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Illusion/Storm... Controlled Chaos!

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Posted (edited)

Ok, I know this combination isn’t the most popular or recommended, but it’s a friggin’ blast! As a controller, she’s not good at keeping crowds bunched up... quite the opposite... but it’s all hilarious and awesome chaos!

 

My build is perma-hasten and perma-PA without incarnate. I come up to a mob, drop spectral terror, run into the middle, thunder clap, drop freezing rain, and some lightning storms while my phantom army goes at it. What’s really fun is my lightning storm recharges in 20s, so I have multiple clouds up. If in a hallway, it’s fun to place some in front of a boss and then another behind the boss... and watch him get volley’d between them, haha. There are a number of things I do in different situations (Hybernate is VERY useful!), but the gist is to let your PA do its thing without fear since they can’t be killed and they’re permanently available.

 

Ok, so she doesn’t kill stuff super fast, but I run missions at +1/x2 with Bosses. I solo’d a few Elite Bosses (Silver Mantis, etc.) without breaking a sweat! Actually, I didn’t even realize Silver Mantis was in the fray... but I took care of her handily. Even with her lackeys’ help, she went down without a problem!

 

Seriously, the chaos is so awesome and you really feel godly with all the thunderous effects and rumbling sounds on constant blast!

 

What do you guys think? This build is exactly what I have on my character and it’s working wonderfully. Just unlocked Musculature, but my experience with the incarnate system is pretty limited. Comments/Suggestions welcome!

 

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Edited by pauljima
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Ive always read that Ill/Storm was one of the damage powerhouses of the controller options.  Surprised to hear that you arent killing things fast.  Maybe there is a trick to it?  Proc monstering or something.  Hopefully some more experienced Ill/Storm trollers will comment on this and talk about how their damage is.

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I, for one, welcome new Ill/Storms and am a fan of not slotting the KB>KD IOs.  Let that chaos-flag fly high ❤️

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Formerly of Infinity, Currently residing on Everlasting

 

50s:  Necro/Kin MM, Ill/Storm 'Troller, Kin/EnA Stalker, NRG/EnA Sentinel, Grav/Elec Dom, Invuln/Staff Tanker

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3 minutes ago, wyldchyld said:

I, for one, welcome new Ill/Storms and am a fan of not slotting the KB>KD IOs.  Let that chaos-flag fly high ❤️

Unfortunately, when you don't slot KB->KD, you kill the damage potential of Tornado because it flings enemies away before it gets a chance to do any serious damage.

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4 hours ago, Hjarki said:

Unfortunately, when you don't slot KB->KD, you kill the damage potential of Tornado because it flings enemies away before it gets a chance to do any serious damage.

Knocking someone on their butt, if I wanted to do that, I'd take Ice/* or Earth/*.  What's the point if you're not throwing someone clear across the room?

 

Not trolling you, or the thread, but optimization and fun have their places.  Ill/Storm, this is fun for me, sorry.


Formerly of Infinity, Currently residing on Everlasting

 

50s:  Necro/Kin MM, Ill/Storm 'Troller, Kin/EnA Stalker, NRG/EnA Sentinel, Grav/Elec Dom, Invuln/Staff Tanker

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3 minutes ago, wyldchyld said:

Knocking someone on their butt, if I wanted to do that, I'd take Ice/* or Earth/*.  What's the point if you're not throwing someone clear across the room?

 

Not trolling you, or the thread, but optimization and fun have their places.  Ill/Storm, this is fun for me, sorry.

Knocking them up isn’t fun for you? 

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Well, mobs do die quick, but not compared to say... a brute. I mean, I never thought a controller would be able to solo EBs, especially given how difficult the grind was to get to 50 (on live). 😃

 

But yeah... this build is all about fun... and she is a BLAST.

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, pauljima said:

Well, mobs do die quick, but not compared to say... a brute. I mean, I never thought a controller would be able to solo EBs,

 

😮 Controllers have been known as one of the main powerhouses for soloing AVs for a long time. Illusion/Rad primarily, but also Ill/Cold, Thermal, Storm, Time... as well as other builds.

 

Illusion/Storm can put out enough damage to solo +4 AVs in general. Although I haven't cracked Siege yet...

 

For your build, I have three things to suggest:

1: Tornado is a high-damage power. You're slotting it for Stun, that's a large part of the reason why you're not killing things especially fast. Put a Force Feedback: +Recharge IO in it, that will more than make up the loss of the Recharge set bonuses, and then slot it for Damage and Recharge primarily, maybe with some Endurance Reduction. Personally I suggest a KB to KD converter since it will cause it to just grind mobs down with constant damage instead of tossing them, chasing them, tossing them, etc.

2: Lightning Storm, like Tornado, can use a Force Feedback proc. Each proc here or in Tornado is effectively worth more than a LotG IO, so ... they're well worth the investment.

3: While getting 5% Recharge from Steamy Mist is nice... I would clear some slots and put the +Defense unique Resist IOs (Steadfast and Gladiator) into it. 6% Defense is a far bigger benefit than 5% Recharge.

Edit: for comparison, my build. PA plays permanently due to running Ageless and the Force Feedback procs in Tornado/Lightning Storm, and on the offensive side it has enough damage to solo most +4 AVs (+3 with the level shift).
 

Spoiler

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Edited by Coyote
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3 hours ago, Coyote said:

 

😮 Controllers have been known as one of the main powerhouses for soloing AVs for a long time. Illusion/Rad primarily, but also Ill/Cold, Thermal, Storm, Time... as well as other builds.

 

Illusion/Storm can put out enough damage to solo +4 AVs in general. Although I haven't cracked Siege yet...

 

For your build, I have three things to suggest:

1: Tornado is a high-damage power. You're slotting it for Stun, that's a large part of the reason why you're not killing things especially fast. Put a Force Feedback: +Recharge IO in it, that will more than make up the loss of the Recharge set bonuses, and then slot it for Damage and Recharge primarily, maybe with some Endurance Reduction. Personally I suggest a KB to KD converter since it will cause it to just grind mobs down with constant damage instead of tossing them, chasing them, tossing them, etc.

2: Lightning Storm, like Tornado, can use a Force Feedback proc. Each proc here or in Tornado is effectively worth more than a LotG IO, so ... they're well worth the investment.

3: While getting 5% Recharge from Steamy Mist is nice... I would clear some slots and put the +Defense unique Resist IOs (Steadfast and Gladiator) into it. 6% Defense is a far bigger benefit than 5% Recharge.

Edit: for comparison, my build. PA plays permanently due to running Ageless and the Force Feedback procs in Tornado/Lightning Storm, and on the offensive side it has enough damage to solo most +4 AVs (+3 with the level shift).
 

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Holy Hell that build looks expensive but fun. I'll definitely keep this build in mind and work for the funds, heh. I like the idea of converting KB to KD... didn't even know those existed. Awesome idea on the Force Feedback proc... it's been so long!

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5 minutes ago, pauljima said:

Holy Hell that build looks expensive but fun. I'll definitely keep this build in mind and work for the funds, heh. I like the idea of converting KB to KD... didn't even know those existed. Awesome idea on the Force Feedback proc... it's been so long!

They were made here 

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1 minute ago, kiramon said:

They were made here 

Hah, that might explain it. 😃

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4 hours ago, pauljima said:

Holy Hell that build looks expensive but fun

 

It is certainly expensive as it is, but a version can also be done relatively on the cheap with other sets slotted instead of the purple sets. You end up with a larger downtime on PA and then it may be reasonable to overslot its Recharge.

Apocalypse -> Decimation

Ragnarok -> Positron

Coercive Persuasion -> Malaise (5 slots so you don't lose the no-aggro effect, and a 6th for Acc/Confuse/Recharge)

2xSoulbound in PA -> 2x Call to Arms (A/D/R and E/D/R)
Frozen Blast -> Annihilation -Res

2xSoulbound in Tornado -> E/D/R from Expedient Reinforcement and E/D/R from either Call to Arms (cheaper) or Overwhelming Force (more expensive)
If the PvP damage procs in Blind are too expensive, go with the cheap damage procs from the Hold sets, then use the 4 slots for either 4x Basilisk or 3xThunderstrike (no Recharge for best effect from the procs) plus one D/E from any other set.
Same with Arcane Bolt, change the PvP proc to a 3rd Thunderstrike, or go to 5x Entropic Chaos for some Recharge to make up what was lost from the other sets
Controller ATO in Thunder Clap -> Stupefy

 

Try all that and you still end up with a very effective build that uses nothing more expensive than LotGs other than one Panacea proc.


 

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14 hours ago, Coyote said:

 

It is certainly expensive as it is, but a version can also be done relatively on the cheap with other sets slotted instead of the purple sets. You end up with a larger downtime on PA and then it may be reasonable to overslot its Recharge.

Apocalypse -> Decimation

Ragnarok -> Positron

Coercive Persuasion -> Malaise (5 slots so you don't lose the no-aggro effect, and a 6th for Acc/Confuse/Recharge)

2xSoulbound in PA -> 2x Call to Arms (A/D/R and E/D/R)
Frozen Blast -> Annihilation -Res

2xSoulbound in Tornado -> E/D/R from Expedient Reinforcement and E/D/R from either Call to Arms (cheaper) or Overwhelming Force (more expensive)
If the PvP damage procs in Blind are too expensive, go with the cheap damage procs from the Hold sets, then use the 4 slots for either 4x Basilisk or 3xThunderstrike (no Recharge for best effect from the procs) plus one D/E from any other set.
Same with Arcane Bolt, change the PvP proc to a 3rd Thunderstrike, or go to 5x Entropic Chaos for some Recharge to make up what was lost from the other sets
Controller ATO in Thunder Clap -> Stupefy

 

Try all that and you still end up with a very effective build that uses nothing more expensive than LotGs other than one Panacea proc.


 

Yeah, I’m trying some of the changes like getting FF slotted in as well as re-slotting Tornado (And freezing rain) as a whole. That way I’ll get a feel for how things work out as I’m saving up.

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Posted (edited)

I actually have two builds for my Ill/Storm, the Chaos build is for solo (so much more fun), while the other build is in case I decide to team. I've been busy, so I haven't gotten her to 50 yet (currently 46, mostly slotted), but on Live she was amazing. The only problem I have with this combo is pre-PA exemplaring, other than that, this is my favorite toon. Also, to clarify, force feedback is 2ppm, meaning it is roughly equivalent to 16.67% recharge bonus in combat. In Hurricane it has a 33.33% chance to proc once every 10s (if I remember correctly), but this can be in or out of combat. It only works for the toon on summon for pseudopets (for Lightning Storm there may be a slight increase in the rate of lightning slinging, but it does not appear to be significant). If a second FFb proc hits while the first is active, then it refreshes to 5s and therefore wastes the remainder of the initial proc. Because basically all the powers in the kit are single-target, KB works really well, but positioning to pull pets towards specific targets will help focus pets on specific targets to increase clear time.

 

Gypsy Night.mxd  Gypsy Night (Chaos).mxd

Edited by Zepp

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16 hours ago, Zepp said:

If a second FFb proc hits while the first is active, then it refreshes to 5s and therefore wastes the remainder of the initial proc.

 

I cannot find the post, but I thought that someone doing a lot of proc testing... either @Sir Myshkin or @Bopper said that FF proc durations ADD to any existing stack's duration, rather than refreshing it. That also seems to bear out some quick testing I did, where Tornado and Lighting Storm with FF loaded fired off one after the other... and the buff icon remained for longer than 5 seconds after the last.

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Posted (edited)

My experience has been when an FF proc buff is active, if I get another FF proc to fire, the effects of that 2nd FF proc don't go into effect until the 1st FF proc buff wears off. I can guarantee that happens from my testing.

 

However, I dont know what happens if a 3rd FF proc goes off in that 1st FF proc buff window. I suspect it does nothing, but I haven't attempted to test that.

 

Edit:

I also don't technically know what happens if a 3rd FF proc goes off within a delayed 2nd FF proc's buff window. That is something else I'd have to do focused testing on to be sure.

Edited by Bopper


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1 hour ago, Bopper said:

My experience has been when an FF proc buff is active, if I get another FF proc to fire, the effects of that 2nd FF proc don't go into effect until the 1st FF proc buff wears off. I can guarantee that happens from my testing.

 

However, I dont know what happens if a 3rd FF proc goes off in that 1st FF proc buff window. I suspect it does nothing, but I haven't attempted to test that.

 

Edit:

I also don't technically know what happens if a 3rd FF proc goes off within a delayed 2nd FF proc's buff window. That is something else I'd have to do focused testing on to be sure.

That's interesting. The proc had an internal cooldown that prevented stacking. As far as I recall it was removed. The expected behavior is the proc would refresh the buff; based on your description it sounds like this is what is happening functionally.

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1 hour ago, 5099y_74c05 said:

That's interesting. The proc had an internal cooldown that prevented stacking. As far as I recall it was removed. The expected behavior is the proc would refresh the buff; based on your description it sounds like this is what is happening functionally.

I'm not sure if that was something that was actually removed, or if it never existed at all. I suspect folks had a misunderstanding of what it does and it propagated as fact when it was likely false.

 

I can't explain why it works the way it does, because I agree with you, expected behavior would be a replacement of the buff (thus refreshing the 5 second timer at the time of replacement). How it works now almost seems broken...but without seeing the code or knowing more about this odd mechanic (if it's intentional) I can't really say.

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I haven't tested FFb since live. At that time it reset the timer to 5s rather than tacking onto the end. I apologize for my misunderstanding.


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Okay, this is what I have from my Combat logs, with some extraneous stuff removed:
 

[21:10:47] You activated the Lightning Storm power.
[21:10:48] Readying Tornado.
[21:10:48] You call forth a Lightning Storm!
[21:10:48] Your attack rate has been increased.
[21:10:49] HIT Kitsu Miyuki! Your Force Feedback: Chance for +Recharge power is autohit.
[21:10:50] You activated the Tornado power.
[21:10:50] You call forth a Tornado!
[21:10:54] Your attack rate has been increased.
[21:10:54] HIT Kitsu Miyuki! Your Force Feedback: Chance for +Recharge power is autohit.
[21:11:01] Your Combat Jumping has made you harder to hit.

 

I activated Combat Jumping when the buff icon disappeared. From what I can tell, assuming that lag and personal delay didn't play a factor (and I doubt that lag or the icon display lag is even a second), this is what happened...

 

1) at 0:47, LS was activated and Tornado queued
2) at 0:48, FF from LS triggered and increased the attack rate
3) at 0:50, Tornado was activated... but, strangely...
4) at 0:54 (significantly AFTER Tornado was activated), the FF from Tornado triggered

5) at 1:01, the FF from Tornado ended

 

So, to my eyes, it seems like the 2nd FF proc is kind of "queued" to start only after the duration of the existing one expires. I wonder what would happen if you trigger a 3rd one during the 1st one's duration (Say, an Earth/Storm who also had one in Earthquake)... would it be queued where the 1st one ends, which would have #2 and #3 trigger at the same time, or would it queue after #2 and end up with 15 seconds of Recharge bonus?

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Posted (edited)

As was my experience with testing the proc back in... ... ... September? The effect of the FF+Rech proc was queuing (using this term specifically), not refreshing. Once I figured out the general necessity to get consistent procing on it in certain attacks I went through a lot of cycles timing the duration and I was definitely getting sets of 5 in the timers.

 

HOWEVER!

 

What I cannot say with definitive application is the terms of how many procs I could queue, as that was harder to really confirm given the types of attacks that I could manage to pull this off with consistently were already on their own 6-10/s cooldowns when I tested timers. In that particular test I was cycling Tenebrous Tentacles and Torrent which I could just get both in under 10/s of lapse time, and in total I was able to get up to 25/s (max length I knowingly achieved by recording) before I lapsed a trigger (no proc).

 

ADDENDUM HOWEVER!!!

 

When I designed the Super Strength Proc Monster builds for Tankers/Brutes I was using the FF+Rech in KO Blow, Haymaker, and Foot Stomp. During Pylon testing for [etc, etc, etc], KO Blow was pretty much my for-sure kicker, but I'd also occassionally get Haymaker in there as well, but I could snap shot any one given event and there are drops in there because the proc was going into effect at the start of KO's animation (which is a bit longer), and didn't carry through the entirety of the chain. The reason I bring this up though is that I cannot tell anyone--from a back end perspective--what was mechanically occurring during those proc triggers, and how many were effectually being queued up and/if there was ultimately negated and/or skipped trigger from a maximum queue limitation.

 

Incidentally I did record those runs, and they technically predate the Homecoming video blackout. If someone really wanted the data to scour over I intentionally left the combat window open, and the video quality is well enough to read the screen and see the global recharge in the character stat window:

Spoiler

 

 

Edited by Sir Myshkin
edit: I forgot my obligatory "nerf Rage"
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1 hour ago, Sir Myshkin said:

obligatory "nerf Rage"

 

Uh, does that mean you're asking for Rage to be nerfed, or does that mean that your Rage is fueled by nerfs? 😛

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3 hours ago, Coyote said:

 

Uh, does that mean you're asking for Rage to be nerfed, or does that mean that your Rage is fueled by nerfs? 😛

Yes. And Nerf Regen


 


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Dark/Time/Primal   Earth/Thermal/Ice   Electric/Poison/Mu   Fire/Dark/Fire   Gravity/Kin/Mace   Ice/Rad/Ice   Illusion/Traps/Mace   Mind/TA/Psionic   Plant/Storm/Ice


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5 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

The effect of the FF+Rech proc was queuing (using this term specifically), not refreshing

I'm curious, can you clarify if the queued procs are decaying? What I mean is do they last a full 5 secs?


 


-Main Controllers-

Dark/Time/Primal   Earth/Thermal/Ice   Electric/Poison/Mu   Fire/Dark/Fire   Gravity/Kin/Mace   Ice/Rad/Ice   Illusion/Traps/Mace   Mind/TA/Psionic   Plant/Storm/Ice


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7 hours ago, 5099y_74c05 said:

I'm curious, can you clarify if the queued procs are decaying? What I mean is do they last a full 5 secs?

 

Seems so, check the timestamps on my post above. The FF proc from Tornado starts a full 5 seconds after the FF proc from LS even though Tornado is only fired about a second after LS, so it's queued... but the buff icon and recharge boost in power statistics only drop about 5 full seconds after the Tornado FF proc started. If it didn't last a full 5 seconds after its delayed start, the total duration would only have been about 6 seconds.

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