Powers getting back to their Roots

[Stan The Man]

Hey, kids!  I was browsing through Paragon Wiki and noticed that there was no mention that some powers, I only remember a handful of scrapper sets... (Claws and Martial Arts)  use to have a handful of rooting powers.  Not powers that rooted PVE mobs, but rooted the player in a long animation.   Most of these attacks were DoT attacks as well.  Think of Flurry, Smite, or Sands of Mu... very similar these attacks were to the ones removed.  I seem to recall only two.  Claws use to have this lunging scraping attack with both claws sort of doing a vertical flurry of attacks.  And Martial Arts had a much different Storm Kick?  that rooted you on one leg while you did an assortment of kicks to the enemy.

Now, there was certainly a reason these powers were removed.  DoT missing is pretty devastating, especially when you're rooted in the animation cycle.  They may have even been counterproductive to what the Scrapper archetype or these powersets were designed to be.  Something fast and dealing damage quickly.   But, unlike other animations that are recycled in the game.  (Again, Flurry, Smite, and Sands of Mu come to mind.) I've yet to see these animations reused in other powers or sets.

So, some questions.  Does anyone remember when these powers were upgraded/replaced?  This was not during Issue 18.  This was around Issue 2 or 3.  It may even be the old beta powers, but I could've sworn these powers were released this way and were changed way before CoV which I think was released only a year and half later.

Do you think those old animations are still in the database somewhere?

And if they were, would anyone be interested to see them again?

Maybe up the animation time or lower the chance to miss.

In either case, I have two reasons why I bring them up.  With the addition of Master Brawler in the Super Reflexes, could we maybe see these older powers return?  Or, maybe we could reuse the old Storm Kick Animation with the Flurry to give the option of kicking or punching with it?

I'm sure this won't be everyone's cup of tea, so I'm not committed to seeing these again.  I suppose I just want to prove I'm not crazy for remembering how certain powers use to be.

[Leogunner]

I don't recall witnessing the Storm Kick animation as I think it was changed before I started playing.  But I do recall seeing youtube videos of the animation and kept hoping it'd be reused for something else.

 

The animation from Dark Melee you're talking about is called Shadow Maul.  Smite is a quick crosspunch.

 

I remember the Claws animation as it was also reused for the Spines Barb Swipe animation but both have since been changed.  I know NPCs still use those "cat swippy" animations though.

 

Another I recall is the Fire Blast attack Flares that does this whole "raise both arms up and let loose a barrage of little fire balls" and it is also used by Outcast NPCs.

 

Would I like to see these animations as options?  YES!  One of my all-time favorite attacks is Shadow Maul and now that it has a decent arc on Tanker, I'm enjoying trying to manage its use to get the biggest bang for my buck.  I'd like to see either new sets use the animations and improve upon them.  Making them alternate powers for sets should probably be used more as a last resort rather than something for fun/cosmetic like this.

 

I heard another idea about helping long animation powers being having a 2nd shorter animation that plays if it completely whiffs.  That might be rather tough to do but could be a good improvement rather than always shaving more and more off animations all the time.

[Uun]

Quick search of the patch notes indicates the martial arts animations were updated in I2. 

[Bossk_Hogg]

I kind of wish the gloriously stupid cat scratch animation for Barb Swipe was ported to another power. They just need to make it hit hard enough to be worth the animation lock. 

[Rathulfr]

I think I dated Barb Swipe back in high school... 🤔

[biostem]

It would be interesting, (albeit a tremendous amount of work), if they could make it so you could pick from practically any animation that you wanted of a given category, (melee animations for those attacks, etc), with the numbers being adjusted for the length/duration of the chosen animation;  Shorter animations result in lower damage, longer ones get more damage.

[Trickshooter]

The Claws animation was changed in Issue 7, I think. It's still used by some NPCs.

 

The Storm Kick animation is gone, IIRC. No traces of it remain in the game files to even attempt to use it for anything else. I think someone suggested possibly being able to get it from Launch era install discs, but not sure anyone who can do that has actually wanted to bring that animation back.

[Leogunner]

8 minutes ago, Trickshooter said:

The Claws animation was changed in Issue 7, I think. It's still used by some NPCs.

 

The Storm Kick animation is gone, IIRC. No traces of it remain in the game files to even attempt to use it for anything else. I think someone suggested possibly being able to get it from Launch era install discs, but not sure anyone who can do that has actually wanted to bring that animation back.

I might have that disc. I'd have to call my mom to dig through my old stuff but it's probably still with my old PC stuff. 

[Sakura Tenshi]

this is apparently the old storm kick.

[Megajoule]

I still have my original CoH and CoV boxes.  Sitting on a shelf within arm's reach, even.

[Leogunner]

8 minutes ago, Megajoule said:

I still have my original CoH and CoV boxes.  Sitting on a shelf within arm's reach, even.

So it's you that is holding Classic Storm Kick hostage.

 

3 hours ago, Sakura Tenshi said:

this is apparently the old storm kick.

Oh my, that Classic Crane Kick animation too lol

[siolfir]

21 hours ago, biostem said:

It would be interesting, (albeit a tremendous amount of work), if they could make it so you could pick from practically any animation that you wanted of a given category, (melee animations for those attacks, etc), with the numbers being adjusted for the length/duration of the chosen animation;  Shorter animations result in lower damage, longer ones get more damage.

Longer animations doing extra damage... so something like ((CastTime+InterruptTime)*0.7+Recharge*0.04+0.4)/AreaFactor then?

Edited February 5, 2020 by siolfir

[biostem]

6 minutes ago, siolfir said:

Longer animations doing extra damage... so something like ((CastTime+InterruptTime)*0.7+Recharge*0.04+0.4)/AreaFactor then?

A interesting read.  Thanks!

[Galaxy Brain]

I wonder how the meta would shift if the PvP damage formula is used... its mostly buffs iirc due to the animations?

[siolfir]

18 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

I wonder how the meta would shift if the PvP damage formula is used... its mostly buffs iirc due to the animations?

You can check in-game, just click the button to view the PvP effects... on the left in these screenshots:

 

 

 

Edited February 5, 2020 by siolfir
removing extra image

[Galaxy Brain]

So it looks like a bit of a nerf actually... hm, would have thought powers with >2s activation would ha e been buffed. 

[siolfir]

10 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

So it looks like a bit of a nerf actually... hm, would have thought powers with >2s activation would ha e been buffed. 

No longer in a spot that I can get screenshots, but if you look at slow-activating, low-recharge powers (which would do lower damage in PvE because of the low recharge, such as Impale or Spirit Shark aka Carp Blast) you'll see improvements. Also, Brute and Tanker PvP damage numbers were set to be the same when it was implemented and I think that the recent Tanker damage buffs were PvE only so that would affect the comparisons - something I didn't think of when I picked Tanker for the screenshot. Brute Knockout Blow does a bit more damage in PvP (same as above at 167.03 for PvP while PvE is 148.48).

Edited February 5, 2020 by siolfir
more links

[Captain Powerhouse]

On 2/3/2020 at 2:53 PM, Stan The Man said:

So, some questions.  Does anyone remember when these powers were upgraded/replaced?

 

I remember that Chun Li kick.

 

 

I used to have a Martial Arts scrapper, damned cool name, the kind you only get if you start very early: Shadowing (a batman kinda character with a raven/crow mottif.) That kick was in my mind the center of that character's soul. When they took the animation away, I was so angry I deleted the character. If i find that animation in the files, and I think it actually is still there, hiding somewhere, I'll nerf MA only to return the animation!!!! (Just kidding, but I seriously would figure a way to get the animation back into the game.)

[Captain Powerhouse]

12 hours ago, siolfir said:

You can check in-game, just click the button to view the PvP effects... on the left in these screenshots

 

That is not a good representation on impact, as there are more things affecting PvP damage than the damage formula. All players have different damage modifiers for PvP, and it tends to be higher than their PvE damage. A lot of powers would take a bigger nerf than what you see there if the PvP formula was applied on PvE.

 

Edit: It would be a huge re-balancing project to change the PvE game to use the PvP formula, and few would be happy with the result (even if it was a buff) due to it forcing big gameplay changes.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Captain Powerhouse

[Redlynne]

18 hours ago, Sakura Tenshi said:

this is apparently the old storm kick.

The old/original Storm Kick was known to the forums as the "smell my foot" animation because of what happened when you MISSed.

 

25 minutes ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

I remember that Chun Li kick.

 

 

It works for Chun-Li because her attacks only need to check for Range (in 2D).  As soon as you also have to account for a ToHit check as well, you wind up with the "smell my foot" on MISS animation.

[SeraphimKensai]

The ultimate rooting power no one mentioned, Unyielding from Invulnerability. It used to root you to the ground so you couldn't move without teleporting around.

[Captain Powerhouse]

19 minutes ago, Redlynne said:

It works for Chun-Li because her attacks only need to check for Range (in 2D).  As soon as you also have to account for a ToHit check as well, you wind up with the "smell my foot" on MISS animation.

 

If I recall, the animation was shorter than Total Focus, it was just busy so it gives a perception of length. On that note: if left to pure perception, some might say Energy Transfer is slower than Total Focus, when its significantly faster.

[siolfir]

52 minutes ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

If I recall, the animation was shorter than Total Focus, it was just busy so it gives a perception of length. On that note: if left to pure perception, some might say Energy Transfer is slower than Total Focus, when its significantly faster.

No idea what the actual animation time was since I started during i7 and it was long ago changed, but the highlighted portion isn't a good comparison: pretty much every attack animation is shorter than Total Focus, except for long-form snipes because of the interrupt portion of the animation and the powers that tie due to sharing the animation with Total Focus.

 

That said, looking at the video above (without going frame-by-frame to count and calculating it) the animation starts while the time is early in 0:03 and the power starts recharging while it's on 0:07. If it's not longer, it's really close and is definitely over 3 seconds.

[SwitchFade]

Invuln rooted, changed in 2 I think. God that sucked.

 

Claws swiffy swiped, I loved it, deleted my claws when they redid the animations.

 

MA had back flippy, side pausin' kicky, hyper machine gun kicky fun, which changed in 2, 7 and I think 9?

 

Ene melee got ganked. And I forget when, but I think 12 or so? Death to TF! Deleted my main tank.

 

I miss anything?

 

 

[SwitchFade]

2 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

I remember that Chun Li kick.

 

 

I used to have a Martial Arts scrapper, damned cool name, the kind you only get if you start very early: Shadowing (a batman kinda character with a raven/crow mottif.) That kick was in my mind the center of that character's soul. When they took the animation away, I was so angry I deleted the character. If i find that animation in the files, and I think it actually is still there, hiding somewhere, I'll nerf MA only to return the animation!!!! (Just kidding, but I seriously would figure a way to get the animation back into the game.)

You, are the person. I use gender neutral here to be safe.

 

And I give you an air-five.