Focused Feedback: Other Powers Changes

[ScarySai]

Also not a huge fan of ToF in it's current state. If it activated much faster I'd like it more. Two seconds is so sluggish for such a spammy power.

[Solarverse]

Touch of the Beyond change:

Why? I mean, the biggest complain about Dark secondary for blasters is that Touch of the Beyond being a click power that requires a target just to get the boost for Endurance is just simply too much to even play the set. I made a post on the suggestion forums about this, switching Death Shroud for Touch of the Beyond and then giving Death Shroud the Endurance Boost instead. That would put it in line with the other Blaster Secondaries and wouldn't require the power to be such a nuisance.  Further info on this thread...
 

My point is, that Dark Secondary is the second least played set in game for blasters, only missing the mark for being the least played set by 11 players....11.

I would really like to play a themed Dark/Dark Blaster, but even with these proposed changes, I just can't and won't. I don't expect to see those numbers go up any. Sure, you may get some players to roll one with Dark as secondary just to try it out, which will falsify the numbers, but I am willing to bet they will not be leveling to 50 once they realize that the changes just aren't worth it.

Just asking that you Devs please consider this and please read the thread listed above. At the end of the day, it's your baby...but I would like to play a Dark/Dark Blaster, but even with these current changes...? I just can't.

[Hew]

The spammy potential of ToF I can totally see. But then, there are builds that run on ~3 power attack chains. That has to be equally boring. Are there other options you can mix in for more damage but maybe less aoe potential but more st? I use ToF as trash clearing, and bring in other attacks as a mix for other purposes.

[Myrmidon]

4 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

Touch of the Beyond change:

Why? I mean, the biggest complain about Dark secondary for blasters is that Touch of the Beyond being a click power that requires a target just to get the boost for Endurance is just simply too much to even play the set. I made a post on the suggestion forums about this, switching Death Shroud for Touch of the Beyond and then giving Death Shroud the Endurance Boost instead. That would put it in line with the other Blaster Secondaries and wouldn't require the power to be such a nuisance.  Further info on this thread...
 

My point is, that Dark Secondary is the second least played set in game for blasters, only missing the mark for being the least played set by 11 players....11.

I would really like to play a themed Dark/Dark Blaster, but even with these proposed changes, I just can't and won't. I don't expect to see those numbers go up any. Sure, you may get some players to roll one with Dark as secondary just to try it out, which will falsify the numbers, but I am willing to bet they will not be leveling to 50 once they realize that the changes just aren't worth it.

Just asking that you Devs please consider this and please read the thread listed above. At the end of the day, it's your baby...but I would like to play a Dark/Dark Blaster, but even with these current changes...? I just can't.

My Dark/Dark Blaster is 41 and is now awaiting this update to continue the journey. The changes to Touch of the Beyond actually make it playable to me, however, now that it works on phased enemies with a two minute duration, it could use a scaling pass.

[Solarverse]

1 minute ago, Myrmidon said:

My Dark/Dark Blaster is 41 and is now awaiting this update to continue the journey. The changes to Touch of the Beyond actually make it playable to me, however, now that it works on phased enemies with a two minute duration, it could use a scaling pass.

I'm going to keep an eye on the numbers to see how many people level to 50 after the change goes live and then compare the new statistics. However, I will not be included in those statistics since for me personally, it's still not worth it.

[Solarverse]

5 minutes ago, Myrmidon said:

My Dark/Dark Blaster is 41 and is now awaiting this update to continue the journey. The changes to Touch of the Beyond actually make it playable to me, however, now that it works on phased enemies with a two minute duration, it could use a scaling pass.

Also, the only reason I am nice to you is because I am in love with the person in your avatar.  😄

[Maxzero]

57 minutes ago, Hew said:

The spammy potential of ToF I can totally see. But then, there are builds that run on ~3 power attack chains. That has to be equally boring. Are there other options you can mix in for more damage but maybe less aoe potential but more st? I use ToF as trash clearing, and bring in other attacks as a mix for other purposes.

 

Indeed my SR/DM Tanker is only using it as a AoE and honestly in AoE situations its only Maul+ToF with the occasional Soul Drain/PPP anyway. With only 2 main powers in the standard AoE rotation what else is there to do but spam ToF?

 

 

Edited October 25, 2020 by Maxzero

[Maxzero]

20 hours ago, Vanden said:

You can see them! About 25% of Scrappers, Brutes, and Tankers take it, while nearly 50% of Stalkers do.

 

Amazingly enough only 71% of Tanker DMs take Shadow Maul.

 

That means there are a significant number of DM Tanker's running about with no AoE at all.

[BrandX]

23 hours ago, Vanden said:

Touch of Fear in Dark Melee now takes Targeted AoE IOs. However, since this is a melee attack, it should take PBAoE IOs. 

 

Spinning Strike, in Street Justice, takes Targeted AOE IOs.  If you need a target to use, I believe is when you use Targeted AOE IOs.

Edited October 25, 2020 by BrandX

[ScarySai]

Here we go again.

 

For the record, I agree with you.

 

On topic: What do people think about making ToF have a bit of a longer cd, in exchange for a faster activation and maybe slightly more damage?

Edited October 25, 2020 by ScarySai

[Hew]

Hmmm, more cooldown, faster activation, more damage? Yeah, I can get down with that.

 

[ScarySai]

I just find it odd that we went out of our way to make shadow maul not feel awful to use, then introduce a new AoE that, while much more usable than vanilla shadow maul, still feels sluggish and generally inferior to patron AoEs.

 

The current state of it would be "acceptable" if maul didn't take a huge hit to make it happen. It definitely needs a buff of some sort.

Edited October 25, 2020 by ScarySai

[Hew]

Well, to be honest? I would like to be able to take a pool other than mu for zapp+ ball lightning and procing bl for crazy damage. Yeah, its a great pair and all. But, I Kan Has Plz not patron pool requirement to feel awesome?

[Riverdusk]

Nevermind, think I'm done arguing the targetted thing.

 

Spinning strike is 16 second recharge, I could see touch moving closer to that, maybe even 12 seconds so as to not get it too out of whack for those that want to still use it more as a debuff.

Edited October 25, 2020 by Riverdusk

[TC]

11 hours ago, UpandAtom said:

I think that adding some extra AoE into MA might've could've been been a change to, say, Crane Kick? Since it's so totally samey to Cobra Strike aside for one stuns and the other KBs. Adding it onto EC seems a weird choice. Keeping the aoe potential loaded in the back?

I was thinking about this last night. If they wanted to pump some AoE into Martial Arts, why not consider Crane Kick, or Storm Kick as a couple of others have said, for cones? Thematically and aesthetically this makes way more sense. What I think happened was they wanted to push some AoE power into Martial Arts (don't think a single target set needs to have this much AoE focus, but whatever) and the most lacking power in the set is Eagle's Claw (great damage, but iffy to use with the super long animation.) So they tried to give the set AoE while simultaneously buffing Eagle's Claw. But I said it before, it just flat-out doesn't make sense, and honestly is not the change that Eagle's Claw, or Martial Arts, needs from a gameplay stance. Also, it's just adding the effect from Golden Dragonfly... more homogenization.

 

Want to give Martials Arts some more AoE power? Okay, sure. I disagree that it should get AoE buffs, but I'm not going to care that much about this part, even if I strongly dislike powerset homogenization. It just makes no sense to me, from a thematic and aesthetic approach, that the AoE buffs would be on Eagle's Claw instead of Crane Kick or Storm Kick. It looks silly.

Edited October 25, 2020 by TC

[sveld]

23 hours ago, DarionLeonidas said:

I see a real problem with this as it further weakens Scrappers, especially as compared to Stalkers.

With this change, my main, a Level 50 Scrapper, loses his Alpha Strike Single Target to a Cone; even if it does the same amount of damage, re-classifying it as a PBAoE means that, while my main is able to slot Hecatomb here and Armageddon in Dragon's Tail, any other Scrapper I get to 50 will only have Armageddon in one or the other.

That's my practical objection to another loss of potential to Scrappers; Stalkers have been improved to the point where Scrappers are already taking a backseat, and MA Stalkers will still be able to slot Hecatomb and Armageddon, making Stalkers (once again) that much better and Scrappers that much weaker.

And promising that my character who already has it won't be changed isn't the point; I'm not one of those "I got mine, screw everybody else" people, and I have more Scrappers in the pipeline.

At this point, my only option is to spend everything on Buying Hecatombs and power-level my nascent Scrappers to 50.

In conclusion: Eagle's Claw is not broken, Please do not "fix" it.

Please don't do this.

I don't think stalkers outshine scrappers that much if at all depending on the power sets involved, but otherwise, I agree that this change to Eagle's Claw makes no sense. Eagle's Claw does need love because of its way-too-long animation time, but that can be done just by increasing its damage. Forcing a choice between it and Dragon's Tail to use Armageddon on makes the overall set weaker. And does my level 50 MA scrapper with Hecatomb now keep the power unchanged as ST or does the patch make the power PBAOE and the Hecatomb acts like an Armageddon? If the former, then this "buff" isn't actually a buff because it has no effect on pre-patch characters with the power. If the latter, then the game is misleading me every time I look at my character slotting as my Hecatomb is acting like an Armageddon, which is just confusing and needlessly so.

[ScarySai]

48 minutes ago, sveld said:

I don't think stalkers outshine scrappers that much if at all depending on the power sets involved, but otherwise, I agree that this change to Eagle's Claw makes no sense. Eagle's Claw does need love because of its way-too-long animation time, but that can be done just by increasing its damage. Forcing a choice between it and Dragon's Tail to use Armageddon on makes the overall set weaker. And does my level 50 MA scrapper with Hecatomb now keep the power unchanged as ST or does the patch make the power PBAOE and the Hecatomb acts like an Armageddon? If the former, then this "buff" isn't actually a buff because it has no effect on pre-patch characters with the power. If the latter, then the game is misleading me every time I look at my character slotting as my Hecatomb is acting like an Armageddon, which is just confusing and needlessly so.

Eagles claw gets very good cleave and can now slot armageddon + fury for even more damage, leaving tail open for a winter set or whatever else.

 

Ec>storm>axe>storm will easily overtake the current chain as the best with these changes in mind. Move hecatomb+Achilles into axe.

 

To say martial is somehow weaker as a result of these changes is just a blatant lie, it makes me cast doubt on if you have even tested it.

[Maxzero]

5 hours ago, ScarySai said:

Here we go again.

 

For the record, I agree with you.

 

On topic: What do people think about making ToF have a bit of a longer cd, in exchange for a faster activation and maybe slightly more damage?

 

I agree simply for internal balance. Seems strange to have the level 4 AoE on a longer CD then the level 20 AoE.

 

I could see the CD moved out to 12-14 seconds and either getting extra damage or the fear and -hit made AoE. Though I am not sure why the Fear and -hit being AoE would be problematic in the first place.

[Naraka]

On 10/24/2020 at 11:41 AM, RPW said:

Well, as far as Im concerned, I'm pretty happy with everything overall, but I do NOT like the change to Dark Melee's Shadow Maul. It is one of those powers we DM scarppers and Brutes must take, and its essential tbecause we have very little that's not a single target melee attack. There ar many of us who don't use Touch of Fear, and we shouldn't be encouraged to respec our builds to take an additional power to supplement Shadow Maul because its become weaker and less useful.

 

I have no problem seeing a modifaction to ToF, that sounds like a good idea. The SM change is a horrible idea. There was no problem with SM before. SM Is what allows us DM scrappers to perform our roles at all those low levels. If anything, you should increase the number of targets for scrappers and reduce the number for tanks. Scrappers are there to clear the mobs, but cant take the same dmg as a tank. Tankers are there to absorb damage, with the trade off as they do less dmg themselves. Tankers should never have better versions of offensive powers than scrappers using the same sets. 

 

Anyway, this is only one person's opinion. I've been playing CoH since it was originally in Beta and never missed a week to play until it shut down, and I'm just happy its here to play again. 

Oh please... If you were even playing DM before they changed shadow maul you were probably in the camp that skipped the cone all together. If anything, they over buffed some of the powers and now need to spread the effect since DM was pretty much matching the speed of moderate sets with only 1 cone power.

 

I'm in agreement with @TC that the trend seems to me aimed at making everything "well rounded". Homogenization is going to become a problem just like saturation of AoE will be a problem (or already is, depending on your opinion).

Edited October 26, 2020 by Naraka

[Draeth Darkstar]

On 10/24/2020 at 1:46 PM, ScarySai said:

Quote

 

•  Whirling Hands
  • No longer yields double damage with Energy Focus active
  • Instead it will instantly recharge the power

 

I really don't like this one, but overall the changes are nice.

 

One beefy power press is more valuable than an instantly recharging, middling power.

I agree with this.

 

Also, I would like it if Dominators could get the reduced animation time to Bone Smasher that Energy Melee is getting.

 

Edit: Actually... it'd be pretty rad if the various versions of Havoc Punch could, too, it looks SO MUCH smoother on Energy Melee now, wow.

Edited October 26, 2020 by Draeth Darkstar

[Captain Powerhouse]

On 10/24/2020 at 11:08 AM, TC said:

MA is not one of those melee sets that lacks good AoE, Dragon's Tail is a nice PBAoE power.

 

MA is indeed one of the sets. That stated, the set is one of the ones that got the least attention during closed testing, so it is in the most flexible position right now. As it stands right now, the cone change is a bit over-stated. Think more of it as a Thunder Strike Splash, that happens to be in a cone instead of the main target. Secondary targets don't take full damage. Keep your eyes on the patch notes and stay active in the discussions.

 

22 hours ago, TC said:

Sure, but my character isn't Bruce Lee. I have two Martial Arts characters and neither of them have the power to kick wind strong enough to break bones in their themes.

 

We all know you have kicked nazi robots so hard they exploded. 😉

 

On 10/24/2020 at 2:44 PM, ScarySai said:

Eagles claw is unlikely to be 'rebalanced' at this stage

 

Although some changes are a bit more unlikely to be changed than others, this one not really set in stone yet.

 

On 10/24/2020 at 11:41 AM, RPW said:

There ar many of us who don't use Touch of Fear, and we shouldn't be encouraged to respec our builds to take an additional power to supplement Shadow Maul because its become weaker and less useful.

Shadow Maul is still a superior AoE than it was before Page 5, the AoE changes for the set were not completed that issue. Last patch, damage, area and target cap were all increased. With this patch, only the target cap is being cut back to what it used to be before (and what every melee cone tends to be.)

 

On 10/24/2020 at 3:28 PM, Vanden said:

Range/melee has everything to do with it, the sets are designed around whether they'll be put in ranged or melee attacks.

 

This is a change that might not happen until a future update. It's still possible we might re-brand TAoE as "Ranged AoE" and PBAoE as "Melee AoE" but that likely wont be this update (not ruling it out but hands are full all around,) this might mean this power will go as is for now and be changed in the future, but until we are sure to go that way we will follow the same standard as Street Justice.

 

On 10/24/2020 at 4:01 PM, carroto said:

However ToF has half the recharge, half the damage, but a slightly longer animation, which means it's pretty bad from a DPSA perspective. 

 

This set has access to Soul Drain, a shadow that looms on all it's balance decisions. For the most part, it is expected that many will ignore the power on end-game optimal builds, the power is meant to help more casual builds achieve a minimum level of AoE self-suficiency, something this game basically mandates given the emphasis on defeating large number of enemies.

 

19 hours ago, summers said:

I do have a complaint about the power though - it is way, way, way too spammy.

 

This is overall intentional. See above quote. Overall, it is intentionally spammable but the DPA per target of this power is not the best a DM character will have access to.

 

 

20 hours ago, Solarverse said:

Does this mean the stacking hit effects are now back and working and can be manipulated as sound mods?

 

No, sorry.

 

 

[summers]

25 minutes ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

This is overall intentional. See above quote. Overall, it is intentionally spammable but the DPA per target of this power is not the best a DM character will have access to.

 

Thanks for considering my feedback, even if I may not like the outcome 😄

 

Is there any chance it could get a more 'melee' focussed animation as an alternative?

[ScarySai]

Hey, @Captain Powerhouse, Is the idea of Starless Step working while in either shapeshift form a non-starter, or could we expect to see that dream become reality soonish? 😛

[carroto]

5 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

This set has access to Soul Drain, a shadow that looms on all it's balance decisions.

Stalker Dark Melee doesn't get Soul Drain.  So does that mean that Stalkers can get an improved (read: decent) version of ToF?

[Mezmera]

On 10/24/2020 at 10:46 AM, ScarySai said:

I really don't like this one, but overall the changes are nice.

 

One beefy power press is more valuable than an instantly recharging, middling power.

I'm going to have to agree on this one.  Heard about this happening a few months ago and was utterly disappointed for my Energy dom.  They just made Energy Assault great for once and then they go and do something like this and totally don't redeem themselves.   

 

You guys made a good attack for a dom and now you want to undo that why, too much fun?  Glad they're working the bugs out for the mechanic but this one sucks.