So when people say they solo at +4/×8...

[Werner]

I’m finding myself doing a fair bit of +4x8 801.1 on beta, testing out builds. I’m shooting for something that can charge through, taking on full or multiple spawns where they stand, no waiting for cooldowns, no pulling, no retreating, no inspirations. Though after learning it isn’t considered a temp power by the game, I’ve decided I’m willing to run the P2W defense amplifier full time on live, so I’m testing with that now. I tend to be too lazy to spend more than about half an hour in the mission, or maybe I figure it only takes about half an hour to learn what I want to know. My Dark/MA from live made it maybe half an hour, but it was a miracle I didn’t drop. So close so many times, spamming Dark Regeneration. Not the best choice for the task. Now I’ve started fiddling with Shield/MA builds. So far I’ve dropped from being drained of endurance and from cascading defense failure through 65% defense and 67% DDR. Also trying to keep good damage output, so I went Assault rather than Melee. I suppose I could do the Melee, One With the Shield, Melee rotation, but it might just slow me down, and it wouldn’t have saved me from what killed me. Also fiddling with Invuln/MA in Mids, but fear the damage just won’t be there.
 

Anyway, that wasn’t really what I came here to say. I just wanted to declare my love for 801. I think they’re my favorite enemy group(s) in the game right now. Thanks, @Linea! 😁

Edited August 14, 2020 by Werner

[East Slide]

 

 

 

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by East Slide
I can't make that duplicate go away.

[ScarySai]

I solo exclusively +4x8 at 50, and turn it down when exemping depending on my character.

 

Claws and savage can handle themselves well early on, so I leave it turned up at +3, characters that don't get their fun AoE toys that early I turn down to like +0 or +1.

[Ralathar44]

On 6/24/2020 at 1:32 PM, Linea said:

Re: DDR

 

TLDR: "There IS still a DDR skew.  I've minimized it as much as is possible in 801 given the current limitations in AE."

 

Incarnate To-hit is a thing.  DRR is a thing.  Defense Base of +50 is a thing.  These are baked in dynamics of the game and they definitely skew things.  It's unavoidable.  It's the game we have. 

If there is DDR, there really should be an RDR to counter it.  Such that Defense Builds get DDR, Resist Builds get RDR.  Everyone else gets  Nada DR of Either.   The base 50% defense should really be eliminated or at least modified as well, if you really want balance between Defense and Resist Armors.  

 

Right now, from Zero To (+4x8) "Cimmie Test" .. there IS actually balance between Defense Builds and Resist Cap Builds, even though most players never realize it.  The increased HP/S combined with 90% resist and roughly 8% actual to-hit with +4s .... works out to a fairly even balance.  However, once you stress builds beyond the standard "Cimmie Test" and start pushing incarnates and higher incoming dps as well as other types of debuffs, the balance starts shifting more and more in favor of DDR.  *IF* RDR was a thing, it combined with resist debuffs could be used to help keep things balanced.  But it's not, everyone gets RDR for free:  "Resist Resists Resist (debuff)".   Because of this, I put in as much -resist as I could manage to help counter-balance the DDR issue, and then tested it extensively on various defense and resist builds.   There IS still a DDR skew.  I've minimized it as much as is possible in 801 given the current limitations in AE.

 

That said, one of the builds I run is a "Resist Cap Only, to !@#$ with defense build".   It can pretty much take a room full of these guys all the way down to -35% defense and still balance out indefinitely.  At -45% or lower it starts hurting, but that will only happen if you Leroy a Room, and the Room has a pretty high number of defense debuffs in it.  There will be at least one room like that on any given run, but there will also be lots of rooms NOT like that.

 

The other side of Resist Cap Build balance is:  *IF* you get defense buffs from your team, you can effectively be running around perma-T9 Armor, no penalties.  Getting that level of Resist buffs from a team is much more rare and considerably more difficult.  Which also comes back to the skew between defense buffs and defense bonuses and resist buffs and resist bonuses.  So yeah, lots of seriously baked in long standing skews that would need to be addressed.

 

The Cimmie Test:   Grab your ankles for 10 minutes inside a spawn of 6 +4 Cimmie Bosses and friends.  Make sure all 6 bosses are aggroed and stay aggroed.  Use only defensive powers, no offense.

 

And as a sideways indirect buff Regen should also get high resistance to ALL debuffs.  It's a good way to help Regen feel better without omegabuffing it AND it fits with the flavor and themes of regen.  Regen WOULD resist and/or shake off debuffs more than others because their whole shtick is a hyper metabolism and quick repair of any damage/abnormalities.

Edited September 23, 2020 by Ralathar44

[Yomo Kimyata]

Bit of a necro pull here, but lately I've been really pimping out a few of my pre-50s.  +4/x8 gets more interesting when half the mobs are +5 -- you can really tell the difference!

[Moonlighter]

Interesting.

 

I have no incarnates yet. I am soloing on +2/x8 regularly, although the Maria Jenkins arc is tough because the resistance group just kills me dead on higher difficulties. I have problems with Devouring Earth, but probably because I haven't macro'd the emitters and trying to select them in a crowd is tough. I could go up to +3 or +4 but it take a long time to kill stuff.

 

How much power does incarnate add? Playing with Mid's I am going to have to change up my build to hit incarnate soft cap, but I don't know what content requires that. Is that why the resistance enemies are hitting me so easily? I need 59%? (Also, I am looking at hitting soft cap with just passive buffs.)

 

(Also, I really hate dying so my tolerance for higher difficulties might be lower than other people.)

 

Edited October 18, 2020 by Moonlighter

[EmperorSteele]

@Moonlighter, well, once you got Alpha up to Rare or Very rare, you get a "level shift", which effectively makes you level 51. So  even-con minions are blue, LTs are white, and bosses are yellow (As opposed to white/yellow/orange), and as such, even without ANY buffs on your end or debuffs on them, they're hitting less often and for less damage, while you're hitting them more often for more damage. In other words, your +2/8 effectively becomes +1/8.

The only distinction is that you're still actually level 50, so being level shifted up doesn't give you any more slots or powers.

[Bill Z Bubba]

36 minutes ago, Moonlighter said:

(Also, I really hate dying so my tolerance for higher difficulties might be lower than other people.)

And this is why I now purchase 8 hours of P2W Def Amp for all my squishies.

[Moonlighter]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

And this is why I now purchase 8 hours of P2W Def Amp for all my squishies.

I start out every character with 8 hours of all three when it's only 1000 inf per. Sometimes I forget and level first, and it instantly becomes 4 times as expensive.

 

(I leveled my alpha to third tier. I am using Agility, even though I *really* want to use Musculature.)

[Bill Z Bubba]

13 minutes ago, Moonlighter said:

I start out every character with 8 hours of all three when it's only 1000 inf per. Sometimes I forget and level first, and it instantly becomes 4 times as expensive.

 

(I leveled my alpha to third tier. I am using Agility, even though I *really* want to use Musculature.)

Cruising at +2/x8 on my time/fire defender (41) and having a blast where in the past I would have deleted her. It's amazing what even just Mag 4 mez protection does for a character.

[Moonlighter]

I haven't done 801 yet on any difficulty. How useful is active mitigation in that content?

 

[Doomguide2005]

5 hours ago, Moonlighter said:

I haven't done 801 yet on any difficulty. How useful is active mitigation in that content?

 

Very, the 801 series (801.0 thru 801.3) is basically designed to stress various forms of mitigation up to and including "the kitchen sink".  Any limits you place on yourself are just that, self imposed. 

 

So temp powers, inspires, kb/kd, pulling, war burg nukes, kiting, ... the sink, nothing is "off limits" unless you want it to be.

Edited October 19, 2020 by Doomguide2005

[InvaderStych]

11 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

And this is why I now purchase 8 hours of P2W Def Amp for all my squishies.

 

Hmm.. maybe I'll try that if I end up getting off scrapper train for a while.  I've been grabbing the 2XP boost for 8 hrs on new toons, but I haven't tried the buffs yet.

[Moonlighter]

I now have tier 4 alpha and tier one of a few others. I am not at soft cap for incarnate yet, but if I am reading Mid's correctly I can hit 59% with Melee hybrid.

 

RIght now I am running +3 x4 on the Dark Astoria arcs so I am almost there to +4/x8. I can take out large groups of banished pantheon as long as I kill the radiation ones without sucking the defense debuff.

 

 

Edited October 19, 2020 by Moonlighter

[Moonlighter]

I have moved to +4/x8 for most content. I have to admit, being able to run Vanguard missions with the settings that high is satisfying. I am also doing Dark Astoria on these high settings. I can do Nemesis, and did a few missions successfully, but wow they are annoying. Not even that tough, just annoying. And Devouring Earth emitters are still painful.

 

I was hoping that active mitigation would be a big factor and it really is.

 

Having a 4:10 time on pylons (without Lore) makes me sad, though. I will see how I fair when I get my -Res proc to tier 4.

 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Moonlighter

[Doomguide2005]

@MoonlighterI may have missed it but what power sets, AT are you running?

[Moonlighter]

1 hour ago, Doomguide2005 said:

@MoonlighterI may have missed it but what power sets, AT are you running?

 

Martial Arts/Ninjitsu!

 

Which is new for me, previously I was /Shield and /SR but I like /Nin better. Although I miss that Shield damage bonus.

 

 

[Hero_of_Light]

I do try and set 4/8 as my goal for characters I build 

 

So far for my main (DB/SR) it's been 4/8 everything unless I'm leading a team and they can't keep in stride, I'll turn it down for them. Solo is always 4/8 against any so far.

 

Granted, I spent a ton of time on the build and then getting the needed enhancements.

Definitely couldn't do everything 4/8 before all that and had to change depending on the group I faced.

 

 I think it depends on your powers too; my PSI Melee/Energy Aura will probably be better at 4/8 then my main.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Hero_of_Light
Added info so it didn't come if as bragging

[plainguy]

Question I tried 801.2 and my powers were delayed by minutes.. Was that -recharge buff from the mobs or a bug ?

[SomeGuy]

On 5/30/2020 at 11:41 AM, leeowensoas said:

I frequently see people talking about running at max difficulty on their scrappers, and I gotta ask, when you say your character plays at +4/×8 does that mean all the time? Against any enemy group?

 

My ENA characters can for sure. So do most of my x/sd ones. x/rad does pretty well too. x/bio? Definitely not. Some mobs for bio armor? Yeah, sure. I don 't build ANY of my characters for this. If it happens, it happens. I build for killing things cause the best status effect is dead (or confused).

 

CoT at 54 are pretty gross. That -TOHIT is painful.

[StriderIV]

13 minutes ago, SomeGuy said:

 

My ENA characters can for sure. So do most of my x/sd ones. x/rad does pretty well too. x/bio? Definitely not. Some mobs for bio armor? Yeah, sure. I don 't build ANY of my characters for this. If it happens, it happens. I build for killing things cause the best status effect is dead (or confused).

 

CoT at 54 are pretty gross. That -TOHIT is painful.

I’m a huge fan of /EnA and /Shield on scrappers. How do you feel about /Rad? Looking at the Pylon/Trapdoor thread, it seems some people are using it VERY effectively on a scrapper. I always shied away from it on a Scrap since it is a resist set.

[Doomguide2005]

11 hours ago, plainguy said:

Question I tried 801.2 and my powers were delayed by minutes.. Was that -recharge buff from the mobs or a bug ?

You should see something in your combat logs, debuff icons showing or your power icons might seem to change in an irratic manner depending on the cause.  Any idea which mobs?

[SomeGuy]

7 hours ago, StriderIV said:

I’m a huge fan of /EnA and /Shield on scrappers. How do you feel about /Rad? Looking at the Pylon/Trapdoor thread, it seems some people are using it VERY effectively on a scrapper. I always shied away from it on a Scrap since it is a resist set.

 

 

I've done /rad on brutes before and was doing +4/x8 arachnos and not even built for it. It was by the skin of my HP bar a lot of the time, but it was do-able.

Since it has a taunt aura for scraps it is one of the few sets on scrappers I'd use (this is a HUGE deal for me).

 

If Electric Armor for scraps had a taunt I'd be doing that and Rad Armor for fav resist based scrapper sets. But /rad does play different enough and is sturdy enough that I definitely enjoy it on scrappers. Scrappers get more out of Meltdown than Brutes for sure (the +DMG when it's active). Brutes are just able to take better advantage of resist caps and Rad let's that happen wonderfully.

 

Rad is a good armor on scraps.

[Without_Pause]

8 hours ago, SomeGuy said:

 

My ENA characters can for sure. So do most of my x/sd ones. x/rad does pretty well too. x/bio? Definitely not. Some mobs for bio armor? Yeah, sure. I don 't build ANY of my characters for this. If it happens, it happens. I build for killing things cause the best status effect is dead (or confused).

 

CoT at 54 are pretty gross. That -TOHIT is painful.

Running a Claws/ea. Still early enough to where I'm still doing +2, but mobs can cause issues, so hoping going +1 and some specific T4s will help smooth things out. I see zero need for Tanks to not get EA.

[Bill Z Bubba]

Been soloing a Bane SoA the last few days. Got him up to the low 30s and realized he was still getting his ass kicked by some enemies (granted, we're talking Vanguard Sword and the one mission with 3 Crimson Revenants, but even Family and Carnies are giving him trouble,) and he JUST moved from +1/x2 to +1/x3.

 

I'll admit, I'll be shocked if he can run at max diff fully tricked out at 50 based on his performance now.