World Enemy levels

[huang3721]

 

6 hours ago, Force Redux said:

I need to be able to Chun Li kick Hellions into orbit.

Tell the devs, we need Paragon Space Program. ASAP!

[Lines]

Here's my little bit of blue sky thinking on the matter. Yes, it's work for devs and will probably code-spaghettify the moon out of Earth's orbit. More a CoH 2 kinda idea.

 

Currently street mobs are more or less useless. You can knock out some early levels with the hellions, but you pretty quickly outlevel most zones until much later on. Street mobs could be useful within a very narrow range, but they're unreliable and weird. To me, the city zones are so much more interesting and varied than the interior maps so I think it's dang right criminal that they're underutilised.

 

I'd quite like to see a feature such that fighting street mobs was a viable and sustainable way to level up and get rewards. I also agree that there's not much sense in having Skulls nipping at your level 50+3 incarnate heels.

 

 

So something like this: zone mobs don't just have a level, but they're not exactly invasion-unlevelled either. Instead they're unlevelled within a broad level range of around 10-20 levels. mobs in somewhere like Atlas Park, Mercy Island and the Hollows might have a range of 1-15, King's Row and Port Oakes might be 5-20... If you're in that level range, mobs will reliably con white (player+0) in the safest neighbourhoods and red (player+3) in the toughest. It stays that way while you level up in the zone and mob rewards scale according to your level, like unlevelled mobs.

 

Once you exceed that range, or are sidekicked above it, say you hit level 16 in Atlas Park, the mobs levels will start to phase out. A safe neighbourhood will con blue mobs now and the toughest shift down to Orange. By level 21 (I think. math hard.) the whole zone would be grey and your Hellion Astronaut Recruitment Drive can commence. Similarly, you gradually phase into zones.

 

The goal would be for street sweeping to be as valuable as running radio missions. A group might be needed to sweep in Hazard Zones, but a solo player could take on City Zones.

[FoulVileTerror]

Another method, equally (if not more) Dev-intensive is to use the pseudo-instance code we see in Atlas and Mercy Island these days.  Have sections of the public Zones which, while a certain mission flag is tripped, will populate the neighbourhood with Invasion-con enemies.

 

Could build a whole expansion out of the idea, honestly.  It's NOT something that I imagine will happen with the current development methodologies in place with Homecoming, though.

[arcane]

18 hours ago, Noyjitat said:

yeah optional which is what all radical changes should be.

One of the most bizarre statements ever when you think about it. Let's think about some of the most "radical" changes for a second. Aggro caps. Enhancement diversification. HO's nerfed early on. Etc. etc. etc. Really???? We should just be able to opt in and out of all of these????? That's the most absurd assertion I've seen here in awhile unless you didn't mean what you just said.

 

City of heroes has a tiny enough player base as is. Even if this came anywhere to close to being a good philosophy from a development perspective, we don't need the player base fractured any further if this is to remain a multiplayer game.

Edited August 9, 2020 by arcaneholocaust

[FoulVileTerror]

But, see . . . if all those options for play are available on Homecoming, that would suggest -less- fracturing, no?  There wouldn't be anywhere near as much need for players to migrate to entirely different server clusters like Cake or Rebirth if the options existed within a singular collective network infrastructure.

[Force Redux]

9 hours ago, huang3721 said:

 

Tell the devs, we need Paragon Space Program. ASAP!

With the amount of Hellions I've launched into orbit, they should be fully staffed already! 😅

[Dahkness]

Elder scrolls online does a good job doing this. Just saying. 

[Marine X]

Perhaps there is an as yet unmentioned opportunity here. What If you used the PVP Exemplar mechanic, everyone to a certain level and used it somewhere that hardly gets used, say the ECHO Zones. They could each get locked to set range like the PVP Zones but be PVE. It would certainly liven up that Badge hunt in Echo: Faultline if those CoT at the bottom of that trench could actually hurt you. we could consider them Flashback Zones since they are tied to Ouroboros, just a thought.

 

Echo: Atlas Park - 1 - 6 Hellions / Vahz / Clockwork

Echo Galaxy City - 1 - 6 Hellions / Vahz / Clockwork ( Maybe rework to spawn 6-14 Outcasts / Trolls / Igneous / Skulls / Lost

Echo: Faultline - 14-19 Vahz / CoT / Clockwork

Echo: Dark Astoria - 21 - 29 Banished Pantheon / Circle of Thorns / Tsoo

Echo: Rikti Crash Site - 40 - 50 Rikti / Crey / Devouring Earth / Nemesis Snipers

Edited August 10, 2020 by Marine X

[Omega-202]

13 hours ago, Hops said:

Elder scrolls online does a good job doing this. Just saying. 

So does GW2.  But the difference is that they were designed for it from the start.  Changing CoH to function that way would drastically rewrite how the game functions 16 years after launch.  

[skoryy]

13 hours ago, Hops said:

Elder scrolls online does a good job doing this. Just saying. 

ESO is a gritty fantasy setting and CoH is cartoon and comic superheroes.  Totally different themes and player expectations. 

[skoryy]

5 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

So does GW2.  But the difference is that they were designed for it from the start.  Changing CoH to function that way would drastically rewrite how the game functions 16 years after launch.  

GW2 also gives you all your powers and stat boosts regardless of level.  My lvl 80s with full exotic can waltz across Queensdale.

[Noyjitat]

On 8/9/2020 at 9:32 AM, srmalloy said:

Well, then, put up or shut up. The source code is out there for anyone to download; get yourself a copy and show us all how simple a change it really is.

 

Or is this a case of "any problem has an easy solution if you're not the one who has to do it"?

Blah blah blah are you in heat in something?

[Noyjitat]

23 hours ago, arcaneholocaust said:

One of the most bizarre statements ever when you think about it. Let's think about some of the most "radical" changes for a second. Aggro caps. Enhancement diversification. HO's nerfed early on. Etc. etc. etc. Really???? We should just be able to opt in and out of all of these????? That's the most absurd assertion I've seen here in awhile unless you didn't mean what you just said.

 

City of heroes has a tiny enough player base as is. Even if this came anywhere to close to being a good philosophy from a development perspective, we don't need the player base fractured any further if this is to remain a multiplayer game.

The playerbase is going to fracture if you continue to nerf. City of heroes has a tiny playerbase because it spent more time nerfing and less time adding content and things to do. You can choose not to believe this but you’d be wrong.  
 

Nerfing only applies a fix to a perceived problem rather than fixing and addressing a problem. A perceived problem meaning perception because what you think is op or hard isnt op or hard for everyone. That’s why if we add harder challenges that you can choose in the difficulty menu or hard mode taskforces and trials. It’s a fix for everyone without making powerset A or archetype B useless, op or no longer fun to play. But you can choose not to believe this and take the easy way out and wonder why people eventually stop playing.

[chi1701]

54 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

So does GW2.  But the difference is that they were designed for it from the start.  Changing CoH to function that way would drastically rewrite how the game functions 16 years after launch.  

Your wrong with ESO, ESO started off with each zone being set at a certain level and as you progressed you moved to a high difficulty zone. This changed to where everyone was fighting as if they where maximum level and the player level only effected attributes collected and gear level up to level 160.

 

GW2 Doesnt auto level you but you are exemplered down based on the map you are in, so a high level player isnt automatically overpowered.

 

ESO is definitely a better system since everyone can play with each other and level is irrelevant unless participating in certain dungeons.

[Omega-202]

15 minutes ago, chi1701 said:

Your wrong with ESO, ESO started off with each zone being set at a certain level and as you progressed you moved to a high difficulty zone. This changed to where everyone was fighting as if they where maximum level and the player level only effected attributes collected and gear level up to level 160.

 

GW2 Doesnt auto level you but you are exemplered down based on the map you are in, so a high level player isnt automatically overpowered.

 

ESO is definitely a better system since everyone can play with each other and level is irrelevant unless participating in certain dungeons.

My apologies on ESO, I only played it briefly, after that change and assumed it always functioned that way.  

 

Either way, that was done by an active, funded development team on a living game.  I think that is a very different situation that has very little bearing on the current CoH situation.

[chi1701]

26 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

My apologies on ESO, I only played it briefly, after that change and assumed it always functioned that way.  

 

Either way, that was done by an active, funded development team on a living game.  I think that is a very different situation that has very little bearing on the current CoH situation.

Thing is, the game does this, rikti invasions and zombies. 

[Omega-202]

7 minutes ago, chi1701 said:

Thing is, the game does this, rikti invasions and zombies. 

But not for all content.  There isn't some magical "copy paste" flip to switch that makes the zombie invasion code apply to everything.  

 

And as said on page 1: there are already ways for us the players to exemplar down to any level we want.  Why rewrite the whole game when we can already accomplish the goal of "make outdoor spaces level appropriate and give rewards" with the way things are?

Edited August 10, 2020 by Omega-202

[chi1701]

1 minute ago, Omega-202 said:

But not for all content.  There isn't some magical "copy paste" flip to switch that makes the zombie invasion code apply to everything.  

 

And as said on page 1: there are already ways for us the players to exemplar down to any level we want.  Why rewrite the whole game when we can already accomplish the goal with the way things are. 

Im no dev and I have no access to their codes, so I wouldnt know how hard or easy it would be.

[Noyjitat]

1 hour ago, chi1701 said:

Im no dev and I have no access to their codes, so I wouldnt know how hard or easy it would be.

Gotta make a copy of the zone minus its current spawns and then add new spawns with the correct flag for those enemies. You would have to do this with each enemy group that you want to be used. Currently we have rikti, zombies and recently nemesis that have event versions. So the same would need to be applied to new villain groups. It can be done but there are lots of people here that would rather shoot it down than try. I would suggest starting with zones like peregrine and founders on blue side, Grandville and St martial redside and neutropolis/imperial city gold side.

 

So lets see, peregrine island has: rikti, nemesis, carnies, cot, malta, crey and DE so two enemy groups are already finished there 

[arcane]

5 hours ago, Noyjitat said:

Gotta make a copy of the zone minus its current spawns and then add new spawns with the correct flag for those enemies. You would have to do this with each enemy group that you want to be used. Currently we have rikti, zombies and recently nemesis that have event versions. So the same would need to be applied to new villain groups. It can be done but there are lots of people here that would rather shoot it down than try. I would suggest starting with zones like peregrine and founders on blue side, Grandville and St martial redside and neutropolis/imperial city gold side.

 

So lets see, peregrine island has: rikti, nemesis, carnies, cot, malta, crey and DE so two enemy groups are already finished there 

 get to work

[kelika2]

Why not just get into an AE mission that locks you at X level?

itll exemp you down

you wont ever get auto logged out

others can join you and leave as they please since AE's task force mode is different

multiple AE buildings so never have to travel far

 

But do have it eventlike where everyone and everything is the same level would destroy the need for progression.  I am sure there is probably missions out there in a single room with a little clicky to finish made just to exemp people down.

 

Also future apology when you do this:  sorry you didnt respec properly and took 3 travel powers and tough/weave before 20

[Greycat]

On 8/10/2020 at 3:08 PM, chi1701 said:

Thing is, the game does this, rikti invasions and zombies. 

And it doesn't do it well.

 

For instance, yes, Rikti are "at level" in King's Row, but easily overpower players at that level. Meanwhile, they're pretty much cake at higher level.  And zombies are a PITA in the same way.

[chi1701]

2 minutes ago, Greycat said:

And it doesn't do it well.

 

For instance, yes, Rikti are "at level" in King's Row, but easily overpower players at that level. Meanwhile, they're pretty much cake at higher level.  And zombies are a PITA in the same way.

Which is a shame, but tbh the current system works and if something aint broken, dont fix it.

[Greycat]

I'd argue that doesn't really "work," though. They don't really scale well to the ends of the spectrum.

[chi1701]

10 minutes ago, Greycat said:

I'd argue that doesn't really "work," though. They don't really scale well to the ends of the spectrum.

Sorry, wasnt talking about rikti, just general each zone having different levels.