Focused Feedback: Shock Therapy (Build 1)

[Haijinx]

Oddly, I was voted "Most likely to receive extensive shock therepay" in high school. 

 

This set actually looks kind of cool whatever it ends up being called. 

 

 

 

 

[csr]

I played a bit at levels 1-3 (AP street), 10-12 (Wincott/Flux) and 25 (Wheel of Destruction arc) on a ST/Elec Def to test low level performance.  The set isn't good solo at those levels, a bit better than Empathy perhaps, but worse than pretty much everything else.  However, it's easy to see how good this set would be on a Mastermind just from looking at the powers you never get to use solo on a Defender.   Because so many of the powers require an ally, I think choosing to test it on something other than an MM was a mistake as it limits real testing to teaming; which is never all that common on the beta servers and the teams I've seen haven't been normal teams with one ST toon, but rather teams with multiple ST users on them.  Also, teaming is a less controlled environment, making it a bit harder to assess what you're seeing.

Edited February 25, 2020 by csr

[Haijinx]

All other Electric sets have Electric/Electrical in the name.  

 

So it is a drift.  

 

Electric Shock Therapy might be better if keeping the name is important. 

[skoryy]

50 minutes ago, Eran Rist said:

That's consensual. You can always boot them from your team. And some people like it to hurt.

I was going to put on a serious hat about how villains and vigilantes are problematic by nature, but...

 

Shock Therapy is a support set. so its also consensual.

[csr]

If you want a medical sounding term "Galvanic Stimulation" is a less negative choice than "Shock Therapy".

[Arkasas]

6 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

All other Electric sets have Electric/Electrical in the name.  

 

So it is a drift.  

 

Electric Shock Therapy might be better if keeping the name is important. 

All the fire sets have Fire in the name, except Thermal Radiation. All the ice sets have Ice in the name, except Cold Domination. Support set names don't follow any pattern, for whatever reason.

[GM Cyclone]

1 hour ago, Allenkenda said:

 

Congrats. This is your first experience as a professional company making a statement that will be viewed as speaking on behalf of all of HC Leadership while also being drastically in the wrong. Every company trying to go legit hits this wall- This is your wall. How Leadership handles this going forwards will set a tone on whether or not certain segments of this community can trust you or believe you're acting in good faith. 

FYI, we GMs are just volunteers who have very little to do with the development or running of the game. We're just ordinary players who donate some of our time to help others. And we don't give up our right to have personal opinions—or, even, professional opinions, given that he's a mental health professional IRL—just because we volunteer to yank mobs out of walls for people. Arcanum doesn't "speak on behalf of all HC Leadership." He speaks on behalf of Arcanum. Nor do I speak on behalf of HC leadership. I just speak on behalf of me.

 

That said, I'm not a huge fan of the name either—not because I necessarily think it's bad (although I am leaning that way), but because I know that lots of other people think it's bad if not downright triggering, and there are plenty enough controversies surrounding Homecoming/CoH already that there's no need to court one more. So I do rather hope they pick a better one. (And I think it's probably a bad idea to talk about "reclaiming" things in general.)

 

But that's just my personal opinion. I don't speak for Homecoming. I just yank mobs out of walls for people.

Edited February 26, 2020 by GM Cyclone

[Doc_Scorpion]

9 minutes ago, GM Cyclone said:

FYI, we GMs are just volunteers who have very little to do with the development or running of the game. We're just ordinary players who donate some of our time to help others. And we don't give up our right to have personal opinions—or, even, professional opinions, given that he's a mental health professional IRL—just because we volunteer to yank mobs out of walls for people.

Certainly you have a right to a personal opinion, nobody with any sense would debate that for even an instant.  But, from having been in the same kind of position, you have to know that posting with that blue highlight of officialdom around your post gives it additional weight.  Rightly or wrongly, your position is perceived as having a certain level of "officialness" behind them.  (And that perception is aided by the fact that "official" accounts are often used for exactly that purpose - to lend weight and "officialness" to their posts.  The blue highlight attracts attention by design.)

[Alchemystic]

Faraday Cage being a static AoE patch doesn't make a lot of sense, considering it's a power that grants mez protection.

 

If you're mezzed, it's going to be real hard to move over to a new location.

 

As for the name 'Shock Therapy', perhaps it does have negative connotations because of the current political climate, but I'm sure the devs had no intention of causing anyone discomfort, so we should maybe cut them some slack. Attacking the devs isn't going to help anyone, let alone whatever social group or political clique you may be part of.

 

In my opinion, we should maybe call this powerset 'Electric Conduction'

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by Tyrannical

[Haijinx]

We may be in one of those cyclic outrage sessions here.  

 

Someone is mildly bothered ... then someone ups the ante ... someone tries to downplay ... flames begin.

 

As Arkasas explained the elemental support sets follow the pattern of the aspect (cold, thermal)  so Shock does make sense. 

 

Is Treatment better than Therapy?  Who knows?  Something else?

 

But I'm sure no malice was intended *at all* by the name, regardless of some of the reactions here. 

[Jimmy]

I think the conversation regarding the name has run its course. We understand the concerns and will be discussing this internally, but for now I'd like to avoid further discussion in the thread as it's becoming a bit too heated and is clouding out feedback on the mechanics of the set.

 

If you wish to echo the thoughts of any posts already made, please feel free to use the reaction system 🙂

[OpMegs]

An initial thought I have on this as someone who ran a Kinetics/Elec on live is some questions I saw in the initial thread as well, namely the effectiveness of endurance drain on PVE mobs, given how enemies have seemingly much lower end consumption than PCs, thus making a Sapper strategy far more effective for, say, Malta than it is for heroes against PVE enemies.

 

I'd have to test it out, obviously, but even from Kin/Elec was able to empty entire mobs of endurance and it didn't really slow them down much, especially compared to hard holds from a Controller or other forms of debuff, so I'm wondering how this aspect of the set won't remain kinda super-niche.

[EmperorSteele]

I'm just throwing my hat in the ring in regards to the fact that the heal doesn't affect the caster. It makes the ability pretty useless solo.

Also, I should mention (as probably HAS been mentioned, but I'll admit I don't want to read 4 pages of this thread because I want to get back to testing) that every set that has a heal, has a heal that will affect the caster. Empathy and Pain both have target-only heals, true, but they also have auras which heal the caster. Fire, Rad, and Time have a PBAoE heal that heals the caster. Kin and Dark both have foe-targeted heals that can be used to heal the caster. Nature's heal heals the caster. The only exception is Storm with it's O2 boost, which is more of an ally buff which happens to include a bit of healing.

Though, I do understand that the set's chain ability will heal you when you use your shockstacks, but you don't get the ability to do that until level 6, and you have to choose a specific, unrelated power to do so (which I know sounds dumb because yes, you have to choose a healing power to heal yourself anyway, but this is different!), and you don't have much other mitigation before that... Though the -dam is pretty effective, so maybe this isn't such a huge deal.

Still, the fact that you need to a) use your static power a bunch, then b) hit a target c) within a small time-frame because the shockstacks fade after like 20 seconds, just to get HP back... well, again, I'm going to keep testing this, but I feel like my stacks are gonna get used when I don't need them, and won't be around when I do. I've had the same thing happen on my Sentinel, where Opportunity won't show up until all my foes are nearly dead, and my T1 and 2 powers are still recharging anyway. It's been the biggest gripe of mine since they started combo systems: You HAVE to take certain powers to get the most out of a given set, which feels pretty counter-intuitive given the nature of all the older powersets (where if you skipping a power meant you literally just didn't have that power, and could choose something else, and you didn't have to worry about gimping yourself by skipping a power or taking it later than its assigned level, which is a HUGE issue early on, since you have literally dozens of powers to choose from starting at level 4)

A possible fix would be a freely-granted power that simply lets you expend your shockstacks to heal on the spot. No enhancements on the power, just a straight up once-a-minute emergency stack exchange. But mweh.

This was longer and more ranty than I intended. TLDR: Self-Heal plz

Back to testing!

[HelBlaiz]

Finally back home and playing some more of my own Shock/Elec on the beta server, I definitely think some of the powers that require other players should be converted into at least a mediocre self-buff with awesome other-people-buffing effects should anyone be near enough to chain to. It would make generating Static stacks far easier solo. I'd say Rejuvenating Circuit and Empowering Circuit, since they're both early picks and offer some survivability and kill speed respectively. Empowering Circuit would also boost Endurance Modification to help amplify the Sapper aspect of Shock and Discharge.

[oedipus_tex]

Ok, first thoughts. This is a very early evaluation.

 

FIRST THOUGHTS.

I am thrilled to see the Homecoming dev team exploring new powersets. There are some interesting ideas here. Thanks for taking the time to share with us!

 

 

 

 

OVERALL.

 

On it's own: Not a bad starting place. I'd like to see more exploration before go-live.

 

One issue that stands out right away, not unique to this set, is that Electrical sets almost always need to be paired with other Electrical sets to work well. That seems to be the case here as well. This set feels like it might work well paired with Elecrtical Blast or Electric Control. Since most sets lack -Endurance or -Recovery to stack with this though, I am unsure this set could drain enough endurance to make several powers found here work well.

 

I'll note an exception to this. The Electric Control set does do reasonably well at endurance drain. It's possible a full build of Shock Therapy may as well.

 

 

Compared to other Buff/Debuff sets: Right now I'd rank this set more or less equivalent in power to Thermal Radiation. Neither overly strong nor weak. 

 

Only one buff power affects the caster. This power however grants total mezz protection, so relative to other buff/debuff sets it does have its unique place.

 

 

 

POSSIBLE BUGS.

The CoX game client crashed on me mutiple times when testing. I was standing in Atlas Park surrounded by several other players playing Shock Therapy characters for the first few crashes. I could't detect a specific reasons for crashing.

 

Moving to another zone stopped the crashes for a while. However I would CTD again periodically after each level up, immediately after finishing the level up process.

 

 

 

 

 

SHOCK.

Pros: This is a unique power, unlike anything in the game, so kudos for that. What stands out is the duration of the -Recovery. 25 seconds. That's pretty amazing and an extreme outlier compared to other powers.

 

The -Recovery and -Endurance seem to benefit from slotting.

 

Cons: One thing that immediately stands out is this power is much more effective paired with Electric Blast than any other Blast set. It also presumably is incredible paired with Electric Control. With other sets it is much more questionable.

 

The animation time for this power, at 2 seconds, is on the extreme long end for this style of T1 power. I recommend switching it to one of the various 1 second blast animations.

 

 

 

REJUVENATING CIRCUIT.

 

Pros: It's a ranged heal for your allies. Nice graphic effects.

 

Cons: There doesn't seem to be anything strategic about it chaining to another ally. It doesn't prioritize wounded allies and as far as I can tell there is no way to mark a teammate as an attractive target. That being the case, this is only as good as a single target heal.

 

At level 50 without slotting it heals 207.49 HP, compared to Thermal Radiation's single target heal Cauterize that heals 262.4. 

 

 

 

DISCHARGE.

Pros: Not bad. I'd need to play with this much more to evaluate how useful the endurance drain is when paired with a non Electric set.

 

Cons: Need to eval this more.

 

 

EMPOWERING CIRCUIT.

Pros: Technically, the effects are fine. An AoE Power Boost kind of power.

 

Cons: Seems to have a low value to cast time ratio. It's not a strictly bad power, but what's the intention? Like an opposite Weaken from the Poison set?

 

Is the idea that the Shock Therapy character will spam this on the team? The duration is 25 seconds. Maybe I'm missing something but this feels very skippable, mainly because of the cast time vs duration. This feels like it should be a power with a much longer recharge and a longer duration.

 

 

 

FARADAY CAGE.

Pros: You've found a unique niche here: a ground castable mezz protection aura. It even affects the caster. Nice job.

 

Cons: The graphics are quite busy and loud. Otherwise this power is great. I'm eager to have it in game.

 

 

INSULATING CIRCUIT

Pro: An Insulation shield is always nice.

 

Cool sound effect too.

 

Con: 20 second duration feels very short for an Absorb shield unless I'm missing something.

 

 

 

DEFIBRELLATE.

No comments. It's a flavored rezz, standard for these sets.

 

 

 

ENERGIZING CIRCUIT.

 

Pros: Well it gives your allies endurance...

 

Cons: On a Controller/Mastermind/Corruptor this will be a level 35 power. Seems very very skippable,

 

I am unsure the chaining mechanic serves this power. Feels like it should be a PBAoE with 1 minute-ish recharge. no endurance cost, also affecting caster. Like Power Sink that affects allies but requires no enemy target, 15 ft radius instead of a fancy chain. 

 

 

 

AMP UP.

 

Reminds me of Adrenaline Rush, the Empathy power. No particular thoughts.

 

Neat effect with the lightning bolt temp power triggered from the target's attacks.

 

 

 

Again thanks again for a fun an interesting set! I look forward to providing more feedback!

Edited February 26, 2020 by oedipus_tex

[csr]

31 minutes ago, EmperorSteele said:

Also, I should mention (as probably HAS been mentioned, but I'll admit I don't want to read 4 pages of this thread because I want to get back to testing) that every set that has a heal, has a heal that will affect the caster. Empathy and Pain both have target-only heals, true, but they also have auras which heal the caster. Fire, Rad, and Time have a PBAoE heal that heals the caster. Kin and Dark both have foe-targeted heals that can be used to heal the caster. Nature's heal heals the caster. The only exception is Storm with it's O2 boost, which is more of an ally buff which happens to include a bit of healing.

Poison and Storm both have targeted heals that can't affect the caster.  So that's 2 of the 5 sets with single target heals that lack an AoE heal to go with them.  Shock Therapy's heal would be the only multi-target heal that doesn't affect the caster however.  The set does have a self heal when Static is consumed as well.  But it has issues solo in that Shock is the only power to build Static charge you can use without an ally and Discharge the only power that can consume it to provide the heal.  Shock Therapy also has just 3 of 9 powers usable without an ally, matching Empathy for the least number of such powers.

[Haijinx]

Can it chain back?

[oedipus_tex]

Here is how my bar looks in game as a Shock/Archery Defender. I picked Archery to ensure a "clean" secondary with no extra effects.

 

 

The 5 powers in the top right are abilities that only affect allies.

 

Faraday Cage, in the top left, is where I usually put heals, clickable mezzes, or Domination. I opened each fight with this power since its a source of mezz protection.

 

I think its interesting how this set is encourage to stay inside its Faraday Cage for its mezz protection.

 

 

I use Row 2 for AoEs and Row 1 for single target, so the endurance drain abilities went there.

 

 

I'll note one thing right up front. I'd really like to be able to open with Discharge at full strength, but without a pet or a team, I have no way to build Static. Four of the ally powers build Static. So at least in terms of running solo, this set seems to favor Controller and Mastermind.

 

 

I also noted just how incredibly vulnerable my character was. I had very few ways to respond to enemies. Granted, my powers weren't well slotted. Maybe I can endurance crash them with Discharge as an opener? But I had no Defense, no Resistance, no Heal, no Absorb, just some -Damage, but in a builder power I can't easily charge up solo,exceptby casting a power that doesn't benefit me in any other way. Only two other sets are so vulnerable: Poison and Trick Arrow. The mezz protection is very nice of course and totally unique, so maybe this is the price? But it feels like at least one if not more of the 5 powers that are ally-only should affect my character.

Edited February 26, 2020 by oedipus_tex

[Hiyori]

I may be one of the odd ones out, but I actually kind of like Faraday Cage conceptually... even in the 'frantic pace' of the game. I appreciate it for being different mechanically. I do understand the concern about moving from fight to fight with it though. What's the cast time/recharge/end usage on it?

[JayboH]

Note that the benefits to the caster can't be buffed, like the heal.  I do appreciate the Faraday Cage length buff from the alpha server.

 

If it was switched to a toggle, the mechanics would be much better, however I kind of hope the visuals can be more transparent if that happens.  It's a very low-quality texture and is a bit glaring if you would have it on all the time.

 

Wish Energizing Circuit was earlier to help out lowbies who struggle.  I think Speed Boost is level 12 in kinetics for example.

 

What if Insulating gave you absorb as well?  Since +end and +heal for the caster is dependent on spenders and stacks, this could offset that a bit.

[honoraryorange]

Maybe its already been said, but it needs to be said again: PLEASE CHANGE THE SOUNDS

 

Rejuvenating Chain, at least, has the ridiculously annoying sound effect that the Sentinel chain heal has. You know, the one so bad that people used it to troll so much that they had to be given warnings/bans.

 

Electric AOE sounds are super messed up in this game, and are artificially loud. Please fix them 😄 

[ryuplaneswalker]

28 minutes ago, Shadeknight said:

Jimmy has said the convo regarding the name is finished and wants mechanical feedback from now on.

Well he can ignore my post then.

 

As for mechanical feedback, the two debuffs having the normal Electric -Recovery/-Endurance thing is an instant Con to me, those effects have rarely if ever been practical in real use and having a static consuming power that is completely focused on that makes for an easily skippable power in my opinion, or in the very least a power you put minimal slots in.

 

Edit : Also I am not a fan of many of the powers being "Enhancements" for secondary effects, those type of abilities can be very powerful or very useless just based on what you have to enhance. 

Edited February 26, 2020 by ryuplaneswalker

[Troo]

On 2/25/2020 at 2:24 PM, Deathvirus said:

I somehow accidentally posted feedback in the wrong channel.  Anyway after testing it I feel like the end drain is far too strong on such a low recharge in PvP.  I know it might not make it to live and I can certainly see why

maybe it'll spark some interesting team dynamics.

maybe it'll energize some renewed interest..

 

one ranged, one Targeted AoE and one PBAoE field. Seems pretty reasonable.

 

Edited February 27, 2020 by Troo

[oedipus_tex]

17 minutes ago, Tsurupettan said:

I may be one of the odd ones out, but I actually kind of like Faraday Cage conceptually... even in the 'frantic pace' of the game. I appreciate it for being different mechanically. I do understand the concern about moving from fight to fight with it though. What's the cast time/recharge/end usage on it?

 

 

I agree with you.

 

Complete mezz protection on a squishy is extremely nice. This power Recharges in 32 seconds. With just SOs you can get that to 16, and on an end game build, around 7.

 

I really like the design. It stands out noticeably from other sources of mezz protection and is a great signature kind of power. Not to mention, this is the only set that offers anything close to that level of mezz protection.

[DMW45]

Personally, I intend to see about using this whenever it's ported to MMs.  The Secondary Effect bonus sounds like it'd work really well with Demons or Necro, not to mention the damage bonus.