Black Lives Matter

[Machariel]

8 minutes ago, Leo_G said:

George Floyd is also a a criminal whose been in and out of jail for drug charges and robbing a pregnant woman at gunpoint.  He was also trying to pass off counterfeit bills and was high on drugs.  His *LIFE* didn't matter to any of you people, only his death.  If we were civil, we'd be criticizing the "moron" that killed him and not martyring this ex-criminal.  If we were criticizing those cops, we wouldn't have violence in the streets because the cops responsible are in custody standing trial.  Justice is being served.  Equating the rest to some kind of "race tally" is the height of racism.

He did his time, was released on parole, volunteered in his community, and was a free man at the time of his death.  What is your point? How is his history even remotely relevant?

You're right that I don't care what his life was like.  Because it doesn't matter.  Literally a single tiny bit.

What matters is that an unarmed man posing no threat was killed by four police officers in broad daylight and it took days and riots to even START getting justice - arresting all four officers.  We'll see if justice winds up being served.  Wanna bet?

 

 

Edited June 10, 2020 by Machariel

[Coyotedancer]

1 minute ago, Frostbiter said:

Taylor was a victim of a "No-knock Warrant". By all means, let's talk about the civil rights violation those are.

That's absolutely become a part of the issue. When you hear the protestors and others talking about a need for chance in the "police culture" or their common practices, that's one of the things they're talking about.... How people of color are treated is a huge part of all this, but it's clear the anger and the demand for change has a pretty wide scope that encompasses all kinds of abuses.  

[Solarverse]

1 minute ago, Coyotedancer said:

With all due respect to your opinions, Leo, this particular man isn't the first or only case... He's just one of several at the forefront this time around. 

 

If it helps with putting things in perspective, consider Breonna Taylor instead. 

I would like to add, the officers responsible for Breonna Taylor's death have been fired, not put on leave, but fired. The Louisville Police broke in to the wrong house, and the officer responsible for providing the incorrect address and information is not going to just walk...they are going to hang that individual. This was not a race related incident. This was a policy incident that should have never been allowed to begin with. This is not the first time police had broken in to the wrong person's home. That last time something like this made the news was when it happened to a white man and his wife. The man thought he was being invaded by criminals and produced a shotgun, in which got him killed by the police. This happens far too often and the laws need to change. This has nothing to do with race and everything to do with policy.

 

1 minute ago, Frostbiter said:

Taylor was a victim of a "No-knock Warrant". By all means, let's talk about the civil rights violation those are.

Exactly, this was not so much race related, but rather policy related. Police breaking in with a no warrant invasion is the core of the problem with this particular case. Laws need to be reviewed and rewritten so that this type of situation never happens again.

[Bill Z Bubba]

Justice has not existed in America's legal system for far too many of us for far too long. There are no good cops. They are a gang, protected by the state, protected by their union and protected with silence amongst themselves. The only reason the four cops in question for this ONE incident have been arrested is because 1: It was filmed and shared and 2: Because a great many of us decided that protest on a huge scale was warranted to FORCE the issue.

 

If there hadn't been video? The cops wouldn't have even received a slap on the wrist and George would nothing more than another number murdered in cold blood.

[Leo_G]

12 minutes ago, Strawberry said:

I 100% have seen many army personal wearing their uniforms. So, if this is just for recruiters. That's actually concerning. Does the army realize young generations have a sour taste in their mouth from all the bad politics following the government/military/police force these days? So, in an effort to counter that, they are trying to be the "cool kids" and blend in like...

....


That's actually concerning, but I guess that's a better topic for a different time.

It's all PR.  Military is extremely sensitive about that kind of stuff.  Their efforts mainly aim to quell any possible altercations as that would create a worse situation.  It's not about being "the cool kid" or whatever, it's about professionalism.  We still have a dress code, we just do not wear boots and OCPs.  And while we do still wear the uniform on military posts, the guidance put out by S1 is often aimed at exactly that, PR, within the unit and out.

[Mezmera]

This is my thought on this topic.  

 

 

[Strawberry]

1 minute ago, Leo_G said:

It's all PR.  Military is extremely sensitive about that kind of stuff.  Their efforts mainly aim to quell any possible altercations as that would create a worse situation.  It's not about being "the cool kid" or whatever, it's about professionalism.  We still have a dress code, we just do not wear boots and OCPs.  And while we do still wear the uniform on military posts, the guidance put out by S1 is often aimed at exactly that, PR, within the unit and out.

That's so messed up when you think about it. For real. Either way, that's a topic for another time since it's not really related.

 

Just weird that 'can't wear uniform' OP tried to insinuate it was about danger coming to them from protesters or BLM allies.

[Infinitum]

7 minutes ago, Leo_G said:

George Floyd is also a a criminal whose been in and out of jail for drug charges and robbing a pregnant woman at gunpoint.  He was also trying to pass off counterfeit bills and was high on drugs.  His *LIFE* didn't matter to any of you people, only his death.  If we were civil, we'd be criticizing the "moron" that killed him and not martyring this ex-criminal.  If we were criticizing those cops, we wouldn't have violence in the streets because the cops responsible are in custody standing trial.  Justice is being served.  Equating the rest to some kind of "race tally" is the height of racism.

I dont think its been said but Chauvin and floyd worked together also andore than one account said they bumped heads - Chauvin being the typical power tripping hot head security guard.

 

How are we certain this is anything other than murder - ie not racism or anything else for that matter.

 

Looks to me like one piece of crap human murdered another human with a sketchy past.

 

Chauvin was married to a Laotian so hes not exactly a white supremacist here.

 

As far as police brutality - sometimes they get it wrong, sometimes they are bad cops, but the vast majority of them are underpaid and under trained decent people trying to do the right thing.

 

Cops have the unenviable task of dealing with the dregs of humanity 24/7 and again underpaid and they still show up to work.

 

This defund the police crap - you really dont know what you are asking for there because we do need them, they do keep us safe and do a good job for the most part.

 

Same with the military, hats off to them the only reason we can bitch to each other about nerfing regen is because they are there 24/7 to keep the wolves away.

 

IMO the moment its incorrect to say all lives matter, you are really saying no lives matter at that point, just whatever is politically and socially expedient.

 

Truth is all lives do matter, no matter your creed, race or religion. That includes black lives matter.  Its Going awry by the demands and stances its taking for defunding the police and attacking the family unit. Ie just because I am white - 1/4 cherokee in this case with a wife and 2 kids doesnt make me evil or priveledged, I can guarandamtee you im not priveliledged with all the crap thats happened to me that I didnt deserve, but neither here nor there I worked past it and before covid was doing pretty decent - on the ropes right now but who isn't?

 

In this country anyone has a chance if you take it.  Doing drugs, resisting arrest, robbery isnt the way to success though no matter what color you are..

[Bill Z Bubba]

6 minutes ago, Strawberry said:

Just weird that 'can't wear uniform' OP tried to insinuate it was about danger coming to them from protesters or BLM allies.

Also weird that his current account was created on the same day his other account stopped posting for 3 months.

[Frostbiter]

It's weird that my toenails have kind of a pinkish halfmoon inside. But I digress.

[Infinitum]

13 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Justice has not existed in America's legal system for far too many of us for far too long. There are no good cops. They are a gang, protected by the state, protected by their union and protected with silence amongst themselves. The only reason the four cops in question for this ONE incident have been arrested is because 1: It was filmed and shared and 2: Because a great many of us decided that protest on a huge scale was warranted to FORCE the issue.

 

If there hadn't been video? The cops wouldn't have even received a slap on the wrist and George would nothing more than another number murdered in cold blood.

he was already arrested and charged before the protesting heated up.

[Bill Z Bubba]

5 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

he was already arrested and charged before the protesting heated up.

The other three weren't. And he still wouldn't have been without the video.

[Leo_G]

16 minutes ago, Coyotedancer said:

With all due respect to your opinions, Leo, this particular man isn't the first or only case... He's just one of several at the forefront this time around. 

 

If it helps with putting things in perspective, consider Breonna Taylor instead. 

I'm not willing to jump to conclusions about crimes because it's too often spun by the media.  I still say it's the height of distasteful to make this a "race tally".  Because if you want to start one, I can do that.  

 

I guaran-damn-tee no one protested Daniel Shaver or Justine Ruszczyk.  Like I said before, if you want to be civil (and "respect" my opinion), you wouldn't treat black people special.  You would treat them equally.  I'm not arguing that black people aren't victims, I'm arguing the actions of police need fixing.  You aren't going to win by turning the entire population against the police force or dividing us on racial lines.  I'm surprised I even have to point this perspective out.

[Mezmera]

7 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

he was already arrested and charged before the protesting heated up.

Don't tell them that Trump had the Civil Rights branch of the FBI sent out to speed up that process for this injustice.  

Edited June 10, 2020 by Mezmera

[Frostbiter]

6 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

he was already arrested and charged before the protesting heated up.

Didn't that take the video coming out and something like 5(?) days? The cops where the main problem in this situation, especially the piece of work who actually kill Floyd. He had something like 15 or 20 uninvestigated complaints against him?

Edited June 10, 2020 by Frostbiter

[Strawberry]

Quote

 

Chauvin was married to a Laotian so hes not exactly a white supremacist here.

There are actually studies on White Supremacists, Nazi's, and very conservative alt-rights that fetishize women of other races (especially Asian). 

If you're curious

Quote

 

This defund the police crap - you really dont know what you are asking for there because we do need them, they do keep us safe and do a good job for the most part.

The "Defund the Police" movement does NOT mean dismantling the police force. It means moving some funding to other areas and changing ways that the police effectively 'police'.

Again, if you're curious

Personally, I still need to do more researching on this and don't consider myself and expert in the subject, but it is something I want to hear more about.

[Leo_G]

34 minutes ago, Strawberry said:

I think it's legitimately a 'don't let them see you in your uniform because the uniform is off-putting in the current political climate and we want these progressive young minds to sign up for the army'. It's weirdly o.O f'd up if you think about it, but that isn't part of this conversation.

 

Edit - It is not a "don't wear your uniform because you aren't safe", which is what the OP about this was insinuating.

That is the same thing.

 

If people are "put off" by the uniform, the actions they can't aren't as predictable.  But we're straying away from the point I was making in the first place: being worried more about rioters than cops.

[plainguy]

Since Homecoming decided to open up this can of worms  and I really feel they should have stuck to just running the game server and such.. 

I will jump in..

 

Where was BLM when David Dorn a retired police officer was killed by another Black man and ridiculed as they streamed it live on Facebook as he died.  
Mind you I don't want BLM to  derail anything of what is going on with Floyd.. But at a minimum make a statement condoning these actions. 

But they didn't do or say a thing.

 

I think Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez ( AOC ) is dumb as a stump.. But she did something.. She didn't like what she seen, stopped being a Bartender and ran for office and WON... She didn't sit on the side lines and complain..  I will get back to this..

 

I do not condone what this officer did to Floyd..  One of those cops had 4 days in the streets.. He didn't know anything.  He was just following what the senior guys were doing that is common with any type of law enforcement or military job... I believe they made comments but it fell on deaf ears.. I am pretty darn sure this isn't the first time this cop put his foot on someones back..  But is the first time someone died from him doing that..  

But someone is going to have a hard time proving that was racially motivated. 

 

Nonetheless, Many Cops  ( active and retired ) and Civilians since then have been killed or hurt because of this incident that had noting to do with the Cop or Floyd..  Is this okay ?  I surely don't think so.

Long gone are the day of an Eye for an Eye ( code of hammurabi )..  The justice system and the laws we have in place might not be perfect but this is all we have ATM.. 

 

Looting, destroying property, destroying others peoples lives and dream and killing other people ( yes those cops are people ) doesn't bring back Floyd and surely does not fix anything..  You think Cops are going to be more understanding when one of their own gets killed.. Absolutely not..  

Are there instances of police brutality of course and do cops get arrested of course.. Not everything in which a cop kills someone is police brutality even if someone says it is..  Not everything is white cop vs POC  a racially motivated incident .

 

But if you feel so unjust and you think something has to be changed.. I suggest you do like AOC... Go make a stand, become a cop and make those changes you think need to be done.. Maybe then you might see that its not so black and white in thought as you think.. NOT everything is about race.. 

Again what happen to Floyd was tragic but it definitely wasn't a White vs Black thing like many try to make it..

And it definitely isn't all cops are bad and racist thing either as many are trying to make it out and demonize Law Enforcement.. 

I almost wish they would disband police so people would be BEGGING to have them back shut up with some of the nonsense some people are spewing..

  

[Infinitum]

4 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

The other three weren't. And he still wouldn't have been without the video.

Yes he would have.

[Solarverse]

2 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

The other three weren't. And he still wouldn't have been without the video.

Perhaps the best reason behind this is because we don't lock people up without sufficient evidence to justify putting a person behind bars. A video of the indecent leaves little questions and although a video is not always a truthful device (since it can be taken out of context and started after the facts have taken place that lead up to the scene) it is enough evidence to press charges and put an individual behind bars.

[Solarverse]

3 minutes ago, Strawberry said:

If you're curious

The "Defund the Police" movement does NOT mean dismantling the police force. It means moving some funding to other areas and changing ways that the police effectively 'police'.
 

Not according to this. They mean to completely dismantle the police department and build a "Security Force" based on feedback from the community.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/minneapolis-city-council-announces-plans-150000587.html

[Coyotedancer]

3 minutes ago, Leo_G said:

I'm not willing to jump to conclusions about crimes because it's too often spun by the media.  I still say it's the height of distasteful to make this a "race tally".  Because if you want to start one, I can do that.  

 

I guaran-damn-tee no one protested Daniel Shaver or Justine Ruszczyk.  Like I said before, if you want to be civil (and "respect" my opinion), you wouldn't treat black people special.  You would treat them equally.  I'm not arguing that black people aren't victims, I'm arguing the actions of police need fixing.  You aren't going to win by turning the entire population against the police force or dividing us on racial lines.  I'm surprised I even have to point this perspective out.

And with that, I think I'm out... You're reading a lot more into what I said than what I actually put there, and responding with much more apparent aggression than is necessary. That's not going to lead anywhere productive. Patterns of abuse in the current system are what they are.

 

 

[Leo_G]

29 minutes ago, Machariel said:

He did his time, was released on parole, volunteered in his community, and was a free man at the time of his death.  What is your point? How is his history even remotely relevant?

You're right that I don't care what his life was like.  Because it doesn't matter.  Literally a single tiny bit.

What matters is that an unarmed man posing no threat was killed by four police officers in broad daylight and it took days and riots to even START getting justice - arresting all four officers.  We'll see if justice winds up being served.  Wanna bet?

 

 

See the bolded.  I would normally agree.  But this isn't about an unarmed man posing no threat being killed by four police officers...this is about (at least to you people) an unarmed *BLACK* man posing no threat being killed by four police officers, one of which was *WHITE*.  

 

If you can't see why I'm complaining, then I guess I have failed in communicating and you have failed in considering the perspective of a fellow man.

[Frostbiter]

I'd also like to bring up the method that Officer Dipshit used against Floyd. It's another part of the problem, namely that there is no overarching Federal guidelines for what kind of force Police Departments and civil Law Enforcement use. We clearly, clearly need them because neck holds and knees to the spine are potentially lethal, as we all can see. The hodgepodge of local guidelines we have now is why officer training is poor.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Frostbiter

[Infinitum]

7 minutes ago, Frostbiter said:

Didn't that take the video coming out and something like 5(?) days? The cops where the main problem in this situation, especially the piece of work who actually kill Floyd. He had something like 15 or 20 uninvestigated complaints against him?

Yeah he's just a crap human being all around