Energy Melee - Does not need

[marcussmythe]

56 minutes ago, tidge said:

Energy Melee simply needs to be the premier single-target attack set. NO GIMMICKS!

 

 

Unless we decide to replace Stun with something else completely (like a valuable toggle, think Conserve Power from the Energy Mastery Epic pool).

 

In many ways it was Stun that caused the Nerf, because of its effect in PVP.

I'm down for that.  I just think the devs may be more willing to give us gimmicks that RESULT in being the premier single target set, rather than giving us raw numbers that get us there.

[Troo]

On 5/19/2020 at 6:52 AM, marcussmythe said:

Implementing the Energy Assault changes, and reverting the EM animation, would be a good start before we 'look around and see where we are'.

I am totally down with this excellent suggestion (w/ minor edit above).

[marcussmythe]

29 minutes ago, Troo said:

I am totally down with this excellent suggestion (w/ minor edit above).

I feel you.  And I get the 'please god dont break it'.

I have some doubts that merely reverting the animation change would be sufficient... but yes, that is the first step.

 

(As an aside, Id love to have some 'alternate' animations for certain attacks. Same animation time, but just give us some variety to choose from.  Many cool animations have been added since EM was created - and I like having choices)

[Troo]

26 minutes ago, marcussmythe said:

'please god dont break it'

+💯

[M3z]

On 5/19/2020 at 4:04 PM, tidge said:

Energy Melee simply needs to be the premier single-target attack set. NO GIMMICKS!

 

 

Unless we decide to replace Stun with something else completely (like a valuable toggle, think Conserve Power from the Energy Mastery Epic pool).

 

In many ways it was Stun that caused the Nerf, because of its effect in PVP.

Although I would love to replace stun with anything (and revert ET animation as well) stun definitely wasn't what caused the nerf (at least on test server or any of the pvp tournaments), it was definitely ET (even though that wasn't overpowered at all, it was just the perception that it was OP but in reality it was one of very few viable melee sets). Also with how mez mechanics work now(post i13), stun wouldn't be OP, it really wouldn't do anything. Which I guess is further argument to replace it with something.

[marcussmythe]

If my wishes were fishes, stun would be replaced by some kind of ground-punch PBAOE.  Punch the ground and the ground explodes, causing knockup?

[tidge]

1 hour ago, M3z said:

Although I would love to replace stun with anything (and revert ET animation as well) stun definitely wasn't what caused the nerf (at least on test server or any of the pvp tournaments), it was definitely ET (even though that wasn't overpowered at all, it was just the perception that it was OP but in reality it was one of very few viable melee sets). Also with how mez mechanics work now(post i13), stun wouldn't be OP, it really wouldn't do anything. Which I guess is further argument to replace it with something.

Interesting, my memory is different. I certainly remember all the PVP griping about Stun (not so much the power Stun, but players getting Stunned)... if there is one thing players hate, it is being 'controlled'. While I never really went for PvP, staggering players were a nice change of pace from the original stunned enemy behavior; frequently a stunned enemy would stagger-dash away at Mach 2... not great for street fighting.

 

I kept Stun on me /EM Tank for a good long time (for sentimental reasons), but as a single-target attack it is such a niche power that even I respec-ed out of it.  I don't mind the secondary Stun effect of Energy Melee at all... it's all the flavor I want. In contrast, I find Street Justice's extra effects are unnecessarily complicated.

 

In terms of re-imagining the Energy Melee set (as opposed to simply adjusting animations and 'damage per animation') I find Stun to be the outlier. My preference is to not replace it with any sort of AoE (assuming EM becomes the premier single-target melee set), but otherwise I'm open to straightforward suggestions. My guess is that many other folks are also skipping Stun, so another ST-attack is probably not warranted. An aura seems like an odd choice, which is why I suggested something else like an Endurance discount or recovery mechanism.

[BrandX]

1 hour ago, tidge said:

Interesting, my memory is different. I certainly remember all the PVP griping about Stun (not so much the power Stun, but players getting Stunned)... if there is one thing players hate, it is being 'controlled'. While I never really went for PvP, staggering players were a nice change of pace from the original stunned enemy behavior; frequently a stunned enemy would stagger-dash away at Mach 2... not great for street fighting.

 

I kept Stun on me /EM Tank for a good long time (for sentimental reasons), but as a single-target attack it is such a niche power that even I respec-ed out of it.  I don't mind the secondary Stun effect of Energy Melee at all... it's all the flavor I want. In contrast, I find Street Justice's extra effects are unnecessarily complicated.

 

In terms of re-imagining the Energy Melee set (as opposed to simply adjusting animations and 'damage per animation') I find Stun to be the outlier. My preference is to not replace it with any sort of AoE (assuming EM becomes the premier single-target melee set), but otherwise I'm open to straightforward suggestions. My guess is that many other folks are also skipping Stun, so another ST-attack is probably not warranted. An aura seems like an odd choice, which is why I suggested something else like an Endurance discount or recovery mechanism.

 

I personally wouldn't want to see Energy Melee get any status effects other than it's stun.

 

As for Stun, the power, I did think the Mag 3 Stun Effect to the main target with AOE around the target of the Stun, wouldn't be bad, if they wanted to add a bit of AOE.  Not thinking upping the damage, but it would allow people to Proc it for Damage.

 

I'd play the set as is, if they ported it to Scrappers, which is how much I want it on Scrappers 🙂

 

Not keen on an aura.  Not caring for any ideas that cause the set to have a new mechanic/gimmick.  The set should be great ST DPS (I won't say #1, but should certainly be near the top of the list...but so should most ST focused sets) and be pom poms of stun.  

[marcussmythe]

50 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

I personally wouldn't want to see Energy Melee get any status effects other than it's stun.

 

As for Stun, the power, I did think the Mag 3 Stun Effect to the main target with AOE around the target of the Stun, wouldn't be bad, if they wanted to add a bit of AOE.  Not thinking upping the damage, but it would allow people to Proc it for Damage.

 

I'd play the set as is, if they ported it to Scrappers, which is how much I want it on Scrappers 🙂

 

Not keen on an aura.  Not caring for any ideas that cause the set to have a new mechanic/gimmick.  The set should be great ST DPS (I won't say #1, but should certainly be near the top of the list...but so should most ST focused sets) and be pom poms of stun.  

As it offers the least AOE, no self heal or end mechanics, and no utility, I see no reason it should not be #1 in single target performance, and by a reasonable margin.

[capricorpse]

I've been playing a Rad/EM tank recently and I love the ST nature of EM.  I do use whirling hands often and i love that one.  but it's cool to be so single target focused, i like variety between sets.  I would love if they took out the Stun power, raised all the other punch's stun capability by a little bit, and threw in Conserve Power.  The Blaster's secondary Energy Manipulation has a lot of stat boosts which I think is a cool part of energy powers to bring to the tanker.

 

This might be crazy, but what if Stun were replaced with Boost Range?  For 20s, your melee attacks can hit at 15 feet or something?  That would stay on-theme, add a unique element (compared to other sets), keep the single-target focus, and require no new animations.  You just dig deep into your energy reserves and extend them beyond normal for a while. 

 

but whatever happens, i really really don't want it to get some combo mechanic.  it's so lame to have my attack chain prescribed for me that much, or feel like so many powers are unskippable. however some secondary building effect could be cool, as long as i can use the basic powers in any order.

[Menelruin]

3 hours ago, marcussmythe said:

If my wishes were fishes, stun would be replaced by some kind of ground-punch PBAOE.  Punch the ground and the ground explodes, causing knockup?

I love this idea, especially if the effect emphasizes ENERGY exploding from the ground, as compared to the generic "the ground got smacked really hard" of Foot Stomp, Mighty Judgement, etc.

[BrandX]

2 hours ago, marcussmythe said:

As it offers the least AOE, no self heal or end mechanics, and no utility, I see no reason it should not be #1 in single target performance, and by a reasonable margin.

I didn't say it shouldn't be, I said I wouldn't say it.  😛

 

The reason I don't want to say it, is because obviously, I like the set 🙂  I made an EM/ Brute for my main, because I wanted EM/ that much, but I just prefer Scrappers.

 

I've been tempted to try EM/WP Brute more than once as another go at it, but still...SCRAPPER!  I may want to get one of every AT to 50, but in the end Scrapper at heart ❤️

[aethereal]

4 hours ago, BrandX said:

 

I personally wouldn't want to see Energy Melee get any status effects other than it's stun.

 

As for Stun, the power, I did think the Mag 3 Stun Effect to the main target with AOE around the target of the Stun, wouldn't be bad, if they wanted to add a bit of AOE.  Not thinking upping the damage, but it would allow people to Proc it for Damage.

No stun damage procs, right?

[Saiyajinzoningen]

change stuns animation to the back punch that STJ uses (just the punch part) and give the original stun animation to ET. Change the damage ratio to 60% energy 40% smashing?

[BrandX]

20 hours ago, aethereal said:

No stun damage procs, right?

No, but changing it to Targeted AOE (Mag 3 Stun on Target with the damage on target and those around the target at current damage) players could slot in the Targetted AOE Damage Procs.

[Troo]

On 5/19/2020 at 1:04 PM, tidge said:

Energy Melee simply needs to be the premier single-target attack set. NO GIMMICKS!

 

 

Yes please

[Golden Azrael]

On 5/17/2020 at 5:59 PM, Troo said:

Energy Melee - Does not need more multi-target attacks (Aura, Cones, AoE, etc).

Energy Melee - Does not need a combo system or mechanic.

Energy Melee - Does not need to be re-envisioned.

 

A single target AT on SOs that can put out the same amount of damage as a proc'd out incarnate, also not needed.

 

I am getting a little nervous about the 'update' turning into changes or more.

 

My ask has always been singular: Revert the Energy Transfer nerf. Simple and quick.

Yes it does.

Yes it does.

Yes it does.  

 

Azrael.

[Golden Azrael]

On 5/21/2020 at 1:34 PM, marcussmythe said:

If my wishes were fishes, stun would be replaced by some kind of ground-punch PBAOE.  Punch the ground and the ground explodes, causing knockup?

There is one terrific emote (not sure what it's called...) where the avatar puts their hands in the ground...and energy erupts.

 

That's what I want from stun...a AoE stun shockwave that does some 'premier' tank damage.  Giving Energy a much needed 2nd AoE attack.

 

Azrael.

[Troo]

48 minutes ago, Golden Azrael said:

Yes it does.

Yes it does.

Yes it does.  

 

Azrael.

This is simply proof that you can't be right all the time. Your other comment, yes please.. but after Energy Transfer.

 

We've got various possible routes:

 

Many folks want Energy Transfer nerf to just get reversed. This should not be game breaking. It won't suddenly leap Energy Melee to the top of the current meta. It may make it popular and folks might play it more. Pretty low impact high return request to at least test.

 

It seems other folks want to completely rework the power set. (These people are wrong.)

Pick your favorite powerset and imagine a vocal few demanding that it be reworked to remove all AOE and giving it a mechanic that makes targets scatter.

Completely reworking a set is not really an option, it'd be more likely to get a totally different powerset.

 

Another group would like to address Whirling Hands or Stun. There may be an opportunity to do that, but it does not need to hold up Energy Transfer. The likely hood Whirling Hands or Stun are looked at may even increase if Energy Transfer is reverted (a bit of a stretch). I love the AoE Stun idea.

 

Another option, do nothing.

 

 

Edited September 3, 2020 by Troo

[srmalloy]

On 5/21/2020 at 5:34 AM, marcussmythe said:

If my wishes were fishes, stun would be replaced by some kind of ground-punch PBAOE.  Punch the ground and the ground explodes, causing knockup?

Something similar to the animation for Radiation Melee's Atom Smasher, then?

[Solarverse]

On 5/17/2020 at 12:59 PM, Troo said:

Energy Melee - Does not need more multi-target attacks (Aura, Cones, AoE, etc).

Energy Melee - Does not need a combo system or mechanic.

Energy Melee - Does not need to be re-envisioned.

 

A single target AT on SOs that can put out the same amount of damage as a proc'd out incarnate, also not needed.

 

I am getting a little nervous about the 'update' turning into changes or more.

 

My ask has always been singular: Revert the Energy Transfer nerf. Simple and quick.

I could not have stated it better myself. I truly hope they are not planning to do anything more than revert Energy Transfer.

[Golden Azrael]

On 9/3/2020 at 3:43 PM, Troo said:

This is simply proof that you can't be right all the time. Your other comment, yes please.. but after Energy Transfer.

 

We've got various possible routes:

 

Many folks want Energy Transfer nerf to just get reversed. This should not be game breaking. It won't suddenly leap Energy Melee to the top of the current meta. It may make it popular and folks might play it more. Pretty low impact high return request to at least test.

 

It seems other folks want to completely rework the power set. (These people are wrong.)

Pick your favorite powerset and imagine a vocal few demanding that it be reworked to remove all AOE and giving it a mechanic that makes targets scatter.

Completely reworking a set is not really an option, it'd be more likely to get a totally different powerset.

 

Another group would like to address Whirling Hands or Stun. There may be an opportunity to do that, but it does not need to hold up Energy Transfer. The likely hood Whirling Hands or Stun are looked at may even increase if Energy Transfer is reverted (a bit of a stretch). I love the AoE Stun idea.

 

Another option, do nothing.

 

 

Right all the time?  It comes easily to me. 😉

 

Plenty more options too.  It just takes a little imagination.

 

Energy Melee.  If I was back in 2004?  I'd see it's mono-steam-piston damage as a bright light.

 

In the reforged HC and the later live patches eg Titan Weapons?

 

It seems old fashioned.

 

I do understand the reverse the nerf cat calls.

I do understand the Domi Energy Melee mechanism calls.  (Good job on that, HC!!!  Home run!  Later power sets were offering chain mechanics eg. In dual blades to add more sizzle to the power sets.  So this is in keeping.)

I do understand the calls to make it the single biggest hitter.

 

Does anything actually take the stun?  Energy hands in the ground.   BzzzBOOM.  Mob go up...then fall down.

 

So...wuzzat.  A reverse nerf, mechanism, big hitter?

 

Fortunately, the HC team have this in hand.  And so far.  Much of what they've done has shown an intimate understanding of what the game and the player need.  Power with restraint.  

 

I'm really looking forward to power passes for Tanks.   Energy Melee has a lot of potency to harness it's past whilst moving forward.

 

That might require a 'few' changes.

 

Azrael.

Edited September 10, 2020 by Golden Azrael

[Troo]

 

[Golden Azrael]

Cheers, Troo.

 

I've re-rolled an En Invul Tank.  And tried testing it just as 'a tank' (seeing how those Tank changes feel on it.)

 

And it's not bad.

 

Not the final solution.

 

But debate on En Melee is good.  Esepcially if it gets HC to give the Power Set a 'pass over.'

 

I'm interested to see where it goes.

 

Azrael.

[Voltor]

Just revert the issue 13 changes to Energy Transfer,  also I believe once upon a time EM had mag 3 stun in its attacks and it was nerfed to mag 2.

 

Revert Energy Transfer back to what it was, and increase the stun mag to 3