Page 6 Preview: Sonic Manipulation, Game Balance, Piecemeal's Workshop of Horrors

[Troo]

14 hours ago, Jimmy said:

Now that you ask....

  Reveal hidden contents

nerfing regen

 

Bad Jimmy

[Patti]

All this talk of nipples.   Are we finally getting some top freedom in the game?   Considering the servers are in Canada and Germany it makes a lot of sense.

[kiramon]

The real absorb issue is Ice for sentinel. 

[carroto]

I've got mixed feelings about the new Blaster secondary.  I don't think it will be for me, but even so I greatly appreciate all the work that I'm sure must have gone into making it.  One thing that appeals about it is that it may be better suited to safe blapping.  Seems like the T1 may allow for disabling a mob long enough to stack some holds, making it safer to be in melee range.  This was always a problem for me.  Maybe I just suck at Blasters, but trying to take advantage of the damage potential of the melee attacks just got me into trouble.

 

The only thing that saved Blasters for me was hover-blasting.  Ranged only.  For that purpose this new secondary has nothing to offer over others.  Unfortunately there are only a few secondaries that (IMO) are worthwhile for hover-blasting and I'd love to get another.  Seems unlikely at this point.  Nonetheless, it's great that the blappers get a new toy.

[Golden Azrael]

On 9/22/2020 at 3:54 PM, ABlueThingy said:

Not to be impatient but I'd also like to hear what kind of changes you're considering for TA.  We've been trying to balance that one for eons and I've seen millions of suggestions and I'd love to know what direction you're going in

 

You'd have to ask Home Coming Dev's, I don't know what they're considering.

 

But the weekly discord summative discussion thread has a whole raft of suggestions from the Tricks Arrow community.  (Many of which I agreed with bar the entangle veto.  (I like it, have used it for 31+ levels and love it.). Most of it seem to be based around tweaking and enhancing the set eg. adding some damage here and there...or a debuff to heal...or trimming the cool downs or immobilise to the glue arrow.

 

Some of the longer cool downs could be trimmed.  And the stamina crunching penalty of using EMP.  Maybe a modest Heal over Time from using Entangle or something.  If I had those three changes I'd be happy.

 

I quite like Tricks active debuffing nature.  It's very good at what it does, debuffing.  Subtle and under-rated.

 

Though Tactical Arrow for blasters seems very popular.  Maybe the dev's could look there for inspiration.  But whole sale changes to Tricks aren't necessary.  

 

One idea that came to me...was getting a slight def' bonus from using the Debuffs that  could stack.  Or it could be stacked Heals over Time.  So as you debuff lots you get these stacks of Heals over Time.  ie.  Using your Debuffs buys you time to heal and recover.  

 

I quite like that water corkscrew from the water blast set that gives Heal over Time.

 

Azrael.

[arcane]

Man I hope trick arrow doesn’t get a self heal. This forum has an epidemic of players that think characters are unplayable without self heals and/or self defense in their primary/secondary that, to me, signifies players not learning to use other tools at their disposal.

[xl8]

On 9/20/2020 at 10:08 PM, Neogumbercules said:

I'm curious if electric blast and assault rifle are being adjusted.

More end drain and no rooting powers respectively would be better than simple damage boosts.

[xl8]

On 9/22/2020 at 11:11 AM, arcaneholocaust said:

Of all the trick arrow feedback they’ve received, I think a need for a consistent -regen source is surely one of the most consistent requests, so hopefully that.

That and the EMP penalty are the only thing that need addressing. Anyone asking for more just wants their favorite set buffing past everything else.

[Bossk_Hogg]

20 minutes ago, xl8 said:

That and the EMP penalty are the only thing that need addressing. Anyone asking for more just wants their favorite set buffing past everything else.

Sorry, no. TA is weak by the numbers. It's powers do one or two things, resulting in long setup for little payoff. It has been weak since release, and kept crappy by those too enamored by bows to see the poor mechanics of the set. It's debuffs are worse than radiation's, and radiation does other stuff. 

 

Look out for that single target immobilize!

[csr]

On 9/21/2020 at 1:07 PM, XaoGarrent said:

The problem with this is that the absorb was designed specifically the way it was for the purpose of sustain. It's designed, intentionally, to be a small but frequent value as it's supposed to help you shrug off/recover from a lot of small, constant hits, and in many cases recover when you get some breathing room between spawns.

 

It's not just Blasters, either. Blasters just got it universally because it was a good catch all fix for some of the problems they had, that also went well with the concept of Defiance. 

 

A lot of the newer armor sets were also intentionally given some kind of ability that helps sustain for this reason. I can't remember exactly *when* but I think it was BABs that mentioned they had an epiphany in regards to a lot of the power sets that people considered 'good' all having one thing in common: Small but constant HP (also energy) recovery in some form. Be it a passive, a toggle, or a recovering click.

 

On 9/22/2020 at 6:00 AM, XaoGarrent said:

No, but there wasn't a post where I said that, either. The error is on your side.

"Universally" is an adverb that means "in every case".

Edited September 25, 2020 by csr
Removed the snark

[csr]

On 9/22/2020 at 10:59 AM, WindDemon21 said:

Because you still have lessened health because of the easily higher attacks that got through that tiny absorb.

The Absorb-over-Time's are stronger in HP/s than the +Regen powers.  Even at capped Blaster HP (which buffs +Regen) they are about the same.  So it really comes down to your play style as to which is better.  If you have lots of time when you're not being attacked (moving slowly between spawns or with little aggro bearing onto you due to teammates, control, or whatever reason) then the +Regen will likely be better.  If you take small amounts of damage pretty much constantly then the AoTs will likely be better.¹  If you take a large amount of damage in a short time then the Awaken will be better - because you're still a Blaster.²

 

Note 1:  Fire Manipulation's Heal-over-Time is pretty much the best of both worlds, with HP/s matching the AoT's but the "down time" advantage of +Regen.  (Of course, it has no debuff, and aggros.)

Note 2:  The AoT effectively gives you a tiny bit more max HP, so is very slightly better at avoiding spike death.

Edited September 25, 2020 by csr
Clarity

[xl8]

42 minutes ago, Bossk_Hogg said:

Sorry, no. TA is weak by the numbers. It's powers do one or two things, resulting in long setup for little payoff. It has been weak since release, and kept crappy by those too enamored by bows to see the poor mechanics of the set. It's debuffs are worse than radiation's, and radiation does other stuff. 

 

Look out for that single target immobilize!

Are you going off Mids? Because my Ill/TA owns everything and has solo'd All lv54 AVs and most TFs. It's unstoppable.

[Wavicle]

24 minutes ago, xl8 said:

Are you going off Mids? Because my Ill/TA owns everything and has solo'd All lv54 AVs and most TFs. It's unstoppable.

I really like TA, but in this case I think Illusions is what's pulling the weight.

[June]

Sonic manipulation... ugh... now I just have to make another character

[WindDemon21]

59 minutes ago, csr said:

The Absorb-over-Time's are stronger in HP/s than the +Regen powers.  Even at capped Blaster HP (which buffs +Regen) they are about the same.  So it really comes down to your play style as to which is better.  If you have lots of time when you're not being attacked (moving slowly between spawns or with little aggro bearing onto you due to teammates, control, or whatever reason) then the +Regen will likely be better.  If you take small amounts of damage pretty much constantly then the AoTs will likely be better.¹  If you take a large amount of damage in a short time then the Awaken will be better - because you're still a Blaster.²

 

Note 1:  Fire Manipulation's Heal-over-Time is pretty much the best of both worlds, with HP/s matching the AoT's but the "down time" advantage of +Regen.  (Of course, it has no debuff, and aggros.)

Note 2:  The AoT effectively gives you a tiny bit more max HP, so is very slightly better at avoiding spike death.

Exactly, so the times where the absorb is better is MUCH less likely beneficial for it's amount versus the regen. To capitalize on it you would have to literally be only taking damage consistently in a burn patch or something, which is usually never the case. However, if the absorb amount was increased, at a slower proc rate, that would give you a higher absorb amount (same absorb/time) to actually be worthwhile to take harder hits at random. (ie like  if you have aoe knockdown powers like energy blast, you attack with the shield, and with your first volley they hit you, take the absorb shield, but then are on their butts in the 4-5 seconds before the next absorb tic procs, and then you have more absorb again. It's numbers, and in no way would it not be more beneficial to have a higher absorb amount at a slower proc rate to equal the same absorb/second.

[Wavicle]

Just now, WindDemon21 said:

Exactly, so the times where the absorb is better is MUCH less likely beneficial for it's amount versus the regen. To capitalize on it you would have to literally be only taking damage consistently in a burn patch or something, which is usually never the case. However, if the absorb amount was increased, at a slower proc rate, that would give you a higher absorb amount (same absorb/time) to actually be worthwhile to take harder hits at random. (ie like  if you have aoe knockdown powers like energy blast, you attack with the shield, and with your first volley they hit you, take the absorb shield, but then are on their butts in the 4-5 seconds before the next absorb tic procs, and then you have more absorb again. It's numbers, and in no way would it not be more beneficial to have a higher absorb amount at a slower proc rate to equal the same absorb/second.

But it’s not supposed to spare you the damage of big hits. It’s supposed to help you avoid death by a thousand cuts. The regen powers do LESS to spare you big hits.

[WindDemon21]

Just now, Wavicle said:

But it’s not supposed to spare you the damage of big hits. It’s supposed to help you avoid death by a thousand cuts. The regen powers do LESS to spare you big hits.

Except when you survive those, which you have at least 90% more chance to do so, and regenerate the health back. The absorb amount is TOO little to matter much beyond that initial 10% more damage, which in most cases you only take that one spike, and is then otherwise useless. It's absorb, it IS supposed to spare you from the up front damage, and currently the amount is too low to do what it's supposed to properly.

[Wavicle]

4 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

Except when you survive those, which you have at least 90% more chance to do so, and regenerate the health back. The absorb amount is TOO little to matter much beyond that initial 10% more damage, which in most cases you only take that one spike, and is then otherwise useless. It's absorb, it IS supposed to spare you from the up front damage, and currently the amount is too low to do what it's supposed to properly.

I don't agree. As I pointed out before, the Absorbs ALSO have debuffs attached (Reaction Time, Frigid Protection), come in a set that ALSO gets a heal (Inner Will) or also gets additional powerful aoe mitigation effects (Ice Patch, Time Shift, Spore Cloud).

Seriously, the argument that (lol) Temporal, Plant, Ice, and Martial Combat are disadvantageously squishier than other blasters is crazy. Those are some of the strongest blaster secondaries for self protection.

[csr]

8 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

Exactly, so the times where the absorb is better is MUCH less likely beneficial for it's amount versus the regen. To capitalize on it you would have to literally be only taking damage consistently in a burn patch or something, which is usually never the case. However, if the absorb amount was increased, at a slower proc rate, that would give you a higher absorb amount (same absorb/time) to actually be worthwhile to take harder hits at random. (ie like  if you have aoe knockdown powers like energy blast, you attack with the shield, and with your first volley they hit you, take the absorb shield, but then are on their butts in the 4-5 seconds before the next absorb tic procs, and then you have more absorb again. It's numbers, and in no way would it not be more beneficial to have a higher absorb amount at a slower proc rate to equal the same absorb/second.

I actually find the two fairly well balanced.  But then I solo a lot, so I take a fair amount of damage regularly.  If I need healing between fights I use greens or Rest.

 

One problem I didn't address is that 5 of the 8 +Regen sustains are clicks (Dark, Elect, En, Mental and Ninjitsu).  All the AoTs and the HoT are toggles (as are the +Regen sustains in Atom, Devices and Tac Arrow).

[Wavicle]

3 minutes ago, csr said:

One problem I didn't address is that 5 of the 8 +Regen sustains are clicks (Dark, Elect, En, Mental and Ninjitsu).  All the AoTs and the HoT are toggles (as are the +Regen sustains in Atom, Devices and Tac Arrow).

What's the problem? They are all either perma out of the box or easily permaable, and the one (Energize) that isn't perma gets other advantages (the End Discount is EXTREMELY powerful, and the click gives you a Heal in addition to +Regen).

[csr]

7 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

What's the problem? They are all either perma out of the box or easily permaable, and the one (Energize) that isn't perma gets other advantages (the End Discount is EXTREMELY powerful, and the click gives you a Heal in addition to +Regen).

They take time to cast (lowering your DPS) and can't be cast while mezzed.  You also either need to monitor your buffs or end up casting them more than necessary (they don't stack).  None of those are major drawbacks, but they are drawbacks relative to the toggles.

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, csr said:

They take time to cast (lowering your DPS) and can't be cast while mezzed.  You also either need to monitor your buffs or end up casting them more than necessary (they don't stack).  None of those are major drawbacks, but they are drawbacks relative to the toggles.

Those same qualities also give them advantages. Please correct me if I'm wrong, my understanding was that the toggles suppress if you get mezzed, while the click powers don't. And aside from Energize the other clicks also are useful in other ways besides just the sustain, providing mez, soft control, or something else.

[csr]

13 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

Those same qualities also give them advantages. Please correct me if I'm wrong, my understanding was that the toggles suppress if you get mezzed, while the click powers don't. And aside from Energize the other clicks also are useful in other ways besides just the sustain, providing mez, soft control, or something else.

I don't think the self-centered components suppress.  I assumed that was why Cauterizing Aura doesn't show the damage component - because it's actually a 2nd power that suppresses.  (Frigid Protection also shows only the self-centered components in the Detailed Info.)  I'll check that when I get a chance.  I do find casting Force of Thunder all the time to be tiresome though.  Even with the KB and Stun components.  I feel guilty putting it on auto in Hami raids and the like too, since it's so annoying when run every 10.5s (and at that cast rate it eats 11% of my DPS).

Edited September 25, 2020 by csr

[HelBlaiz]

Dark definitely has the worst. Single target with a chance to MISS! Buff that please!

[Wavicle]

6 minutes ago, csr said:

I don't think the self-centered components suppress.  I assumed that was why Cauterizing Aura doesn't show the damage component - because it's actually a 2nd power that suppresses.  (Frigid Protection also shows only the self-centered components in the Detailed Info.)  I'll check that when I get a chance.  I do find casting Force of Thunder all the time to be tiresome though.  Even with the KB and Stun components.  I feel guilty putting it on auto in Hami raids and the like too, since it's so annoying when run every 10.5s (and at that cast rate it eats 11% of my DPS).

Ah well, that's my mistake then.

My first toon, and still one of my favorites, is an Energy/Energy Blaster. With her build getting very good I am now able to cast Energize REACTIVELY. I no longer need it up all the time. But regardless of that, putting that ability on auto absolutely cuts heavily into DPS and is a big mistake, don't do that.