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aethereal

Some T9 Armor Suggestions

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The old crashing god-mode T9 armor powers are broadly bad.  This is a suggestion for thematic, choosable powers.  This suggestion flagrantly violates the cottage rule.  In general, I have been looking for relatively low-power T9s, just not utterly useless, because in general armor sets are quite good, and huge buffs for them are not necessary.

 

Super Reflexes

 

Clickable +to-hit (maybe 10%), +recharge (maybe 50%), +damage (maybe 20%), mez protect all to a high degree (clickable while mezzed).  20 second duration, 4 minute recharge, no crash, moderate endurance cost (maybe 10?).

 

Rationale:  SR needs a little oomph.  It doesn't need any more defense, obviously, and I think giving it heals or resists is a bad idea, but the common complaint is that all it gives you is defense.  This gives you a thematic burst of speed to help you deal with tough enemies, and damage and recharge are basically always welcome.  It's not perma-able.

 

Invulnerability

 

Auto-power.  When enemies attack you with a melee-tagged attack, they have a small chance (10%) to proc a knockdown on themselves as they literally bounce off you.  For Brutes only, the same proc gives you a mild bonus Fury amount (5ish?)

 

Rationale:  Invul is fine, but kind of low-key.  This doesn't really have that much game effect, but it feels like it's a flavorful, prestige ability.  Like, "Suckers!"  The Brute thing is to keep it from being a net negative to fury gen for them.

 

Electric Armor

 

For Scrappers/Stalkers/Sentinels:  +10% def-all, +big number regen (I don't know regen numbers well), +20% self heal at initiation, no crash, moderate endurance, 30 second duration, 5 minute recharge.

 

For Tankers/Brutes:  Not sure, honestly.  Maybe just the above.

 

Rationale:  Electric Armor is a good set for tanks/brutes and a not-so-good set for the 75% resist-cap ATs.  Those ATs really could use a burst of survivability, but giving more resist is unlikely to help survivability in the current environment (they'll already be at or close to cap in most resists), and the crash isn't worth it.  So we give them a no-crash power that is likely to substantially improve their survivability.  For Tanks/Brutes, the set doesn't really need a buff, but it would be nice to give them the opportunity to turn into a lightning monster every once in a while.

 

Energy Aura

 

Toggle:  When active, -10% def-all, and you proc energy damage on all of your attacks for an expected bonus of +20% damage.

 

Rationale:  Energy Aura does not need a buff, this is a flavorful but not-very-good power that you could take some prestige factor when steamrolling content.

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i totally agree the t9 "god powers" need an overhaul. How about the power gives what the set lacks. for example defense based sets get resists from the t9 (non perm) and the resist based sets get defense. I do like the invuln idea u had its weird there's no reflect powers in this mmo. I'm not complaining just an observation


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I’ve thought about this stuff since before shutdown and your own idea for SR is a lot like mine, that said I think for invul, rather than get rid of the crash, the crash should feel worth it. My own idea went something like:

 

Unstoppable:

+90% resistance to all damage types (even psionic)

+50% Defense to all damage types 

+500% Max HP

+500% absorb

+100 points of protection vs all mezzes 

+200% endurance recovery

+1000% resistance to all forms of debuff, mezzes, taunt, and placate

+100% damage

+30% ToHit

(all of the above lasts for 2 minutes)

-1000 Endurance after 2 minute delay

-1000% recovery after 2 minute delay for 15 seconds

-90% HP after 2 minute delay (irresistible)

>Recharges in 15 mins, unenhanceable.

 

the idea is that when you become unstoppable, you are unstoppable. It’s 2 minutes of Godmode and anything trying to hurt you would be better off just running. Naturally there’s still the nasty crash at the end, but hopefully someone would instead be feeling like it was completely worth it.

 

i should also note such stats would be PvE only.

Edited by Sakura Tenshi
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Nah.  The things the tier 9s do are fine, they just need the numbers (both stats and recharge) to be altered to justify removing the crashes from All of them..

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Okay, guys, real talk:

 

1.  Any player willing to spend a few minutes learning to make inf and buy set IOs, and either read through set descriptions or copy builds off the forum, can already make a character who is significantly more durable than "godmode" was back in the day.  There are only a few sets that benefit to any real degree from a short period of increased durability (mainly, pure-resist sets on the 75% resist-cap classes).  For other power-sets, you're at most benefitting the people who stubbornly resist using IOs.

 

2.  Given #1, almost nothing is going to be worth a crash.  Even if a careful player could get value out of a crash-power, they're just OBNOXIOUS and fiddly and most people are not going to want to play a crash power.  Look at the wailing and gnashing of teeth that we had here when there was a suggestion made to make Rage have a totally avoidable crash!

 

3.  Also, armor sets and armor ATs are strong!  We do not need to give Brutes a big buff.  Like that is literally the last thing we need.  There are all kinds of fun offense-oriented T9 powers you could give, but they would take already extremely strong characters and give them a big buff.

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If t9 God Mode powers could increase player character resistance caps or decrease the minimum chance to be hit (where appropriate), they’d be a lot better.

 

Also, Unstoppable should give +100% slow resistance and a 2-foot radius repel aura, so you can’t be stopped by snares or enemies physically blocking your path.

Edited by Vanden
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Suggesting for Super Reflexes:  "Glancing Blow":  Any attack that hits you, has a chance to deal reduced damage as you roll with the punch/attack.

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1 hour ago, Wavicle said:

Nah.  The things the tier 9s do are fine, they just need the numbers (both stats and recharge) to be altered to justify removing the crashes from All of them..

Some are "fine".  Some are pointless.

 

+45 def to SR or EA or Nin?  For why? 

 

A self rez nuke for Fire, that only works if you die?

 

SRs T9 is double stupid on Tankers since they are soft capped in the 20s on just SOs

 

 

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For EA I'd suggest Resist to all but PSI instead of Defense.  Reduce its crash and duration.

 

For Electric id suggest Defense instead of Resist...

 

For SR how about a bonus to hp, resist, regen and recovery?

 

Fire and Dark should be allowed to use their Rezzes as nukes while alive. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Haijinx said:

For EA I'd suggest Resist to all but PSI instead of Defense.  Reduce its crash and duration.

 

For Electric id suggest Defense instead of Resist...

 

For SR how about a bonus to hp, resist, regen and recovery?

 

Fire and Dark should be allowed to use their Rezzes as nukes while alive. 

 

 

Yeah those are all right suggestions I guess.

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Maybe the rezzes should be able to be used while still alive and under 50% health or something.  Or they have lower offensive effects when used while still alive.

 

I forgot Ninjutsu.

 

Ninjutsu

 

Suggestion one:  Change name to Ninjutsu.

 

Suggestion two:  T9 is a very fast-cast, short-duration (10s?) pet that has very small numbers of hit points and a powerful AoE taunt and no attacks.  It might have very high AoE defense.  Recharge is maybe 30 seconds?  It uses the Phantom Army power tech to be a transparent duplicate of the caster.  Basically, it appears and takes a hit or two and then dies.

 

Rationale:  Ninjutsu is a fine set for scrappers and sentinels, and the fixes needed for Stalkers are out of the scope of T9.  This is flavorful, not very good, and gives a unique type of mitigation to Ninjutsu which is often basically in theme, "Like SR."

Edited by aethereal

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It’s going to be very hard to convince the homecoming devs that melee need this much of a buff.

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Just now, Wavicle said:

It’s going to be very hard to convince the homecoming devs that melee need this much of a buff.

Is this addressed to me?  What do you see as a big buff, of my suggestions?  I would say that only the SR one is much of a buff, and that's largely because SR has become the least-good of the defense sets.

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1 hour ago, Haijinx said:

Some are "fine".  Some are pointless.

 

+45 def to SR or EA or Nin?  For why? 

 

A self rez nuke for Fire, that only works if you die?

 

SRs T9 is double stupid on Tankers since they are soft capped in the 20s on just SOs

 

 

And Hibernate.  Nothing says "I'm the Tanker, I'll protect you" more than leaving combat and letting your team take the aggro.  

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13 minutes ago, aethereal said:

Is this addressed to me?  What do you see as a big buff, of my suggestions?  I would say that only the SR one is much of a buff, and that's largely because SR has become the least-good of the defense sets.

Addressed to the thread in general.

 

Of course the crashes on the tier 9s should be modified, but I wouldn’t expect huge performance improvements.

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19 minutes ago, aethereal said:

Ninjutsu

 

Suggestion one:  Change name to Ninjutsu.

 

Suggestion two:  T9 is a very fast-cast, short-duration (10s?) pet that has very small numbers of hit points and a powerful AoE taunt and no attacks.  It might have very high AoE defense.  Recharge is maybe 30 seconds?  It uses the Phantom Army power tech to be a transparent duplicate of the caster.  Basically, it appears and takes a hit or two and then dies.

Does it turn into a log with a shirt when it expires?

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4 hours ago, Wavicle said:

Nah.  The things the tier 9s do are fine, they just need the numbers (both stats and recharge) to be altered to justify removing the crashes from All of them..

Not really. Some are useful, some aren't. A crashless Elude isnt really doing anything but gilding the lily, are you're likely already capped. The revive ones are trash for tanks and need to have a usable feature while you're alive. Tanks should absolutely get Icy Bastion rather than Hibernate to help wipe their team. 

 

Compare these to T9's that actually complement the set they're with, like Meltdown, One with the Shield, Parasitic Aura, Strength of Will, etc. 

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1 hour ago, Generator said:

Whatever happens to electric armor, just don't try and take away my electromagnetic pulse. 😁

Honestly I'd be happy if they just replace Power Surge with EM Pulse; it's fun to have a 20+ second 16-target PBAoE mag 3 hold (50% chance for mag 4) with a 60' radius that also throws in a -1000% regen debuff and -55% end, plus damages robots, and EMP doesn't crash your hit points in the middle of a spawn.

 

But some people probably use Power Surge to plug the toxic hole and/or like being a gremlin, so that's probably out as an idea.

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I think the idea is that powers like Elude, Kuji In Retsu, and Overload give these sets the ability to cap defense WITHOUT IO sets, incarnate powers, or even pool powers.

Leaving them essentially as is, but removing or reducing their crash, leaves them as an option to use when you don't yet have those other things, and allows you to build for recharge instead of defense if that's what you want.

I'm not saying that makes them good. But it makes them at least have SOME purpose for some people without overly buffing ATs that are already FINE.

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Here are my suggestions:

I'd say give Kuji-In Retsu and Elude the MoG treatment.  Make them a lot shorter yet also add strong Regen to them. Lower the recharge, but continue to allow recharge enhancements. No crash at all.

Give Power Surge, Overload, and Unstoppable the OwtS/SoW treatment. Make them only slightly less powerful and only slightly shorter, and lower the recharge considerably. Do not allow recharge buffs to effect them.  Reduce the crashes considerably.

Alter Granite Armor so that it has lower values but STACKS with the other armors instead of replacing them. Allow Jumping (with severe limits) while in Granite Armor, but Not in Rooted.

Maybe add a little endurance to Dark Regen but leave the self rez as is?

Maybe add some S/L res to Temperature Protection but leave the self rez as is?

And make Hibernate itself cause an AoE Taunt effect.



Oh, and give Tankers Energy Aura. Change the numbers to make it work.

  

14 hours ago, aethereal said:

Maybe the rezzes should be able to be used while still alive and under 50% health or something.  Or they have lower offensive effects when used while still alive.

That's a neat idea. Maybe lower health though, but with full values. 30% perhaps.

Edited by Wavicle

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3 hours ago, Wavicle said:

I think the idea is that powers like Elude, Kuji In Retsu, and Overload give these sets the ability to cap defense WITHOUT IO sets, incarnate powers, or even pool powers.

That may be the idea, but the current reality is that Elude and Retsu are click travel powers with +recovery. Overload has a fully-enhanceable +max hp which will help when something is hitting you through your defense, though - that part is often overlooked when talking about it, and so it does provide something in exchange for the endurance crash (which is easily mitigated with Energy Drain while it's crashing).

 

1 hour ago, Wavicle said:

Oh, and give Tankers Energy Aura. Change the numbers to make it work.

If the numbers are only changed for Tankers, sure. I wouldn't want it nerfed for everyone else just so Tankers can get it. It's a good set for the other ATs, but not something head and shoulders better than the others.

 

 

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22 minutes ago, siolfir said:

 

 

If the numbers are only changed for Tankers, sure. I wouldn't want it nerfed for everyone else just so Tankers can get it. It's a good set for the other ATs, but not something head and shoulders better than the others.

 

 

Agreed.

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Meltdown and Bio armor are perfect examples of good t9 powers. While Meltdown is less useful on tankers, it still gives enough bonuses to warrant taking. The biggest problem with T9 is the crashes, similar to why rage is good on paper and bad in practice. We've known for a long time the paragon devs had plans to fix this but it's never gonna be as simple as adjusting values.

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9 hours ago, Wavicle said:

I think the idea is that powers like Elude, Kuji In Retsu, and Overload give these sets the ability to cap defense WITHOUT IO sets, incarnate powers, or even pool powers.

Leaving them essentially as is, but removing or reducing their crash, leaves them as an option to use when you don't yet have those other things, and allows you to build for recharge instead of defense if that's what you want.

I'm not saying that makes them good. But it makes them at least have SOME purpose for some people without overly buffing ATs that are already FINE.

IO's exist. They have been in the game longer than they havent. Having powers that are only good if you use some scrub build may as well be based on using TO's at 50. 

 

Powers, particularly T9's, need to reflect the game as it is now, not how it was in Issue 3. The AT is fine because of overperforming sets. You can't honestly think Ice and SR are in the same league as other, modern sets. 

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