World Enemy levels

[Coyotedancer]

I like that we eventually "outgrow" the goons in lower-level zones... It would be annoying as all hell not to be able to walk through Atlas with a 50+ Incarnate character without being harassed by a bunch of punk-ass Hellions. XD

[MTeague]

3 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

You mean like the PVP zones?

Not quite.  PvP zones, you enter the zone, you're exemplared down. There is no choice. There is no option. It just HAPPENS.

 

I'm envisioning something where,

 

It's optional.  Activated by talking toi someone inside the zone, maybe at the tram, maybe a trainer, something. Your level 50 can walk up to them and say "See here sonny, when I was your level..." and by clicking on that option SHAZAM, you'd exemplared down from 50 to top of the level range for that zone.  When you select a zone at the tram, it tells you the range for that zone.  Take high value from that range for that zone.  You stay exemplared until you log out, or exit the zone, or go back to the NPC and cancel it. 

Edited August 6, 2020 by MTeague

[Hyperstrike]

2 hours ago, Coyotedancer said:

I like that we eventually "outgrow" the goons in lower-level zones... It would be annoying as all hell not to be able to walk through Atlas with a 50+ Incarnate character without being harassed by a bunch of punk-ass Hellions. XD

I just love the knockback game with the low level goons.

*PLONK!*

I CAN SEE MY GIRLFRIEND FROM HERE!  EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

[Coyotedancer]

2 minutes ago, Hyperstrike said:

I just love the knockback game with the low level goons.

*PLONK!*

I CAN SEE MY GIRLFRIEND FROM HERE!  EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

*nods* Calculating the aerodynamic properties of level 1 Hellions....

[Hyperstrike]

15 minutes ago, Coyotedancer said:

*nods* Calculating the aerodynamic properties of level 1 Hellions....

[Greycat]

2 hours ago, MTeague said:

 

It's optional.  Activated by talking toi someone inside the zone, maybe at the tram, maybe a trainer, something. Your level 50 can walk up to them and say "See here sonny, when I was your level..." and by clicking on that option SHAZAM, you'd exemplared down from 50 to top of the level range for that zone.  When you select a zone at the tram, it tells you the range for that zone.  Take high value from that range for that zone.  You stay exemplared until you log out, or exit the zone, or go back to the NPC and cancel it. 

In some zones, you can kiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiindasorta do that now.

 

Go to Skyway.
Talk to the contact for the first SSA. You're 20. Some stuff in zone is now kindasorta a threat for you. Don't even need to get Ouro involved.

 

This, I think I could go for. And yeah, probably at a trainer.

[golstat2003]

On 8/5/2020 at 5:48 PM, Hyperstrike said:

That doesn't mean it's stable or done properly.

You can hack almost anything you want out of the code.  But then you, eventually, have to clean that stuff up.

I shudder to think about what the code on places like Cake looks like under the hood.

I don't have to shudder. Them having to wipe characters and have server issues because of changes is all you need to know. I would never wish Cake's instability on here. EVER. Cake can keep it over there. Let's keep HC code as clean as possible please. (And that's saying something with how spaghetti code like COH code already is).

[golstat2003]

8 hours ago, MTeague said:

I still like the idea of having an NPC in the zone that, can Exemplar you down to the max level of that zone, for the asking.

 

a) no one has to use it who doesn't want to

b) likely to be far more contained in impact then using GIant Monster / Zombie Apocolypse levels to all existing mobs

c) no need to redesign for what kinds of powers an Outcast or Skull or Sky Raider should have when they'r fighting a lvl 54 character.

d) you could do street sweeping for XP if you were so inclined, or refuse the exemplar if you want to be incarnate terror blowing up Perez Park.

e) it would not have to impact normal mission contacts.  I mean, it'd be nice, but if the logistics sucked, those could continue to go by your real level and just Ouro as needed.

f) would be nice if it affected Newspaper/Radio though. 

This on the other hand makes sense.  A SELF exemplar would work.

[Oginth]

16 hours ago, MTeague said:

I still like the idea of having an NPC in the zone that, can Exemplar you down to the max level of that zone, for the asking.

 

a) no one has to use it who doesn't want to

b) likely to be far more contained in impact then using GIant Monster / Zombie Apocolypse levels to all existing mobs

c) no need to redesign for what kinds of powers an Outcast or Skull or Sky Raider should have when they'r fighting a lvl 54 character.

d) you could do street sweeping for XP if you were so inclined, or refuse the exemplar if you want to be incarnate terror blowing up Perez Park.

e) it would not have to impact normal mission contacts.  I mean, it'd be nice, but if the logistics sucked, those could continue to go by your real level and just Ouro as needed.

f) would be nice if it affected Newspaper/Radio though. 

Maybe incorporate it into the chatbox Notoriety menu thingy?

[arcane]

I will say that this could arguably be balanced if you basically made skulls/hellions minions worth practically as much as underlings from a stronger enemy type and so on with xp scaling by difficulty across the board. 
 

That said, clear no vote due to reasons already detailed. Primarily because (1) that’s a ton of dev time better used in hundreds of other ways; (2) it would likely break the game in numerous ways; (3) just don’t like it.

 

Also, people suggesting that we do things like this but make it optional by setting up different shards etc... all these opt-in and opt-out suggestions are getting out of hand. At the end of the day everyone needs to be playing the same game, and an elaborate multiverse of dramatically different mechanics by location just sounds like bad design. Heck, dramatically different mechanics already killed PvP on i13.

Edited August 7, 2020 by arcaneholocaust

[Omega-202]

The zone NPC thing sounds fine, and probably wouldn't be the worst thing to implement.  They can probably just make a TF-like contact that gives you a single mission TF with the objective being "click on this terminal next to me".  Until you click said terminal, the "fake TF" exemplars your team to a set level that matches the zone level and allows you to street sweep until you go and click the terminal or quit the team.

 

Overall, its just an extra step removed from what I suggested on the first page.  You can already do exactly this using Oro.  Or, heck you could just do this with any TF that already exists.  Want to be level 20?  Go chat with Synapse and ignore the mission.  

[Greycat]

16 minutes ago, arcaneholocaust said:

Also, people suggesting that we do things like this but make it optional by setting up different shards etc... all these opt-in and opt-out suggestions are getting out of hand. At the end of the day everyone needs to be playing the same game,

No, they don't. We already don't.

For some people the "game" is being min/maxed and running things at +4x8.

For some it's PVP. (which already can exemp you and has at times *vastly* different rules.)

For some it's base building.

For some it's casual soloing.

People already play different "games" in this world we're given. This being implemented wouldn't hurt you in the slightest.

Edited August 7, 2020 by Greycat

[arcane]

16 minutes ago, Greycat said:

No, they don't. We already don't.

For some people the "game" is being min/maxed and running things at +4x8.

For some it's PVP. (which already can exemp you and has at times *vastly* different rules.)

For some it's base building.

For some it's casual soloing.

People already play different "games" in this world we're given. This being implemented wouldn't hurt you in the slightest.

I don’t think playing different parts of the same game is quite comparable to requesting multiple versions of major mechanics for the same parts. PvP is the only example here where the mechanics change radically, and it’s been well documented what a tremendously detrimental idea that was.

 

And managing multiple sets of mechanics at every level of gameplay soaks up dev time, so yes it would affect everyone.

Edited August 7, 2020 by arcaneholocaust

[Neogumbercules]

Normalizing content in ESO was the best change they ever made in that game so its a yes from me.

 

Remove enhancement levels and scale all as attuned. 

 

Remove levels from enemies and con them to players accordingly. 

 

It'd be a positive change for the game, but obviously it would bring up issues like why am I, a time traveling demigod, being challenged by this pos hellion in Atlas Park. To which my answer is... Just roll with it! One shot him with Energy Transfer and move on. 

[Greycat]

1 hour ago, arcaneholocaust said:

I don’t think playing different parts of the same game is quite comparable to requesting multiple versions of major mechanics for the same parts. PvP is the only example here where the mechanics change radically, and it’s been well documented what a tremendously detrimental idea that was.

 

And managing multiple sets of mechanics at every level of gameplay soaks up dev time, so yes it would affect everyone.

You know, when I read this I was reading it (the initial one I replied to, not this specific post) as a response to "so create an NPC or an option that drops *you* down to zone level.*  Is that not what you were referring to with what I quoted on the opt-in bit? Or was I reading that wrong?

 

Since if it was, I wouldn't call "just go to the trainer to be exemped down to the level" creating... pretty much anything but a menu choice, and can't really see the argument.

 

If it *wasn't,* then I completely misread what you were saying.

[arcane]

1 hour ago, Greycat said:

You know, when I read this I was reading it (the initial one I replied to, not this specific post) as a response to "so create an NPC or an option that drops *you* down to zone level.*  Is that not what you were referring to with what I quoted on the opt-in bit? Or was I reading that wrong?

 

Since if it was, I wouldn't call "just go to the trainer to be exemped down to the level" creating... pretty much anything but a menu choice, and can't really see the argument.

 

If it *wasn't,* then I completely misread what you were saying.

I was referring to Noyjitat’s suggestion that multiple versions of zones be made. Something I vaguely remembered reading earlier but didn’t do a good job of referring to.

Edited August 7, 2020 by arcaneholocaust

[Greycat]

1 hour ago, arcaneholocaust said:

I was referring to Noyjitat’s suggestion that multiple versions of zones be made. Something I vaguely remembered reading earlier but didn’t do a good job of referring to.

Ahh. Yeah. That would be a PITA. 🙂

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

3 hours ago, Neogumbercules said:

Normalizing content in ESO was the best change they ever made in that game so its a yes from me.

 

Remove enhancement levels and scale all as attuned. 

 

Remove levels from enemies and con them to players accordingly. 

 

It'd be a positive change for the game, but obviously it would bring up issues like why am I, a time traveling demigod, being challenged by this pos hellion in Atlas Park. To which my answer is... Just roll with it! One shot him with Energy Transfer and move on. 

My answer would be, because even the weakest person trained in actual magic in DC can  cause harm to even Superman himself. Even if he can defeat them with a finger tap or a huff of breath, if he hesitated or underestimated the threat as he is often depicted doing because of his powers, can take a shot that will drop him cold from the weakest and least skilled of foes.

 

Understand I am not talking from some unknown. it was not just on the forums, The Devs planned to and would of gone down this route more then likely hand in hand with their plan to do a major issue that was all about revamping Paragon city like they did with AP. It was in the games future as sure as new power sets and zones. It was part of how they planned to adjust AE into more normal content rewards, because gimpy custom mobs would reward very little while super tough mobs would of been so rewarding even if you killed at a rate of 10 to one the harder mob would still be the more worthwhile option for even if it took 3 to 4 times as long to down them.

 

In the same vein people who farm easy doors like council would of found their xp earning gutted, while those who hunted malta and carnies would of leveled like they were fire farming.

[golstat2003]

3 hours ago, Neogumbercules said:

Normalizing content in ESO was the best change they ever made in that game so its a yes from me.

 

Remove enhancement levels and scale all as attuned. 

 

Remove levels from enemies and con them to players accordingly. 

 

It'd be a positive change for the game, but obviously it would bring up issues like why am I, a time traveling demigod, being challenged by this pos hellion in Atlas Park. To which my answer is... Just roll with it! One shot him with Energy Transfer and move on. 

As stated no thanks. I like the way levels currently work on HC.

[Ukase]

Sounds to me like a "Self-exemplar" by speaking with a notoriety contact could be the way to go. WIth the tiny bubble in our chat box, it makes them all but useless anyway, this might give them added purpose. 

It would be like taking an ouro mission, only at the notoriety contact in that zone. You go to Perez Park, they make you level 9 (or 10?) 
You go to the hollows, and they make you level 8 or 10, or whatever it would be. Or you could simply tell the contact what level to exemp you to. 


That said, I don't think I'd ever use it. Killing 1000 of anything...I think I want to be 50 and them to be level 8. If I had to actually work for those...not sure I would! 

[Noyjitat]

On 8/5/2020 at 5:40 PM, srmalloy said:

Straw man fallacy. I'm pointing out, from the perspective of more than 35 years as a programmer, that in a complex piece of software, it is rarely possible to point at one thing, say "change this", and have the actual change be confined to that one thing. The problem gets more complex when the people who are being expected to do all of this a) aren't being paid to do it, b) were not involved in the original development, and c) don't have access to all of the tools used by the original developers. Changes to software are very rarely as simple or as neat as someone outside looking at the program's operation thinks it is.

Yep same bs we got from brawler all those years when he said can't won't, not possible and we ended up getting those things like power customization which was never going to happen.  It a matter of adding a copy of an existing zone with different ids and putting different spawns there and linking the zone to a door. Either through ouroboros or a pop up like the train and selecting peregrine island (patrol) at the bottom of the list and then testing this on a test server.

[Noyjitat]

forum had a stroke double post.

Edited August 9, 2020 by Noyjitat

[Noyjitat]

21 hours ago, Ukase said:

Sounds to me like a "Self-exemplar" by speaking with a notoriety contact could be the way to go. WIth the tiny bubble in our chat box, it makes them all but useless anyway, this might give them added purpose. 

It would be like taking an ouro mission, only at the notoriety contact in that zone. You go to Perez Park, they make you level 9 (or 10?) 
You go to the hollows, and they make you level 8 or 10, or whatever it would be. Or you could simply tell the contact what level to exemp you to. 


That said, I don't think I'd ever use it. Killing 1000 of anything...I think I want to be 50 and them to be level 8. If I had to actually work for those...not sure I would! 

yeah optional which is what all radical changes should be. You want harder npcs then put in the options instead of nerfing powersets into the ground. With this they could perhaps even add more badges such as defeat 1000 enemies in creysfolly while in patrol mode. Badging is optional and always has been other than to unlock specific contacts/tfs so this gives them more options.

[Force Redux]

I need to be able to Chun Li kick Hellions into orbit.

[srmalloy]

12 hours ago, Noyjitat said:

Yep same bs we got from brawler all those years when he said can't won't, not possible and we ended up getting those things like power customization which was never going to happen.  It a matter of adding a copy of an existing zone with different ids and putting different spawns there and linking the zone to a door. Either through ouroboros or a pop up like the train and selecting peregrine island (patrol) at the bottom of the list and then testing this on a test server.

Well, then, put up or shut up. The source code is out there for anyone to download; get yourself a copy and show us all how simple a change it really is.

 

Or is this a case of "any problem has an easy solution if you're not the one who has to do it"?

Edited August 9, 2020 by srmalloy