Focused Feedback: Travel Updates: Base Teleportation, Long Range Teleporter Accolade, Special TP Powers

[skoryy]

4 minutes ago, Replacement said:

This betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of the passcode changes.

 

Another thing that's missed, is that Indomitable has a sizeable population and that PvPers do exist even if they're not here on the forums or other servers.

 

EDIT: And if you do want to make PvP more viable down the road, steps like these were necessary.

Edited October 25, 2020 by skoryy

[Blackbird71]

12 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

The goal isn't to give everyone access to Ouro at level 1, but the level restriction was meaningless, so we removed it.

 

You're meant to gain access to Ouro by being naturally exposed to time travel or by being initiated by another member (via a dropped portal).

 

However, if you really want to gain access to Ouro at level 1 without another player or another character, this is still possible through Cimerora.

 

 

This is sending some mixed messages.  You're effectively saying, "You're not supposed to have it at level 1, but we're going to make it possible for you to have it at level 1, but we're going to add some minimal speed bumps that will add minor complications to getting it at level 1, but aren't going to actually deter anyone from getting it at level 1."

Please, either keep it locked at level and/or to content, or just open it up.  As Mr. Miyagi said, walk on the left or right side of the road and you're OK.  Walk down the middle of the road, "squash, like grape."

[Replacement]

1 hour ago, unblocked said:

Inventing a giant mess of fiddly crap to replace one simple macro was really the best use of your time and effort, nonprofiting volunteer dev team? Y'all must be engineers.

 

Just disable it in combat/inside missions/whatever. Don't remove one of the best feature of the game just because you wasted too much of your time and effort on an unwanted and unneeded replacement. Don't fall prey to sunk cost fallacy. More importantly, do NOT feed us to your sunk cost fallacy.

Sorry, I heard "Unneeded Replacement" and I felt... summoned.

 

a) Best use of the volunteer dev team's time is doing whatever they damn well please.

b) I'll prefer customizable deployable SG portals, that fit in better with the lore and world instead of team members up and disappearing without even the decency to leave a cloud of brimstone dust.

[Blackbird71]

1 minute ago, Replacement said:

b) I'll prefer customizable deployable SG portals, that fit in better with the lore and world instead of team members up and disappearing without even the decency to leave a cloud of brimstone dust.

And that's a viable position, but do there need to be so many powers that do this?  Certainly some of this mess could be consolidated and simplified.

[Replacement]

7 minutes ago, Blackbird71 said:

This is sending some mixed messages.  You're effectively saying, "You're not supposed to have it at level 1, but we're going to make it possible for you to have it at level 1, but we're going to add some minimal speed bumps that will add minor complications to getting it at level 1, but aren't going to actually deter anyone from getting it at level 1."

Please, either keep it locked at level and/or to content, or just open it up.  As Mr. Miyagi said, walk on the left or right side of the road and you're OK.  Walk down the middle of the road, "squash, like grape."

You could already use the Echoes from your base -> Ouroboros at level 1.  I actually used this for a character that leveled exclusively in Echo zones.  

 

With us losing the Echo base beacons, the level 1 Ouro portal allows us to keep that functionality (and be less work-around-y while we're at it).  I really do not understand why this would be a sticking point with anyone.  

This feels very much like they have given you an inch and you're trying to take a mile.

[macskull]

30 minutes ago, skoryy said:

Another thing that's missed, is that Indomitable has a sizeable population and that PvPers do exist even if they're not here on the forums or other servers.

 

EDIT: And if you do want to make PvP more viable down the road, steps like these were necessary.

While the backup is appreciated, I need to be clear that the command isn't getting altered solely because of PvP concerns. The command is getting altered because:

• It is supposed to be a GM-level command that players were never supposed to have access to
• It can also be used to escape death in "Master of" badge runs
• There are other, more egregious issues with the command that aren't in these patch notes

This game's community already loves hopping on the "PvPers ruin everything!" bandwagon, I'd rather not give them any more ammunition for their delusions.

[skoryy]

1 minute ago, macskull said:

While the backup is appreciated, I need to be clear that the command isn't getting altered solely because of PvP concerns. The command is getting altered because:

• It is supposed to be a GM-level command that players were never supposed to have access to
• It can also be used to escape death in "Master of" badge runs
• There are other, more egregious issues with the command that aren't in these patch notes

This game's community already loves hopping on the "PvPers ruin everything!" bandwagon, I'd rather not give them any more ammunition for their delusions.

Okay, but I still feel that "We're doing this so as to be courteous to other players" should be the primary argument here.

[skoryy]

Five minutes to pick up the Atlas Park exploration medallion.  LRT takes me to the transit station, which is just a short jump from the base portal.  Okay, this is reasonable.  LRT, however, has a ten minute cooldown. 😐

 

I think @Xanatos got it right with the recharge adjustments on the first page.  Not sure why any of these should go beyond 30/90 seconds.

[Lockpick]

I will echo (see what I did there) what some of the others have said.

 

• I get why this was done.  The base TP macro was really a GM thing never intended to be used by players and has been on the radar for a fix for a long time.  I understand that portion and don't have a problem with it.
• I like the LRT accolade and am even okay with having to earn the available zones through exploration
• The challenges I see are really around all the various TP powers and their various recharges and activation times.  I would suggest they should all operate the same and my suggestion would be that they all drop a portal like Oro does that you can enter and the recharge and activation should be similar to the oro portal.  Not a fan of the length of time it takes to activate the SG TP accolade power as is.

 

I copied a character over to Beta that had AP already explored.  On Beta he didn't automatically get the accolade.  I went to SC and did the exploration and got the LRT power.  When I tried to use it it only showed SC and no other zones.  Seems like a bug because I cannot re-explore AP to get the badges because I already have them.

Edited October 25, 2020 by Lockpick
Added in game experience with LRT

[Grouchybeast]

Four different base access powers taking up a slot in a power tray.  Two of them are pure teleports, two summon portals.  Two have charges, two don't.  All of them have different length cooldowns.

 

This just seems like a lot.  Personally, I would rather have one base portal-summoning power that has a five-minute cooldown like an Ouro portal, and call it a day.

Edited October 25, 2020 by Grouchybeast

[dtj714]

Been more focused on the Teleportation Pool thread, so sorry if these suggestions have already been made, but there is cross-over:

 

LRTP and the Accolade Power - Change the accolade power to a P2W power (same as Base Transport, Mission Transport, and Team Transport) called Zone Transport.  Give it all the destinations of the current accolade power without requiring any unlocks, and a long recharge (same as Mission Transport).  For the pool power, give it the new destinations of the current accolade power to start, plus make it usable for ANY zone (not otherwise restricted) by visiting the zone once or getting a (single) unlock badge in that zone.  Voila, 'porters can keep their (now useful) LRTP, while others can get a slimmed-down, less frequently useable version without having to do a crap-ton of unlocks on every toon.  Everybody wins.

 

Alternatively, why not get rid of all the current teleport and transport powers and just let everybody teleport anywhere anytime?  I mean, its headed in that direction...

Edited October 25, 2020 by dtj714

[Mikewho]

27 minutes ago, Grouchybeast said:

Four different base access powers taking up a slot in a power tray.  Two of them are pure teleports, two summon portals.  Two have charges, two don't.  All of them have different length cooldowns.

 

This just seems like a lot.  Personally, I would rather have one base portal-summoning power that has a five-minute cooldown like an Ouro portal, and call it a day.

Definitely agree with this, there are just too many overlapping things currently 

[DoctorDitko]

A Teleport popmenu helps a lot with the tray crowding, while still allowing variety.

Edited October 25, 2020 by DoctorDitko

[Blackbird71]

2 hours ago, Replacement said:

You could already use the Echoes from your base -> Ouroboros at level 1.  I actually used this for a character that leveled exclusively in Echo zones.  

 

With us losing the Echo base beacons, the level 1 Ouro portal allows us to keep that functionality (and be less work-around-y while we're at it).  I really do not understand why this would be a sticking point with anyone.  

This feels very much like they have given you an inch and you're trying to take a mile.

Not at all; I'd personally prefer it if they moved more in the direction of keeping Ouro as it was intended; something unlocked through play of the content instead of just passed on to others through gimmicks.

But I also don't like half-measures, or the sense that the devs aren't sure what they're doing or why they're doing it.  They need to make up their minds and pick a direction, not try to straddle the middle; it just results in pointless restrictions that are effectively worse than no restrictions at all.

[Replacement]

1 minute ago, Blackbird71 said:

Not at all; I'd personally prefer it if they moved more in the direction of keeping Ouro as it was intended; something unlocked through play of the content instead of just passed on to others through gimmicks.

But I also don't like half-measures, or the sense that the devs aren't sure what they're doing or why they're doing it.  They need to make up their minds and pick a direction, not try to straddle the middle; it just results in pointless restrictions that are effectively worse than no restrictions at all.

Ok, it just seems like an odd detail to get hung up on.  As I illustrated, what they're actually doing is retaining functionality that has been in the game since the Echo beacons were added.

 

I should note I have skin in the game: I have a character that simply would not exist without level 1 access to Ouro/Echoes.

[Grouchybeast]

6 minutes ago, DoctorDitko said:

A Teleport popmenu helps a lot with the tray crowding, while still allowing variety.

I'd prefer to have a clean initial design than expect players to use moderately obscure features to work around UI issues.

[DoctorDitko]

Fair enough; refactoring is hard work, though, and developer resources are limited. A free fix in exchange for a little player effort isn't unreasonable. No one says you have to take all these powers, after all.

 

We've been hoping for trays A-F to accompany trays 0-9 for some time, maybe now is the time?

[@Ghost]

13 minutes ago, DoctorDitko said:

Fair enough; refactoring is hard work, though, and developer resources are limited. A free fix in exchange for a little player effort isn't unreasonable. No one says you have to take all these powers, after all.

 

We've been hoping for trays A-F to accompany trays 0-9 for some time, maybe now is the time?

Not to get too snarky, but I think making 3 new powers and adjusting the surplus of teleport powers took more effort than it would have to just make one fast recharging supergroup portal.

 

Extra trays aren't the solution to "we have too many teleport powers." Tackling the issue of why you need that tray space is, and consolidating teleport powers would go a long way in that direction.

[Very Difficult]

I understand the idea on not having players just spam click the teleport button whenever they please and replacing it with an actual summoning portal, but I don't think the cooldown on the thing should be 30 minutes long. People are way too used to being able to just teleport whenever they please, myself included. It could've been done that you can't use it in combat, or have a shorter cooldown instead of being able to click it whenever.

[QuiJon]

I have to say i am a bit disappointed in the changes here. Specifically to the "enterbasefrompasscode" which i think we all knew was gonna be the big gripe when it was finally addressed. 

 

Look i get that the slash command allowed it to be exploited in pvp and on master of TF runs and i get wanting to eliminate that. But frankly i think maybe you all should have just added a p2w power that functioned much the same as the slash command and was not available in pvp or on those task forces rather then doing this big tadoo with all this other stuff. 

 

Could have just altered the current base teleport at p2w to maybe have a 5 second activation time and maybe a 5 minute cool down. So really like no different then using a orro portal. But it would only take you to your own SG base. Then if you wanted to go into other peoples bases you could then use the standard base portals on the map. It is not like it is that difficult to make a base with teleporters on it for personal use if you dont belong to a SG that has one already. 

 

Kind of one of my problems is that part of this new revamp requires the time sink of badging again. I only actively badge 1 of my characters. But on this new system characters will have less options open to them if i dont take a whole day and badge hunt all the explorer badges for every zone. 

 

It just seems like you all put way to much thought into this fix. I mean you had little trouble leaving the command available to us for a year or more now, so obviously there is not a concern with it breaking the game balance other then the pvp and master tf runs. So fix that, and let us keep a useful option for travel. 

[ShardWarrior]

3 hours ago, Replacement said:

b) I'll prefer customizable deployable SG portals, that fit in better with the lore and world instead of team members up and disappearing without even the decency to leave a cloud of brimstone dust.

People are still going to be up and disappearing into base portals. 

[Luminara]

4 minutes ago, QuiJon said:

I mean you had little trouble leaving the command available to us for a year or more now, so obviously there is not a concern with it breaking the game balance other then the pvp and master tf runs.

 

It's already been stated at least twice, but it bears repeating - there's another problem with the slash command, it's exploitable and it has to be removed.  Not limited to only out of combat, or only out of PvP zones, but removed.  It's not a fixable problem.  It has to go.  Everyone will understand when the beta ends, until then, please, honestly, please, realize that it's necessary and for everyone's benefit to remove it.  It's that serious.

[srmalloy]

2 hours ago, Replacement said:

You could already use the Echoes from your base -> Ouroboros at level 1.  I actually used this for a character that leveled exclusively in Echo zones.  

 

With us losing the Echo base beacons, the level 1 Ouro portal allows us to keep that functionality (and be less work-around-y while we're at it).  I really do not understand why this would be a sticking point with anyone.  

This feels very much like they have given you an inch and you're trying to take a mile.

Giving us an inch and our wanting a mile?

 

Now: Level 1, go to base, go to Echo: Galaxy City, then to Ouroboros. Bang, Ouro portal.

 

Beta: All the Echo zone beacons are gone. But if you still want an Ouro portal at level 1, you can:

• Take your level 1 to an area with a zero-time logout, switch to an alt with the Ouro portal, go to where you parked your level 1, drop an Ouro portal, log out, switch back to your level 1, click on the Ouro portal you left behind, then to Ouroboros and up the gnomon to get the exploration badge. Bang, Ouro portal. Or,
• Take your level 1 to the Atlas tram, enter the TUNNEL portal to Night Ward, go up the path to the Midnighter mansion, enter the door to get the badge, exit the building, run back down to the TUNNEL portal, return to Atlas Park, take the tram to Steel Canyon (south), run the width of the zone with its +9 mobs to get to the Midnighter Club, enter the club, go back to the back to the Pillar of Ice and Fire, use it to enter Cimerora, go to the exploration badge in front of Marcus Valerius, you're exposed to time travel. Bang, Ouro portal. Or,
• Stand around in some well-populated zone spamming local/broadcast with requests for someone to drop an Ouro portal so you can use it to travel to Ouroboros and up the gnomon to get the exploration badge. Bang, Ouro portal. But since the portals only last 90 seconds now, you're less likely to find one already up to relieve you of having to ask for it.

What it feels like is, if that's giving us an inch, they've grabbed back the mile we had before to do it. "You can still do it if you really want to, but you'll have to jump through a bunch of pointless hoops to do it." Ouroboros' primary function as a tool to go back and do content you missed has, over time, taken a secondary position to its use as a travel hub. As a boost to travel, players are going to want to get it as quickly as possible, regardless of what the original intent of the zone was. Since the easiest way of the three is to beg in AP (Mercy, etc.) for someone to drop a portal, then I suspect that portal request spam is likely to drown out DFB spam.

 

[QuiJon]

2 hours ago, macskull said:

This game's community already loves hopping on the "PvPers ruin everything!" bandwagon, I'd rather not give them any more ammunition for their delusions.

But didnt the pvpers ruin this? And i guess to a smaller extent pvers from the master of task force runs but lets get serious, it is less likely the initial complaints of this exploit came from someone whos team all got a hard to get badge by way of an exploit and much more likely the complaining came from pvpers crying that someone cheated them out of their ego stroking kill.  Be that as it may, i dont blame pvpers for this fully. It was an admin slash command and should not have been open to begin with. However once it was and we all got to use it for a year, i dont think this plan is the right solution for it anymore. Just give us a base teleport power that is a portal summon with a resonable cool down like 5 minutes and is greyed out for pvp and MoTF runs. Seems like they could have solve this problem months ago. 

[QuiJon]

6 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

It's already been stated at least twice, but it bears repeating - there's another problem with the slash command, it's exploitable and it has to be removed.  Not limited to only out of combat, or only out of PvP zones, but removed.  It's not a fixable problem.  It has to go.  Everyone will understand when the beta ends, until then, please, honestly, please, realize that it's necessary and for everyone's benefit to remove it.  It's that serious.

I am not arguing to leave the slashcommand open. However if there is an exploit i would think it should have been turned off long ago.

 

What i am saying is their solution is just to much, and to much work. The orro portal is not an exploit right? So why not just copy that mechanic? Just give me a p2w power that summons my own base portal. Wont work in PVP zones, and maybe even give it an in and out of combat modifier like quick snipe or travel suppression has where if i have taken or given damage in like the last 10 seconds it wont activate. 5 minute cool down and it would seem suddenly everyone is happy again right?