Focused Feedback: Blaster Secondary Revamp

Jacke · November 13, 2020

2 hours ago, Rodion said:

/bind ctrl+1 "powexeclocation target Oil Slick Arrow"

You're overwriting an immensely useful default bind. CTRL+1 through CTRL+0 activates the powers/macros in Tray 3 Slots 1 to 10, just as ALT+1 to ALT+0 activates the powers/macros in Tray 2 Slots 1 to 10. I use them quite a bit in my standard tray stack.

Jimmy · November 13, 2020

Release Candidate 1 - November 13th, 2020

Blaster Secondary Revamp

After the game shut down, several new Blaster secondary sets were developed (eg: Tactical Arrow, Atomic Manipulation, Plant Manipulation), but these sets were generally quite overtuned in the crowd control department, whilst also lacking in incentives to get into melee range - both of these factors contributed towards the sets being a tad too safe.

Additionally, most of the legacy sets received some changes in the i24 beta just before the game shut down that were never really followed up on. This ended up with several sets (eg: Ice Manipulation, Electrical Manipulation, Energy Manipulation) being slight underperformers, especially compared to the new sets.

This round of changes aims to level the playing field for Blaster secondary sets, both towards each other and towards dedicated crowd control ATs. In general, you'll see many of the underperforming sets receive several buffs (both in terms of damage and survivability), alongside some reductions in the crowd control capabilities of most sets.

Tactical Arrow

Electrified Net Arrow
- Range reduced from 80ft to 60ft to be in line with other Blaster Manipulation T1 Immobilize powers
- Endurance cost increased from 5.2 to 7.8 to be in line with other Blaster Manipulation T1 Immobilize powers
Ice Arrow
- Range reduced from 80ft to 60ft to be in line with other Blaster Manipulation ST mez powers
- Recharge increased from 12s to 16s
- Hold changed from Mag 3, Scale 12 to:
  - Mag 2, Scale 10 (non stacking)
  - Mag 1, Scale 6 (stacking)
Upshot
- +Recharge buff reduced to from 30% to 15%
- +Damage buff reduced from 100% to 81.25%
- +ToHit reduced from 20% to 15%
Flash Arrow
- This power's effects are no longer irresistible
  - This brings it in line with Smoke Grenade, which has always been resistable
Gymnastics (Replaces Agility)
- Gymnastics and Agility have been merged into a new toggle power
- Provides knockback protection, a 1.75% defence buff, a recharge bonus, a movement speed buff and some slow / mez protection
- If you previously had Agility, you now have Gymnastics
- The Jump bonus has been removed (the run speed bonus remains), but the travel power stacking restrictions have been removed
ESD Arrow
- Hold now only applies to robots
- Hold changed from Mag 3, Scale 8 to:
  - Mag 2, Scale 8 (non stacking)
  - Mag 1, Scale 5 (stacking)
- Added Stun against all foes (does not override the robot hold):
  - Mag 2, Scale 8 (non stacking)
  - Mag 1, Scale 5 (stacking)
- Now accepts Stun enhancements and sets
Oil Slick Arrow (Replaced Gymnastics)
- Similar to the Trick Arrow version, but does not have a defence debuff and only has a 15ft radius
- If you previously had Gymnastics, you now have Oil Slick Arrow
Power Order Changes

Spoiler

Electrified Net Arrow
Glue Arrow
Ice Arrow
Upshot
Flash Arrow
Eagle Eye
Gymnastics (Replaces Agility, merged with T9)
ESD Arrow
Oil Slick Arrow (Replaces Gymnastics)

Atomic Manipulation

Electron Shackles
- Range increased from 50ft to 60ft to be in line with other Blaster Manipulation T1 Immobilize powers
Positron Cell
- Hold changed from Mag 3, Scale 12 to:
  - Mag 2, Scale 10 (non stacking)
  - Mag 1, Scale 6 (stacking)
Radioactive Cloud
- Hold effect has been adjusted:
  - 50% chance of hold by choking - choking foes might actually counterattack if hit
  - 50% chance of hold by barfing - barfing foes will continue emptying their stomachs until the duration of the hold expires

Darkness Manipulation

Penumbral Grasp
- Range increased from 50ft to 60ft to be in line with other Blaster Manipulation T1 Immobilize powers
Touch of the Beyond
- Increased the duration of the self buff from 60s to 120s
- The self buff now also provides Fear protection
- The self buff now auto-hits, regardless of if the enemy-targeting portion of this power hits
- Added a short, non-enhanceable Mag 3 Hold (in PvE only)
- The regeneration buff should no longer be weaker when used against higher or lower level enemies
- Fixed the duraton of the PvE Terrorize Protection
Dark Pit
- Recharge time increased from 60s to 90s
- Endurance cost increased from 13 to 20.18
- Stun changed from Mag 2, Scale 12 to:
  - Mag 2, Scale 8 (non stacking)
  - Mag 1, Scale 5 (stacking)

Devices

Toxic Web Grenade
- Range increased from 50ft to 60ft to be in line with other Blaster Manipulation T1 Immobilize powers
Taser
- Fixed this power doing PvE damage in PvP
Field Operative
- This power now has a No Fade customization them
  - Selecting this theme will stop the power from fading the player body
Gun Drone
- Now has 80% resistance to all damage
- Taunt aura reduced to 8ft, mag 3, max of 4 targets
- Death explosion now has a knockup component
- Fixed an issue with resistance buffs not stacking properly

Electrical Manipulation

Electric Fence
- Range increased from 50ft to 60ft to be in line with other Blaster Manipulation T1 Immobilize powers
Thunder Strike
- Cast Time reduced from 3.3s to 2.53s
Dynamo (renamed from Lightning Field)
- Moved from T3 to T6 (see Power Order Changes below)
- Is now the sustain power in the set (along with the existing damage aura component)
  - No longer has an endurance cost to run
  - Provides a Recovery and Regeneration buff
- If you are concealed (from Stealth or a similar power) this power will not impact foes unless you are in combat (it will no longer accidentally break stealth)
- If you had Force of Thunder, it will now be replaced by Dynamo and keep the same enhancements from Force of Thunder
Force of Thunder
- Moved from T6 to T8 (see Power Order Changes below)
- No longer provides a sustain buff
- Stun changed from Mag 2, Scale 8 to:
  - Mag 2, Scale 8 (non stacking)
  - Mag 1, Scale 5 (stacking)
- Knockback chance increased from 30% to 100%
- If you had Lightning Field, it will now be replaced by Force of Thunder and keep the enhancements from Lightning Field
Power Order Changes

Spoiler

Electric Fence
Charged Brawl
Build Up (moved down from T5)
Havok Punch
Thunder Strike (moved down from T7)
Dynamo (moved up from T3, renamed from Lightning Field)
Power Sink (moved down from T8)
Force of Thunder (moved up from T6)
Shocking Grasp

Fire Manipulation

Ring of Fire
- Range increased from 50ft to 60ft to be in line with other Blaster Manipulation T1 Immobilize powers
Cauterizing Aura
- If you are concealed (from Stealth or a similar power) this power will not impact foes unless you are in combat (it will no longer accidentally break stealth)

Energy Manipulation

Energize
- Now provides a small amount of Stun protection (PvE only)
Stun
- Recharge reduced from 20s to 14s
- This power now has synergy with Power Boost and Boost Range
  - With Boost Range active, this power becomes a ranged Stun
  - With Power Boost active, this power becomes an AoE (instead of boosting its duration)
- Stun will have an orange ring whenever either of these buffs are active
  - As highlight rings can only be one color, Power Boost and Boost Range are also getting a pale white ring to make it easier to know if their buffs are still active, without having to look at the buff bar
- Full combo details:
  - Stun = 14s recharge, 7ft range, Mag 3 scale 10 stun, single target
  - Stun + Boost Range = 14s recharge, 60ft range, Mag 2 scale 10 stun + Mag 1 scale 6 stun, single targets
  - Stun + Power Boost = 90s recharge, 7ft range, Mag 2 scale 5 stun + Mag 1 Scale 2.5 stun, AoE (10 targets)
  - Stun + Power Boost + Boost Range = 90s recharge, 60ft range, Mag 2 scale 5 stun + Mag 1 Scale 2.5 stun, AoE (10 targets)
Total Focus
- Cast time reduced from 3.3 seconds to 2.53 seconds

Ice Manipulation

Chilblain
- Range increased from 50ft to 60ft to be in line with other Blaster Manipulation T1 Immobilize powers
Frigid Protection
- Absorb has been adjusted to match Cauterizing Aura's Heal per Second and can now stack up for up to 12 seconds
- No longer shows floating numbers by default
  - A new "Show Floaters" theme is available if you prefer seeing the Absorb numbers
- If you are concealed (from Stealth or a similar power) this power will not impact foes unless you are in combat (it will no longer accidentally break stealth)
Shiver
- Half of the debuff now lasts 60 seconds (previously the entire debuff dropped off after 15 seconds, now only half of it does)
Freezing Touch
- DoT on this power now lasts 10s, delivering additional cold damage ticks (11, up from 6)
Frozen Aura
- This power now inflicts damage and accepts damage enhancements and sets
- Sleep changed from Mag 2, Scale 20 to:
  - Mag 2, Scale 20 (non stacking)
  - Mag 1, Scale 12 (stacking)

Martial Combat

Ki Push
- Damage lowered from scale 1.32 to scale 1.0
- Recharge time reduced from 6s to 4s
Reaction Time
- Absorb has been adjusted to match Cauterizing Aura's Heal per Second and can now stack up for up to 12 seconds
- No longer shows floating numbers by default
  - A new "Show Floaters" theme is available if you prefer seeing the Absorb numbers
- If you are concealed (from Stealth or a similar power) this power will not impact foes unless you are in combat (it will no longer accidentally break stealth)
- Fixed power customization labels
Throw Sand
- Stun changed from Mag 3, Scale 12 to:
  - Mag 2, Scale 8 (non stacking)
  - Mag 1, Scale 5 (stacking)
Eagles Claw
- This power now has a chance to cause lethal internal bleeding damage over time, similar to the set's Storm Kick

Mental Manipulation

Subdual
- The range of this power is not being adjusted and will remain at 80ft as increased range is part of the secondary effects for Mental / Psionic powers
Telekinetic Thrust
- Recharge increased from 6 seconds to 16s
- Cast Time reduced from 2.07s to 1.67s
- Damage Scale increased from 0.8 to 2.92 (per the standard damage formulas)
- Moved from T3 to T9 (see Power Order Changes below)
World of Confusion
- Moved from T7 to T3 (see Power Order Changes below)
Scare
- Moved from T8 to T7 (see Power Order Changes below)
Psychic Shockwave
- Moved from T7 to T8 (see Power Order Changes below)
Power Order Changes

Spoiler

Subdual
Mind Probe
World of Confusion (moved down from from T7)
Psychic Scream
Concentration
Drain Psyche
Scare (moved down from T8)
Psychic Shockwave (moved down from T9)
Telekinetic Thrust (moved up from T3)

Ninja Training

Immobilizing Dart
- Toxic damage over time doubled to bring it in line with other single target immobilize powers
- Range increased from 50ft to 60ft to be in line with other Blaster Manipulation T1 Immobilize powers
Sting of the Wasp
- Recharge increased from 5s to 10s
- Damage increased accordingly (per the standard damage formulas)
Choking Powder
- Hold changed from Mag 3, Scale 8 to:
  - Mag 2, Scale 10 (non stacking)
  - Mag 1, Scale 6 (stacking)
Shinobi
- No longer grants a damage buff outside of stealth
- Now grants the caster a 20% chance to inflict lethal criticals with every attack
  - The amount of damage will be based on the recharge time of the power
  - Usually this will be 80% of the standard damage formula
  - This bonus damage ignores enhancements and damage buffs
- Movement buffs have been removed (they are not present on live)
The Lotus Drops
- Recharge decreased from 28s to 14s
  - This was much higher than intended
Blinding Powder
- Sleep magnitude increased from 2 to 3
- Chance for Confuse mag increased from 2 to 3
- Chance for Confuse scale lowered from scale 20 to scale 8
- Accuracy lowered to 0.8 (to match other AoE CC powers)
Golden Dragonfly
- Recharge increased from 12s to 20s
- Damage increased accordingly (per the standard damage formulas)

Plant Manipulation

Entangle
- Range increased from 50ft to 60ft to be in line with other Blaster Manipulation T1 Immobilize powers
Skewer
- Cast Time reduced from 1.67s to 1.23
Strangler
- Hold changed from Mag 3, Scale 12 to:
  - Mag 2, Scale 10 (non stacking)
  - Mag 1, Scale 6 (stacking)
Spore Cloud
- Moved from T9 to T5 (see Power Order Changes below)
- No longer grants a Defiance buff
  - As a toggle, it never should've given one
- -Regeneration debuff now scales with player level
  - -59.32% at level 20
  - -80.33% at level 40
  - -90.83% at level 50
Wild Fortress
- Absorb has been adjusted to match Cauterizing Aura's Heal per Second and can now stack up for up to 12 seconds
- No longer shows floating numbers by default
  - A new "Show Floaters" theme is available if you prefer seeing the Absorb numbers
- VFX will now stay active as long as the toggle is active
Vines
- Hold effect has been adjusted:
  - 50% chance to hold foes at scale 8 mag 2 + scale 5 mag 1
  - Foes not held in this way will be held for scale 1.5 mag 2 and immobilized for 17.88s
- This power can now be enhanced for immobilization
Thorn Burst
- Moved from T5 to T9 (see Power Order Changes below)
- Cast time reduced from 3s to 2s
Power Order Changes

Spoiler

Entangle
Skewer
Strangler
Toxins
Spore Cloud (moved down from T9)
Wild Fortress
Ripper
Vines
Thorn Burst (moved up from T5)

Temporal Manipulation

Time Wall
- Now inflicts scale 1 energy damage to bring it in line with other single target immobilize powers
- Now accepts Damage enhancements and sets
- Range increased from 50ft to 60ft to be in line with other Blaster Manipulation T1 Immobilize powers
Aging Touch
- Base damage slightly reduced from 1.32 to 1.02
  - This power was doing more damage than intended
Time Stop
- Hold changed from Mag 3, Scale 8 to:
  - Mag 2, Scale 10 (non stacking)
  - Mag 1, Scale 6 (stacking)
Temporal Healing
- Absorb has been adjusted to match Cauterizing Aura's Heal per Second and can now stack up for up to 12 seconds
- No longer shows floating numbers by default
  - A new "Show Floaters" theme is available if you prefer seeing the Absorb numbers
- Fixed a timing bug in the non-absorb buffs this power provided that caused intermittent buffing
Future Pain
- Recharge increased from 11s to 18s
- Endurance cost increased from 11.024 to 16.848
- Damage increased accordingly (by about 52.8%, per the standard damage formulas)
End of Time
- Recharge decreased from 22s to 17s
- Endurance cost decreased from 20.176 to 16.016
- Damage decreased from scale 1.552 to 1.232 (per the standard damage formulas)
Time Shift
- Stun changed from Mag 3, Scale 8 to:
  - Mag 2, Scale 8 (non stacking)
  - Mag 1, Scale 5 (stacking)

Architect Entertainment

AE versions of these powersets have been updated with missing powers and to match current power effects

TC · November 13, 2020

Quote

If you previously had Agility, you now have Gymnastics

The Jump bonus has been removed (the run speed bonus remains), but the travel power stacking restrictions have been removed

Rename it Agility again? Gymnasts do far more jumping than running.

Crasical · November 13, 2020

30 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

Shinobi
Movement buffs have been removed (they are not present on live)

Jimmy no, Jimmy why?!

Vanden · November 13, 2020

Just now, Crasical said:

Jimmy no, Jimmy why?!

Because the conundrum of stacking it with Combat Jumping has to be solved to allow that, and there's no time for that now.

Coyote · November 13, 2020

2 hours ago, Rodion said:

Given this capability, one could argue that location-based powers are preferable because they're more flexible -- they can be used both ways with a couple of keybind assignments.

Absolutely agree. It's a minor hassle to set up, for a great improvement in flexibility. And it especially multiplies when you have multiple powers... my Ice/TA Blaster would love to be able to drop more and more powers out of LOS. Blizzard, Ice Storm, Glue Arrow, OSA, Bonfire... it's like Indirect Fire in Battletech. Now, if I only had the option to reskin attacks as missiles, and I'd totally make a mecha-style missile suit 😁

Crasical · November 13, 2020

4 minutes ago, Vanden said:

Because the conundrum of stacking it with Combat Jumping has to be solved to allow that, and there's no time for that now.

I thought they walked back the whole non-stacking movement powers change?

Jimmy · November 13, 2020

Just now, Crasical said:

I thought they walked back the whole non-stacking movement powers change?

Correct. It's back to how it was on live - Shinobi has no movement bonus.

Crasical · November 13, 2020

1 minute ago, Jimmy said:

Correct. It's back to how it was on live - Shinobi has no movement bonus.

🙃
Okay so you gave it a movement bonus (So that it matched the Scrapper and sentinel version, Shinobi-Iri) BUT made that movement bonus not stack with most other movement boosts.

And now the stacking limitation has been removed; but you also removed the movement bonus.

Alright, sure.

ABlueThingy · November 13, 2020

11 minutes ago, Crasical said:

🙃
Okay so you gave it a movement bonus (So that it matched the Scrapper and sentinel version, Shinobi-Iri) BUT made that movement bonus not stack with most other movement boosts.

And now the stacking limitation has been removed; but you also removed the movement bonus.

Alright, sure.

Looks like the Dev reasoning went:

"Oh, we should add the movement boosts to the blaster version too, that would be nice."

"Wait, historically these kinds of buffs don't stack. We don't really have a good reason to break that rule right now so let's remove stacking"

"Oh, everyone hates that. But we still don't have a good reason to break that rule. Guess we'll shelve these changes until we have more time to work on it"

but that's just what it looks like from my pov

Rejolt · November 13, 2020

I’m 1 part sad, 2 parts happy for the reversion. I wish Gymnastics jumped higher and Ninjitsu ran faster on blasters but hopefully there’s a rework that makes those of us used to Scrap/Sent movement from live as is happier (suggestion - let these two have speed cap increases so they’d still need other travel powers but would get more from them)

EDIT: The No stacking thing depresses me to the point I basically stopped testing. So reverting is the best thing for now.

Edited November 13, 2020 by Rejolt

ForeverLaxx · November 13, 2020

3 hours ago, ABlueThingy said:

But we still don't have a good reason to break that rule.

I would think the fact that "breaking this rule" hurt literally no one and was still weaker than standard movement powers would have been enough to keep them stacking while giving Shinobi the movement bonus, but hey. Apparently "nice change that hurts no one" isn't good enough by dev standards.

I also see that Tac Arrow gets to retain its nerfs to its range, which means my A/TA Blaster just became a TA/A Defender.

Rejolt · November 14, 2020

9 hours ago, TC said:

Rename it Agility again? Gymnasts do far more jumping than running.

I actually like this idea even if you have to call it Hyperagility or Tactical Training

Recovery8 · November 14, 2020

They're still holding ground on tac arrow changes huh? After testing I really dislike our T9 being another sets T8 with no added benefits to it. Outside of the fact it's a lazy T9 the fact is people are going to struggle to take it with the limited amount of slots folks already have. Not to mention the sets lack of a melee attack at all feels so strange to have the reduced range on an archer. I've said it before, I've tested the changes and I still heavily disagree with the range nerfs and think OSA should be completely replaced with something actually unique to the set. Other than that with this being the potential live build I'm not impressed and will be shelving both TA characters.

Jacke · November 14, 2020

3 hours ago, Recovery8 said:

They're still holding ground on tac arrow changes huh?

Everyone's tired. Issue 27 Page 1 is a lot of good work. With some things some of us think aren't the best choices and other issues unaddressed.

The points of disagreement may cause some people to shelve some toons. But none of those points are big enough to completely break the game.

To continue the arguments now is just holding up the whole lot of good that's in i27p1.

Which is same as for every Issue of City that's been released before.

It's been an intense beta testing stretch (many months for the devs). Now i27p1 is moving to Release Candidate.

Focus is on catching bugs and typos, ie. what the changes are supposed to be is what's implement on the Beta Shards, no matter what is felt about the changes.

This City, maintenance and updates, is brought to us by a lot of people who've done a lot of good work--in their spare time, their leisure hours, instead of relaxing and having fun.

They want to have their leisure time back, including playing City. Instead of working in the computing sewers and having to arguing with all and sundre about how the plumbing should be.

There'll be another day to see how those changes play out once released. To think about them and what can be done differently.

To make careful considered suggestions for change when everyone is much more rested.

Coyote · November 14, 2020

8 hours ago, Rejolt said:

I actually like this idea even if you have to call it Hyperagility or Tactical Training

Call it parkour

Coyote · November 14, 2020

5 hours ago, Recovery8 said:

I really dislike our T9 being another sets T8 with no added benefits to it. ... I still heavily disagree with the range nerfs and think OSA should be completely replaced with something actually unique

Wait a minute here.

On the one hand, you're completely right... something actually unique as the T9 would be GREAT.

But... OSA is already made. They don't have to develop a new power and test it. Combining Gymnastics and Agility saves a power pick for those who don't want OSA. Those who DO want OSA are getting a very nice useful power.

This is really a good change for the set. Sure, it could be better, but the argument "It would be better if it were a new, better power"... is one that could almost always be applied to almost all major set changes. Frankly, Tactical Arrow was already a good set, and combining Gym/Agil and adding OSA is clearly an improvement. Especially given how well OSA works with a damaging Glue Arrow... and more-so if you run it with Ice, Fire, or Water Blast for the added DoT patch, and how Bonfire is available at that level to stack with the "slow and burn" effects.

Blackbird71 · November 14, 2020

18 hours ago, Jimmy said:

Gymnastics and Agility have been merged into a new toggle power
Provides knockback protection, a 1.75% defence buff, a recharge bonus, a movement speed buff and some slow / mez protection

If you previously had Agility, you now have Gymnastics

The Jump bonus has been removed (the run speed bonus remains), but the travel power stacking restrictions have been removed

Doesn't that defeat the whole meaning of "Gymnastics"? Gymnastics always seemed to involve a lot more jumping than running; this is a complete loss of the flavor and fun of the power. Renaming it Agility really wouldn't work either for the same reasons.

2 hours ago, Jacke said:

The points of disagreement may cause some people to shelve some toons. But none of those points are big enough to completely break the game.

But what exactly is it about the current live version that breaks the game and requires a change? That is what has been unable to be articulated, and it makes these changes feel like unnecessarily negative.

31 minutes ago, Coyote said:

Wait a minute here.

On the one hand, you're completely right... something actually unique as the T9 would be GREAT.

But... OSA is already made. They don't have to develop a new power and test it. Combining Gymnastics and Agility saves a power pick for those who don't want OSA. Those who DO want OSA are getting a very nice useful power.

This is really a good change for the set. Sure, it could be better, but the argument "It would be better if it were a new, better power"... is one that could almost always be applied to almost all major set changes. Frankly, Tactical Arrow was already a good set, and combining Gym/Agil and adding OSA is clearly an improvement. Especially given how well OSA works with a damaging Glue Arrow... and more-so if you run it with Ice, Fire, or Water Blast for the added DoT patch, and how Bonfire is available at that level to stack with the "slow and burn" effects.

Keep in mind that the OSA being given to Tac Arrow is not just a T8 from another set; it's a worse version of what another set gets for its T8.

18 hours ago, Jimmy said:

Oil Slick Arrow (Replaced Gymnastics)
Similar to the Trick Arrow version, but does not have a defence debuff and only has a 15ft radius

I really don't like having OSA as Tac Arrow's T9, and I have no intention of using it. But at the very least, why not make it a direct copy instead of a watered down version of a T8? Maybe I missed something, but I have yet to see this rationale explained.

All in all, these changes will shelve my character.

Jacke · November 14, 2020

34 minutes ago, Blackbird71 said:

But what exactly is it about the current live version that breaks the game and requires a change? That is what has been unable to be articulated, and it makes these changes feel like unnecessarily negative.

@Jimmy, @Number Six, help me out here.

For various reasons, including serious reasons--Issue 27 Page 1 is now on RC and will soon release.
Blaster Secondaries Revamp is going into i27p1 as considering the work done to get it here, just to kick it to i27p2 would be wrong.
Tactical Arrow changes in i27p1 won't be further revised, limited, or not included for similar reasons.
Anything wrong with the Tactical Arrow changes--like the damn ranges--or the rest of i27p1, can be tolerated.
Further changes to Tactical Arrow--or better yet, a pass over many power ranges--are better addressed in the future aiming at i27p2.

I don't like a number of those choices, particularly #3, but I understand why they are the way they are.

You can look at a number of my posts in this topic. I don't like the ranges in Tactical Arrow. I want a number of other things too, some of them even more than fixing Tactical Arrow.

But I also realise there are times when it's best to find a different way, a better way to achieve the goals you desire.

Don't like the way Tactical Arrow ended up? After i27p1 is released, test it thoroughly, make notes. Post about it as a start to respectful pushback.

Get connected into the process for i27p2. Work to include a revision to Tactical Arrow there. Convince others they should consider it and include it.

It's what I'm planning to do to include what I'd like to see in i27p2.

Edited November 14, 2020 by Jacke

Jacke · November 14, 2020

19 hours ago, Jimmy said:

Gymnastics (Replaces Agility)
Gymnastics and Agility have been merged into a new toggle power

Provides knockback protection, a 1.75% defence buff, a recharge bonus, a movement speed buff and some slow / mez protection

If you previously had Agility, you now have Gymnastics

The Jump bonus has been removed (the run speed bonus remains), but the travel power stacking restrictions have been removed

47 minutes ago, Blackbird71 said:

Doesn't that defeat the whole meaning of "Gymnastics"? Gymnastics always seemed to involve a lot more jumping than running; this is a complete loss of the flavor and fun of the power. Renaming it Agility really wouldn't work either for the same reasons.

The name isn't quite right, calling it Gymnastics. Could ask for the name to be changed ("Archer's Determination" say). That might be able to be included.

BUT if you want in a later change the power to include jumping etc., especially if also justifying changing power stacking, then you may want to leave the name at Gymnastics, as ill suited as that is now.

Rejolt · November 14, 2020

3 hours ago, Coyote said:

Call it parkour

Which would make me want Air control and jumping lol

CaptainLupis · November 14, 2020

2 hours ago, Jacke said:

The name isn't quite right, calling it Gymnastics. Could ask for the name to be changed ("Archer's Determination" say). That might be able to be included.

BUT if you want in a later change the power to include jumping etc., especially if also justifying changing power stacking, then you may want to leave the name at Gymnastics, as ill suited as that is now.

I'd just call it tactical movement, or positioning, and be done. It certainly doesn't warrant being called gymnastics.

Edited November 14, 2020 by CaptainLupis

Recovery8 · November 14, 2020

Sounds a whole lot like quit talking about tactical arrow. It's a feedback thread, the feedback is the changes do not feel good. Range, OSA, those are the big issues and it has been directly ignored with one mention of "But mental tho". I get it, good stuff did come from the page but that doesn't make tac arrows changes any less disappointing and I'm going to say I don't like them.

OSA feels so incredibly lazy. It's not even a matte of it not being a new power. It's a matter of it being a worse version of OSA which in itself is not a T9. Regardless of it is a "good" power or not is irrelevant. I'm not happy, I see no reason to stop talking about the one thing from the page that I feel was a bad move. Increase the ranges back to 80, reduce mag for ice and ena. OSA if it's going to stay should at least feel like. Proper T9.

Jacke · November 14, 2020

8 minutes ago, CaptainLupis said:

I'd just call it tactical movement, or positioning, and be done. It certainly doesn't warrant being called gymnastics.

No, it doesn't warrant being called "Gymnastics". But if you're wanting next time to rip up the floor to get it right, don't think it's a good idea to fix the baseboards quite yet.

Jimmy · November 14, 2020

15 minutes ago, Recovery8 said:

OSA feels so incredibly lazy. It's not even a matte of it not being a new power. It's a matter of it being a worse version of OSA which in itself is not a T9. Regardless of it is a "good" power or not is irrelevant.

Arguments about the origins of Oil Slick Arrow don't really hold up. Most Blaster secondary powers are similar to powers from other sets, including many of the T9s, and not all of the powers they are derived from are T9s themselves. Almost all (possibly all, I've not checked) of these powers also have had changes made specifically for the Blaster version.

You need to look at the set as a whole really, even if some of the power ordering doesn't entirely make sense. Fiery Manipulation > Hot Feet is a good example of this. More powerful powers being earlier in the set is actually a net positive for the set, as it allows it to peak earlier.

With that in mind, feedback on the set overall is still welcome, and we will be paying attention to the feedback as these changes go live.

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