Hasten: Make it Inherent, or get rid of it?

[ABlueThingy]

  On 5/2/2020 at 7:32 AM, Zepp said:

So, basically, what I have been saying. Reductions or adjustments to Hasten will disproportionately affect control & support ATs.

I think if you remove T9 armors (most of which are designed as panic buttons rather than keystone powers) it makes that even more clear.

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Honestly I don't think that's really a Hasten thing.  If Hasten is so good that Control/Support need compensatory buffs to them in the event Hasten get nerfed/changed. Then I don't think the issue is actually with Hasten.

 

The issue is a lot of old control/support sets are not designed for the meta of today.  But that's an issue with control/support sets. 

 

 

[Heraclea]

  On 4/9/2020 at 7:07 PM, Greycat said:

Large text does not make an opinion more right.

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For that, you need serifs.

[Greycat]

  On 5/2/2020 at 3:54 PM, Heraclea said:

For that, you need serifs.

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Serif don't like it.

(Rock the casbah, rock the casbah.)

[Myrmidon]

  On 5/2/2020 at 3:56 PM, Greycat said:

Serif don't like it.

(Rock the casbah, rock the casbah.)

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Winner.

[kenlon]

  On 5/2/2020 at 7:32 AM, Zepp said:

I think if you remove T9 armors (most of which are designed as panic buttons rather than keystone powers) it makes that even more clear.

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That would require someone to actually use the t9 armors, though. 

[Galaxy Brain]

  On 5/6/2020 at 7:11 PM, kenlon said:

That would require someone to actually use the t9 armors, though. 

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right, which is why I didnt even factor them in. 

 

Even with capped recharge their uptimes are either still ridiculously short, or set in stone.

[Black Zot]

  On 5/7/2020 at 2:39 AM, Galaxy Brain said:

right, which is why I didnt even factor them in. 

 

Even with capped recharge their uptimes are either still ridiculously short, or set in stone.

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And the crash makes them a suicide button, so it really doesn't benefit anything to change the recharge.

[Solvernia]

When the Fitness pool was so ubiquitous as to where every build had to incorporate it to be viable, it was redesigned as an inherent set of powers.

 

Maybe it's time to do the same with Hasten. No change to the power itself is necessary, as with Fitness; just make it inherent.

Edited May 7, 2020 by Solvernia

[Myrmidon]

  On 5/7/2020 at 9:20 PM, Solvernia said:

When the Fitness pool was so ubiquitous as to where every build had to incorporate it to be viable, it was redesigned as an inherent set of powers.

 

Maybe it's time to do the same with Hasten. No change to the power itself is necessary, as with Fitness; just make it inherent.

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That would give us:

 

- 1 recouped power pick.

- 1 recouped power socket to use elsewhere.

- 8-10 Boosters to use elsewhere.

- A whole lot of power creep (although, is it really power creep if everyone gets it for free?).

[Dahkness]

I’d love to not take hasten! With the new power pool sets out I’d love to not have to jump into 2 speed Pools. 

[Zepp]

If Hasten were made an inherent, what would you replace it with in the Speed pool? A speed defense power like combat jumping?

[Dahkness]

  On 5/8/2020 at 5:04 AM, Zepp said:

If Hasten were made an inherent, what would you replace it with in the Speed pool? A speed defense power like combat jumping?

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Maybe a res -jump toggle that doesn’t let you run a super speed power but slightly increase your run speed slightly. Your legs become so strong 💪 nothing can hold you down! Kind of like combat jumping! 
 

i think this will be nice for pve people trying to get into pvp. Cause toxic PvPers will just spam -jump and watch pve guys QQ

Edited May 8, 2020 by Hops

[Zepp]

  On 5/8/2020 at 5:42 AM, Hops said:

Maybe a res -jump toggle that doesn’t let you run a super speed power but slightly increase your run speed slightly. Your legs become so strong 💪 nothing can hold you down! Kind of like combat jumping! 
 

i think this will be nice for pve people trying to get into pvp. Cause toxic PvPers will just spam -jump and watch pve guys QQ

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I've actually got an interesting idea, working on a thread right now, will be up in 15-30m.

[Dahkness]

  On 5/8/2020 at 5:45 AM, Zepp said:

I've actually got an interesting idea, working on a thread right now, will be up in 15-30m.

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Oh! I’d love to see it! Pleas let know when it’s up!

[Zepp]

  On 5/8/2020 at 5:47 AM, Hops said:

Oh! I’d love to see it! Pleas let know when it’s up!

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Thread is up. Sorry, took longer than I thought.
 

 

[Abysmalyxia]

I am astonished by the level of deceit in this thread.

 

To put it into terms most people I believe can understand.... Hasten, just Hasten, slotted appropriately, is either as good, or better than any tier 4 alpha power. The closest that comes to it in terms of recharge is the Spiritual Core Paragon, which provides a recharge buff of 45% (while buffing stun/healing by 33%)... which does not stack fully with enhancements.

 

We're talking about the ability that's meant to illustrate your first step towards *godhood* and it's matched or superceded by a pool power.

 

City of Heroes Community: "I see nothing of concern here."

[Bill Z Bubba]

  On 5/8/2020 at 11:32 AM, Abysmalyxia said:

I am astonished by the level of deceit in this thread.

 

To put it into terms most people I believe can understand.... Hasten, just Hasten, slotted appropriately, is either as good, or better than any tier 4 alpha power. The closest that comes to it in terms of recharge is the Spiritual Core Paragon, which provides a recharge buff of 45% (while buffing stun/healing by 33%)... which does not stack fully with enhancements.

 

We're talking about the ability that's meant to illustrate your first step towards *godhood* and it's matched or superceded by a pool power.

 

City of Heroes Community: "I see nothing of concern here."

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You obviously aren't reading your own thread. The only deceit here is the one you're laying on yourself in your attempt to ignore your own biased and myopic view.

 

So please attempt to curb the "you don't agree with my opinion because you're stupid" attitude with statements like "To put it into terms most people I believe can understand" when you're the one sitting back ignoring or being incapable of understanding every other way this game offers to get a permanent +70% recharge bonus. Ways that have already been listed in this very thread multiple times by other players.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Bill Z Bubba

[Bill Z Bubba]

  On 5/7/2020 at 9:32 PM, Myrmidon said:

A whole lot of power creep (although, is it really power creep if everyone gets it for free?).

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Think that'd be less power creep and more power jump. Just as removing hasten would be a global nerf.

[Abysmalyxia]

  On 5/8/2020 at 12:31 PM, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

You obviously aren't reading your own thread. The only deceit here is the one you're laying on yourself in your attempt to ignore your own biased and myopic view.

 

So please attempt to curb the "you don't agree with my opinion because you're stupid" attitude with statements like "To put it into terms most people I believe can understand" when you're the one sitting back ignoring or being incapable of understanding every other way this game offers to get a permanent +70% recharge bonus. Ways that have already been listed in this very thread multiple times by other players.

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Have you considered the costs required to get those? How many millions in influence you have to spend? How many slots you have to give up? The enhancements you're not getting?

 

And notice none of the ways involved powers you cast on yourself? Strange you're skipping over all of those.

[Bill Z Bubba]

  On 5/8/2020 at 12:52 PM, Abysmalyxia said:

Have you considered the costs required to get those? How many millions in influence you have to spend? How many slots you have to give up? The enhancements you're not getting?

 

And notice none of the ways involved powers you cast on yourself? Strange you're skipping over all of those.

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The costs? Really? You mean all that fake money that rains from the game in buckets? LotG +recharges are 7.5mil each. They're freaking cheap and a permabuff. You don't even have to have the power on in which they're slotted. It takes far more "effort" to make hasten permanent than it does to get 70% perma recharge from set bonuses.

 

Should we also purge the Force Feedback chance for +100% recharge? I mean, hell, that's just one IO that is more powerful than hasten. It's not even unique. AND it "unfairly" benefits those sets with more knock powers.

 

I wasn't skipping powers from other players, I was ignoring them fully. I look at the game from the soloist view. Anything extra that comes from teaming is just that... extra.

[Zepp]

  On 5/8/2020 at 11:32 AM, Abysmalyxia said:

To put it into terms most people I believe can understand.... Hasten, just Hasten, slotted appropriately, is either as good, or better than any tier 4 alpha power. The closest that comes to it in terms of recharge is the Spiritual Core Paragon, which provides a recharge buff of 45% (while buffing stun/healing by 33%)... which does not stack fully with enhancements.

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If you ignore 2/3s of the power, Hasten is more powerful. Also, if you ignrore that Alpha slots are always on and requires no effort to make it perma, while with Hasten, one generally aims for 122.5% global recharge before Hasten to make it perma. In addition, most builds do not need 122.5% global recharge, and since that is the baseline for perma-Hasten, most builds do not actually need Hasten.

[Galaxy Brain]

  On 5/8/2020 at 2:48 PM, Zepp said:

If you ignore 2/3s of the power, Hasten is more powerful. Also, if you ignrore that Alpha slots are always on and requires no effort to make it perma, while with Hasten, one generally aims for 122.5% global recharge before Hasten to make it perma. In addition, most builds do not need 122.5% global recharge, and since that is the baseline for perma-Hasten, most builds do not actually need Hasten.

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Unless you are a Controller, Dom, decent portion of MMs, Defenders or Corruptors. 

 

Like I showed earlier, those ATs have a good chunk of options that require >100% recharge to become perma, and if it is doable people will shoot for it. This skews the conversation on a global scale as other ATs generally dont have this problem.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Galaxy Brain

[Solvernia]

  On 5/7/2020 at 9:32 PM, Myrmidon said:

That would give us:

 

- 1 recouped power pick.

- 1 recouped power socket to use elsewhere.

- 8-10 Boosters to use elsewhere.

- A whole lot of power creep (although, is it really power creep if everyone gets it for free?).

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Yeah, sounds fine to me.

[tidge]

For totally selfish reasons that I can justify (COMICS!) I'd sooner have Tough be made inherent than Hasten.

[Myrmidon]

  On 5/8/2020 at 3:15 PM, tidge said:

For totally selfish reasons that I can justify (COMICS!) I'd sooner have Tough be made inherent than Hasten.

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Move Weave into its slot in Fighting and I would definitely go for this.