Focused Feedback: Other Powers Changes

[spectralent]

5 minutes ago, Rejolt said:

I don't think it was hurting anything besides being an unfair advantage. It would be like giving Power sink for elec armor +run speed per target hit.

You mean like how lightning reflexes has run speed?

[Rejolt]

Blargh miss-click. Didn't mean to quote myself.

 

I want the movement to stay, too. I have two characters who skipped traditional travel while leveling and loved moving at capped speeds with just Ninja Run. One toon took the flight pool and afterburner to be capped in 3 travel types.

 

We'll see how beta plays out. 

Edited October 31, 2020 by Rejolt

[Take One]

1 hour ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

Quickness is a relatively weaker passive buff more similar to Swift. 

 

Run speed buff in gymnastic should also not be subject to the stacking restriction, since it's a copy or the small Quickness speed buff. 

 

Shinobi is a full copy of Ninja Run.

Can Shinobi have the Ninja Run animation then, if it's not allowed to stack with Ninja Run, so we can at least look cool while we use it? I can live with them not stacking, if I can slot up Shinobi with runspeed and jump enhancements, to achieve something close to what I used to have, if the run/jump animation was the same. I still don't understand the changes, because no explanation was given, so I don't like them... 

Edited October 31, 2020 by Fredpic

[csr]

On 10/24/2020 at 5:43 AM, Jimmy said:

Movement Buffs

• The following travel powers will suppress Primary/Secondary equivalent power travel buffs:
  •  Pool > Leaping > Combat Jumping
  •  Pool > Leaping > Super Jump
  •  Pool > Force of Will > Mighty Leap
  •  Pool > Speed > Super Speed
  •  Pool > Experimentation > Speed of Sound
  •  Prestige Travel > Ninja Run
  •  Prestige Travel > Beast Run
• Primary/Secondary powers impacted by this:
  •  Scrapper Defence > Ninjitsu > Shinobi-Iri
  •  Sentinel Defence > Ninjitsu > Shinobi-Iri
  •  Blaster Support > Ninja Training > Shinobi-Iri
  •  Blaster Support > Tactical Arrow > Gymnastics

 

After zoning activating Combat Jumping does not remove the Super Jump icon from your status bar.  The power effects turn off, including the END cost, but the buff icon remains until you cycle the power on-and-off.

 

[Edit:] The reverse is also true.  SJ does not cause the CJ buff icon to be removed from the status bar.

Edited October 31, 2020 by csr
Formatting

[BrandX]

😕  No Ninja Running with Shinobi-Iri?  That's lame.  Why would you even get rid of this?  It was one perk of Ninjitsu and nothing game breaking.

 

Can Super Speed get the Ninja Run animation to even this out?

Edited October 31, 2020 by BrandX

[Rejolt]

 

32 minutes ago, spectralent said:

You mean like how lightning reflexes has run speed?

I meant a change like would have Lightning Reflexes and something nuts like +20 speed run per target hit with Power Sink.

[Vanden]

11 minutes ago, BrandX said:

No Ninja Running with Shinobi-Iri?  That's lame.  Why would you even get rid of this?  It was one perk of Ninjitsu and nothing game breaking.

Did you test this? It sounds like turning on Ninja Run should just replace the movement buffs in Shinobi-Iri without detoggling the power.

[Maxzero]

3 hours ago, Lockpick said:

Okay, I went back and did some more testing on the movement speeds.  I was having a hard time with trying to capture as bullets, so put in a table format.  Looks like in my earlier test when I thought they were stacking it is because the power was showing up for a bit before disappearing.  I have to say I'm not a fan of this change.  I loved my Sentinel being able to stack NR and Shinobi-Iri as a travel power and when I created my DP/NT Blaster I was expecting to stack NR with Shinobi and was disappointed when I couldn't stack them.  I thought it was a bug.

 

I did see a post earlier about stacking of these travel powers, but I really didn't understand it and the need to limit the stacking.  I hope the table below makes sense.  I am trying to show what is active based on different power selections.

 

Movement Buffs

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Movement Buffs

• The following travel powers will suppress Primary/Secondary equivalent power travel buffs:
  •  Pool > Leaping > Combat Jumping
  •  Pool > Leaping > Super Jump
  •  Pool > Force of Will > Mighty Leap
  •  Pool > Speed > Super Speed
  •  Pool > Experimentation > Speed of Sound
  •  Prestige Travel > Ninja Run
  •  Prestige Travel > Beast Run
• Primary/Secondary powers impacted by this:
  •  Scrapper Defence > Ninjitsu > Shinobi-Iri
  •  Sentinel Defence > Ninjitsu > Shinobi-Iri
  •  Blaster Support > Ninja Training > Shinobi-Iri
  •  Blaster Support > Tactical Arrow > Gymnastics

 

AT	Powersets	Action	Running Speed	Flying Speed	Jumping Speed	Max Jump Height
Blaster	A/NT	Only SS Activated	SS	No	No	No
		Only CJ Activated	No	No	CJ	CJ
		Only NR Activated	NR	No	NR	NR
		Only Shinobi Activated	Yes	No	Yes	Yes
		Shinobi + SS	SS	Neither	Shinobi	Shinobi
		Shinobi + SS + CJ	SS	None	CJ	CJ
		Shinobi + CJ	Shinobi	None	CJ	CJ
		Shinobi + NR	NR	None	NR	NR
Blaster	A/TA	Only SS Activated	SS	No	No	No
		Only CJ Activated	No	No	CJ	CJ
		Only NR Activated	NR	No	NR	NR
		Only Gymnastics Activated	Gym	Gym	Gym	Gym
		Gymnastics + SS	Gym + SS	Gym	Gym	Gym
		Gymnastics + SS + CJ	Gym + SS	Gym	CJ	CJ
		Gymnastics + CJ	Gym	Gym	CJ	CJ
		Gymnastics + NR	Gym + NR	Gym	NR	NR
Sentinel	DP/Ninjitsu	Only NR Activated	NR	No	NR	NR
		Only Shinobi-Iri Activated	Shinobi-Iri	No	Shinobi-Iri	Shinobi-Iri
		Shinobi-Iri + NR	NR	No	NR	NR

 

 

 

This is an excellent example of why I don't like this change. You shouldn't have to look up a table to see whether a travel power works with another power.

 

The fact that some powers 'half work' when enabled with another power active (with the reduced effectiveness needing combat monitoring to be aware of) just seems to be a level of unneeded complexity.

 

I don't mind changes as long as the changes are clear cut, with an obvious net benefit or are consistant with game rules (such as with the TW changes which I think meets all 3 marks). I stuggle to match these changes with any of those 3 criteria.

Edited October 31, 2020 by Maxzero

[GruntledDave]

It replaces the buffs in Shinobi-Iri. But I have movement slotting in Shinobi-Iri, so the net effect is that if I want the cool flippy ninja/parkour look, I sacrifice some speed, jump height, etc. to get it. Because the game doesn't check to see if SI is a better buff than NR, it just replaces SI with NR.

[Archy]

So, nobody’s talking about the whirling hands change in energy assault?

I personally hate the change. Know I can technically do the same damage now but it’ll be slooooow 😞

 

seems like a unnecessary nerf, no?

 

[BrandX]

35 minutes ago, Vanden said:

Did you test this? It sounds like turning on Ninja Run should just replace the movement buffs in Shinobi-Iri without detoggling the power.

Losing the movement buffs is terrible.  Sprint + Swift + Ninja Run + Shinobi-Iri was ❤️ 

[Rejolt]

55 minutes ago, Vanden said:

Did you test this? It sounds like turning on Ninja Run should just replace the movement buffs in Shinobi-Iri without detoggling the power.

This is exactly what happens. But currently Ninja Run makes you run, jump slower and jump less high than what Shinobi already gives you. PH has said he doesn't like that it does that and is working for a way to have the Ninja run animation but not run slower.

[Captain Powerhouse]

2 hours ago, Fredpic said:

Can Shinobi have the Ninja Run animation then,

 

For a while now we been looking at means to give players a way to pick the movement animation via power customization, potentially on an inherent power.

[GruntledDave]

Can you explain the reasoning behind the change, Captain? Why some movement buffs and not others, why do it at all, etc.

[Shadowflare]

19 minutes ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

For a while now we been looking at means to give players a way to pick the movement animation via power customization, potentially on an inherent power.

Please! Especially before this change is implemented on shinobi/ninja run. These changes seem very arbitrary and anti-fun.

Edited October 31, 2020 by Shadowflare

[macskull]

1 hour ago, Vanden said:

Did you test this? It sounds like turning on Ninja Run should just replace the movement buffs in Shinobi-Iri without detoggling the power.

I think what the poster was trying to say is that they used to use the two powers combined, because Shinobi-Iri wasn't flagged to be exclusive of other jump powers (which it should have been but is now a moot point).

[ABlueThingy]

1 hour ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

For a while now we been looking at means to give players a way to pick the movement animation via power customization, potentially on an inherent power.

So, like a power that costs no endurance to run and does nothing but sets your animation like the VIP slide and ninja/beast run?

 

I would love that

[Take One]

2 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

For a while now we been looking at means to give players a way to pick the movement animation via power customization, potentially on an inherent power.

Awesome.

I still would have liked an explanation for why the change was suddenly necessary.

[Rejolt]

So I guess I'd ask this:

 

If we get Ninja Run in on the inherent sprints can we have Beast Run put in one as well?

 

[General Idiot]

I have to wonder at the logic behind making pool powers suppress primary/secondary powers, here. Especially the relatively small jump buff from Combat Jumping removing the much larger buff from Shinobi-Iri. Especially since so many people take combat jumping for the defense buff or to slot various IO procs in, that one in particular is going to annoy almost everyone wth Ninjitsu I'd bet. If nothing else, it should at least preserve whichever buff is larger.

 

Was stacking Ninja Run and Shinobi-Iri really that overpowered that it needed nerfing though? I can see maybe in PvP specifically (I know the movement control in Gymnastics not suppressing with travel powers was a distinct advantage for some there and nerfing that I fully understand), but seriously do the devs just have a grudge against people getting around quickly without travel powers now? Cause as much as I doubt it's that simple, between this and the teleport powers and the passcode stuff it's really starting to feel like it.

 

I too would really like an explanation of why this change was made.

[ScarySai]

Just finished a round of dark melee testing, to break the monotony of the travel power discussion and maybe give the team something else to work out.

 

Keep in mind, these tests were done with a purpled out Dark/shield build, which is basically the best combination for dark melee. YMMV with other combinations IO levels.

 

1: The set performs fine on mission clears and such, if released as-is it'll still be stronger than it was originally, which was already pretty strong.

 

2: While touch of fear is -fine- for AoE, I really, really think the activation time could use a cut. Like, a little less than half a second. Adjust recharge or whatever you may to make it work, but the main problem with ToF is just how awful it flows. I understand that if can very easily get out of hand due to soul drain, but I can't just ignore the fact that ball lightning or fireball exist.

 

3: Where the heck is the sound file for Shadow Maul, and how do I change it?

[Crasical]

Can the Blaster version of Shinobi-Iri get the same icon as the other two now that it also gives you the zoomies?

[Moonlighter]

Not sure where to put this bug, so since this is other powers:

 

It looks like messing with the /Ninj toggles on blasters somehow messed up /Ninj scrappers.

 

On my 50 /Ninj scrapper:

 

Jumping on  LIVE

 

Shinobi Only

Speed: 55.76

Height: 31.38

 

Shinobi + CJ

Speed: 55.91

Height: 39.38

 

Shinobi + Ninja Run

Speed: 75.37

Height: 59.18

 

Jumping on TEST

 

Shinobi

Speed: 54.68

Height: 31.08

 

Shinobi + CJ

Speed: 43.07

Height: 22.40

 

Shinobi + Ninja Run

Speed: 62.53

Height: 42.20

 

Shinobi no longer stacks with Ninja Run, and Combat Jumping actually suppresses it.

 

Hopefully this will be fixed ASAP, as now moving around testing on my main is much slower.

 

 

 

[Lockpick]

7 hours ago, Moonlighter said:

Not sure where to put this bug, so since this is other powers:

 

It looks like messing with the /Ninj toggles on blasters somehow messed up /Ninj scrappers.

 

On my 50 /Ninj scrapper:

 

Jumping on  LIVE

 

Shinobi Only

Speed: 55.76

Height: 31.38

 

Shinobi + CJ

Speed: 55.91

Height: 39.38

 

Shinobi + Ninja Run

Speed: 75.37

Height: 59.18

 

Jumping on TEST

 

Shinobi

Speed: 54.68

Height: 31.08

 

Shinobi + CJ

Speed: 43.07

Height: 22.40

 

Shinobi + Ninja Run

Speed: 62.53

Height: 42.20

 

Shinobi no longer stacks with Ninja Run, and Combat Jumping actually suppresses it.

 

Hopefully this will be fixed ASAP, as now moving around testing on my main is much slower.

 

 

 

 

This is intended.  They nerfed being able to stack movement powers in the latest patch.  I'm not clear why and think they should actually allow all of them to stack, but this was an intended change.

 

Movement Buffs

• The following travel powers will suppress Primary/Secondary equivalent power travel buffs:
  •  Pool > Leaping > Combat Jumping
  •  Pool > Leaping > Super Jump
  •  Pool > Force of Will > Mighty Leap
  •  Pool > Speed > Super Speed
  •  Pool > Experimentation > Speed of Sound
  •  Prestige Travel > Ninja Run
  •  Prestige Travel > Beast Run
• Primary/Secondary powers impacted by this:
  •  Scrapper Defence > Ninjitsu > Shinobi-Iri
  •  Sentinel Defence > Ninjitsu > Shinobi-Iri
  •  Blaster Support > Ninja Training > Shinobi-Iri
  •  Blaster Support > Tactical Arrow > Gymnastics

 

[GruntledDave]

I suppose if we are going to lose stacking, then I'd ask for two things:

1. Don't suppress higher-value buffs for lower value ones (e.g., don't let CJ's jump buff suppress Shinobi-Iri's)
2. Give us those sweet, sweet Ninja Run and Beast Run options as cosmetic options somehow.