figured out how to teleport under the reactor and avoid line of sight for attacks, they could indefinitely keep Freakshow off the reactor without penalty, and that prompted the GM's/Devs to get involved and monitor the trials and kick/prevent players from "cheating" through it.

 

Not sure if it would appropriately cover the entire thing, but Shifting the reactor could potentially isolate it from everything but immediate Melee and shut down a lot of Ranged hits. Interesting consideration. There's also the usual tactic of fleeing into the outer room in an overrun event, Shift would easily shut off that route from enemy follow-through for a short period of time but still allow players in/out.

 

Just interesting things it can be used for.

[Redlynne]

And that's not even considering using it on Pylons (or Lord Recluse himself!) in the (no longer) Statesman Task Force that takes you into Grandville at the end.

[Lockpick]

13 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

I was on a pickup Penolope Yin TF and roundly thanked for my use of DS when the team, already overwhelmed, faced the door onslaught. It's a tool to be used, though it can certainly be used poorly.

 

Of course I was once on a pickup where the nitwit with DS used it on every pull. As I was on a ranged character I bit my tongue and quit asap.

It might have been better to explain to the player the challenge with DS.  I have a low level Gravity Controller that I was doing a Posi on and I had never used DS before.  I decided to use it on a spawn to very poor effect.  I didn't use it again, but some players may not know how the power should be used properly.

[Erratic1]

On 12/7/2019 at 8:05 AM, Lockpick said:

It might have been better to explain to the player the challenge with DS.  I have a low level Gravity Controller that I was doing a Posi on and I had never used DS before.  I decided to use it on a spawn to very poor effect.  I didn't use it again, but some players may not know how the power should be used properly.

 The response to my hinting that it was a problem was saying, "You just have to enter the zone."  Why a low hp character without status protection would want to is beyond me and should have been seen as an obvious non-starter.