AT's on TF's

[Fr3akster]

I know this is a broad question, but what is the best archetype for task forces? Something that is widely sought after or needed?

[Ulysses Dare]

Over half the TF's I see starting up don't usually request any specific archetypes. Of those that do, Defenders and Tanks are the two I most often see requested.

Edited December 2, 2019 by Ulysses Dare

[Chirikiti]

From my experience there is no best AT for TFs. Nothing is needed. I have yet to be asked my AT or powers when joining a TF and never encountered a 'we need this AT now' when in one.

Even just the LFG or various channels. Virtually all calls are LFM. Not looking for Tank, or Dom or Corr or whatever. 

 

Everyone just plays what they have fun playing and we do the TF. About the only time any specific AT is talked about is a Cuda and maybe a Miss Liberty. Other than that you can win any TF with any group of ATs from my experience.

Virtually nobody asks for specific ATs for TFs. Occasionally you'll see in LFG wanted CC or Healer (more often) or need damage dealer. But that's about it. And even then I would argue they are possibly asking for something too narrow. Need a healer? Well that crowd controller may very well make healing unnecessary, or that aoe damage dealer specialist. 

 

Could be server culture I don't know, I'm on Torchbearer, but I occasionally pop over to Excelsior, seems the same.

 

Maybe a better question is what do people like to see on a team. I like /rads and  /kins can be fun. But nobody fusses with team composition except possibly people married to an outdated idea of trinities and whatnot. Play what you want and join what you want with it.

[Gulbasaur]

It's ridiculously flexible. You can almost always jump in with anything as long as there is a good mix. The game has a strong focus on buffs, debuffs and soft control, so DPS-tank-healer isn't really needed, although it is definitely viable. 

 

That said high DPS and high support task forces are both pretty powerful. Some of the best runs I've had have been tankless ones with a gaggle of controllers, dominators, defenders and corrutpors - they liquefy anything that stands in their way. Lots of the "squishy" archetypes can more than hold their own - several controller builds can tank better than a few tankers I've met in the game, before IOs and other boosts and radiation defenders have been soloing AVs since before City of Villains even existed. It's a very flexible system. 

 

Play what you think is fun. There will be a place for you. 

Edited December 2, 2019 by Gulbasaur

[siolfir]

Determine "the best" is subjective. Some will say that buffs aren't needed (because IOs), some will say debuffs aren't needed (because damage), some will say control is irrelevant (because AVs), and all three of those are desired and "best" for a team. Some will say healing is useless because it's reactionary - and then your softcapped character gets hit for 1800 damage through that minimum chance to hit, and being able to top off really quickly is a nice thing. So take anything someone says about "best" for task forces with a grain of salt.

 

Brutes and Tankers are almost always welcome because they gather enemies together and keep things from attacking the squishies.

Defenders, Corruptors, and Controllers are almost always welcome by anyone who realizes how game-breaking stacking buffs and debuffs are. 

 

On the flip side, Masterminds are generally less well-liked, despite being a great AT, because of screen clutter and often-stupid pet AI. I've also seen Kheld hate due to quantum/void/cyst spawning and knockback, but they can fill most roles on a team.

 

Long story short, play what you enjoy playing and don't actively hinder the team and you'll be fine no matter what. If you want to team with people who are specifically looking for something, roll a Brute, Tanker, Defender, or Corruptor. And then look at the speed TFs thread and see how many were done by Scrappers and Blasters.

Edited December 2, 2019 by siolfir

[oxmox]

As stated above with the possible exception of barracuda where AT determines what temp power you get at the end, it doesn't matter.

 

TFs are typically 8 man teams with multiple exemp'd incarnates running at +0/x1, so they are extremely easy. If I had to pick I'd say a kind/Sonic def. Speed boost and fulcrum shift to roll missions faster and -res debuffs for the AV. And it's even one of the ATs that gets the best temp power in Barracuda SF!

[Broken_Prey]

As others have said there is no best AT for tfs. Now I have seen people looking for a healer, sigh, or a tank. 

 

I say play what you like because you will enjoy the game more. 

[Fr3akster]

Thanks for the responses! 

[Chirikiti]

Gulbasaur makes an excellent point.

 

"Some of the best runs I've had have been tankless ones with a gaggle of controllers, dominators, defenders and corrutpors - they liquefy anything that stands in their way. Lots of the "squishy" archetypes can more than hold their own - several controller builds can tank better than a few tankers I've met in the game, before IOs and other boosts and radiation defenders have been soloing AVs since before City of Villains even existed. It's a very flexible system."

 

Totally true.

[Rathulfr]

Half the fun of puggin' is finding out how well a team does with a random collection of ATs.  I've been on teams that absolutely ROFLstomp with nothing but "squishies" (who just happen to control or debuff the heck outta everything we encounter), and I've been on teams that repeatedly wipe with the perfect balance of "the holy trinity" (tank, heals, DPS).  Most of the time, it's something in between, and always... interesting... to say the least.

[Machariel]

It really depends how you're playing the TF, and are people running it for merits (speed!) or xp/inf. 

Efficiently completing a task force requires some mix of the following and there's many, many ways to get these.

 

step 1: get to the objective

Stealth & Travel Powers - including teleportation.  Task Forces can be quite long and in some of them, just getting around the map can take quite a long time by itself, on the order of the time spent actually inside the missions.  Pretty much any AT can (and does) do this with IOs (super speed + Stealth IO in sprint) and temporary/pool/incarnate powers (Assemble the Team / Mission Transporter, Recall Friend, Incandescence Destiny, respectively.  However, at lower levels and with more casual playgroups you'll normally look towards the "stealth" ATs for this (Stalker, VEATs, Warshades)

 

step 2: clear the trash

Most task forces heavily reward AoE damage as they will usually be played on x8 and heavily feature defeat alls, so even if speedrunning some amount of AoE is useful.  The higher the difficulty and the closer the group tilts to "kill-all" vs. "speedrun", the more useful AoE damage will be to your task force.  In my opinion, the closer you get to level 50 the more you can take "having enough AoE" for granted.  Of course, there are many, many, many ways to build a character for strong AoE damage, and once you hit incarnate territory everyone gets judgement anyway.  Usually burst damage is more useful than sustained damage for AoE since there aren't many times in task forces where you have to deal with an unending stream of enemies. 

 

step 3: defeat hard targets

Of course, almost all task forces feature multiple fights against single hard targets, usually taken one at a time.  This is generally the AV at the end but this can apply to EBs and bosses in regular mobs depending on team makeup.  (Even when a very high powered team gathers entire rooms in the ITF together and blows its collective AoE wad, there's still a bunch of half-HP bosses grouped up).   This, of course, is where single target damage and debuffs (especially -regen for AVs and -res) come into play.  The team will also need some way of managing the hard target in question, which might be tanking it conventionally, neutering it with debuffs, or simply by having a very survivable team (IOs, shared defense buffs, stacking holds through purple triangles, whatever).  As with step 1 and step 2, there are many many ways to be able to do this.

 

Any AT than can contribute to these goals in a way that lines up with the way the leader wants to run the task force (nothing complex, just simply "kill most" or "speed") will be valuable and as other people have said pretty much anything is welcome.

 

There are a handful of TFs that do require specific utilities though.  For example, the Lady Grey TF requires a mix of ranged damage, melee damage, and control to handle the mini-Hamidon.  Now, this isn't to say that you NEED a controller/dominator on the team - perhaps all the melee ATs took a single target hold in their ancillary powers - but this is an example of the (relatively rare) case where a specific type of AT is helpful 🙂

[Call Me Awesome]

As has been said most TF leaders aren't looking for anything specific and take whatever shows up; most players here are long time vets and there's FAR more good players here than I ever remember seeing on Live.  A bad player on a team is a rarity now instead of a common occurrence.

 

Now useful characters?  Well aggro control is useful which is classically the Tanker's role although it can get fuzzy as most AT's are capable of handling aggro if built well and in skilled hands.  Damage is always required, which Blasters bring a lot of to the table but everyone deals damage to some extent.

 

If you want to know what the fastest team for completing a TF?  8 Fire/Rad Controllers.  I really don't know of anything that can match that kill speed.

 

 

[Gulbasaur]

Kind of to add on...

 

After learning the hard way in GW2 and WoW, I actually quite often tend to say what kind of playthrough I'm looking for: "chilled out", "speedy", "newbies welcome" etc. If you haven't done it before, say so. If you are going for a badge, say so. Communicate.  

 

I play the game for the game, not the rewards, so I'm usually happy to take my time and look for players who are happy with that. When you get that one stalker who runs towards the mission objectives in stealth without saying a word in chat and the rest of you are having fun ploughing through goons, it can get a bit jarring.

 

ITF is pretty bad for this as you do get people who literally start running to the objectives as soon as the mission opens, ATT in hand, which is antisocial if others are there because they want to get to 50 so need to do the combat parts. "Stealth or stomp?" in team chat is usually enough to get a consensus. 

 

So yeah - advertise for the player, not the role. You're much more likely to get a team that you enjoy if you're upfront about how you want to run it. 

[Shred Monkey]

Going a different direction then others who answered this question...  yeah, AT doesn't matter.  Nothing is needed and anything works.  BUT...

• It's nice to have at least one really good AoE damage dealer to clean up spawns. 
• It's nice to have someone with HUGE single target dps to put down Bosses as fast as the Minions and LTs are falling.  Also shorten AV fights.
• It's nice to have someone who can run in and absorb alpha strikes and generally leads the team through the map.  Often this role holds agro on AVs as well.
• It's nice to have someone to stealth/port. 
• It is nice to have someone to heal and rez for those times when things get crazy or you're facing some auto-hit damage or high-tohit enemies.
• It is nice to have someone who knows the TF really well and can identify what objectives are needed and knows how to short-cut missions and answer questions.
• It is nice to have a few someones who chat up the team and generally have a good sense of humor or amusing RP personality. 

If you want to be a good task force runner/team player, try to fill as many of the above roles as you can.

 

[SeraphimKensai]

The only time I worry about team composition is if I'm doing a master of task force where it's a pug. If it's all guild, I'm down with whatever they want to bring as I can typically rest assured that they know their toons, have them well built, and know the content.

 

I do like running pugs though as you get to meet a bunch of people and find players that you want to team with more, or in a few cases even act as a mentor or coach to help them learn their powersets or the content better, as we do have an influx of new players that haven't been around since the level cap was 40. That said though occasionally you run into some of the old guard that has going on a decade of rust that missed out on when some of the current content came out originally.

 

I occasionally like to host a TF group on my personal discord as well, and usually by the 2nd mission the ice has melted and everyone is having a good time.

 

I find on a TF that it's rare to encounter someone that's really toxic, most the population is reasonably level headed.

 

Going back to the distinction between task forces and master of task forces, I've always been a bit of a "min maxer", so on regular TF's I think speed is imperative, whereas on the master of runs, it's more about teamwork and overcoming the challenge.

[Shred Monkey]

18 minutes ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Going back to the distinction between task forces and master of task forces, I've always been a bit of a "min maxer", so on regular TF's I think speed is imperative, whereas on the master of runs, it's more about teamwork and overcoming the challenge.

And in a game where "winning" is pretty much guaranteed, the next best measure of achievement is speed.  Even in a kill most TF, I am still going to try to kill most as fast as I can.

[Rapunzel]

I run about a TF a day (or more) with a mix of old friends and new. I mostly play squishies/support, so I'm always happy when a tank shows up (or a team built brute who can and will taunt wanderers off of me.) I like balanced teams - so someone to stand in front and start the fights, some solid sources of buffs/debuffs/damage. As long as a team has at least one of those, it'll do okay. Mostly, I like people who have built for team support more than people who have built for themselves alone. Teams where the leadership toggles start up and start taking up a whole row let me know that we're going to roll whatever it is. I get a little leery of the ATs that tend to attract more "I don't need any of you" types - scrappers, MMs, some brutes? Because they have a tendency to zip off and get dead somewhere else, then attract some poor support squishy trying to save them who will also get dead.

 

I have done all of the tauntless PUG ITFs I plan to do ever. Rommy runs too much. Other than that and things where ATs affect outcomes (LGTF needs some source of ranged/control/melee for the mini Hami, Cuda as described above) I'll try almost anything with almost any team that is game for the experience. A team of all controllers can roll content as well as a balanced team - but the experience is going to be different. People who want to speed run and people who want to kill most are going to have a tough time on the same team. I'll usually be happy either way, though I tend toward kill most, but I don't like being on a team where people are crabby with each other.

 

Recruit the player, not the AT is a big thing. Communicate about what you want and how you intend to get there, find like minded folks and go get it. This game is not a delicate ballet of ATs, its a fun romp with lots of available options to enjoy. Play characters that fit with your personal style and that you enjoy.

 

 

[DougGraves]

The best AT for any team of 8 is a defender.  Probably followed by a corruptor.  Buffing a team of 8 is a huge boost.  A team of 8 defenders is ridiculous.

 

If a TF has an AV in it you want a defender who can do significant -regen.  Dark/ and Rad/ are good, but so are others.

 

You do not need a defender, but no team is sad to add one.

[Corruption]

Every TF can use more Corruptors, can never have too many. 

[Abraxus]

I actually like playing on TFs that are comprised of ATs that are not necessarily balanced, or overpowered.  I prefer being at something of a disadvantage, and having to overcome that disadvantage with strategy, or folks that know their capabilities, and using them to make up for it.  That typically ends up resulting in more deaths than some folks feel comfortable with.  But, I feel like if it's too easy, and nobody ever dies, it's not as challenging, and therefore not as fun for me.

 

However, the bottom line is to play what you have fun with, and when you see a TF looking for members, shoot that requester a PM.  9 times out of 10, you will just get on the team.  In some rare instance, you might get a question about AT, and that might be a clue that they are looking for that perfect (and again, for me, less fun) team, and might turn you down.  But, another TF will form soon after, and hopefully that one won't be so discerning. 🙂

Edited December 3, 2019 by Abraxus

[Lines]

I was on a Cathedral of Pain run the other day (some if you Ronions might have been there) where we simply couldn't take down the Aspect of Rularuu, despite three full teams. We were fairly well coordinated and we had good leadership.

 

Even post-mortem, we couldn't figure out why the run wasn't working. We do it often with barely a thought. The team looked good on paper. Either our dps was somehow low or we weren't packing enough -regen. 

 

It was the only time so far on HC where ignoring the team build possibly* led to not being able to finish the trial.

 

*if anyone has any other theories why Rularuu might have out regen'd our dps, I'd like to know. It's still a mystery to me.

[Broken_Prey]

2 hours ago, DougGraves said:

The best AT for any team of 8 is a defender.  Probably followed by a corruptor.  Buffing a team of 8 is a huge boost.  A team of 8 defenders is ridiculous.

 

If a TF has an AV in it you want a defender who can do significant -regen.  Dark/ and Rad/ are good, but so are others.

 

You do not need a defender, but no team is sad to add one.

Back on live my brother and I ran up a duo of defenders to 50 thought the tfs. He was rad/rad and I was dark/ice. We steamed rolled all the tfs, posi was the worst one but that was before the change to it. 

 

I would start and lead the tfs and more than once when people join they were happy to see two defenders on the team. 

Edited December 3, 2019 by Broken_Prey

[Hedgefund]

19 minutes ago, Lines said:

I was on a Cathedral of Pain run the other day (some if you Ronions might have been there) where we simply couldn't take down the Aspect of Rularuu, despite three full teams. We were fairly well coordinated and we had good leadership.

 

Even post-mortem, we couldn't figure out why the run wasn't working. We do it often with barely a thought. The team looked good on paper. Either our dps was somehow low or we weren't packing enough -regen. 

 

It was the only time so far on HC where ignoring the team build possibly* led to not being able to finish the trial.

 

*if anyone has any other theories why Rularuu might have out regen'd our dps, I'd like to know. It's still a mystery to me.

What about the levels of your league mates?  This trial allows level 10s (https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Cathedral_of_Pain_Trial).  If 1/2 of your leaguemates were sub 50s, that's a recipe for trouble.  

 

A league full of 50+1s, effectively fighting +3s, fully armed with incarnate goodies (that can follow the most basic directions) - easy mode for this.

A league full of 49s, effectively fighting +5s, yuck.

[Heraclea]

I am always happy to take whoever is available.  All tanker, all blaster, all controller task force runs are all things I have participated in and are quite feasible, especially since the TFs that usually get run this way are the 35+ ones. 

 

There are some caveats to this.  The Kahn TF benefits strongly from having a full time debuffer.  You probably do want a tanker or a very tanky brute for Ms. Liberty and Lord Recluse.  On the other hand, all of the melee ATs will pretty much have to be carried by the rest of the team on the Apex TF. 

[Chirikiti]

I love Master-Of PUGs runs. They usually allow me to show off by carrying the team and ensuring a successful completion hehe {_____O_O____}  

 

TF intentions when advertising IS important. Honestly, at least on Torchbearer, they're pretty good about this (master of run, kill all, kill most, speed).

 

I still think people are self-limiting in what they think they need. For example, while this wasn't a TF, it illustrates:

 

   I was toodling around and in LFG there was a call by some for some melee damage, to tank and dps a mission EB I would guess. I was going to answer but I'm a dom and I didn't feel like explaining that I could solo what they needed completed if needed. I bet any number of different ATs could have. But there seems to be some percent of the player base who have a narrow or unexperienced view of what is possible in this era when everyone is uber as hell.

 

My generous side postulates it's previous experiences with other games/systems