Focused Feedback: Dark Melee Update (Build 1)

[MunkiLord]

3 minutes ago, Troo said:

Sorry?

Someone suggested moving the damage from Dark Consumption to Soul Drain and I'm not a fan of that idea. I like to keep the mobs around when fighting AVs so I can keep Soul Drain saturated.

[Troo]

@MunkiLord Ah! That makes more sense now. That's my bad.

[siolfir]

11 minutes ago, csr said:

Typo.

Easily understood. Just didn't want it to lead to confusion by the person you were replying to, since they were wanting a large base value to build on.

[Galaxy Brain]

2 hours ago, spokiee2000 said:

increasing the recharge to 14 seconds on shadow maul was a terrible idea. 8 seconds was already long enough. And decreasing the damage too? like that's exactly how you make a power inadequate . nearly dbl the recharge and lower the damage... Who makes these decisions? because this clearly was not thought through well enough.. if anything that power needs a buff to dmg

 

Ill run the same test without the new dark consumption, only shadow maul, and show you how much it matters.

[macskull]

6 hours ago, Anubis_TD said:

To be honest, single proc per power needs to be a thing or require x amount of set or more set higher frequency 

 

I'd much rather go back to the pre-I24 proc system.

[ScarySai]

5 hours ago, MunkiLord said:

I don't want the nuke on Soul Drain because then it will be killing it's fuel. I want those minions and lts to stick around while I'm fighting an AV. 

This goes double for shield builds.

 

@macskullSame, single procs were actually useful in short-recharge abilities. I'd be fine with proc bombs going away if those rules were restored.

Edited February 28, 2020 by ScarySai

[Anubis_TD]

3 hours ago, csr said:

You are laboring under a false belief about how Soul Drain works.  There are two buffs.  One that is 40% if you hit at least 1 foe and one that is 8% for each foe hit.  That means the Soul Drain buff starts at 48% for the 1st foe hit and 8% each for the next 9.  (Scrappers get 50+10 per and Corruptors 34+6.8 per due to different Damage Self-Buff Modifiers,)

I'm sorry, I was. Teach me to cheat and rely on mids. It only shows the 8%.

Now, that other guys math makes more sense.

Ty

 

Also macskills careful or fun police will get u for off topic too 😛

Edited February 28, 2020 by Anubis_TD

[Caulderone]

Hmm.  How does the DC damage scaling work if you have over 100% endurance?  Don't know why, but this just occurred to me as a build I am playing with has 115.9% end.

[Caulderone]

24 minutes ago, Anubis_TD said:

I'm sorry, I was. Teach me to cheat and rely on mids. It only shows the 8%.

It shows the 40% under the Effects tab, and it shows the full effect on powers when toggled on.

[Myrmidon]

On 2/27/2020 at 3:36 PM, Ronin Warrior said:

My Dark/Shield tank is gonna be so awesome- time for a respec!

Magic 8-Ball says wait at least to see the live candidate before the respec, unless the idea of rearranging your powers in trays is your thing. Day 3 of any test patch is just too early for that.

Edited February 29, 2020 by Myrmidon

[MunkiLord]

4 minutes ago, Myrmidon said:

Magic 8-Ball says wait at least built your see the live candidate before the respec, unless the idea of rearranging your powers in trays is your thing. Day 3 of any test patch is just too early for that.

What kind of person enjoys rearranging powers in trays??????? Only a MONSTER! Even gingers have enough of a soul to despise that activity. 

[Myrmidon]

4 hours ago, csr said:

You are laboring under a false belief about how Soul Drain works.  There are two buffs.  One that is 40% if you hit at least 1 foe and one that is 8% for each foe hit.  That means the Soul Drain buff starts at 48% for the 1st foe hit and 8% each for the next 9.  (Scrappers get 50+10 per and Corruptors 34+6.8 per due to different Damage Self-Buff Modifiers,)

This, otherwise it would be the gimped power as some of you seem to think.

[ScarySai]

6 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

What kind of person enjoys rearranging powers in trays??????? Only a MONSTER! Even gingers have enough of a soul to despise that activity. 

I just bind SC to V and have in it a tray next to soul drain and just added maul to my '4' key since I only have the three attacks in my main tray. 

 

Dark's rotation is pretty minimal. >.>

 

Also, Soul Drain's kind of a big deal, people. It's basically the only reason the set is even competitive.

Edited February 28, 2020 by ScarySai

[Captain Powerhouse]

47 minutes ago, Caulderone said:

Hmm.  How does the DC damage scaling work if you have over 100% endurance?  Don't know why, but this just occurred to me as a build I am playing with has 115.9% end.

You have Max 115.9 points of endurance. For your character, 115.9 = 100%.

 

Side note: in a future patch the formula used by the power will be modified to use Damage buffs in a unique way. Basically, the power will not be able to be buffed drastically with tons of damage buffs.

[ScarySai]

1 minute ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

Side note: in a future patch the formula used by the power will be modified to use Damage buffs in a unique way. Basically, the power will not be able to be buffed drastically with tons of damage buffs.

Won't that be a considerable nerf, considering how important Soul Drain is to Dark Melee?

[Captain Powerhouse]

Just now, ScarySai said:

Won't that be a considerable nerf, considering how important Soul Drain is to Dark Melee?

To clarify: the change is going to be specific to Dark Consumption and nothing else. Right now, Soul Drain X10 foes (potentially with BU proc) followed by DC at full endurance is just too much damage at the start of a fight, especially on Scrappers that have a 25% higher  DMG Buff modifiers.

 

Every bit of +DMG will still increase damage, but it will work as a curve.

 

The alternative is to significantly lower the damage of Dark Consumption for everyone just to prevent high end scrapper builds (And some brute/tanks too) from getting out of hand. 
 

I prefer to try control the max damage than to try to control the base 3SO damage.

[ScarySai]

I'm merely concerned about how this might interact with /shield, brute fury and such. Dark's playstyle often depends on those fully saturated +Damage buffs to achieve those high-end results we see in pylon threads and spreadsheets. Are you able to get into detail regarding how the formula will work?

 

Also, thanks again for this,  it's nice to have a decent AoE filler via shadow maul with Dark, finally.

Edited February 28, 2020 by ScarySai
Added clarification.

[summers]

2 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

I'm merely concerned about how this might interact with /shield, brute fury and such. Are you able to get into detail regarding how the formula will work?

 

Also, thanks again for this,  it's nice to have a decent AoE filler via shadow maul with Dark, finally.

My thoughts did go to Brute straight away since their numbers are somewhat balanced on the assumption they have 180%+ damage bonuses!

[Haijinx]

16 minutes ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

Side note: in a future patch the formula used by the power will be modified to use Damage buffs in a unique way. Basically, the power will not be able to be buffed drastically with tons of damage buffs.

Yuck

[ScarySai]

10 minutes ago, summers said:

My thoughts did go to Brute straight away since their numbers are somewhat balanced on the assumption they have 180%+ damage bonuses!

On one hand, it's probably still going to be better than what we have now, but on the other hand: I don't think nerfing +Damage contribution for Dark is fitting for the set, it's entire claim to fame is being able to buff itself so much with surrounding enemies, then go to town. It's why it synergies so well with /shield, because it doubles down on that while adding another AOE to a set that had very bad AoE until now.

 

On the other, I don't understand the concern with this becoming the next game-breaker like TW or WM due to DC's damage, It's not -that- impressive, claws, katana, spines, any given blaster, most high end corruptors ect, will be outclearing Dark Melee just because of cooldown timers, and they aren't typically as dependent on fully saturated buffs.

 

It really depends on how that curve is going to work/cap out. If the damage hit isn't too significant over what's on test now, fine. If it's hitting for half-strength, I'd be a bit disappointed. 

 

 

Edited February 28, 2020 by ScarySai

[macskull]

1 minute ago, ScarySai said:

On one hand, it's probably still going to be better than what we have now, but on the other hand: I don't think nerfing +Damage contribution for Dark is fitting for the set, it's entire claim to fame is being able to buff itself so much with surrounding enemies, then go to town. It's why it synergies so well with /shield, because it doubles down on that while adding another AOE to a set that had very bad AoE until now.

 

On the other, I don't understand the concern with this becoming the next game-breaker like TW or WM due to DC's damage, It's not -that- impressive, claws, katana, spines, any given blaster, most high end corruptors ect, will be outclearing Dark Melee just because of cooldown timers.

 

It really depends on how that curve is going to work/cap out. If the damage hit isn't too significant over what's on test now, fine. If it's hitting for half-strength, I'd be a bit disappointed. 

 

 

DC's base recharge is just too long to be this insane outlier like everyone's thinking it's going to be.

[ScarySai]

11 minutes ago, macskull said:

DC's base recharge is just too long to be this insane outlier like everyone's thinking it's going to be.

I agree, with a full superior avalanche set on a fully purpled dark/shield build, +4x8 longbow, unless it crit, LTs were usually still alive after a fully mired, fully AAO'd, -res'd due to proc in drain, ageless primed dark consumption. I would often have to finish them with shield charge and maul anyway.

 

It was still fast, it's still good damage, but I don't see anyone calling beam rifle game breaking, I don't see anyone calling claws game breaking, and yet both of those things do much more impressive AOE while still giving the boss/EB/AVs quite a whooping, moreso when damage buffed.

Edited February 28, 2020 by ScarySai

[csr]

16 hours ago, Anubis_TD said:

I'm sorry, I was. Teach me to cheat and rely on mids. It only shows the 8%.

Now, that other guys math makes more sense.

Ty

 

Also macskills careful or fun police will get u for off topic too 😛

I think "that other guy" was just me again.  I've tried three shots at explaining the SD mechanic in this thread.

 

Mids isn't clear, but does list both the 40% and 8% +Dmg, as well as the +12% ToHit.  What it's missing is anything about the +8% being per target.  The +ToHit is confusing too, since it is really two buffs combined: +10% (8.5% for Corruptors) for hitting at least one plus another+2% (1.7%) for each target up to 10.  Even the detailed info in game doesn't tell you how the two buffs are applied, it just lists their magnitudes.

Edited February 28, 2020 by csr

[Bionic_Flea]

6 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

To clarify: the change is going to be specific to Dark Consumption and nothing else. Right now, Soul Drain X10 foes (potentially with BU proc) followed by DC at full endurance is just too much damage at the start of a fight, especially on Scrappers that have a 25% higher  DMG Buff modifiers.

 

Every bit of +DMG will still increase damage, but it will work as a curve.

 

The alternative is to significantly lower the damage of Dark Consumption for everyone just to prevent high end scrapper builds (And some brute/tanks too) from getting out of hand. 
 

I prefer to try control the max damage than to try to control the base 3SO damage.

Wait.  You're removing the chance for scrappers to crit on dark consumption AND putting +DAM on a curve for everyone using consumption?

Edited February 28, 2020 by Bionic_Flea

[Galaxy Brain]

Dark Consumption is getting less boost from +Dam, not the whole set.

 

Also, Touch of Fear says it does damage when you look at the detailed info.... bug?