Attempting to make Elude worth using with MA/SR

[stryve]

Alright, let's try this again.  So, Elude is one of those powers that I really want to like.  I mean, first it's the capstone of a set, which automatically triggers my inner completionist.  Then it massively increases your positional defenses, doubles your endurance recovery, gives a ridiculous boost to run speed/jump height, throws in some extra defense-debuf resist as well, and lasts for three minutes.  That's a lot of talking points for one power, as befits a capstone.  Unfortunately, here is where we run into the downsides:  the crash and recharge time. 

 

The crash is only endurance, so not quite as bad as some of the other T9 crashes, but it still sets both endurance and recovery to zero, which means all your toggles drop and you abruptly have trouble running away fast enough to survive any remaining enemies.  Then it takes sixteen minutes and forty seconds to come back up at base recharge.  Admittedly, Quickness means that drops to just under fourteen minutes before any Enhancements or set bonuses, but that's still longer than any Lore recharge cycle.

 

I did take Elude on my MA/SR Scrapper while leveling up to 50, but dropped it when I got serious about slotting.  It was great to running around basically untouchable while it lasted, but between having to break off before the crash and the abysmal uptime ratio it just wasn't worth it.  No matter how much I wanted it to be.

 

A few months later I ran across a few posts speculating about using the Presence Pool's Unrelenting to mitigate the crash, and decided to try my hand at designing a build. I'm sure I'm not the first to try, or the best, but I'd like to think it came out alright in theory.  I'm still not sure about all of the slotting, so I haven't actually tried it out yet in-game.  Anyone have comments or advice?

 

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Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.7.1.15
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Rusco Ducam: Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Martial Arts
Secondary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Force of Will
Power Pool: Presence
Power Pool: Leadership

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Storm Kick -- SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg(A), SprCrtStr-Dmg/Rchg(15), SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), SprCrtStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), SprCrtStr-Rchg/+50% Crit(39)
Level 1: Focused Fighting -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(3), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(3), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(5), RedFrt-Def(5), RedFrt-EndRdx(7)
Level 2: Focused Senses -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(7), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(9), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(9), RedFrt-Def(11), RedFrt-EndRdx(11)
Level 4: Agile -- GifoftheA-Def(A), GifoftheA-Def/EndRdx(13), GifoftheA-Run+(13)
Level 6: Cobra Strike -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(21), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), Hct-Acc/Rchg(23), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(23), Hct-Dam%(37)
Level 8: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 10: Practiced Brawler -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Mighty Leap -- WntGif-ResSlow(A), WntGif-RunSpd/Jump/Fly/Rng/EndRdx(39), WntGif-RunSpd/Jump/Fly/Rng(40)
Level 14: Project Will -- FrcFdb-Dmg/KB(A), FrcFdb-Acc/KB(40), FrcFdb-Dmg/EndRdx/KB(40), FrcFdb-Rechg%(46)
Level 16: Dodge -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def(17), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(17)
Level 18: Provoke -- Acc-I(A)
Level 20: Unleash Potential -- DctWnd-Heal(A), DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(43), DctWnd-Rchg(45)
Level 22: Intimidate -- Acc-I(A)
Level 24: Unrelenting -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/Rchg(46), Prv-Absorb%(46)
Level 26: Quickness -- Run-I(A)
Level 28: Lucky -- ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(A), ShlWal-Def(29), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(29)
Level 30: Dragon's Tail -- OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg(A), OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg/End(31), OvrFrc-Dmg/End/Rech(31), OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(31), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(33), FrcFdb-Rechg%(33)
Level 32: Eagles Claw -- SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg(A), SprScrStr-Dmg/Rchg(33), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), SprScrStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), SprScrStr-Rchg/+Crit(37)
Level 35: Evasion -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(36), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(36), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(36), RedFrt-Def(37), RedFrt-EndRdx(39)
Level 38: Elude -- ShlWal-Def/Rchg(A), ShlWal-EndRdx/Rchg(45), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45), ShlWal-Def(50)
Level 41: Maneuvers -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(42), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(42), Rct-Def/Rchg(42), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(43), Rct-ResDam%(43)
Level 44: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Tactics -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(48), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(48), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(48), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(50), GssSynFr--Build%(50)
Level 49: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit 
Level 1: Quick Form 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- IntRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(25), Mrc-Rcvry+(25)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- SynSck-EndMod/+RunSpeed(A), PrfShf-EndMod(27), PrfShf-End%(27)
Level 0: Portal Jockey 
Level 0: Task Force Commander 
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion 
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve 
Level 50: Agility Radial Paragon 
Level 50: Assault Radial Embodiment 
Level 50: Barrier Core Epiphany 
Level 50: Diamagnetic Core Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Vorpal Core Final Judgement 
------------

Edited August 26, 2020 by stryve

[Hyperstrike]

Crashy T9's are essentially "Oh Shit" buttons.

You're going to die.  Elude can give you a chance to run the hell away.
Or, if you're VERY close to beating your opponent, just enough *OOMPH* to get you there before you fall over.

Things like Perf Shifter procs can help bypass the floored Recovery.  If they proc, you get a chunk of Endurance back, period.
I believe the Panacea proc functions in a similar fashion.  If it procs, you get 7.5% of your maximum Endurance back.

But you should NOT be using Elude as a regular part of your repertoire.
 

[Bill Z Bubba]

3 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

But you should NOT be using Elude

Altered quote for my take on the power.

[Deuce Spade]

I understand the appeal - when perma-Elude was a thing on live, it was a really fun playstyle.  I'll have to go with Bill on this one though, in it's current state, it's a waste of power picks and slots.

[Mr. Vee]

In general on SR if you're not already defense capped and ddr capped you've gone horribly wrong somewhere. So you'd then just be weighing movement speed and recovery bonuses against the crash.

I see from your build that you've gone all in on the presence pool to try and mitigate elude when elude is basically giving you the 3% defense you need to softcap when it's up. But had you not gone with the presence pool it'd have been trivial to pick up that extra 3%/2% ranged/melee and have it all the time. Your recovery is already fine, you're over cap on DDR and you've got movement speed bonuses all over the place. So basically yeah, a long-winded way of saying /signed on Bill's post.

[Hyperstrike]

3 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Altered quote for my take on the power.

I kinda feel that way about it too.  Like Unstoppable.

[Krazie Ivan]

interesting concept to explore, but i still think there's far more to be gained on SR from Rune and/or Melee Core. maybe LotG mule, if you're in a more-power-options-than-free-slots situation.

[Bill Z Bubba]

14 minutes ago, Krazie Ivan said:

interesting concept to explore, but i still think there's far more to be gained on SR from Rune and/or Melee Core. maybe LotG mule, if you're in a more-power-options-than-free-slots situation.

I'm not a fan of Rune due to the two wasted power picks to get to it and its inability to be perma, but I have been experimenting with Melee Core recently. It certainly helps on the survivability front. More regen is always welcome for SR and the extra resists make it a far more useful panic button than elude will ever be.

[Krazie Ivan]

3 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

not a fan of Rune due to the two wasted power picks to get to it and its inability to be perma, but I have been experimenting with Melee Core recently

true, it doesn't fit all, for sure.
Absorb proc in Ward, Slow Res in Flight (add a 2nd slot to Gift for very nice F/C Res), & rotate with M.Core?...still not a 1-hit-wonder like t9 could/should be, but that's a lot of utility & durability for 3 powers, 3-5 used slots (3-4 in Rune, 0-1 in Flight), & an Incarn pick. granted...i don't take travel powers, since Ninja/Beast runs, so Flight may be more useful to me than others who still burn power-picks on travel.

and who doesn't like free TP?!?! 😜
/s

[Doomguide2005]

I'll add my agreement to the chorus.  About the only way I might play around with it would be on a non-primary build intending to solo +4/×8 Rularuu almost exclusively ... in 2 min 45 sec bursts 😜 as an experiment to see if I could get to around 150 defense (i.e. softcapped vs Eyeballs).

 

Edit: If I absolutely had to include, well recharge and then more recharge +/- muling for set bonuses.  Minimum two boosted +5 Recharge IO's, probably.  But really, I'm already defense capped, ddr at 95+, no end issues in sight with Conserve Power for the rare issues with particular foes ... Am I really taking it for movement bonuses on an already quick character?

Edited August 26, 2020 by Doomguide2005

[Neogumbercules]

Crashy T9s are a relic of the past and have been since Issue 9 which was like 300 years ago. Certain aspects of this game have needed a serious overhaul ever since the Invention System was introduced but it never happened because half the community and a lot of the OG devs couldn't stop clutching their pearls over balancing the game around SOs.

[StrikerFox]

I'm not in front of my computer and can't check the numbers, but I think Ageless Destiny incarnate power will mitigate the end crash, if used at the right time. It would help with recharging Elude as well.

[ShardWarrior]

9 hours ago, Deuce Spade said:

I understand the appeal - when perma-Elude was a thing on live, it was a really fun playstyle.  I'll have to go with Bill on this one though, in it's current state, it's a waste of power picks and slots.

Seconded.  It is a nice-to-have prior to fully kitting your character out with IOs.  Beyond that, it is a waste of pick in my opinion.

[Hyperstrike]

5 hours ago, StrikerFox said:

I'm not in front of my computer and can't check the numbers, but I think Ageless Destiny incarnate power will mitigate the end crash, if used at the right time. It would help with recharging Elude as well.

I hate the "Time it JUST RIGHT!" ideology.

I can acknowledge that, if it works, great!

But I have had bad luck trying to coordinate that sort of thing.  Timing issues, server lag, connection lag. 
And there I am, either early, or late with my drawers dropped.

[ninja surprise]

Don't worry about the crash.  Here's what you do:

Build your hero to soft-cap on all positions without Elude. Take Tough for the two unique +Def IOs, etc.

 

Take Elude, but just with the default slot put an EndMod in there.

 

You only use it when a few Sappers or Carnies get lucky, sap you out (or you completely fail to pay attention to Endurance while fighting), and you toggle-drop. No toggles + no End = low defense and quick death, EXCEPT you whip out a double-backflip and go crazy Scrapperlock and defeat everything.

Or if for some reason you got defeated and then rezzed in the middle of battle you hit Elude instead of turning on 5+ toggles and go straight back into Scrapperlock.

Then just watch for the crash and go back to normal mode.

[Hyperstrike]

13 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

I'm not a fan of Rune due to the two wasted power picks to get to it and its inability to be perma, but I have been experimenting with Melee Core recently. It certainly helps on the survivability front. More regen is always welcome for SR and the extra resists make it a far more useful panic button than elude will ever be.

S'TREWTH!

[Haijinx]

It makes an okay LOTG +7.5% mule I guess. 

 

 

[Doomguide2005]

On 8/26/2020 at 5:02 PM, StrikerFox said:

I'm not in front of my computer and can't check the numbers, but I think Ageless Destiny incarnate power will mitigate the end crash, if used at the right time. It would help with recharging Elude as well.

Mine was to use Geas of the Kind Ones just prior to the crash (+1000% recover ) then hit Archmage (Eye of Magus) for its +def and +resist. But it has been a long time since I used that method or actually had Elude in the build (pre IO's perhaps)

[HelenCarnate]

On 8/27/2020 at 12:42 PM, Haijinx said:

It makes an okay LOTG +7.5% mule I guess. 

 

 

Agreed.  Some people go nuts with recharge and 5 slot Red Fortune on top of LotG and may just need that 1 extra slot to get by.  That is about the only reason for Elude.