Critical Strikes +50% crit rate IO misconceptions.

[Camel]

Hey all! Hope everyone is well and staying safe. I’ve been frequenting the forums more and have noticed some misconceptions about the Critical Strikes +50% crit rate proc and how it functions. Even from some in the community that have years of experience! So I wanted to touch on that a little bit.

 

I’ve seen that quite a few players have been slotting this proc in powers with immense recharge times thinking either,
 

A. It increases the critical rate by 50% for the specific power it is placed in.

 

Or

 

B. Placing it in a high recharge power (ex: Soul Drain, Lightning Rod) guarantees it’s activation.

 

One of these is false (A) and the other (B), while true, is very inefficient and I’ll tell you why. While putting it in a power like Soul Drain or Lightning Rod does indeed increase it’s chance, it doesn’t guarantee it. There will always be a 10% chance, or more, that it will not activate. Meaning you’d have to wait an entire 30+ seconds to even have another 90% or less chance to proc it again. Putting the proc in powers like Smite, Lunge, Hack, Gambler’s Cut, etc opens up the possibility to proc that +50% crit rate as many times as you would use that power in your rotation.
 

This allows attack chains like this to happen: Soul Drain -> Shield Charge -> Smite (proc activates) -> Midnight Grasp -> Smite (proc activates) -> Siphon Life. This is all easily done within 15 seconds for this specific attack chain. That’s 2+ procs every 30s to 1 proc every 30s.

 

Had I slotted that in Soul Drain or Shield Charge that attack chain might look like this: Soul Drain (proc activates) -> Shield Charge -> Smite -> Midnight Grasp (proc ends) -> Smite -> Siphon Life.

 

Or like this: Soul Drain (proc does not activate) -> Shield Charge -> Smite -> Midnight Grasp -> Smite -> Siphon Life.

 

Just wanted to throw this info out there for anyone who may have been doing this! If you don’t care, then that’s okay! It really doesn’t matter for casual players. But if there are any min/maxers out there who are doing either A or B, I hope this helps and opens up new possibilities! The powers I mentioned were only examples. There is a sweet spot, so mess around with the attacks you spam and find where you’d think you would have the most success.

Edited May 21, 2020 by Camel

[Bill Z Bubba]

Yup. Got mine in Followup. Got the passive as the only slot in swipe since it's always on. Nothing like having triplestacked followup AND a massive chance to crit focus and slash. And yes... it's even better with eviscerate in the mix. Blah. (Edit, the triplestack only happens on focus and drops right back to dblstack for slash.)

Edited May 21, 2020 by Bill Z Bubba

[hejtmane]

I moved mine to Midnight Grasp and my ST dps went up a tic over having it in smite

[Olly]

Isn't it actually following the same rules as the other proc IO's?  So that optimal is to slot it in a power that is used every 10 seconds or so? I'd say @Bopperwould probably be the expert on this, I personally am not sure.

[Bopper]

45 minutes ago, Olly said:

Isn't it actually following the same rules as the other proc IO's?  So that optimal is to slot it in a power that is used every 10 seconds or so? I'd say @Bopperwould probably be the expert on this, I personally am not sure.

I'm no expert on this ATO, but my understanding is it is a 4 PPM proc for a 3.25s buff window.

 

Ideally, assuming a single target attack, you want your final Modified Recharge Time + Cast Time to equal 54s/4= 13.5s. That would get you a 90% chance to proc. 

 

If you're using an AoE attack, you will have to factor in the Area Factor into that calculation, but you'll also have a chance to proc from multiple targets. This last point should be clarified as the original post made mention that the chance to not proc is atleast 10% in a power like Soul Drain, however that is not true if you hit multiple targets. Each target hit would have a 10% chance to not proc, so if you hit 2 targets, the chance of not proc'ing becomes 1%, meaning 99% chance to proc. So it can be very reliable in Soul Drain, but it is a long wait between use. Nice alpha strike though.

 

As for Shield Charge, I'm not sure. If the shield charge is a pseudopet, it's possible the chance to proc will only happen on the teleport, which would be capped at 90% using single target click formulas. The AoE would be wasted. Now, I do not know if this is the case, but ive seen procs behave that way with pseudopets and you should keep this in mind.

 

The OP is right in their assessment though, you should look to optimize the uptime of the crit buff window, which could be done with attacks that are used frequently with less reliability as opposed to lesser used attacks with more reliability. Afterall, I've seen Katana use the proc in Gambler's Cut because it was fast, used every other attack, and the bigger attacks get the buff instead of GC. And thats something to consider too, don't waste the proc in an attack that you want to have benefit from the crit. So consider timing of your attack chain and figure out what powers you want to fit into that crit window for optimized DPS.

[Lex Talion]

17 hours ago, Bopper said:

I'm no expert on this ATO, but my understanding is it is a 4 PPM proc for a 3.25s buff window.

2 PPM uncatalyzed, 3 PPM catalyzed

It used to say 4 PPM in the description, but if that was a typo or a nerf I don't remember.

[Camel]

This applies to a lot of procs also, mostly ATO procs. The +Res proc and +Absorb proc for Tankers, +Damage proc for Doninators, even the sucky Defender ATOs. Certain procs are just more efficient in quick recharging, low chancE proc activation powers. Especially the ones you stack. The Scrapper ATO has the most confusion around it, with some reading the text and thinking it gives +50% critical chance to the power it is slotted in. I’m just here to help make uber builds uber-er. 

Edited May 22, 2020 by Camel

[hejtmane]

18 hours ago, Bopper said:

I'm no expert on this ATO, but my understanding is it is a 4 PPM proc for a 3.25s buff window.

 

Ideally, assuming a single target attack, you want your final Modified Recharge Time + Cast Time to equal 54s/4= 13.5s. That would get you a 90% chance to proc. 

 

If you're using an AoE attack, you will have to factor in the Area Factor into that calculation, but you'll also have a chance to proc from multiple targets. This last point should be clarified as the original post made mention that the chance to not proc is atleast 10% in a power like Soul Drain, however that is not true if you hit multiple targets. Each target hit would have a 10% chance to not proc, so if you hit 2 targets, the chance of not proc'ing becomes 1%, meaning 99% chance to proc. So it can be very reliable in Soul Drain, but it is a long wait between use. Nice alpha strike though.

 

As for Shield Charge, I'm not sure. If the shield charge is a pseudopet, it's possible the chance to proc will only happen on the teleport, which would be capped at 90% using single target click formulas. The AoE would be wasted. Now, I do not know if this is the case, but ive seen procs behave that way with pseudopets and you should keep this in mind.

 

The OP is right in their assessment though, you should look to optimize the uptime of the crit buff window, which could be done with attacks that are used frequently with less reliability as opposed to lesser used attacks with more reliability. Afterall, I've seen Katana use the proc in Gambler's Cut because it was fast, used every other attack, and the bigger attacks get the buff instead of GC. And thats something to consider too, don't waste the proc in an attack that you want to have benefit from the crit. So consider timing of your attack chain and figure out what powers you want to fit into that crit window for optimized DPS.

I can confirm Shield Charge and Lightning Rod are pseudo pets and they react different; it's been a long time and  I do not remember all the weird things with pusedo pet but they act differently when it comes to things like this and damage buffs. The pusedo pet reacting differently  is why shield charge on a maxed out furry Brute is still blah compared to scrappers. I do not remember how all the interactions work I may see if i can find the post and discussions about that on wayback machine.  I guess at least people can be aware any psuedo pets have different power interactions with buffs if I find the information I will post it on the forums.

[Uun]

On my MA/Inv I have it slotted in Cobra Strike. It goes off pretty regularly. On my Rad/Rad I have it slotted in Ground Zero. While GZ has an admittedly long recharge and is likely losing me some DPS, it allows me to run into a big group and hit Fusion > Ground Zero > (proc) > Atom Smasher. This leaves nothing standing but a boss or two at low health. I can repeat this about every 40 seconds.

[Bopper]

17 minutes ago, Lex Talion said:

2 PPM uncatalyzed, 3 PPM catalyzed

It used to say 4 PPM in the description, but if that was a typo or a nerf I don't remember.

Thank you for the clarification. I didnt go in game to verify the number but saw the 4 PPM in mids and thought that might be it. We'll have to update the Mids. As for my 54/4 = 13.5s, I guess it should be 54/3 = 18s to retain 90% proc chance in single target attacks.

[Bopper]

7 minutes ago, hejtmane said:

I can confirm Shield Charge and Lightning Rod are pseudo pets and they react different; it's been a long time and  I do not remember all the weird things with pusedo pet but they act differently when it comes to things like this and damage buffs. The pusedo pet reacting differently  is why shield charge on a maxed out furry Brute is still blah compared to scrappers. I do not remember how all the interactions work I may see if i can find the post and discussions about that on wayback machine.  I guess at least people can be aware any psuedo pets have different power interactions with buffs if I find the information I will post it on the forums.

The interaction you're talking about is the fact a pseudopet has a max damage of 400%, so with the Brute's low AT damage modifier capped at 400% is very underwhelming. A scrapper, although still limited by the 400% in the pseudopet, still gets their superior AT damage modifier

[oldskool]

12 minutes ago, Camel said:

This applies to a lot of procs also, mostly ATO procs. The +Res proc and +Absorb proc for Tankers, +Damage proc for Doninators, even the sucky Defender ATOs. Certain procs are just more efficient in quick recharging, low chancE proc activation powers. Especially the ones you stack. 

I generally think this is fair advice.  However, there is enough room in build considerations/combat flow dynamics that a persons mileage may vary.  I've certainly found that putting the +res proc in my quick recharging, low chance powers, was not the direction I wanted to take some of my Tankers.  Sometimes it works well, but it doesn't necessarily always work well.  

[Camel]

1 hour ago, oldskool said:

I generally think this is fair advice.  However, there is enough room in build considerations/combat flow dynamics that a persons mileage may vary.  I've certainly found that putting the +res proc in my quick recharging, low chance powers, was not the direction I wanted to take some of my Tankers.  Sometimes it works well, but it doesn't necessarily always work well.  

True. I guess “quick recharging powers” is pretty vague. As a power that recharges in 1 second will get less proc rate out of a power that recharges in 4. But in a scenario like with the Tanker ATO +Res proc, you’d want it in a power that recharges quick enough to allow the possibility of 3 stacks. There’s a sweet spot, like I mentioned. And every proc has a different one. 

[hejtmane]

2 hours ago, Bopper said:

The interaction you're talking about is the fact a pseudopet has a max damage of 400%, so with the Brute's low AT damage modifier capped at 400% is very underwhelming. A scrapper, although still limited by the 400% in the pseudopet, still gets their superior AT damage modifier

Yea i just found one of the discussions on way back machine  also found the Proc formula for the I24 change

 

I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30))
Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.

 

 

[Strawberry]

If the attack it's used on procs it, does that mean that power crits and then all other powers also have an increased crit % for a short time after or if it procs from the power it's used on, does it mean further powers following it now have an increased crit %? Sorry, somewhat new to Scrappers. So, my apologies if this is an obvious answer.

Edited May 22, 2020 by Strawberry

[Bopper]

1 hour ago, hejtmane said:

Yea i just found one of the discussions on way back machine  also found the Proc formula for the I24 change

 

I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30))
Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.

 

 

That is mostly what we have today. The PPM of some of the i23 procs (not all) were increased in i24+, and the rest of the numbers were incorporated into the version we have now. So the 1.25*PPM (I think I even saw it as 1.5*PPM in some archived places) is actually just PPM now after some procs got buffed.

 

Although I use some algrebra for a slightly easier to read area factor, what you posted as 1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30) is the same as 1 + Radius x (11xArc + 540)/40,000.

[oldskool]

6 minutes ago, Strawberry said:

powers following it now have an increased crit %

This.

[Bopper]

7 minutes ago, Strawberry said:

If the attack it's used on procs it, does that mean that power crits and then all other powers also have an increased crit % for a short time after or if it procs from the power it's used on, does it mean further powers following it now have an increased crit %? Sorry, somewhat new to Scrappers. So, my apologies if this is an obvious answer.

only the powers that follow will have the crit buff. But it's possible you can re-attack with the same power and have it land within the crit-buff window.

[Krazie Ivan]

On 5/21/2020 at 12:32 PM, Bill Z Bubba said:

Nothing like having triplestacked followup AND a massive chance to crit

add a Gauss proc, with ToD & Mako dmg procs ;D 

[DSorrow]

On 5/21/2020 at 11:43 PM, Olly said:

Isn't it actually following the same rules as the other proc IO's?  So that optimal is to slot it in a power that is used every 10 seconds or so? I'd say @Bopperwould probably be the expert on this, I personally am not sure.

I'd add that another important point is to consider which attack you want boosted by the proc. Ideally, you want to fit two attacks into that 3.25s window, one of which is your best DPA attack. For example, in a chain of Radioactive Smash > Radiation Siphon > Radioactive Smash > Devastating Blow you'd get the best proc chance in DB, however, DB is also the attack you'd most want boosted by the proc. In this case, you'd better slot it in Siphon or Smash of which I'd pick Siphon because then you'll always get to activate DB within the window whereas in Smash you could "waste" the proc on Siphon instead.

[ClawsandEffect]

I put it in my Street Justice/Bio's damage aura. It procs pretty regularly when I am stuck in with a bunch of enemies. 

[Olly]

Ok, so to consolidate the comments on this thread. Because of the 3PPM proc rate, the proposed ideal slotting scenario for the Crit Strikes Scrapper ATO is:

1. In a power right before 1-2 "hard hitters" to take advantage of the 3.25 seconds critical strikes window. This gives the hard hitters +50% to hit crit chance per successful proc. (2 stacks = 100%+crit chance)
2. In a power in a dps chain that has a chance to proc 2-3 times, for a double or triple stack. Note this means the time between the last ATO proc in the current chain and the first ATO proc for the next dps attack chain sequence should optimally be 18 seconds or slightly more. This is calculated for single-target attack ATO placement, but works as a nice rule of thumb for other attacks.

 

So, say, given a simple attack chain: GC -> GC -> Wait -> DA -> GD  Chain = 10 sec total time and GD is a hard hitter:

Power			Activation	Recharge	Act+Rx
Gamblers Cut		 .67 sec	 3		 3.67
Gamblers Cut		 .67		 3		 3.67
Wait*			5.5
Divine Avalanche	1.33		 3		 4.33
Golden Dragon		1.83		10		11.83
TOTAL:		     	10 sec			  	20.5 sec

Holding all else equal, the ideal slot placement is on DA. It will have a chance to proc; as well as affect 3 attacks:  GD, GC, and GC.  Please correct if logic is wrong.  

 

* Waiting for GD to recharge. Not an ideal in-game chain!

Edited May 31, 2020 by Olly
Maths is hard

[Zeraphia]

On 5/25/2020 at 6:22 PM, ClawsandEffect said:

I put it in my Street Justice/Bio's damage aura. It procs pretty regularly when I am stuck in with a bunch of enemies. 

I second this and even for Tankers honestly at this point. I've been finding that having it in an aura means it will proc much more often even if it isn't guaranteed (what you want it) than another power interestingly. Lots of people will tell you to put it in a fast activating good AoE or hard ST hitter, but the aura works great for both situations. Lots also would assume auras would nullify it, but if anything they seem to over-proc it.

[Camel]

On 6/11/2020 at 1:49 AM, Zeraphia said:

I second this and even for Tankers honestly at this point. I've been finding that having it in an aura means it will proc much more often even if it isn't guaranteed (what you want it) than another power interestingly. Lots of people will tell you to put it in a fast activating good AoE or hard ST hitter, but the aura works great for both situations. Lots also would assume auras would nullify it, but if anything they seem to over-proc it.

I've been so busy travelling, I forgot I had made this thread. I have yet to test the Critical Strikes set in a damage aura, this intrigues me. I have been having a lot of success with my Fire/Energy Tank and having the +res proc slotted in Blazing Aura, I love having it on auto-pilot so I can focus on using my slow, heavy hitters like Energy Transfer and Total Focus. Glad to know people are having success with the Critical Strikes proc in them too.

[Latex]

I put mine in Katana's Lotus Drops (The AOE) it seems to proc more often in that slot. I typically use; Buildup > Lotus Drops > Golden Dragonfly > Soaring Dragon, not sure if this is optimal though.