How could we get you to try

[M3z]

3 hours ago, HoundsTooth said:

I want to try PvP, especially 1v1 or small teams in the arena, but barriers to entry are too high. It seems like you need a really optimized build. I’m a casual player and I have a hard enough time affording purple/PvP/winter IO’s. I don’t want to invest the time into farming or playing the market to afford a good build when I might not even like PvP. If there was an active PvP community on the test server,

I would join.

Indomitable pvp scene is a continuation of the live 'test pvp scene' and it's active with 4 vet teams and around 3-4 new teams. Not as many as the heydays of i12 but been stable for the most part.

[Latex]

I'm going off the initial post 'how to get me interested in pvp'.

 

Removing set bonuses in PvP completely, SO-level Enhancements only.

Remove Phase Shifting.

Basically, revert the game to i7.

[Bill Z Bubba]

26 minutes ago, siolfir said:

instead the premise of the thread is to ask what is causing a barrier to entry for people from trying a different kind that they may or may not enjoy, but usually don't know because they haven't tried.

 

1 hour ago, Neiska said:

Some people, have quite stressful lives and play games to unwind or relax

 

That's all there is to it in a nutshell for me. I'll PvP with my buddies for the following reason: They need badges

 

There are no other reasons for me to PvP in CoH.

[Hexquisite]

The great barrier keeping me from PvP is that I don't find PvP fun in any way, shape, or form, and never have, in any game I have ever played. It leaves me paranoid, twitchy, and with a seething hatred for the whole of humanity. PvP in any game brings my already vibrant misanthropy to throbbing new levels of raw, undistilled hatred that, if left to fester, might one day take on a sentience all it's own. 

 

And then we'd have Hamidon.

 

So, if someone could figure out a way to add actual fun, and remove the elements that bring about the Great Rage, we might be able to talk.

[Luminara]

1 minute ago, Hexquisite said:

It leaves me paranoid, twitchy, and with a seething hatred for the whole of humanity.

 

That's a lot of words to describe Tuesday.

[Lines]

4 minutes ago, Hexquisite said:

The great barrier keeping me from PvP is that I don't find PvP fun in any way, shape, or form, and never have, in any game I have ever played. It leaves me paranoid, twitchy, and with a seething hatred for the whole of humanity. PvP in any game brings my already vibrant misanthropy to throbbing new levels of raw, undistilled hatred that, if left to fester, might one day take on a sentience all it's own. 

 

And then we'd have Hamidon.

 

So, if someone could figure out a way to add actual fun, and remove the elements that bring about the Great Rage, we might be able to talk.

What if they gave out free gummie bears?

[Hexquisite]

5 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

That's a lot of words to describe Tuesday.

 

There are occasions when I am apt to become unnecessarily verbose while expounding upon the mundane.

Edited September 16, 2020 by Hexquisite
More verbosity!

[FoulVileTerror]

One of the other points which seems to show up a bit in this thread, but hasn't been explicitly stated:

It sounds like some players would try PvP if PvPers did a better job of policing their own community when it comes to toxicity.

 

Not saying that's necessarily fair or reasonable (but maybe it is; requires more thought, at least), but I'm definitely getting the impression that some players here feel that way.

 

Am I way off the mark?

[Hexquisite]

19 minutes ago, Lines said:

What if they gave out free gummie bears?

 

Gummi bears are not a strong enough incentive.

 

Negotiations should open with chocolate on the table.

[M3z]

22 minutes ago, FoulVileTerror said:

One of the other points which seems to show up a bit in this thread, but hasn't been explicitly stated:

It sounds like some players would try PvP if PvPers did a better job of policing their own community when it comes to toxicity.

 

Not saying that's necessarily fair or reasonable (but maybe it is; requires more thought, at least), but I'm definitely getting the impression that some players here feel that way.

 

Am I way off the mark?

As far as the arena scene is concerned we police bad behavior, there really isn't much in the way of trash talk unless it's among the vet players but as far as trash talk towards new players or farming new players etc. we don't really tolerate it.

 

Can't speak for zones since I don't go there much but I know a lot of the troublemakers get banned but overall zones are pretty toxic in terms of how people play (this is a given, zones are the wild west of pvp) and trashtalk. That said it makes it fun as long as you don't take it seriously (I like to go to zones just to watch the trash talk sometimes lol).

 

People just gotta remember there are two pvp scenes happening on homecoming, the arena scene is pretty chill compared to zones.

[macskull]

2 hours ago, Troo said:

Ahhh, classic pvp

 

"Let's get people involved!" a little bit later "Oh, ignore the a-holes. we're not all like that.." a little bit later "Hey, where did everyone go?"

Why even bother posting if you’re not going to contribute anything of value to the discussion? Hell, I don’t think you’ve had a single constructive post in this entire thread (or in most other places on the forums but that’s neither here nor there).

[DrBasics]

1 minute ago, M3z said:

As far as the arena scene is concerned we police bad behavior, there really isn't much in the way of trash talk unless it's among the vet players but as far as trash talk towards new players or farming new players etc. we don't really tolerate it.

 

Can't speak for zones since I don't go there much but I know a lot of the troublemakers get banned but overall zones are pretty toxic in terms of how people play (this is a given, zones are the wild west of pvp) and trashtalk. That said it makes it fun as long as you don't take it seriously (I like to go to zones just to watch the trash talk sometimes lol).

 

People just gotta remember there are two pvp scenes happening on homecoming, the arena scene is pretty chill compared to zones.

The problem that is present here is a problem that all the communities suffer from; ignorance.

 

Many ignorant people (read: majority that are uninformed of PVP) will simply associate the toxic/bad behavior of Zone (or wherever it is present) PVP and Arena PVP. They see no difference between the two.

 

The same way the ignorant (read: majority that are uninformed of RP) will associate every RP'er with being ERP, herp-derp Goldshire in World of Warcraft and/or "I put on my robe and wizard hat". And in my personal (anecdotal) experience, the people who troll RP'ers the most are of the PVP community. (keep in mind that I am not chastising anyone here)

 

So the UNFORTUNATE task you face is breaking the stigma associated with ALL pvp'ers, despite sectors that have nothing to do with you.

[M3z]

7 minutes ago, DrBasics said:

The problem that is present here is a problem that all the communities suffer from; ignorance.

 

Many ignorant people (read: majority that are uninformed of PVP) will simply associate the toxic/bad behavior of Zone (or wherever it is present) PVP and Arena PVP. They see no difference between the two.

 

The same way the ignorant (read: majority that are uninformed of RP) will associate every RP'er with being ERP, herp-derp Goldshire in World of Warcraft and/or "I put on my robe and wizard hat". And in my personal (anecdotal) experience, the people who troll RP'ers the most are of the PVP community. (keep in mind that I am not chastising anyone here)

 

So the UNFORTUNATE task you face is breaking the stigma associated with ALL pvp'ers, despite sectors that have nothing to do with you.

I have tons of VODs on my youtube channel that show what arena pvp is like if people are curious. But yeah I agree with you, hence why I'm here explaining the differences. I'm used to it at this point because much of the CoH community has been pretty hostile to the community which was also stoked by devs like Castle as well which was really unfair given how large the organized pvp community was at one point (isn't that supposed to be good for a game?).

Edited September 16, 2020 by M3z

[macskull]

1 minute ago, DrBasics said:

So the UNFORTUNATE task you face is breaking the stigma associated with ALL pvp'ers, despite sectors that have nothing to do with you.

And the realistic answer to that is that it isn’t possible, just like it’s not possible to convince non-RPers that RP in CoH isn’t just a bunch of futa catgurls circle-jerking in Pocket D - unless they go check it out for themselves and actually take the time to ask questions and figure things out. The community can only do so much and in reality everyone pretty much has to meet halfway and go from there. The people you’re describing are the ones who would find an excuse to not get involved in PvP no matter what the community did and as a result they’re not the people the community is trying to get interested.

[DrBasics]

23 minutes ago, macskull said:

And the realistic answer to that is that it isn’t possible, just like it’s not possible to convince non-RPers that RP in CoH isn’t just a bunch of futa catgurls circle-jerking in Pocket D - unless they go check it out for themselves and actually take the time to ask questions and figure things out. The community can only do so much and in reality everyone pretty much has to meet halfway and go from there. The people you’re describing are the ones who would find an excuse to not get involved in PvP no matter what the community did and as a result they’re not the people the community is trying to get interested.

I completely agree with you. People need to give things a try before they dismiss it as something "not for me". However, I simply gave you the perspective of how many people think and feel. And this is a thread asking those people "How can we get you to try" (pvp). So I would argue that this thread is trying to get those very people interested.

 

Whenever there is a thread about "How can we get you to try RP" , then it will be up to the RP community to defend itself and show it isn't (as you put it) "a bunch of futa catgurls circle-jerking in Pocket D"

Edited September 16, 2020 by DrBasics

[RageusQuitus2]

1 hour ago, DrBasics said:

I put on my robe and wizard hat". And in my personal (anecdotal) experience, the people who troll RP'ers the most are of the PVP community. (keep in mind that I am not chastising anyone here)

Im not a serious RPer or PvPer.  But it was the idea of villains versus heroes.  I would talk in broadcast (what i felt a villain would say, not FU LRN2PLAY).  Villains got screwed over in early PvP (at least zones).  We couldnt be 50, we didnt have Hami's only SOs, alot of little things just were harder on villain side.  So of course I took to it.  Grouped with a bunch of like minded players (and made some life long friends).  And because of the size and quality of our VG we held our own often against those silly misguided heroes.  We were the plucky underdogs (not alot of dedicated PvPers but enough, and we all knew our builds).

 

So in my mind RP and PvP go well together.  And for that matter good PvErs in a group (and in voice together) can hold up well against unorganized zoners (and occasionally organized pro's).  

 

As for my original intent in posting as OP.  Among other things I just wanted each side to see more what the other was thinking.  I hope some of those /b aholes might think twice before alienating a potential #PvPer4Life.  And maybe some of those anti pvpers might see sometimes the smack is just jokes.  Sometimes Im just messing with ya/role playing the villain.

[FoulVileTerror]

I hold the stance that roleplay of that nature requires consent.

Smacktalk is often performed without consent, or even regard, for the people on the receiving end.

Placing a moratorium on smacktalk as a community, outside of those who you have a personal rapport with, might be helpful to your cause.

[Dragotect]

Honestly, it really boils down to the toxic, meta subgroup being much more blatantly apparent in the style. You can ignore them in PvE for the most part, but in PvP they badge camp, gank you, then dance on your corpse and belittle you in broadcast.

 

Until that changes, which the GMs and devs have no control over, I don't think you're going to change the mind of the majority of non-pvpers.

 

In this game alone I had a stalker instant kill me at a badge, proceed to engage/defeat me at every subsequent badge, then call me a "Skittle popper" when I got sick of it and popped half a tray of purple/orange just to deny him one more kill on the way out of the zone. I vowed to never enter a PvP zone ever again after that.

 

I'd be most likely to play arena... With friends or SG mates only.

Edited September 17, 2020 by Dragotect

[Xanatos]

All this "police your own" stuff is nonsense. Trash talkers are in every game and are not the reason PVP is unpopular in CoH. Stop being so solipsistic to assume that your own bad experiences/judgements are somehow universal.

 

The reason PVP is unpopular in this game has nothing to do with how toxic/nontoxic people are. It is for two main reasons:

• CoH PVE is insanely easy/casual/uncompetative. CoH PVP is the opposite of this
• PVE builds play differently in PVP

PVP doesn't match the PVE experience. So people hate it. It really is that simple.

Edited September 17, 2020 by Xanatos

[Myrmidon]

12 hours ago, Heraclea said:

If you had built a base in the old game, many of the restrictions on item placement and various line of sight rules were all related to the possibility of base raiding.  You had to obey the PvP rules in building even if you never used the base for PvP.  IIRC only certain rooms could house power, control, and teleport objects as well.  Each standard teleporter could serve only two zones.   You had to unlock the teleport beacons by visiting each target zone exploration badge location while in SG costume mode.  Base raiding also worked off the prestige system, where every base item cost prestige, supergroups had to pay a prestige rent, and prestige invested in items destroyed by PvP was lost. 

 

The way bases work on HC, with room clipping permitted, many bases being built above or below the walls, and prestige not in use, the return of base PvP is basically not possible here for better or worse. 

Agreed. I was just reminiscing.😁

[DrBasics]

17 minutes ago, Xanatos said:

All this "police your own" stuff is nonsense. Trash talkers are in every game and are not the reason PVP is unpopular in CoH. Stop being so solipsistic to assume that your own bad experiences/judgements are somehow universal.

 

The reason PVP is unpopular in this game has nothing to do with how toxic/nontoxic people are. It is for two main reasons:

• CoH PVE is insanely easy/casual/uncompetative. CoH PVP is the opposite of this
• PVE builds play differently in PVP

PVP doesn't match the PVE experience. So people hate it. It really is that simple.

So someone creates a forum thread asking what needs to be done to get non-pvp'ers to try pvp. Many people talk about the toxic behavior of the pvp community (so many people that it triggered the quoted post). Many people tell stories from their personal experience with toxic behavior.

 

You: Toxic behavior is not the reason. It's because everyone is scared to be competitive.

 

Yeah, sorry, I don't buy it. I really am not trying to be jerk in this thread and I apologise to anyone that feels like I am.

[Myrmidon]

4 minutes ago, DrBasics said:

So someone creates a forum thread asking what needs to be done to get non-pvp'ers to try pvp. Many people talk about the toxic behavior of the pvp community (so many people that it triggered the quoted post). Many people tell stories from their personal experience with toxic behavior.

 

You: Toxic behavior is not the reason. It's because everyone is scared to be competitive.

 

Yeah, sorry, I don't buy it. I really am not trying to be jerk in this thread and I apologise to anyone that feels like I am.

 

 

27 minutes ago, Xanatos said:

The reason PVP is unpopular in this game has nothing to do with how toxic/nontoxic people are. It is for two main reasons:

• CoH PVE is insanely easy/casual/uncompetative. CoH PVP is the opposite of this
• PVE builds play differently in PVP

PVP doesn't match the PVE experience. So people hate it. It really is that simple.

This is Xanatos’ point. It doesn’t have anything to do with being “scared to be competitive”.

[Dragotect]

38 minutes ago, Myrmidon said:

 

 

This is Xanatos’ point. It doesn’t have anything to do with being “scared to be competitive”.

Then why not list how they are different, why those differences are distasteful are undesirable, and offer anything that might be a way to improve this.

 

Instead he discredited the experiences that many have had with PvP, flat out said pve isn't as competitive as PvE, and ignored that the toxic members of PvP having a much greater hands on way of griefing beyond trash talk and why they must be taken into account as very factual reasons why some people just don't bother with pvp.

 

I've enjoyed PvP occasionally, with friends and guild mates. Never with open PvP. I've had level 70s chasing me through 30-35 zones, body campers, team v 1, the stalker in this game, and the all too common git who can't stop dropping duel challengers across my screen no matter how many times I decline who proceeds to verbally harass and abuse when he realized he isn't going to change my mind.

 

You can't have that level of greifing in PvE. Just ignore and it's over in pve.

 

 

[Troo]

4 hours ago, macskull said:

Why even bother posting if you’re not going to contribute anything of value to the discussion? Hell, I don’t think you’ve had a single constructive post in this entire thread (or in most other places on the forums but that’s neither here nor there).

Is this an attempt to bully someone to try and suppress their posting or were you appointed the forum police?

Regarding the pvp timeline pattern: One could suggest this thread might be following that same pattern.

 

 

As far as contributing "a single constructive in this entire thread" I'd point you to:

On 9/15/2020 at 11:53 AM, Troo said:

In order to help PVP gain traction those who are active would need to be able to accurately identify the things people don't like.

 

Lower level PVP has a lower barrier to entry and could therefore be more accommodating of casual or new PVP folks.

 

Expecting folks to participate at levels that require expensive highly specialized builds and be practiced in exploits in order to be successful is a fools errand.

Sure some may trigger on one or two terms which illustrates it's own point. Listening after all can be a challenge.

That @macskullgets bored by lower level pvp is irrelevant, this was about how to get folks to try PVP. Listening might be important to that end.

[Twisted Toon]

2 hours ago, Xanatos said:

All this "police your own" stuff is nonsense. Trash talkers are in every game and are not the reason PVP is unpopular in CoH. Stop being so solipsistic to assume that your own bad experiences/judgements are somehow universal.

 

The reason PVP is unpopular in this game has nothing to do with how toxic/nontoxic people are. It is for two main reasons:

• CoH PVE is insanely easy/casual/uncompetative. CoH PVP is the opposite of this
• PVE builds play differently in PVP

PVP doesn't match the PVE experience. So people hate it. It really is that simple.

What you listed was why PvPers don't like PvP in Coh.

 

I do like my characters powers to function the same whether I'm PvPing or PvEing. I think everyone would.

In my experience, in EVERY game (including CoH live) that I've played that had PvP, when I have participated in PvP, I have been attacked my multiple people on numerous occasions.

Rarely, if ever, have I been accosted by a single individual.

I don't know about you, but I don't really enjoy being on the receiving end of a Gank-fest when it's 5 against 1.

As, you might have noticed, all that I said above had nothing to do with the conversational toxicity of the PvPers that I have come into contact with.

 

But, that's just my experience.