AV/SOLO Killers

[Extor Prime]

6 hours ago, parabola said:

Are there any that can solo a GM with no temps/pets? Somehow using envenomed daggers feels ever so slightly like cheating.

Titan/Bio or Rad/Bio for sure. There may be a few others.

[Eva Destruction]

6 hours ago, Gulbasaur said:

For GMs, the biggest issue is their very high regen, which is why debuff sets tend to do very well against them (and so many people use envenomed daggers). If you don't have some form of -regen, you need very high DPS to compensate. 

 

I think the highest non-pet single target damage combo is street justice / bio on a stalker. Bio has -regen and a damage increase, so that makes sense. 

What kind of DPS would you need to put out to kill one without -regen?

[jshmoe1236123]

This may be the closest you can get for right now.  It's in the scrapper forum, but a lot of other ATs post in this thread to log their times on Pylons.  A lot of them post their builds, too.  Good place to peruse.

[Sir Myshkin]

3 hours ago, Eva Destruction said:

What kind of DPS would you need to put out to kill one without -regen?

I attempted to take down the Winter Lord when it spawned in PI one night before anyone noticed. TW/Regen, so purely on the merits of TW and T3 Incarnate abilities I could overcome his regen so long as Hybrid was up, but it doesn't buff much at T3, and the 2:00 up 2:00 down meant I had a poor window where the most I could really do was stabilize. Tried using Envenomed Daggers but it wasn't much (still a slog). Eventually I tossed T3 Lore at it (Knives) and we collectively chipped down. Really just needed a small nudge. Once I have T4 Hybrid and Musculature I'll likely hunt down another GM to try.

 

Short end: A Lot. 400+ Raw DPS if you can't debuff it down.

[Gulbasaur]

15 hours ago, Mitchman said:

What does everyone think about Fire/Bio or Rad/Bio scrapps?

They're both fine, although rad's Contaminated effect will probably give you less bang for your buck as it's designed for AoE damage. The -DEF is heavily resisted by AVs.

 

Bio is the important one as it has -regen and +DMG. The -regen means your enemy will heal slower giving you a quicker effective "arrest" time. As long as your endurance doesn't run out and you don't get knocked out, it's just a matter of chipping away at them. 

Edited December 20, 2019 by Gulbasaur

[Mitchman]

3 hours ago, Gulbasaur said:

They're both fine, although rad's Contaminated effect will probably give you less bang for your buck as it's designed for AoE damage. The -DEF is heavily resisted by AVs.

 

Bio is the important one as it has -regen and +DMG. The -regen means your enemy will heal slower giving you a quicker effective "arrest" time. As long as your endurance doesn't run out and you don't get knocked out, it's just a matter of chipping away at them. 

Thanks i appreciate the feedback. I am actually tossing the idea around of a War Mace/Bio scrapper. I have a TW/BIO scrapper fully slotted, i just do not like the sluggish playstyle. But, have fallen in love with BIO so this might be a quicker form of that almost. 

[siolfir]

3 hours ago, Gulbasaur said:

They're both fine, although rad's Contaminated effect will probably give you less bang for your buck as it's designed for AoE damage. The -DEF is heavily resisted by AVs.

 

Bio is the important one as it has -regen and +DMG. The -regen means your enemy will heal slower giving you a quicker effective "arrest" time. As long as your endurance doesn't run out and you don't get knocked out, it's just a matter of chipping away at them. 

The -regen is just as heavily resisted as the -defense (85% at level 50), has a base of -100%, is not enhanceable, and comes from the DNA Siphon for 30 seconds on a 90 second base recharge click heal; that's the same level of regen debuffing that TIme Manipulation has in Time Crawl (-15% regen against an even level AV at 50) without being perma out of the box. For comparison, an Envenomed Dagger is -250% regen, and the "strong" regen debuffs such as Benumb or Lingering Radiation are -500%. It's something but it's not the end-all-be-all of why Bio works against AVs. It's just an extra layer on top of everything else that Bio offers in Offensive Adaptation: the -resistance, while relatively small compared to other resistance debuffs, doesn't have any special AV debuff resistance and acts as an effective multiplier of your damage - which is already being increased two ways (+dam, extra hit).

[Shred Monkey]

15 hours ago, Eva Destruction said:

What kind of DPS would you need to put out to kill one without -regen?

Not all GMs are the same and since damage scales to the GM's level, it's actually hard to answer that question. 

 

The 2 hardest in terms of required DPS are Lusca's head (The tentacles are about like a medium difficulty AV but the head is much higher) and the Goliath War Walker in Boomtown.  Eochai and Babbage are pretty easy.   And Kraken is pretty weak.

 

Just to push the discussion forward, I'm going to estimate it would take somewhere above 325 DPS with no -regen to solo Babbage.

[Corruption]

2 hours ago, siolfir said:

The -regen is just as heavily resisted as the -defense (85% at level 50), has a base of -100%, is not enhanceable, and comes from the DNA Siphon for 30 seconds on a 90 second base recharge click heal; that's the same level of regen debuffing that TIme Manipulation has in Time Crawl (-15% regen against an even level AV at 50) without being perma out of the box. For comparison, an Envenomed Dagger is -250% regen, and the "strong" regen debuffs such as Benumb or Lingering Radiation are -500%. It's something but it's not the end-all-be-all of why Bio works against AVs. It's just an extra layer on top of everything else that Bio offers in Offensive Adaptation: the -resistance, while relatively small compared to other resistance debuffs, doesn't have any special AV debuff resistance and acts as an effective multiplier of your damage - which is already being increased two ways (+dam, extra hit).

Yeah, I wouldn't waste time using DNA Siphon for the - regen. 

[Eva Destruction]

16 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

I attempted to take down the Winter Lord when it spawned in PI one night before anyone noticed. TW/Regen, so purely on the merits of TW and T3 Incarnate abilities I could overcome his regen so long as Hybrid was up, but it doesn't buff much at T3, and the 2:00 up 2:00 down meant I had a poor window where the most I could really do was stabilize. Tried using Envenomed Daggers but it wasn't much (still a slog). Eventually I tossed T3 Lore at it (Knives) and we collectively chipped down. Really just needed a small nudge. Once I have T4 Hybrid and Musculature I'll likely hunt down another GM to try.

 

Short end: A Lot. 400+ Raw DPS if you can't debuff it down.

 

4 hours ago, Shred Monkey said:

Not all GMs are the same and since damage scales to the GM's level, it's actually hard to answer that question. 

 

The 2 hardest in terms of required DPS are Lusca's head (The tentacles are about like a medium difficulty AV but the head is much higher) and the Goliath War Walker in Boomtown.  Eochai and Babbage are pretty easy.   And Kraken is pretty weak.

 

Just to push the discussion forward, I'm going to estimate it would take somewhere above 325 DPS with no -regen to solo Babbage.

And the Scrapper forum regulars come through once again.  Thanks!

[Coyote]

On 12/19/2019 at 9:52 AM, parabola said:

Are there any that can solo a GM with no temps/pets? Somehow using envenomed daggers feels ever so slightly like cheating.

 

Illusion/Storm can output enough DPS. I can vouch for Babbage and that was level-limited to the Synapse TF.

If you can keep the pets alive, Demon/Storm can definitely do it. It might require hovertanking.

 

If you're accepting in-set -Regen, then there are tons of options.
A Beam Rifle character can probably do it, especially if they have a secondary that also debuffs -Regen.

Bots have -Regen, and anyone with Traps has perma -1000 regen, so any /Traps MM should be able to do it as well as most Bots/anything.

Heck, I think that an Earth/Cold Controller can do it, with Animate Stone tanking the GM and Benumb killing its Regen.

Edited December 21, 2019 by Coyote

[Haijinx]

On 12/19/2019 at 10:49 AM, Gulbasaur said:

I stand corrected! I knew it was something/bio.

 

I know it's totally thematically inappropriate and would be absurdly overpowered, but titan weapons on a stalker would be fun to play with.

There are fire/fire scrappers

 

Nothing says sneaky like being a human torch. 

[siolfir]

1 hour ago, Coyote said:

 

Illusion/Storm can output enough DPS. I can vouch for Babbage and that was level-limited to the Synapse TF.

If you can keep the pets alive, Demon/Storm can definitely do it. It might require hovertanking.

 

If you're accepting in-set -Regen, then there are tons of options.
A Beam Rifle character can probably do it, especially if they have a secondary that also debuffs -Regen.

Bots have -Regen, and anyone with Traps has perma -1000 regen, so any /Traps MM should be able to do it as well as most Bots/anything.

Heck, I think that an Earth/Cold Controller can do it, with Animate Stone tanking the GM and Benumb killing its Regen.

I was assuming the "no pets" rule applied to primaries and secondaries (most of the damage from Storm is pets), otherwise there are a lot of MM options even ignoring powers with -regen, and a Crab with all the pets puts out a silly amount of damage when they're all focused on one target.

 

32 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

There are fire/fire scrappers

 

Nothing says sneaky like being a human torch. 

You probably meant Stalkers, if you're talking about sneaky.

[Haijinx]

yep Stalkers

[Parabola]

4 hours ago, Coyote said:

 

Illusion/Storm can output enough DPS. I can vouch for Babbage and that was level-limited to the Synapse TF.

If you can keep the pets alive, Demon/Storm can definitely do it. It might require hovertanking.

 

If you're accepting in-set -Regen, then there are tons of options.
A Beam Rifle character can probably do it, especially if they have a secondary that also debuffs -Regen.

Bots have -Regen, and anyone with Traps has perma -1000 regen, so any /Traps MM should be able to do it as well as most Bots/anything.

Heck, I think that an Earth/Cold Controller can do it, with Animate Stone tanking the GM and Benumb killing its Regen.

I was thinking of melee characters in particular when I asked the question (in response to an earlier comment). My brute main has solo'd a bunch of gm's but only because of a pile of envenomed daggers which as I say feels just slightly like cheating. There is something awesome about standing toe to toe with a gm and saying 'right big guy, just you and me, let's do this', but it would be nice to be able to do so entirely on the merits of the primary/secondary/tertiary.

 

On 12/19/2019 at 9:10 PM, Extor Prime said:

Titan/Bio or Rad/Bio for sure. There may be a few others.

Ah yes, I had forgotten that the answer to almost any question regarding melee is now /bio ☺️. I still don't love the set though but that may simply be lack of familiarity.

[Haijinx]

/bio for damage anyway. 

 

Several other sets are easier for durability, often a consideration for soloing AVs 

[Chirikiti]

I've solo'd many GMs without temps/pets.

 

My first batch of GMs were all no Pets/Lores/Temps. Never carried temps and I hate pets and one night (On Live) I saw an Eoachi Halloween style...lets give it a go. WIn! So I went about doing it to the rest.

 

Scrapyard was the hardest due to regen and the Kronos Titan GM because robots/inanimate are the hardest to damage (/psi)

 

Did the same here for a huge chunk of them. Winterlord-dude I Lore'd...meh, it's late and let's get this done.

Same with all the AVs under 50 TFs/trials-no pets/temps.

 

Annnd as someone mentioned not all are created equal, some are a lot harder and some are sorta pushovers

 

-Number-Six  Vet Level 660 Dominator-Extraordinaire (Like I'd give out my build, hah. And builds aren't the end of it anyway, experience (not xp) counts for a lot).

[Sovera]

16 hours ago, Chirikiti said:

-Number-Six  Vet Level 660 Dominator-Extraordinaire (Like I'd give out my build, hah. And builds aren't the end of it anyway, experience (not xp) counts for a lot).

🙂

[Mitchman]

To follow up i had a two week break from work and i got to really test out Fire/Bio and TW/Bio Scrapps. 

Solo'd around 14 or so AV's with them did not get the chance to take on some GM's. With that being said, they both worked relatively well. TW absolutely feels stronger and i will roll with that for the time being. Was able to do them most of the time without dagger and very little help of the Lore pets.

 

As stated above each one was so much different some took -4 minutes some took 15+ minutes lol.

 

Next up i think i will give Ice/Bio a whirl.

 

Thanks 😄 

[Shred Monkey]

It occurred to me after reading through this thread that I really wasn't sure I'd seen a melee toon without -regen and without pets solo a GM (basically just using pure DPS).   So I logged in my StJ/Bio scrapper.... without using DNA Siphon and without using lore pet or any other temp powers, I solo'd Babbage in Boomtown.   I used my hybrid toggle to start and finished the fight a few seconds before it came up 2nd time.

 

For reference if you want to do some math to calculate DPS, this toon beats a Pylon in right about 2 min also without DNA Siphon, then beat Babbage in just under 4 min using the same setup.