Street Sweeping improvements

[Noyjitat]

Currently when you reach level 50 you have very few options to street sweep unless you exemplar down or keep a lowbie with xp turned off on an alt account. So what I'm proposing is giving most or all zones as an option using the event npc level code.

What this would mean is instead of npcs being level based they would be the same as rikti or zombie invasion npcs. To further expand upon this it would be based off the danger level of the city/zone you're visiting. Which you can see in the picture of steel canyon map. We have red zones, orange zones, yellow zones and green zones. Green zones are safe areas like hospitals and train stations where npcs currently don't spawn. 

I suggest the following:

In city zones

Yellow zone npcs con +0 to your level

Orange zones npcs +1 to your level

Red zones npcs con +2 to your level

In hazard zones

Yellow zone npcs con +1 to your level

Orange zones npcs con +2  to your level

red zone npcs con +3 to your level

 

 

Other thoughts:

*optional popup when you choose to enter a zone such as Perez Park. When you attempt to enter the zone you have two choices: Perez Park (classic) or Perez Park (adventure) Adventure would have the new rules. This allows those of you that don't want to partake in this. I know sometimes its fun to just crane kick that one hellion off a building. 

 

*For current level 50 zones perhaps this should be to +4 in red zones.

 

*At first I figured we should only do this to hazard zones but villain side only has monster island and the abyss and Praetoria has underground, firstward and nightward as its hazard zones.

 

*Starter zones Atlas, Mercy and Nova Praetoria should probably be exempt from this change.

 

*Perhaps this should only be in the upper level range like 25 - 50 zones?

 

*A private option for team/solo use added to the newspaper / radio list. "I want to protect this zone" loads up a zone as a mission map for solo, team or league use.

 

*This also eliminates running into +5 and higher npcs as a lowbie. 

 

Edited January 6, 2020 by Noyjitat

[Lines]

I'm always happy to see this topic come up. I raised it a while ago. Giving value to streetsweeping and making hazard zones feel hazardous is one of my favourite subjecte.

 

I'd get behind the hazard zones being available to both sides, as non-coop yet non-pvp zones. With villains being given stuff to do.

 

 

[oedipus_tex]

This is a good idea. A very good idea. I feel like had the game continued development this is the direction they'd eventually have gone in to make zone spawns more relevant.

 

I'm unsure how difficult it would be to implement or balance.

[Tortoise]

Excellent idea with a great lever.

 

In general I think this is the right frame of mind for publishing content enhancements to the game.  It seems to me that this could be accomplished:

*...with asset reuse for existing villain groups
*...with code reuse from Zombie Apocalypse

*...most critically, without the need to develop new zones

 

New badges, giant monsters, or event fights could easily be developed around this simple concept, too.

[Noyjitat]

24 minutes ago, Lines said:

I'm always happy to see this topic come up. I raised it a while ago. Giving value to streetsweeping and making hazard zones feel hazardous is one of my favourite subjecte.

 

I'd get behind the hazard zones being available to both sides, as non-coop yet non-pvp zones. With villains being given stuff to do.

 

 

Oh I see quite recently too. I had planned on posting this for awhile now but wanted to think more on it. Sorry I did not see your post.

[nihilii]

I kinda want this just for the challenge of starting as a level 1 and immediately streetsweeping in Dark Astoria.

[Noyjitat]

3 hours ago, Lines said:

 

I'd get behind the hazard zones being available to both sides, as non-coop yet non-pvp zones. With villains being given stuff to do.

 

Yes I think a system with mayhem like objectives added zone wide would be interesting. Those fires in steel canyon actually being started by villain players for example.

Edited January 6, 2020 by Noyjitat

[Andreah]

How about letting us self-exemp ourselves down (and only down) to the base level of the zone we're in, without needing a lowbie teammate? Perhaps from a bubble menu or such.

[Outrider_01]

Kinda useless I remember it back in the day but even then the exp was crap.  Was mostly for back lore and kill count missions in my opinion,  missions give way more exp to bother even with street sweeping...which means less exp for less effort cause it's so much safer as you can recover vs close spawns in a mission.

[Monos King]

I am very fond of this idea, but in an altered state. I would like to see the red regions adopt this setting of each zone (I'm not giving up killing grays its fun). Otherwise, self-exemplar is a good idea. While you practically already can throuhh ouroboros, it would be convenient.

[Ukase]

Interesting. I like the idea of having an option to self-exemplar for whatever reason. 

[Lost Ninja]

Use Invasion type mobs in all zones.

 

Low level zones, these are your level -1. Minions con Blue

Medium level zones these are you level (0). Minions con white.

High level zones, your level +1. Minions con yellow.

Hazard zones are whatever the zone is supposed to be +1, eg Perez is a low level so you'd have even con minions. Hive would be +2 minions.

Open world ambush style mobs should share this code, stopping random ambushes stomping lowbies (looking at you Malta). GMs remain as they are.

 

I'd also love to see zone events being fleshed out and expanded with badges for completing all a zones events, exploration/plaques/etc. Hero/Heroine of Atlas Park, etc. Some sort of accolade for getting them all.

[Pbuckley818]

Ooh... I like this!

[Grouchybeast]

On 1/9/2020 at 2:11 PM, Lost Ninja said:

Use Invasion type mobs in all zones.

 

Low level zones, these are your level -1. Minions con Blue

Medium level zones these are you level (0). Minions con white.

High level zones, your level +1. Minions con yellow.

Hazard zones are whatever the zone is supposed to be +1, eg Perez is a low level so you'd have even con minions. Hive would be +2 minions.

Open world ambush style mobs should share this code, stopping random ambushes stomping lowbies (looking at you Malta). GMs remain as they are.

 

I'd also love to see zone events being fleshed out and expanded with badges for completing all a zones events, exploration/plaques/etc. Hero/Heroine of Atlas Park, etc. Some sort of accolade for getting them all.

I would love to +1 this, just because of how much fun I would have on my fire blaster farming giant spawns of underpowered Perez mobs with their pathetic attack chains.  The Hellions would be so confused about what the heck happened to their nice, quiet, underpopulated hazard zone.

 

To be serious, though, I'm not sure how it would be possible to balance something like this to be fair to both low and high-level characters.  Even if it were possible to somehow give enemies different powers based on the level of the character they're facing, in a zone which could have a mix of levels from 1-50+, it seems like an immense amount of work.  An easier self-exemping system would seem more plausible, as the basic mechanic already exists in Ourobouros.

[Lines]

My view on this is that we're trying to give zones value for longer, give street sweeping value and yet not disrupt the balance of the game.

 

How about this for balance:

 

The safe city zones get an optional self-exemplar mechanism so you can enjoy them at their own level and get some reward, but they're still largely safe.

 

The hazard zones get unlevelled invasion mobs split into two types.

1-30

30-50

 

Perez, The Hollows and Boomtown would have the 1-30 variation, where mobs will equal your level (+x for neighborhood difficulty) up until you hit 30. You then sustain a mandatory* exemp to that level.

 

*I know mandatory would ruffle feathers, but i can foresee some gung-ho incarnate running ahead of street sweeping groups OHKOing the mobs and ruining the whole point. Also so that hazard zones retain their hazardousness.

 

Crey's Folly, Eden and the RWZ will all con purple and provide no reward until level 30. After that, they match the player's level + x for neighborhood.

 

This means that streetsweeping hazard zones could be a legit way to level in the early game without it turning into an incarnate-powered AoE rush in Perez. But that kind of gameplay will still be available with more level-appropriate enemy groups in Crey's, Eden and RWZ.

[Grouchybeast]

3 hours ago, Lines said:

My view on this is that we're trying to give zones value for longer, give street sweeping value and yet not disrupt the balance of the game.

 

How about this for balance:

 

The safe city zones get an optional self-exemplar mechanism so you can enjoy them at their own level and get some reward, but they're still largely safe.

 

The hazard zones get unlevelled invasion mobs split into two types.

1-30

30-50

 

Perez, The Hollows and Boomtown would have the 1-30 variation, where mobs will equal your level (+x for neighborhood difficulty) up until you hit 30. You then sustain a mandatory* exemp to that level.

 

*I know mandatory would ruffle feathers, but i can foresee some gung-ho incarnate running ahead of street sweeping groups OHKOing the mobs and ruining the whole point. Also so that hazard zones retain their hazardousness.

 

Crey's Folly, Eden and the RWZ will all con purple and provide no reward until level 30. After that, they match the player's level + x for neighborhood.

 

This means that streetsweeping hazard zones could be a legit way to level in the early game without it turning into an incarnate-powered AoE rush in Perez. But that kind of gameplay will still be available with more level-appropriate enemy groups in Crey's, Eden and RWZ.

I'm not really seeing an advantage to this scheme over just making self-exemping possible in all zones.  It seems to add a large amount of complexity and extra development work for not a great deal of additional functionality.

 

Taking a step back, I'm not sure how much of a demand there would be to justify that amount of work, given how very little street-sweeping you see in game at the moment.  People aren't even using the level-appropriate zones we do have.  You don't see people in LFG advertising for incarnate teams street-sweeping in Dark Astoria, for example.  You see people running +4/x8 papers in PI.

[Lines]

 

59 minutes ago, Grouchybeast said:

I'm not really seeing an advantage to this scheme over just making self-exemping possible in all zones.  It seems to add a large amount of complexity and extra development work for not a great deal of additional functionality.

 

Taking a step back, I'm not sure how much of a demand there would be to justify that amount of work, given how very little street-sweeping you see in game at the moment.  People aren't even using the level-appropriate zones we do have.  You don't see people in LFG advertising for incarnate teams street-sweeping in Dark Astoria, for example.  You see people running +4/x8 papers in PI.

Fair; let me rebuke thus:

 

Currently there is no incentive to street-sweep anywhere. You almost may as well not have mobs out there, were it not for hunt missions and badges

 

This aims to make street sweeping a good levelling activity that could be done in entire leagues and sustain itself as a levelling method for a broader band of levels. DA isn't the right place for levelling regardless.

 

With a wider level range for hazard zones, more people can get involved. Currently the max levels for Perez Park, The Hollows and Boomtown are somewhere between 10-20, which are extremely quick levels to pass through and would often exemp characters to levels where their build isn't so fun. A range of 1-30 would mean higher level characters have access to their level 32 powers, while low levels can still enjoy the zones at their intended level. The best way for that huge range to work would be for the mobs to be unlevelled.

 

It is more development work, but I think that Paragon City outside of the missions has so much opportunity to be so much better and rewarding to spend time in, that just an auto-exemplar feature would be a long stretch from its potential benefit to the game.

 

I'd even want to add extra incentive with a street sweeping merit currency to the game with its own rewards, a bit like vanguard merits, but I also think that too many currencies are a detriment to MMOs... So a bit torn on that one.

[EmmySky]

1 hour ago, Lines said:

I'd even want to add extra incentive with a street sweeping merit currency to the game with its own rewards, a bit like vanguard merits, but I also think that too many currencies are a detriment to MMOs... So a bit torn on that one.

Street merits....for hero, found a penny picked it up....for villain, rifled the foes pockets....for vigilante or rogue could go either way.

 

On the ' find a penny pick it up all the day you'll have good luck' thought, maybe instead of new currency it could increase insp drops (get more larges type thing).

 

Sometimes my son and I will roll new toons and just sweep atlas, hollows, perez and steel and get to about 14.  Good fun.  It does get painful after that because the door mish bonus becomes noticeable and leveling really slows down.  I would totally street sweep all the way to 50 if it wasn't quite so draggy.

[Shred Monkey]

I would support a way to make street sweeping for rewards after 50 more convenient.  Currently your best options are DA and RWZ.  I don't really like the idea of changing the current low level zones. 

 

I do like the idea of being able to exemplar down by yourself.  (You can do this by starting an Oro Arc now, but that's a little unwieldy)

 

[gameboy1234]

Some good ideas here.

 

Personally if it were me, I'd also give each zone a minimum level.  Mobs would not con below that level regardless.  So if you're level 1 and you go to Kings Row (which I'll assume has a minimum level of 5), the mobs in the yellow zone would start at level 5, the mobs in the orange zones would start at level 6, and the mobs in the red zones would start at level 7.

 

Hmm, perhaps that's not enough, and each zone should increase by +2 rather than +1.  It might even depend on the zone.

 

For heroes that are above the level of the zone and fighting "invasion" style mobs, have your noteriety affect how the mobs con.  If you're at +0, then the mobs con normally.  If you're at +1, then all mobs con at +1 to what would be their normal level. Etc.

 

* * *

 

Actually this is getting complicated.  What I think would be simpler would just be to add an NPC to each zone (maybe even add this to the Trainer or Detective in each zone) that could just exemp you down in level to some range for the zone, down to say -1 for the zone level.  This sounds easier to me that replacing all the mobs in the game or altering every zone.  Exemp code is already in game, and you just have your level set to that as if you were on a team with someone.  This stays until you 1) leave the zone, or 2) you join a team or league.

 

Basically you talk to someone like the Detective and say "I know I'm too high level but I'd like to help out." and they say well ok here's some stuff you can do, and then you're the right level for that zone.

 

[Greycat]

I'd go for this - as a self-exemp, rather than the invasion mechanics. Simplest way.

 

Oh, if someone wants incentive, well, badges. (On top of the kill badges.)