The pacifist way?

[Nafsmar]

4 hours ago, Luminara said:

I triple-dog dare ya!

No lube no foreplay just push it right in. I like your style Lum. 

[Nafsmar]

5 hours ago, Troo said:

Rather than pacifist, an "observer" might be more achievable.

ALA the Watcher, Uato, in the Marvel Universe. Troo for the win.

[Troo]

7 hours ago, Haijinx said:

Just play Energy Melee

ouch..

[Twisted Toon]

9 hours ago, Bastille Boy said:

I would agree with you that violence is called for when it's necessary to stop a wrongful attack. Pacifists do not agree. Pacifists think that using deadly force is wrong, even in defense of themselves or other people. It's an extreme view, one that not many people hold. Some very smart people have been pacifists, though (e.g., Leo Tolstoy).

Actually, there are...varying degrees pacifism. Not all Pacifists think that way.

I am a pacifist. I know that there are times when violence is the only way to resolve an issue.

That doesn't mean that I like it. It also doesn't mean that I will not look for the least violent means of resolving the issue.

And, it also doesn't mean that I wouldn't feel guilty after executing a violent means or resolution. I'm sure I would.

 

[Sovera]

'You can’t truly call yourself “peaceful” unless you are capable of great violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful, you’re harmless. Important distinction.' - random internet person.

[Chronicler J]

Did this with a Bubbler Defender back on live ages ago. Super useful toon, honestly, but the stigma against not using personal attacks was always odd (drove me away from playing him, too.) Back then having to re-shield individual targets was almost a full time job on large teams if you accounted for any other support powers taking up animation budget. 

Edited July 3, 2020 by Chronicler J

[Chronicler J]

16 hours ago, Haijinx said:

Just play Energy Melee

I'll take sitting in animations for a payoff over Rage Crash any day. No 10s diaper for me. 

[Peacemoon]

2 hours ago, Chronicler J said:

but the stigma against not using personal attacks was always odd (drove me away from playing him, too.) Back then having to re-shield individual targets was almost a full time job on large teams if you accounted for any other support powers taking up animation budget. 

Well, I’m sorry if this is too direct, but there is a stigma because it is an incredibly lazy way to play, just casting a few shields and thinking this is your contribution sorted and let everyone else do the actual fighting. Even though shields are amazing, playing with someone with this mindset feels like trying to lug a deadweight up a mountain. You might as well play without them because they’re just slowing you down rather than speeding you up. 
 

And I’ve played FF Defender before the shields were AoE, and it takes at most 30 seconds to shield a whole team for 4 minutes. So there really is no excuse for standing around doing nothing. 
 

Luckily we have the MM AT now, which accommodates this play style much better than a Defender does.

[Greycat]

The closest I came to a ... "pacifist" character was a ninja/pain MM. Used to be a doctor, worked in a war zone, swore never to hurt another after that. Her staff... well, not so much. They did promise not to carry guns. That left a lot of leeway...

[HairyLou]

Wow!

I didn't really expect this (or any) kind of response. Thanks all, you've made me think way more about this than i.. um.. though...

 

My initial idea was to give myself a challenge, doable but complicated, I though: To walk through the game 1-50 without getting a single point in my "damage done" badge counter. I didn't concern myself too much really about the ethical implications since I don't really do RP. I do find that kind of discussion interesting both from a game/challenge perspective and in actual real life, but I was mostly thinking of "Is it cheating" in this context. Of course in the end that is up to me, but there's always going to be people arguing that I "cheated" for all sorts of reason (Oh, he used 2xXP, that's cheating, Oh, he use base teleportation, cheater!).

 

While dark or kin would definitely be more popular in teams because they "feel" more useful (my main kin will always have a team even with people sporting perma-hasten), I felt that an Empath would "feel" right (and also not something I've really played even if my main back in the days where all healers (thermal bad guys). Having such a power set and a proper name to go with it would clearly signal even from the start that this is not a damage dealer. Teams wouldn't really matter much since I've got supportive people that has no understanding whatsoever why anyone would do such a stupid and pointless thing. But they're supportive! 🤣

 

I'll have to look in to the tutorial, but I'm pretty sure the damage does count in there too. I recently realised I've sort of tried this before: I went to pick up all exp badges to "level up without fighting" once, and never checked my reward window until I was through 3-4 zones and started to wonder why I never levelled up. (I ended up deleting that char and didn't play again for two weeks.) I had completely blocked that out of my memory. The question is, does it even work if someone else does the damage or do I personally have to deal some damage before I start making xp on the "side stuff".

 

The first challenge for me is basically to find out how far I can get by just getting all exp badges, plaques etc I can get. The next challenge is to find out how many/which missions can be done without any voilence at all (completely ghostable). Can I do them +4/8 with stealth/celerity? Can I get far enough to start using the crystal and repeat some ad nauseum? To be honest I don't really expect the solo experience to last very long but want to go as far as possible despite the horrendous 30-40 gap. When all else fails, be a support(ive) character that advocates peaceful solutions in huge teams that don't listen to me and "defeat" every huge mob they come across. 😇

 

As several of you pointed out, most teams seem to be ok with people as long as they share the danger and don't hug the door even if they don't "see" people doing a lot. My recent run as a debuffer corr does contain a lot of nuking, but most of the run people have seen me make enemies shine in various bright colours while I mostly stand still, preserving my rare, precious endurance that can't really cope with all the toggles. I'm pretty sure half of them don't understand what I bring to a big team since mobs go down in 1-2 seconds and my toggles take longer than that to set up. Still not ever seen anyone complain. That single AM every now and then is usually enough to for people to say "Oh, he contributes!". That is what makes me come back over and over again, the friendly, non-elitist community that in my experience makes this game completely unique from any other MMO I've tried.

[Twisted Toon]

6 hours ago, Peacemoon said:

Well, I’m sorry if this is too direct, but there is a stigma because it is an incredibly lazy way to play, just casting a few shields and thinking this is your contribution sorted and let everyone else do the actual fighting. Even though shields are amazing, playing with someone with this mindset feels like trying to lug a deadweight up a mountain. You might as well play without them because they’re just slowing you down rather than speeding you up. 
 

And I’ve played FF Defender before the shields were AoE, and it takes at most 30 seconds to shield a whole team for 4 minutes. So there really is no excuse for standing around doing nothing. 
 

Luckily we have the MM AT now, which accommodates this play style much better than a Defender does.

Back in the day, when Force Field was a young power-set, the power was not AoE.

If you wanted to bubble the entire team (excluding yourself or course) you had to target each person on the team and hit them with a bubble (or two).

That usually wiped out your Endurance bar.

It got even worse once Masterminds were introduced.

Then if you wanted all the team members bubbled as well as all six of your minions, you had to hit the bubble buttons thirteen times (twenty-six times for both bubbles).

 

Fortunately, the Devs noticed the plight that FF users were in and made FF's Bubbles AoE.

[Peacemoon]

6 hours ago, Peacemoon said:

 

And I’ve played FF Defender before the shields were AoE, and it takes at most 30 seconds to shield a whole team for 4 minutes. So there really is no excuse for standing around doing nothing. 

I’m not very sympathetic to the ‘plight of force fielders’, sorry 😏

[Chronicler J]

3 hours ago, Peacemoon said:

I’m not very sympathetic to the ‘plight of force fielders’, sorry 😏

It's a good thing I stopped letting others dictate or influence the way I play/playstyles a long time ago. To each their own. 

Edited July 3, 2020 by Chronicler J

[Haijinx]

4 hours ago, Twisted Toon said:

Back in the day, when Force Field was a young power-set, the power was not AoE.

If you wanted to bubble the entire team (excluding yourself or course) you had to target each person on the team and hit them with a bubble (or two).

That usually wiped out your Endurance bar.

It got even worse once Masterminds were introduced.

Then if you wanted all the team members bubbled as well as all six of your minions, you had to hit the bubble buttons thirteen times (twenty-six times for both bubbles).

 

Fortunately, the Devs noticed the plight that FF users were in and made FF's Bubbles AoE.

Def Bubbles were a lot more useful before IOs also. 

[Twisted Toon]

11 hours ago, Peacemoon said:

I’m not very sympathetic to the ‘plight of force fielders’, sorry 😏

I wasn't really bothered by the "plight of the Force Fielders" either.

 

My Illusion/Force field Controller tended to support the team by tanking rather than bubbling everyone.

I Generally only used the toggle bubble, Repulsion Field, and a lot of Air Superiority...and Force Bolt.

Also, Chaos, Mayhem, and Pandemonium. (others call it Phantom Army)

 

Of course, that was all before IOs too.

[HairyLou]

Some lessons learned from todays testing on a ice/time troller:

• Damage IS dealt in the tutorial. At first I didn't think so since no badge tracker appeared, so I started working on Isolator and suddenly I had dome more than a thousand points of damage. I made a new character (psi/time troller) and turned on damage tracking. Every attack against the infected does indeed do 10-15 points of damage. Apparently not enough to start the badge tracker if you just complete the tutorial. I guess I should try skipping the tutorial or doing it together with someone, letting them dish out the clobbering. One way or another I obviously need to get some damage done and I have a faint memory of it not working for others to do it for me (skipping tutorial doing just buffing in a team some months ago does ring a bell).
• That's enough for me to gain 10 xp for my first expolration badge, with another 210 points needed for level 3. I'll run out of exploration badges quickly. 🤣
• I could make a lot of inventions for the invention badges I suppose. Would cost a lot of money even if I run TFs on other alts for recipes and materials.
• I can skip a whole lot of missions as time goes by, by using auto complete. It is a bit like cheating though, but I do think that would end up being sort of necessary sooner or later.
• I've started scouring Ouroboros for possible missions/arcs but so far I haven't found any that doesn't contain at least some minor degree of fighting. Gonna look through the thread about Ouroboros badges though, since that would be another set of possible badges to add some minor xp.

Why psi/time? Well, it's a set I haven't done before. I haven't really done an empath since way back in early pre-IO days, but I don't think people realise how much empaths do bring to the table early on when everyone is still having end problems. Then again, not many know anything about time either, except that it's almost as annoying as sonic blasts. 😜 (If I stepped on any toes, I'm sorry, didn't mean that as serious as you thought.) I do think Time is the best secondary at the moment for some reason, still not sure about primary, not that I'll take a whole lot of them.

 

This will be... complicated...  I might have to go with a somewhat more generous "I don't do more damage than necessary", the Pater Familias road (what would the good father do? Example: I might have to hurt you a little to stop you from hurting yourself or others.)

[Crater Kate]

What do you mean? I have characters who never deal damage, honest! They were just walking through a battlefield and happened to point at some Rikti! The fact that those Rikti were torn limb from limb by a dozen demons from the Netherworld shortly after? That's completely beside point, MY character never did anything. *bats eyelashes*

[Tsuko]

My Defender is Veteran 21 and she never kill even a snail by herself 🙂

[HairyLou]

...Oh, and most non-combat missions, like architect entertainment tour, doesn't give any xp. Damn...

 

I made a fool of myself, not being able to find the exp badge just inside city hall. Then I realised not all badges gives XP. I got two badges when I finished Atlas Park explorer badges, but only got the five merits, no xp. 10 xp per badge at level 2, so that's 22 badges to get just to get to level three...

 

Anyway, even if I of course make up my own rules: Is it cheating if I have someone mentor me while i get the badges in high level zones?

 

I tried out Twinshots first missions with a fire/fire blapper today, and while I can let the other NPC heroes do the fighting successfully, they're so bugged it's a pain and the xp is very random. Sometimes I don't get any att all when Twinshot "arrests" an arachnos liutenant, other times I seem to get xp even when not fighting at all. (I suppose I might have to initiate fighting to make sure I get some.) I technically sort of still see this as a light version of pacifism, like military priests and doctors. I have to give myself some slack, because this is pretty much an impossible task even from the start. I'm not even sure I'll get to level 5 by getting the badges that are possible to get.

 

Edit: If anyone else tries this, remember to level up as soon as you level up. I took another 7 exploration badges, earning just 10 xp when I leveled up. Given that it's just a base tp away nowadays that was... golly good gosh, oh the pain and suffering, stupid! Level three barely after all badges in Atlas, Kings and Steel...

Edited July 6, 2020 by HairyLou

[The Pyn]

On 7/4/2020 at 1:03 PM, Crater Kate said:

What do you mean? I have characters who never deal damage, honest! They were just walking through a battlefield and happened to point at some Rikti! The fact that those Rikti were torn limb from limb by a dozen demons from the Netherworld shortly after? That's completely beside point, MY character never did anything. *bats eyelashes*

and in that same vein if you roll a fire/fire tanker and just use the aura and pbaoe powers then you are never actually targeting a mob and it's not your fault if they wander into your burn patch, right?  it doesn't get more pacifist than that imho.

[VV]

  

On 7/2/2020 at 7:03 AM, HairyLou said:

Basic premise: Don't earn a single "damage dealt" point up until level 50

It seems like this would be easy enough. Make a buffer/healer, like an Emp, Rad, or whatever. Go to MSR, do healing and buffing. And done.

 

 

Edited July 6, 2020 by VV

[HairyLou]

Yes, I'll probably have to go that route sooner or later, or but MSR isn't very xp profitable though.

For now, I'm going for all the badges I can get that gives xp just to see how far that takes me....

 

Some interesting notes:

Level 2-3: Exploration badge 10 XP

Level 4: 20 XP

 

That's quite a jump between 3 and 4, weird level 3 doesn't give 15 XP.

 

History badges: No XP. Still getting them though. 😁

 

I guess I need to find out what badges does give xp so I don't waste time on the ones that doesn't.

 

So far I've done:

Regular zones: Atlas, Kings, Steel

Hazard: Faultline, Perez, Hollows, echo DA, echa Galaxy, Boomtown and Crey's folly.

...and that barely got me to level 4.

 

Edit: Finally made it to level 5 after doing Skyway as well. Twinshot first mission, let them fight, not much XP for two dudes. Technically due to the story arc it's really cosplay/sparring even if we're supposed to not know it, so I've still been a good boy, no thugs where harmed making this character. 🤣with 20 xp per exp badge and 1.000 xp to go it's quite obvious even with every badge there is, including redside, that won't take me very far. I'll have a nice stack of merits, but not much xp.

 

Soooo.... Any good tips of missions I can do peacefully on the way?

Edited July 7, 2020 by HairyLou

[HairyLou]

Ah, heck everything really deals a little damage? Turns out Time Crawl does a wee little damage too. At level 6 I'm already up to 2.036 points of damage dealt even if none has registered on the "damage inflicted". I have to admit I'm getting a wee bit depressed about this.