POLL: Which Support sets need work?

[Replacement]

I considered adding a 3rd question of "Which set is overperforming?" with Kinetics as the only option as a joke, but I've decided that will create too much actual rancor.

 

I saw Bartacus' Poison thread and it reminded me that I've been wanting to see our community self-organize and prioritize which things are kind of in the worst spots, and hopefully the developers can use this to find a decent cross-section of work-to-reward ratio (as I say at least once every 48 hours, Traps would be mightily improved by simply playing with recharges and durations).  I mean, perhaps Trick Arrow really is garbage (I honestly wouldn't know.  I've only looked at it in Mids'), but if another set is similarly looked down upon and yet is very easy to fix, that's something we should probably try to bubble to the surface.

 

 So anyway, vote away, and feel free to post specific minor tweaks to sets -- large-scale changes, I beg you create standalone threads for, like the aforementioned Bartacus Poison thread.

Edited March 13, 2020 by Replacement

[Chris24601]

Note for the voting; your poll REQUIRES you to select one set that needs just minor tweaks to be counted. I don't particularly think any of them do; they're either good enough/amazing or nigh useless... so subtract one from pain domination's final results.

 

The one I'll specifically bring attention to at this point is Trick Arrow, a set that is utterly obsoleted compared to the blaster's Tactical Arrow set which does most of the same things with damage and more personal survability too.

 

Comparable powers are (Trick vs. Tactical); 

Net Arrow (t1) vs. Electrified Net Arrow (t1): The second is Net Arrow, but with t1 energy DoT (which massively helps with dealing damage to things archery is normally weak too).

Flash Arrow (t2) vs. Flash Arrow (t5): the exact same power. Debuff scalars give a slight edge to defenders, but blasters tie controllers, corruptors and beat MMs.

Glue Arrow (t3) vs. Toxic Glue Arrow (t2): Tactical's is Glue Arrow, but with toxic DoT*

Ice Arrow (t4) vs. Ice Arrow (t3): The same, but with cold damage DoT.

EMP Arrow (t9) vs. ESD Arrow (t8): About half the duration of EMP (9.54s vs. 22,35s) but less than a third of the recharge (90s vs. 300s).

 

Trick Arrow's uniques are;

Poison Gas Arrow (t5): AoE sleep.

Acid Arrow (t6): Single Target -DEF and -RES.

Disruption Arrow (t7): Location-based AoE -RES.

Oil Slick Arrow (t8): Knockdown patch you can set on fire if you have another set that deals fire or energy damage.

 

Tactical Arrow instead gets;

Upshot (t4): Build-up with +recharge too.

Eagle Eye (t6): +Acc, +Per, +Regen and +Rec. on a 0 endurance toggle.

Agility (t7): Auto +Recharge and +Spd.

Gymnastics (t9): Toggle +DEF, immobilize and knockdown protection, and 83% status resistance.

 

Throw in a much higher damage scalar and defiance for both stacking damage and using electrified net arrow and toxic glue arrow even when mezzed and there's just no reason to go corruptor or defender if you want an archery themed character (whether your blast set is archery or not).

 

The first that I think would help is to just add the tac arrow versions of the shared powers. This would also give the set its own internal source of fire/energy damage to ignite its oil slick (so also a slight buff to the Oil Slick power).

 

The second thing I'd do is is take a cue from Trap's Poison Trap and give Poison Gas Arrow a -Regen effect to make it a better AV killer and make-up for the fact that the toxic damage now done by the glue arrow makes stacking the two an issue (whereas with lingering -Regen it would still be worth stacking both on the same target).

[Solarverse]

I picked any power set that has a toggle debuff as a minor tweak because I feel that it takes too long to cast, most mobs are already dead before you can finish, especially as a /Rad. I picked what pretty much everyone else picked for the major rehaul/buff section. Bubbles, TA, Poison, although I felt that Sonic was more leaning toward the minor tweak section, seems most disagree with me.

[Replacement]

4 hours ago, Chris24601 said:

Note for the voting; your poll REQUIRES you to select one set that needs just minor tweaks to be counted.

Corrected, and thank you for pointing out the oversight.

[MTeague]

I do not believe it is possible to get to a situation where the vast majority of the playerbase is contented that every set performs approximately equally as well, and that none of them need work, without homogenizing them to the point that they lose any uniqueness.  I believe some sets will ALWAYS be considerd to "need work".

 

Even if which sets are considered horrible changes over time as changes get made to them. 

There will always be a few that are labeled dogs.

Edited March 14, 2020 by MTeague

[Galaxy Brain]

46 minutes ago, MTeague said:

I do not believe it is possible to get to a situation where the vast majority of the playerbase is contented that every set performs approximately equally as well, and that none of them need work, without homogenizing them to the point that they lose any uniqueness.  I believe some sets will ALWAYS be considerd to "need work".

 

Even if which sets are considered horrible changes over time as changes get made to them. 

There will always be a few that are labeled dogs.

While true, we can at least make sure each set has a niche/ fun factor that isnt eclipsed by other sets. That alone will ensure they are all viable.

[Replacement]

2 hours ago, MTeague said:

I do not believe it is possible to get to a situation where the vast majority of the playerbase is contented that every set performs approximately equally as well, and that none of them need work, without homogenizing them to the point that they lose any uniqueness.  I believe some sets will ALWAYS be considerd to "need work".

 

Even if which sets are considered horrible changes over time as changes get made to them. 

There will always be a few that are labeled dogs.

Sure, but that doesn't rob this process of value. 

 

Case and point: I'm a bit surprised to see so many people putting Empathy in the "minor tweaks" column. I expected it to at least come close to Force Fields in the major overhaul category.

 

So if I went and made threads saying "we all know Empathy is a one-trick pony that fades into the background when you have more than 2 allies," I would be projecting a consensus that isn't there. (And don't anyone dare use this example against me - the point isn't that I would do this, but that people do every day).

 

Even subjective opinion graduates from anecdote to data once you have enough of it. 

[Redlynne]

22 minutes ago, Replacement said:

Even subjective opinion graduates from anecdote to data once you have enough of it.

Also known as the Wisdom of Crowds (or words to that effect).

[Replacement]

Apologies for the bump.  I've inserted a graph of our "flash poll" results below.  

NOTE: there is some small level of inaccuracy here, and it's hardly representative of our entire population, but I believe it's still indicative of where the assorted sets are.  It's my hope this helps guide discussion about where given sets stand and what their priorities should be for getting balance passes.

(As an example of inaccuracy, I'm playing a /Poison controller currently and keenly looking forward to adjustments, yet I managed to forget to vote for them in either category).

 

There is a high chance you'll see more polls in a similar light for other sets that don't have a clear consensus already established.

 

 

If, for some reason, this bump sets off a new round of significant additional voting, I'll add a second graph.

Edited March 22, 2020 by Replacement

[ArchVileTerror]

Heh heh heh.  "Kinetics."

[Replacement]

My gut reaction, seeing the results:

My personal surprises, here, were seeing how high Sonic Resonance was, and comparatively low Empathy was.  I basically expected them to be swapped (but still middle of the pack on the "bad" scale).

 

Not exactly scientific, but I like that looking at this graph (as it currently stands), we can organize these into "suck tiers" where first place is the worst place to be.

Priority 1: Force Field and Trick Arrow (to the surprise of literally no one)

Priority 2: Poison, Sonic, Traps

Priority 3: Empathy and Pain Domination - hopefully, if we ever get to this point, the buffs will be divergent to give them some mechanical identity.

 

It's probably a good thing I did this poll when I did, before the beta changes cause a "review-bombing" effect on Dark Miasma (bug fixes will cause minor nerfs to non-Defender Dark Supports).

[Zepp]

I think "fixing" trick arrow and traps  needs to be done very carefully. These two sets are non-traditional support sets, and it may be that they are being assessed by people who want them to be more like traditional support sets rather than being treated as their own sets.

Force Field and Sonic, as well, fill a specific gap. The issue with these is not that they are not performing well, but that their function is minimized because of incarnates. They could use more self-buffing and some more variety, but they perform very well pre-incarnate.

 

I'm actually surprised that the heal sets are so low on people's priority lists. Perhaps that is because even though they provide less support than FF & Sonic, you can see them working.

[WindDemon21]

FF: detention field should be a hold, repulsion bomb should have it's radius increased to at least 20ft, and guaranteed mag 2 stun, and force bolt should be changed to a location based slow field with -damage/-resistance/-defense with less values than freezing rain/sleet obviously. (think like hami's goo). Add +regen or proccing +absorb with a decent value/duration to dispersion bubble. Deflection/insulation/dispersion bubble should boost +defense debuff resistance. 40% for dispersion, and 20% for ally shields. Give psy defense to the shields.

 

TA: flash needs it's debuff increased to like 20% for defenders and 15% for secondaries. Glue arrow NEEDS to be location based. Oill slick should have it's recharge lessened to 120s, acid arrow needs it's radius increased to 15ft, PGA needs to work just like traps poison trap, hold that refreshes not sleep, and the -damage instead of -regen. Then turn emp arrow into a ST -end/-rec/-regen debuff with a minor energy damage so it can be used to set off oil slick, and a stun component. like 30s rech, since PGA would now work like poison trap for traps. Entangling arrow should be moved to tier 2 so you are not forced to take it on secondaries especially trollers.

 

Cold: Frostwork needs to become a pbaoe easily permable buff that also has regen, something like 3 minute rech 2 minute duration with 150% base regen. Needs the shields to have their fire/cold resist unenhanceable so powerboost works on them, and to also provide fire/cold defense in glacial shield. Snow Storm should be tier 1 and infrigidate to tier 3.

 

Poison: needs a lot of help, to start it's envenom/weaken needs to have a larger radius of 15ft, and the full value of the debuffs go to all enemies it hits. then it also needs the tier 9 to be a location based debuff, not a pbaoe toggle that all too easily gets toggled off, and makes you go/stay in melee where that happens more and makes it so you can't use the cone slow effectively. I would also be happy if it had the puke animation like when poison trap makes enemies puke, and leaves a big puke pile on the ground that is the debuff area lol.

 

Nature: really just needs wild bastion to be on a much shorter timer so the absorb actually gets used properly, something like a 90s recharge with 30 second duration. The regen on wild growth needs to be upped to 150%, and lifegiving spores desparately needs a buff. It needs to be location based, not a toggle, and it's radius needs increased to 25 or 30 feet, and it's values and proc  rate needs increased, to about double the value, and 2s not 4 seconds for the proc rate. Move Regrowth to tier 1.

 

Sonic. Needs the ST intangible to be a hold with -res, sonic siphon needs to have a faster animation and also a little -defense, sonic repulsion, as well as ff/kin knockback toggle needs to not take more end per enemy, and have it's sound reduced, liquefy needs to have a shorter recharge of 90 seconds. Give slow/end drain resistance to sonic dispersion (40%) sonic haven (50%). Add knockback protection to clarity. Fix the proc rate and "miss"es on sonic repulsion, currently it's bugged and is missing where it should be autohit. Increase the values of the resists. For the same effective mitigation as defense, resists need to be twice the value (actually +5% but you can't get there). The resist should be for a defender 30% ally, 20% dispersion. However given how resist plays in this game and that everyone can get maneuvers etc, I would say a fair value would be for defenders 26.25% ally, and 20% for dispersion. Then for secondaries 20% ally, and 15% dispersion.

 

Empathy: Should have absorb pain removed, and maybe actually be a high level self procing absorb like a better version of that one sorcery power.

 

Pain: should have it's resist/to hit values increased for the pbaoe buff, faster procing/more regen on it's heal toggle with a wider radius.

 

Rad: Lingering radiation should have a 60s recharge, non stackable of course. Fallout should have more use on a live ally or enemy. Empulse should have a shorter recharge with no -recovery.

 

Thermal: 90s recharge for melt armor, 60s for heat exhaustion.

 

Time: The +recovery on chrono shift should last it's full duration. Move Temporal Mending to tier 1. Extend duration of Temporal Selection to 4 minutes.

 

Traps: trip mine/time bomb should get the /dev treatment. Seeker drones should have a wider radius and target cap of 20ft/16 targets and increased -to hit to  at least 10% for defenders/7.5% for trollers. Caltrops should be the tier 1 and the immobilize should be tier 2 with a damage component.

 

Storm: should have the fear removed from tornado, gale and O2 boost should be swapped so O2 boost is tier 1.

 

Kinetics: have ID do resistance to all and at least have the knockback protection go to all. Increase duration of sb/id to 4 minutes. Add a small -defense to siphon power/fulcrum so that we can slot IO's in them, or at least come up with universal buff/debuff sets to use in -res/+damage powers.

 

All versions of clear mind should be taoe like shields are.

 

 

Edited March 28, 2020 by WindDemon21

[AgentForest]

Poisons:

• It would be nice if for Poisons, the first two click debuffs had larger AoEs.  Even if it meant the AoE debuff was weaker than the target you shot directly, it just feels awkward to shoot a group of enemies and only get a third of them if you're lucky.
• Why is the Mastermind T9 a temporary toggle?  Defenders, Corruptors, and Controllers all put the toggle on themselves as long as they like, but Masterminds put it on a pet, but it expires.  Can theirs just work like everyone else's?
• The T1 heal is GARBAGE.  At least O2 Boost can protect people from end drains.  Alkaloid is just... so bad.  It's as weak as the AoE heal for Empathy (half the strength of the single-target heal from that set), but still costs as much as they do.  This is only made worse by the fact that Corruptors and Controllers have to grab it by default, lol.

Forcefields:

• Force Bolt should deal more damage, with a bonus against absorb shields.  It should also penetrate and lower enemy defenses.
• Containment Field should apply a hold with an "absorb" health bar to it.  If you break that bar, the hold ends, but the barrier implodes, dealing that damage as well as a bonus burst of damage to the target.  Say for example Containment field creates a 100 HP barrier on the target.  If you deal 100 damage to them before the hold ends, the enemy takes 150 damage, and is freed.  Obviously those numbers are just for illustration, not necessarily balance tested.  This works well paired with the new "bonus damage to barriers" effect granted to Force Bolt, allowing you to more easily pop containment fields.
• Repulsion Field should work more like Force Bubble and Hurricane, shoving enemies away slowly, with a knockdown chance, but instead of applying a debuff to accuracy and range like Hurricane does, it should apply a debuff to damage and recharge, since the repulsion field pushes on their attacks lowering the velocity.
• Force Bubble should be a single-target powerful absorb shield, maybe with some regen and resistances added in, but mainly just the absorption.  However, when you pick up this power, your Dispersion Bubble also gains a weak absorb-over-time effect, like Frigid Shield and Instant Regeneration for Sentinels, but to all people protected by your bubble.  It's small, but constantly replenishing if in range.

Sonic Resonance:

• Some similar tweaks like with Forcefields would help here.  Make the containment field type power breakable for bonus damage or something.
• The T9 power is basically just Earthquake with meaningless damage and a longer cooldown.  Why?  Just make it an earthquake clone and replace the Sonic Repulsion power since that's pretty useless.
• Give it a new T9 power that allows for some sort of emergency protection, like my Force Bubble suggestion.  Maybe a toggle placed on a target that makes them reverberate with energy, causing a rapid heal-over-time on that target, and half that to targets near them.  Make it a short cooldown so you can just move it to where it's needed as a sort of noise therapy thing.

[Indystruck]

A lot of support sets have basically been overshadowed by Incarnate abilities. Debuff sets are alright, and Kin for immediately capping damage obviously. But when everyone in a group has some combination of Barrier (def/res cap), Ageless (+end/recharge), and Rebirth (+regen/max HP) then the sets that do those and nothing else tend to suffer. And that'd be Empathy, Pain Dom, Force Field, and Sonic Resonance. Everything Empathy and Pain Dom do can be done in essentially one cast of Barrier and one cast of Rebirth. 

 

Poison's an outlier here because I think the main issue there is a lack of real AoE abilities (outside of Poison Trap, which does -end/rec, which is a laughable debuff when it's the only -end/-rec in the set) and Neurotoxic Breath which... can technically hold, I guess.

[Replacement]

On 3/22/2020 at 11:21 PM, Zepp said:

I think "fixing" trick arrow and traps  needs to be done very carefully. These two sets are non-traditional support sets, and it may be that they are being assessed by people who want them to be more like traditional support sets rather than being treated as their own sets.

This is why I enjoy seeing the stacked bar graph. My questions weren't worded perfectly, but we can still measure trends. The consensus is that Trick Arrow is severely underperforming, but I have a feeling a couple very simple tweaks could greatly improve the set.  A little doing a lot.

 

On the flip side, I feel like FF needs new mechanisms added to make it competitive, but I trust if HC sees an opportunity to fix a massively flawed set with some simple tweaks, they will.

 

I guess all I'm really saying is that I'm open to seeing how far even simple adjustments go to make a set feel better; it doesn't need to include totally rewriting a set into a traditional support set.

[Naraka]

For Force Field, I think the most changes going into these sets should seek to keep it's relatively similar style and keep its effects conceptually sensical.  For example, +regen or -regen doesn't make sense for Force Field as a concept.  -Res also doesn't really make sense for Force Field.  Rather than patch up Force Field with pity effects, changes should embrace the set's concept and not cut corners.  So the changes I'd suggest:

 

Dispersion Bubble - [Add PBAoE +absorb over time]

Not much and keep it passive as the set's style is a more passive style of play.  Dispersion Bubble would slowly apply +absorb to all within its range.  Around every 8seconds, it'd give around 3% +absorb.  Might sound crappy but the duration of that absorb is long (like 3 min) and can stack upwards of 25%.  So in about 1 min, it will max out (and it applies to the user too) and with slotting, it'd max out faster.  It's not mean to be reactionary, but more aimed to aid the user with a bit of supplementary mitigation to those around them, i.e. this isn't meant to be a "game changer".  That's for the other abilities...

 

Anchoring Field - [Replaces Detention Field; same effect just as a toggle with AoE effects around the target]

Anchoring Field is a toggle target Untouchable that can be held for up to 15sec.  The target is untouchable and can only affect self and is immobilized.  Foes within 15ft of the target will be snared and be drawn to the target (vectored repel or vectored knock- if that is in the works).  If the pull effect isn't possible, an area of -movement and low mag immobilize for the duration of the toggle still works.  The only contention may be that current Detention Field lasts up to 30sec and this would half that which may rub some people the wrong way...perhaps if the toggle isn't deactivated after 15sec, the toggle will turn off after casting another untouchable effect that lasts an additional 15sec.

 

Repulsion Field - [Add short duration self +protection to knockback, -fly, repel, sleep, hold, immobilize, disorient and NOT confuse or fear upon turning on]

Similar to Faraday Cage, activating Repulsion Field can be done while mezzed thus breaking away from the effects.  The duration is short (around 15-20sec or so) but all other effects are the same.  The disadvantage of this is it might rub users the wrong way if they usually just keep Repulsion Field running.  Personally, I don't see the purpose of always running it.  I tend to turn it on when I want to do surgical positioning which would make it a perfect if I can get some short term mez protection for it.

 

Repulsion Bomb - [Throwback to old functionality: castable on allies, adds smashing damage to all their attacks]

Rather than a standard +damage power, I figure borrowing the concept of Electrical Affinity's Amp Up mechanic to give an ally the ability to unleash chain lightning with their attacks, Repulsion Bomb, when cast on an ally will instead form offensive energy shields for that ally and allies withing 15ft that will flare up every time their perform an attack.  It adds smashing damage to their attacks for a short time.  That damage is enhanceable by the target's damage bonuses...so it's a buff that will always add damage even if outside buffs cap that ally's damage.  The duration is very short (like 8 seconds).

 

Force Bubble - [Adds 3 temp powers, one to block, one to lock and one to incapacitate]

Similar to the Mystic Flight power that grants you an additional power while you have it toggled, Force Bubble would give access to 3 additional powers (2 toggles and a click) while its active.  Activating any of these powers *adds* and endurance cost to Force Bubble for its duration that cannot be reduced. It would be difficult to manage using these 3 powers and still using other toggles and clicks...basically, it requires your full concentration to manage...unless you have outside assistance to help fuel the energy consumption.

1. Frictionless Field: A click with a long range that puts down an Ice Slick-like patch, 15ft radius TAoE that lasts 30sec
2. Force Wall: A location toggle that erects a wall that cannot be attacked through by friend, foe or yourself.  Foes and allies can, however, walk through it.
3. Force Dome: A location toggle that erects a 15ft dome/sphere. Foes within the dome are completely locked in place (not even repeled by the Force Bubble...so granting them repel resistance and immobilize) but can still attack through the dome.

Personal Force Field - [minor QoL addition]

Simply allow this toggle to turn off the effects (and costs) of all other powers but keep them toggled on, i.e. one could turn force bubble on while PFF is activated, you can set up Force Wall and Force Dome, it have no effect at all until deactivation of PFF.  Everything else, like Anchoring Field or Frictionless Field wouldn't be able to activate until after PFF is deactivated.

[Eldyem]

I've had some minor thoughts about the sets I personally think underperform but I also want to make it clear I personally believe supports in CoH are, as a whole, very strong; I think parity is difficult to achieve, and the focus on underachieving sets - Sonic, Poison, Trick Arrows, Empathy, Traps, Pain Domination, Force Fields seem to be the ones generally agreed on - should be primarily on fixing bad powers rather than trying to make every set as good as Kin/Time/Rad/Cold feel now. (and Storm is its own beast, of course). Not interested in giving my full thoughts on each set but there's some major points with Sonic I think need touched on.

Multiple powers (Sonic Siphon, Disruption Field) are just worse than peer powers. Like, Siphon is -30% res, corrosive enzymes are -25% res and -30ish dmg. Fix that, and then the set still has obscene end costs for what it provides. Fix the numbers on both ends and I think I'd say whatever fix goes to FF should go here - if we're giving absorb, Sonic with absorb could be strong. Also Clarity (and its peer powers) sucks and has no real place in Sonic specifically; I would really like to see it made into a +recovery buff or something (alongside its peer powers honestly). Also, this set is really keyed into providing -res and +res but somehow isn't the best at providing -res, in an AoE or otherwise. It just seems intentionally undertuned as a whole. I'd like numbers adjusted slightly upwards and end costs adjusted way downwards.

Also, Liquefy is simultaneously a godsend and wack which I think speaks volumes about everything wrong with Sonic; the power that does something else from the other ones ends up being really solid just because you're doing anything else.

[Zepp]

Just thought I'd add some suggestions and combine them with a compilation of previous suggestions.

 

---

Cold Domination:

Buff: +Defense, +End, +HP, +Res (F/C)

Debuff: -Spd, -Rech, -Def, -Dmg, -Res, -Reg

 

Damage: None

Assessment: No major issues. This is a classical support set and works as intended. It is a Jack-of-All-Tradesish set, and there are some minor tweaks that could make it better, particularly regarding personal protections.

Compiled Comments:

On 3/25/2020 at 8:34 AM, WindDemon21 said:

Cold: Frostwork needs to become a pbaoe easily permable buff that also has regen, something like 3 minute rech 2 minute duration with 150% base regen. Needs the shields to have their fire/cold resist unenhanceable so powerboost works on them, and to also provide fire/cold defense in glacial shield. Snow Storm should be tier 1 and infrigidate to tier 3.

---

Dark Miasma:

Buff: Rez, +Def, +Res(E/N/P)

Debuff: -Dmg, -ToHit, Hold, Fear

Damage: Moderate via pet

Assessment: This is a survivability set that has a good combination of debuffs and buffs focused on those ends. The primary concern with this set is Black Hole, which needs to be addressed with a broader range of intangibility related adjustments.

Compiled Comments:

---

Empathy:

Buff: Heal, Rez, MezRes

Debuff: None

Damage: only to self

Assessment: This set is from an era pre-inherent fitness and lacks general utility. In order to maintain its character as the heal set and be more useful, it could use some adjustments to key mechanics. It needs to add +HP and +Absorb effects in some powers. It also has high personal cost and no personal support. Recovery Aura and Regeneration Aura could be converted to AoE Team toggles (Recovery with no end cost, and regeneration with .3-.4 end/s cost), possibly adding +HP to Regeneration Aura. Some debuff or damage could be added to help as well.

Compiled Comments:

On 3/25/2020 at 8:34 AM, WindDemon21 said:

Empathy: Should have absorb pain removed, and maybe actually be a high level self procing absorb like a better version of that one sorcery power.

---

Force Fields:

Buff: +Def, MezRes

Debuff: KD, KB, Stun, Isolate

Damage: Low

Assessment: This set is largely unnecessary because of a combination of Pool Powers, IOs, and Incarnate abilities. In addition, the Homecoming cultural predilection towards fits of anti-KB rage, this set is not in a happy place. It is a really good set for pre-50 toons, but endgame it is largely useless.

Detention Field is an isolation power that does not use the intangible mechanic. This is an unpopular mechanic, but could be useful if changed into a toggle.
Repulsion Field and Force Bubble together are less useful than Hurricane alone.
Repulsion Bomb is a great candidate for KB-Vector experimentation. In particular, having an implosion following the repulsion would make this power much more popular.

Compiled Comments:

On 3/25/2020 at 8:34 AM, WindDemon21 said:

FF: detention field should be a hold, repulsion bomb should have it's radius increased to at least 20ft, and guaranteed mag 2 stun, and force bolt should be changed to a location based slow field with -damage/-resistance/-defense with less values than freezing rain/sleet obviously. (think like hami's goo). Add +regen to dispersion bubble. Deflection/insulation/dispersion bubble should boost +defense debuff resistance. 40% for dispersion, and 20% for ally shields.

On 3/25/2020 at 2:26 PM, AgentForest said:

• Force Bolt should deal more damage, with a bonus against absorb shields.  It should also penetrate and lower enemy defenses.
• Containment Field should apply a hold with an "absorb" health bar to it.  If you break that bar, the hold ends, but the barrier implodes, dealing that damage as well as a bonus burst of damage to the target.  Say for example Containment field creates a 100 HP barrier on the target.  If you deal 100 damage to them before the hold ends, the enemy takes 150 damage, and is freed.  Obviously those numbers are just for illustration, not necessarily balance tested.  This works well paired with the new "bonus damage to barriers" effect granted to Force Bolt, allowing you to more easily pop containment fields.
• Repulsion Field should work more like Force Bubble and Hurricane, shoving enemies away slowly, with a knockdown chance, but instead of applying a debuff to accuracy and range like Hurricane does, it should apply a debuff to damage and recharge, since the repulsion field pushes on their attacks lowering the velocity.
• Force Bubble should be a single-target powerful absorb shield, maybe with some regen and resistances added in, but mainly just the absorption.  However, when you pick up this power, your Dispersion Bubble also gains a weak absorb-over-time effect, like Frigid Shield and Instant Regeneration for Sentinels, but to all people protected by your bubble.  It's small, but constantly replenishing if in range.

13 hours ago, Naraka said:

For Force Field, I think the most changes going into these sets should seek to keep it's relatively similar style and keep its effects conceptually sensical.  For example, +regen or -regen doesn't make sense for Force Field as a concept.  -Res also doesn't really make sense for Force Field.  Rather than patch up Force Field with pity effects, changes should embrace the set's concept and not cut corners.  So the changes I'd suggest:

 

Dispersion Bubble - [Add PBAoE +absorb over time]

Not much and keep it passive as the set's style is a more passive style of play.  Dispersion Bubble would slowly apply +absorb to all within its range.  Around every 8seconds, it'd give around 3% +absorb.  Might sound crappy but the duration of that absorb is long (like 3 min) and can stack upwards of 25%.  So in about 1 min, it will max out (and it applies to the user too) and with slotting, it'd max out faster.  It's not mean to be reactionary, but more aimed to aid the user with a bit of supplementary mitigation to those around them, i.e. this isn't meant to be a "game changer".  That's for the other abilities...

 

Anchoring Field - [Replaces Detention Field; same effect just as a toggle with AoE effects around the target]

Anchoring Field is a toggle target Untouchable that can be held for up to 15sec.  The target is untouchable and can only affect self and is immobilized.  Foes within 15ft of the target will be snared and be drawn to the target (vectored repel or vectored knock- if that is in the works).  If the pull effect isn't possible, an area of -movement and low mag immobilize for the duration of the toggle still works.  The only contention may be that current Detention Field lasts up to 30sec and this would half that which may rub some people the wrong way...perhaps if the toggle isn't deactivated after 15sec, the toggle will turn off after casting another untouchable effect that lasts an additional 15sec.

 

Repulsion Field - [Add short duration self +protection to knockback, -fly, repel, sleep, hold, immobilize, disorient and NOT confuse or fear upon turning on]

Similar to Faraday Cage, activating Repulsion Field can be done while mezzed thus breaking away from the effects.  The duration is short (around 15-20sec or so) but all other effects are the same.  The disadvantage of this is it might rub users the wrong way if they usually just keep Repulsion Field running.  Personally, I don't see the purpose of always running it.  I tend to turn it on when I want to do surgical positioning which would make it a perfect if I can get some short term mez protection for it.

 

Repulsion Bomb - [Throwback to old functionality: castable on allies, adds smashing damage to all their attacks]

Rather than a standard +damage power, I figure borrowing the concept of Electrical Affinity's Amp Up mechanic to give an ally the ability to unleash chain lightning with their attacks, Repulsion Bomb, when cast on an ally will instead form offensive energy shields for that ally and allies withing 15ft that will flare up every time their perform an attack.  It adds smashing damage to their attacks for a short time.  That damage is enhanceable by the target's damage bonuses...so it's a buff that will always add damage even if outside buffs cap that ally's damage.  The duration is very short (like 8 seconds).

 

Force Bubble - [Adds 3 temp powers, one to block, one to lock and one to incapacitate]

Similar to the Mystic Flight power that grants you an additional power while you have it toggled, Force Bubble would give access to 3 additional powers (2 toggles and a click) while its active.  Activating any of these powers *adds* and endurance cost to Force Bubble for its duration that cannot be reduced. It would be difficult to manage using these 3 powers and still using other toggles and clicks...basically, it requires your full concentration to manage...unless you have outside assistance to help fuel the energy consumption.

1. Frictionless Field: A click with a long range that puts down an Ice Slick-like patch, 15ft radius TAoE that lasts 30sec
2. Force Wall: A location toggle that erects a wall that cannot be attacked through by friend, foe or yourself.  Foes and allies can, however, walk through it.
3. Force Dome: A location toggle that erects a 15ft dome/sphere. Foes within the dome are completely locked in place (not even repeled by the Force Bubble...so granting them repel resistance and immobilize) but can still attack through the dome.

Personal Force Field - [minor QoL addition]

Simply allow this toggle to turn off the effects (and costs) of all other powers but keep them toggled on, i.e. one could turn force bubble on while PFF is activated, you can set up Force Wall and Force Dome, it have no effect at all until deactivation of PFF.  Everything else, like Anchoring Field or Frictionless Field wouldn't be able to activate until after PFF is deactivated.

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Kinetics:

Buff: +Dmg, +Spd, +Rech, +Rec

Debuff: -Dmg, -Spd, -Rech, -End, KB

Damage: None

Assessment: A very popular set for good reason. It helps with speeding up combat and mobility. Repel (because of anti-KB bias and high End cost) and Inertial Reduction (because, while fun, it is not that useful in combat) seem to be the less popular powers. The only weakness of the set is a lack of good IOs. It would also be nice if Speed Boost were a Team AoE...

Compiled Comments:

On 3/25/2020 at 8:34 AM, WindDemon21 said:

Kinetics: have ID do resistance to all and at least have the knockback protection go to all. Increase duration of sb/id to 4 minutes. Add a small -defense to siphon power/fulcrum so that we can slot IO's in them, or at least come up with universal buff/debuff sets to use in -res/+damage powers.

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Nature Affinity:

Buff: Heal, Absorb, Rez, +Reg, +Res, +End, +Dmg, +ToHit

Debuff: -Res, -Dmg, -ToHit, -Regen, Hold

Damage: None

Assessment: This set combines the best aspects of Dark Miasma and Empathy for a set that is fundamentally really good.

Compiled Comments:

On 3/25/2020 at 8:34 AM, WindDemon21 said:

Nature: really just needs wild bastion to be on a much shorter timer so the absorb actually gets used properly, something like a 90s recharge with 30 second duration. The regen on wild growth needs to be upped to 150%, and lifegiving spores desparately needs a buff. It needs to be location based, not a toggle, and it's radius needs increased to 25 or 30 feet, and it's values and proc  rate needs increased, to about double the value, and 2s not 4 seconds for the proc rate. Move Regrowth to tier 1.

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Pain Domination:

Buff: Heal, +Dmg, +ToHit, +Res, +Per, +Rech, +Spd, +Regen, +Rec

Debuff: -Res, -Def

Damage: only to self

Assessment: The redside version of Empathy. It is in a better spot than Empathy atm, but could use some more debuffs, a touch of absorb, and +HP.

Compiled Comments:

On 3/25/2020 at 8:34 AM, WindDemon21 said:

Pain: should have it's resist/to hit values increased for the pbaoe buff, faster procing/more regen on it's heal toggle with a wider radius.

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Poison:

Buff: Heal, Rez, +Res(C,T), Mez Res

Debuff: -Res, -Def, -Regen, -Heal, -Dmg, -ToHit, -Spd, -Rech, -End, -Rec, Hold

Damage: Moderate

Assessment: This is the Jack-of-all-Trades Debuff set. It is really good if you know how to pick your poison, but it could use some tweaks, as stated below. I would add that Alkaloid should be either a TAoE or a PBAoE to make it worthwhile.

Compiled Comments:

On 3/25/2020 at 8:34 AM, WindDemon21 said:

Poison: needs a lot of help, to start it's envenom/weaken needs to have a larger radius of 15ft, and the full value of the debuffs go to all enemies it hits. then it also needs the tier 9 to be a location based debuff, not a pbaoe toggle that all too easily gets toggled off, and makes you go/stay in melee where that happens more and makes it so you can't use the cone slow effectively. I would also be happy if it had the puke animation like when poison trap makes enemies puke, and leaves a big puke pile on the ground that is the debuff area lol.

On 3/25/2020 at 2:26 PM, AgentForest said:

• It would be nice if for Poisons, the first two click debuffs had larger AoEs.  Even if it meant the AoE debuff was weaker than the target you shot directly, it just feels awkward to shoot a group of enemies and only get a third of them if you're lucky.
• Why is the Mastermind T9 a temporary toggle?  Defenders, Corruptors, and Controllers all put the toggle on themselves as long as they like, but Masterminds put it on a pet, but it expires.  Can theirs just work like everyone else's?
• The T1 heal is GARBAGE.  At least O2 Boost can protect people from end drains.  Alkaloid is just... so bad.  It's as weak as the AoE heal for Empathy (half the strength of the single-target heal from that set), but still costs as much as they do.  This is only made worse by the fact that Corruptors and Controllers have to grab it by default, lol.

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Radiation Emission:

Buff: Heal, Rez, +Spd, +Rech, +Rec, +Dmg, +Mez Res

Debuff: -Def, -ToHit, -Dmg, -Res, -Spd, -Rech, -Regen, -End, Hold

Damage: Moderate to Robots

Assessment: A full-spectrum survivability buff/debuff set. It does a good job of covering all the bases and does not require much thought. Fallout and EM Pulse feel archaic. EM Pulse could use minor damage to non-Robots in addition to crash removal.

Compiled Comments:

On 3/25/2020 at 8:34 AM, WindDemon21 said:

Rad: Lingering radiation should have a 60s recharge, non stackable of course. Fallout should have more use on a live ally or enemy. Empulse should have a shorter recharge with no -recovery.

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Sonic Resonance:

Buff: +Res, Mez Res

Debuff: -Res, -Toit, -Def, Hold, KB, KD, Isolate

Damage: Low

Assessment: This is the resistance version of Force Field. It is very specialized, but IOs and Pool Powers don't hit it as hard as FF. It could use some expanded debuffs and maybe a heal to make it more appealing.

Sonic Cage is an isolation power that does not use the intangible mechanic. This is an unpopular mechanic, but could be useful if changed into a toggle.
Sonic Repulsion is a weak version of Hurricane, cast on another player. It could use repel and some sort of debuff.
Liquify could use a bump up to damage and a shorter cooldown.

Compiled Comments:

On 3/25/2020 at 8:34 AM, WindDemon21 said:

Sonic. Needs the ST intangible to be a hold with -res, sonic siphon needs to have a faster animation and also a little -defense, sonic repulsion, as well as ff/kin knockback toggle needs to not take more end per enemy, and have it's sound reduced, liquefy needs to have a shorter recharge of 90 seconds. Give slow/end drain resistance to sonic dispersion (40%) sonic haven (50%). Add knockback protection to clarity. Fix the proc rate and "miss"es on sonic repulsion, currently it's bugged and is missing where it should be autohit.

On 3/25/2020 at 2:26 PM, AgentForest said:

• Some similar tweaks like with Forcefields would help here.  Make the containment field type power breakable for bonus damage or something.
• The T9 power is basically just Earthquake with meaningless damage and a longer cooldown.  Why?  Just make it an earthquake clone and replace the Sonic Repulsion power since that's pretty useless.
• Give it a new T9 power that allows for some sort of emergency protection, like my Force Bubble suggestion.  Maybe a toggle placed on a target that makes them reverberate with energy, causing a rapid heal-over-time on that target, and half that to targets near them.  Make it a short cooldown so you can just move it to where it's needed as a sort of noise therapy thing.

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Storm Summoning:

Buff: Heal, Stealth, Mez Res, +Per, +Def, +Res(F/C/E)

Debuff: -Spd, -Rech, -Fly, -Def, -Res, -Range, -ToHit, -End, KB, Fear, Stun, 

Damage: High

Assessment: Best solo support set out there. The current anti-KB bias means this set loses a lot of slots to KB2KD procs. In addition, Gale and O₂ generally underperform. Gale could use a damage bump or some debuff and O₂ could become a PBAoE.

Compiled Comments:

On 3/25/2020 at 8:34 AM, WindDemon21 said:

Storm: should have the fear removed from tornado, gale and O2 boost should be swapped so O2 boost is tier 1.

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Thermal Radiation:

Buff: Heal, Rez, Mez Res, +Res, +Dmg, +ToHit

Debuff: -Dmg, -End, -Rec, -Regen, -Res, -Def

Damage: None

Assessment: This set is a little bit of a late bloomer. It gets all of its support early and its debuffs late. The T₈ and T₉ powers, however, could use a drop in recharge.

Compiled Comments:

On 3/25/2020 at 8:34 AM, WindDemon21 said:

Thermal: 90s recharge for melt armor, 60s for heat exhaustion.

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Time Manipulation:

Buff: Heal, Mez Res, +Dmg, +Rech, +Regen, +ToHit, +Def, +Per, +End, +Rec

Debuff: -Spd, -Rech, -Regen, -Heal, -Dmg, -Spd, -ToHit, -Def, -Res, Hold

Damage: None

Assessment: Very similar to Kinetics. It is in a better IO situation than Kinetics, but lacks the free travel powers.

Compiled Comments:

On 3/25/2020 at 8:34 AM, WindDemon21 said:

Time: The +recovery on chrono shift should last it's full duration. Move Temporal Mending to tier 1

 

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Traps:

Buff: Mez Res, +Regen, +Res

Debuff: -Regen, -Dmg, -Acc, -Res, -Def, -Spd, -Rech, -Per, -Fly, Immobilize, Hold

Damage: Very High

Assessment: While it has less control than Storm, it is also a very good solo set. It is very solid, but unfortunately its least useful is the oft required T₁. It could use a boost in some of its buff/debuff numbers, but overall it is in a good place.

Compiled Comments:

On 3/25/2020 at 8:34 AM, WindDemon21 said:

Traps: trip mine/time bomb should get the /dev treatment. Seeker drones should have a wider radius and target cap of 20ft/16 targets and increased -to hit to  at least 10% for defenders/7.5% for trollers. Caltrops should be the tier 1 and the immobilize should be tier 2 with a damage component.

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Trick Arrow:

Buff: None

Debuff: -Res, -Def, -Dmg, -ToHit, -Rech, -Spd, -Fly, -Per, Slow, KD, Sleep, Hold

Damage: Low (Moderate v Robots) (High, if paired with fire)

Assessment: This set really needs some way to light Oil Slick Arrow. This set also lacks buffs and its debuffs are overshadowed by other sets. It could use some -Regen and a little more damage overall.

Compiled Comments:

On 3/13/2020 at 8:11 AM, Chris24601 said:

The first that I think would help is to just add the tac arrow versions of the shared powers. This would also give the set its own internal source of fire/energy damage to ignite its oil slick (so also a slight buff to the Oil Slick power).

 

The second thing I'd do is is take a cue from Trap's Poison Trap and give Poison Gas Arrow a -Regen effect to make it a better AV killer and make-up for the fact that the toxic damage now done by the glue arrow makes stacking the two an issue (whereas with lingering -Regen it would still be worth stacking both on the same target).

On 3/25/2020 at 8:34 AM, WindDemon21 said:

TA: flash needs it's debuff increased to like 20% for defenders and 15% for secondaries. Glue arrow NEEDS to be location based. Oill slick should have it's recharge lessened to 120s, acid arrow needs it's radius increased to 15ft, PGA needs to work just like traps poison trap, hold that refreshes not sleep, and the -damage instead of -regen. Then turn emp arrow into a ST -end/-rec/-regen debuff with a minor energy damage so it can be used to set off oil slick, and a stun component. like 30s rech, since PGA would now work like poison trap for traps. Entangling arrow should be moved to tier 2 so you are not forced to take it on secondaries especially trollers.

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General comments:

On 3/25/2020 at 8:34 AM, WindDemon21 said:

All versions of clear mind should be taoe like shields are.

 

 

 

Edited March 26, 2020 by Zepp