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Focused Feedback: Other Powers Changes

Jimmy

By Jimmy
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Posted by Jimmy,

As the patch is nearing completion, we are no longer seeking feedback on this topic.   The latest patch notes can be found in the Beta Patch Notes forum.   If you encounter any bugs during this last phase of testing, please report them in the Beta Bug Reports forum.   Once the patch is live, feel free to post feedback in the Suggestions & Feedback forum. and bug reports in the Bug Reports forum.   Thank you!
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Rejolt

Rejolt

Posted
Posted (edited)

Blargh miss-click. Didn't mean to quote myself.

 

I want the movement to stay, too. I have two characters who skipped traditional travel while leveling and loved moving at capped speeds with just Ninja Run. One toon took the flight pool and afterburner to be capped in 3 travel types.

 

We'll see how beta plays out. 

Edited by Rejolt
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Thanks for D-Sync Enhancements! Just wish things like Resist/End, Heal/End and Damage/Mez had a third stat that made them more viable. Suggestions - add Recharge to Ribosomes, Range to Golgis, and Slows to Peroxisomes. These changes would allow for an endurance cost/range, recharge/endurance, and slow/mez or slow/damage enhancements.

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Take One

Take One

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

Quickness is a relatively weaker passive buff more similar to Swift. 

 

Run speed buff in gymnastic should also not be subject to the stacking restriction, since it's a copy or the small Quickness speed buff. 

 

Shinobi is a full copy of Ninja Run.

Can Shinobi have the Ninja Run animation then, if it's not allowed to stack with Ninja Run, so we can at least look cool while we use it? I can live with them not stacking, if I can slot up Shinobi with runspeed and jump enhancements, to achieve something close to what I used to have, if the run/jump animation was the same. I still don't understand the changes, because no explanation was given, so I don't like them... 

Edited by Fredpic
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csr

csr

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 10/24/2020 at 5:43 AM, Jimmy said:

Movement Buffs

  • The following travel powers will suppress Primary/Secondary equivalent power travel buffs:
    • Jump_CombatJump.png.a160a263e44d63bc2fcdbf62d38c81e2.png Pool > Leaping > Combat Jumping
    • Jump_LongJump.png.6b020dfc18386ba6566d3f0badbc8e89.png Pool > Leaping > Super Jump
    • ForceofWill_MightyLeap.png.87eed40e33b37938ffc5644069cfdb51.png Pool > Force of Will > Mighty Leap
    • SuperSpeed_SuperSpeed.png.4f9dcffbf97e96335f05897c8568815f.png Pool > Speed > Super Speed
    • Experimentation_SpeedofSound.png.3e140116f13135d86b2f1cfb5f117a29.png Pool > Experimentation > Speed of Sound
    • Inherent_NinjaRun.png.4397e15de17ae71110e6e5e12d87c4cf.png Prestige Travel > Ninja Run
    • Inherent_BeastRun.png.f3b1803fe72afc29398932c473ca2e02.png Prestige Travel > Beast Run
  • Primary/Secondary powers impacted by this:
    • Ninjitsu_Run.png.634f535aaa2d582038a0a89d5622952d.png Scrapper Defence > Ninjitsu > Shinobi-Iri
    • Ninjitsu_Run.png.634f535aaa2d582038a0a89d5622952d.png Sentinel Defence > Ninjitsu > Shinobi-Iri
    • NinjaTools_Assassin.png.50ddb59179d9fadb8264b97b10275495.png Blaster Support > Ninja Training > Shinobi-Iri
    • tacticalarrow_quickness.png.44daf1fa7ac354a4f37fe6e7a9adc6cd.png Blaster Support > Tactical Arrow > Gymnastics

 

After zoning activating Combat Jumping does not remove the Super Jump icon from your status bar.  The power effects turn off, including the END cost, but the buff icon remains until you cycle the power on-and-off.

 

[Edit:] The reverse is also true.  SJ does not cause the CJ buff icon to be removed from the status bar.

Edited by csr
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BrandX

BrandX

Posted
Posted (edited)

😕  No Ninja Running with Shinobi-Iri?  That's lame.  Why would you even get rid of this?  It was one perk of Ninjitsu and nothing game breaking.

 

Can Super Speed get the Ninja Run animation to even this out?

Edited by BrandX
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Rejolt

Rejolt

Posted
Posted

 

32 minutes ago, spectralent said:

You mean like how lightning reflexes has run speed?

I meant a change like would have Lightning Reflexes and something nuts like +20 speed run per target hit with Power Sink.

Thanks for D-Sync Enhancements! Just wish things like Resist/End, Heal/End and Damage/Mez had a third stat that made them more viable. Suggestions - add Recharge to Ribosomes, Range to Golgis, and Slows to Peroxisomes. These changes would allow for an endurance cost/range, recharge/endurance, and slow/mez or slow/damage enhancements.

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Vanden

Vanden

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, BrandX said:

No Ninja Running with Shinobi-Iri?  That's lame.  Why would you even get rid of this?  It was one perk of Ninjitsu and nothing game breaking.

Did you test this? It sounds like turning on Ninja Run should just replace the movement buffs in Shinobi-Iri without detoggling the power.

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Maxzero

Maxzero

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Lockpick said:

Okay, I went back and did some more testing on the movement speeds.  I was having a hard time with trying to capture as bullets, so put in a table format.  Looks like in my earlier test when I thought they were stacking it is because the power was showing up for a bit before disappearing.  I have to say I'm not a fan of this change.  I loved my Sentinel being able to stack NR and Shinobi-Iri as a travel power and when I created my DP/NT Blaster I was expecting to stack NR with Shinobi and was disappointed when I couldn't stack them.  I thought it was a bug.

 

I did see a post earlier about stacking of these travel powers, but I really didn't understand it and the need to limit the stacking.  I hope the table below makes sense.  I am trying to show what is active based on different power selections.

 

Movement Buffs

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Movement Buffs

  • The following travel powers will suppress Primary/Secondary equivalent power travel buffs:
    • Jump_CombatJump.png.a160a263e44d63bc2fcdbf62d38c81e2.png Pool > Leaping > Combat Jumping
    • Jump_LongJump.png.6b020dfc18386ba6566d3f0badbc8e89.png Pool > Leaping > Super Jump
    • ForceofWill_MightyLeap.png.87eed40e33b37938ffc5644069cfdb51.png Pool > Force of Will > Mighty Leap
    • SuperSpeed_SuperSpeed.png.4f9dcffbf97e96335f05897c8568815f.png Pool > Speed > Super Speed
    • Experimentation_SpeedofSound.png.3e140116f13135d86b2f1cfb5f117a29.png Pool > Experimentation > Speed of Sound
    • Inherent_NinjaRun.png.4397e15de17ae71110e6e5e12d87c4cf.png Prestige Travel > Ninja Run
    • Inherent_BeastRun.png.f3b1803fe72afc29398932c473ca2e02.png Prestige Travel > Beast Run
  • Primary/Secondary powers impacted by this:
    • Ninjitsu_Run.png.634f535aaa2d582038a0a89d5622952d.png Scrapper Defence > Ninjitsu > Shinobi-Iri
    • Ninjitsu_Run.png.634f535aaa2d582038a0a89d5622952d.png Sentinel Defence > Ninjitsu > Shinobi-Iri
    • NinjaTools_Assassin.png.50ddb59179d9fadb8264b97b10275495.png Blaster Support > Ninja Training > Shinobi-Iri
    • tacticalarrow_quickness.png.44daf1fa7ac354a4f37fe6e7a9adc6cd.png Blaster Support > Tactical Arrow > Gymnastics

 

AT Powersets Action Running Speed Flying Speed Jumping Speed Max Jump Height
Blaster A/NT Only SS Activated SS No No No
Only CJ Activated No No CJ CJ
Only NR Activated NR No NR NR
Only Shinobi Activated Yes No Yes Yes
Shinobi + SS SS Neither Shinobi Shinobi
Shinobi + SS + CJ SS None CJ CJ
Shinobi + CJ Shinobi None CJ CJ
Shinobi + NR NR None NR NR
             
Blaster A/TA Only SS Activated SS No No No
Only CJ Activated No No CJ CJ
Only NR Activated NR No NR NR
Only Gymnastics Activated Gym Gym Gym Gym
Gymnastics + SS Gym + SS Gym Gym Gym
Gymnastics + SS + CJ Gym + SS Gym CJ CJ
Gymnastics + CJ Gym Gym CJ CJ
Gymnastics + NR Gym + NR Gym NR NR
             
Sentinel DP/Ninjitsu Only NR Activated NR No NR NR
Only Shinobi-Iri Activated Shinobi-Iri No Shinobi-Iri Shinobi-Iri
Shinobi-Iri + NR NR No NR NR

 

 

 

This is an excellent example of why I don't like this change. You shouldn't have to look up a table to see whether a travel power works with another power.

 

The fact that some powers 'half work' when enabled with another power active (with the reduced effectiveness needing combat monitoring to be aware of) just seems to be a level of unneeded complexity.

 

I don't mind changes as long as the changes are clear cut, with an obvious net benefit or are consistant with game rules (such as with the TW changes which I think meets all 3 marks). I stuggle to match these changes with any of those 3 criteria.

Edited by Maxzero
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GruntledDave

GruntledDave

Posted
Posted

It replaces the buffs in Shinobi-Iri. But I have movement slotting in Shinobi-Iri, so the net effect is that if I want the cool flippy ninja/parkour look, I sacrifice some speed, jump height, etc. to get it. Because the game doesn't check to see if SI is a better buff than NR, it just replaces SI with NR.

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Archy

Archy

Posted
Posted

So, nobody’s talking about the whirling hands change in energy assault?

I personally hate the change. Know I can technically do the same damage now but it’ll be slooooow 😞

 

seems like a unnecessary nerf, no?

 

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BrandX

BrandX

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, Vanden said:

Did you test this? It sounds like turning on Ninja Run should just replace the movement buffs in Shinobi-Iri without detoggling the power.

Losing the movement buffs is terrible.  Sprint + Swift + Ninja Run + Shinobi-Iri was ❤️ 

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Rejolt

Rejolt

Posted
Posted
55 minutes ago, Vanden said:

Did you test this? It sounds like turning on Ninja Run should just replace the movement buffs in Shinobi-Iri without detoggling the power.

This is exactly what happens. But currently Ninja Run makes you run, jump slower and jump less high than what Shinobi already gives you. PH has said he doesn't like that it does that and is working for a way to have the Ninja run animation but not run slower.

Thanks for D-Sync Enhancements! Just wish things like Resist/End, Heal/End and Damage/Mez had a third stat that made them more viable. Suggestions - add Recharge to Ribosomes, Range to Golgis, and Slows to Peroxisomes. These changes would allow for an endurance cost/range, recharge/endurance, and slow/mez or slow/damage enhancements.

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Shadowflare

Shadowflare

Posted
Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

For a while now we been looking at means to give players a way to pick the movement animation via power customization, potentially on an inherent power.

Please! Especially before this change is implemented on shinobi/ninja run. These changes seem very arbitrary and anti-fun.

Edited by Shadowflare
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macskull

macskull

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Vanden said:

Did you test this? It sounds like turning on Ninja Run should just replace the movement buffs in Shinobi-Iri without detoggling the power.

I think what the poster was trying to say is that they used to use the two powers combined, because Shinobi-Iri wasn't flagged to be exclusive of other jump powers (which it should have been but is now a moot point).

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ABlueThingy

ABlueThingy

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

For a while now we been looking at means to give players a way to pick the movement animation via power customization, potentially on an inherent power.

So, like a power that costs no endurance to run and does nothing but sets your animation like the VIP slide and ninja/beast run?

 

I would love that

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Take One

Take One

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

For a while now we been looking at means to give players a way to pick the movement animation via power customization, potentially on an inherent power.

Awesome.

I still would have liked an explanation for why the change was suddenly necessary.

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Rejolt

Rejolt

Posted
Posted

So I guess I'd ask this:

 

If we get Ninja Run in on the inherent sprints can we have Beast Run put in one as well?

 

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Thanks for D-Sync Enhancements! Just wish things like Resist/End, Heal/End and Damage/Mez had a third stat that made them more viable. Suggestions - add Recharge to Ribosomes, Range to Golgis, and Slows to Peroxisomes. These changes would allow for an endurance cost/range, recharge/endurance, and slow/mez or slow/damage enhancements.

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General Idiot

General Idiot

Posted
Posted

I have to wonder at the logic behind making pool powers suppress primary/secondary powers, here. Especially the relatively small jump buff from Combat Jumping removing the much larger buff from Shinobi-Iri. Especially since so many people take combat jumping for the defense buff or to slot various IO procs in, that one in particular is going to annoy almost everyone wth Ninjitsu I'd bet. If nothing else, it should at least preserve whichever buff is larger.

 

Was stacking Ninja Run and Shinobi-Iri really that overpowered that it needed nerfing though? I can see maybe in PvP specifically (I know the movement control in Gymnastics not suppressing with travel powers was a distinct advantage for some there and nerfing that I fully understand), but seriously do the devs just have a grudge against people getting around quickly without travel powers now? Cause as much as I doubt it's that simple, between this and the teleport powers and the passcode stuff it's really starting to feel like it.

 

I too would really like an explanation of why this change was made.

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ScarySai

ScarySai

Posted
Posted

Just finished a round of dark melee testing, to break the monotony of the travel power discussion and maybe give the team something else to work out.

 

Keep in mind, these tests were done with a purpled out Dark/shield build, which is basically the best combination for dark melee. YMMV with other combinations IO levels.

 

1: The set performs fine on mission clears and such, if released as-is it'll still be stronger than it was originally, which was already pretty strong.

 

2: While touch of fear is -fine- for AoE, I really, really think the activation time could use a cut. Like, a little less than half a second. Adjust recharge or whatever you may to make it work, but the main problem with ToF is just how awful it flows. I understand that if can very easily get out of hand due to soul drain, but I can't just ignore the fact that ball lightning or fireball exist.

 

3: Where the heck is the sound file for Shadow Maul, and how do I change it?

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Moonlighter

Moonlighter

Posted
Posted

Not sure where to put this bug, so since this is other powers:

 

It looks like messing with the /Ninj toggles on blasters somehow messed up /Ninj scrappers.

 

On my 50 /Ninj scrapper:

 

Jumping on  LIVE
 
Shinobi Only
Speed: 55.76
Height: 31.38
 
Shinobi + CJ
Speed: 55.91
Height: 39.38
 
Shinobi + Ninja Run
Speed: 75.37
Height: 59.18
 
Jumping on TEST
 
Shinobi
Speed: 54.68
Height: 31.08
 
Shinobi + CJ
Speed: 43.07
Height: 22.40
 
Shinobi + Ninja Run
Speed: 62.53
Height: 42.20
 
Shinobi no longer stacks with Ninja Run, and Combat Jumping actually suppresses it.
 
Hopefully this will be fixed ASAP, as now moving around testing on my main is much slower.
 
 
 
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Lockpick

Lockpick

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Moonlighter said:

Not sure where to put this bug, so since this is other powers:

 

It looks like messing with the /Ninj toggles on blasters somehow messed up /Ninj scrappers.

 

On my 50 /Ninj scrapper:

 

Jumping on  LIVE
 
Shinobi Only
Speed: 55.76
Height: 31.38
 
Shinobi + CJ
Speed: 55.91
Height: 39.38
 
Shinobi + Ninja Run
Speed: 75.37
Height: 59.18
 
Jumping on TEST
 
Shinobi
Speed: 54.68
Height: 31.08
 
Shinobi + CJ
Speed: 43.07
Height: 22.40
 
Shinobi + Ninja Run
Speed: 62.53
Height: 42.20
 
Shinobi no longer stacks with Ninja Run, and Combat Jumping actually suppresses it.
 
Hopefully this will be fixed ASAP, as now moving around testing on my main is much slower.
 
 
 

 

This is intended.  They nerfed being able to stack movement powers in the latest patch.  I'm not clear why and think they should actually allow all of them to stack, but this was an intended change.

 

Movement Buffs

  • The following travel powers will suppress Primary/Secondary equivalent power travel buffs:
    • Jump_CombatJump.png.a160a263e44d63bc2fcdbf62d38c81e2.png Pool > Leaping > Combat Jumping
    • Jump_LongJump.png.6b020dfc18386ba6566d3f0badbc8e89.png Pool > Leaping > Super Jump
    • ForceofWill_MightyLeap.png.87eed40e33b37938ffc5644069cfdb51.png Pool > Force of Will > Mighty Leap
    • SuperSpeed_SuperSpeed.png.4f9dcffbf97e96335f05897c8568815f.png Pool > Speed > Super Speed
    • Experimentation_SpeedofSound.png.3e140116f13135d86b2f1cfb5f117a29.png Pool > Experimentation > Speed of Sound
    • Inherent_NinjaRun.png.4397e15de17ae71110e6e5e12d87c4cf.png Prestige Travel > Ninja Run
    • Inherent_BeastRun.png.f3b1803fe72afc29398932c473ca2e02.png Prestige Travel > Beast Run
  • Primary/Secondary powers impacted by this:
    • Ninjitsu_Run.png.634f535aaa2d582038a0a89d5622952d.png Scrapper Defence > Ninjitsu > Shinobi-Iri
    • Ninjitsu_Run.png.634f535aaa2d582038a0a89d5622952d.png Sentinel Defence > Ninjitsu > Shinobi-Iri
    • NinjaTools_Assassin.png.50ddb59179d9fadb8264b97b10275495.png Blaster Support > Ninja Training > Shinobi-Iri
    • tacticalarrow_quickness.png.44daf1fa7ac354a4f37fe6e7a9adc6cd.png Blaster Support > Tactical Arrow > Gymnastics

 

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GruntledDave

GruntledDave

Posted
Posted

I suppose if we are going to lose stacking, then I'd ask for two things:

  1. Don't suppress higher-value buffs for lower value ones (e.g., don't let CJ's jump buff suppress Shinobi-Iri's)
  2. Give us those sweet, sweet Ninja Run and Beast Run options as cosmetic options somehow.
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