Focused Feedback: Travel Updates: Base Teleportation, Long Range Teleporter Accolade, Special TP Powers

[Gunrunner]

7 hours ago, DoctorDitko said:

For most of my characters (ie, not the professional Teleporters), the LRTP Accolade is going to be the "Go to Talos Central Station" power.

 

Since they moved the landing spots, it is turning out to be much more useful than the old Pool power. And the opportunity cost is nil.

That's all well and good, but nothing like that exists redside.  Some of us do live on the Isles.  For me, my base is my travel hub.  Anything that makes it harder to access is a detriment.

[Xanatos]

2 hours ago, Jimmy said:

If you could instantly kill everything with a command, it's not a game anymore. Instantly teleporting around the game world with a command is just the same thing to a lesser degree.

 

You are wrong. It's not equivalent. If players could kill all the characters on the map with one button, you would patch that out overnight. You left /enterbasefrompasscode in the game for over a year.

 

The development team have this weird, and completely incorrect, idea that being able to instantly access SG bases somehow makes travel powers useless, or makes content skippable. (It does neither of those things, and thinking this shows a fundamental lack of knowledge about how the game plays.)

 

Please listen to feedback. The P2W powers need their recharge lowering. I don't understand why you folks are so against even discussing this. I said in closed beta that they should have lower recharge and was told "we don't want to discuss recharge times until it's in live testing". Now it's in live testing you're...ignoring everyone asking for the recharge times to be lowered? Even people, like myself, who are actively testing these powers?

 

Please listen. By all means disagree and do your own thing. Your house your rules. But please listen. The feedback you're arguing against isn't the feedback you're being given.

Edited October 26, 2020 by Xanatos

[Faultline]

17 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

Not trying to be mean, but comments like this concern me and shows you're attacking this from the programmer thinking and not a player.  Not saying that's a bad thing, but the average, casual player isn't going to be editing game files and such and it shouldn't be expected.

They don't have to. /customwindow "My Bases" creates a tiny, collapsible window, by default a tiny grey speck on the top left of the game screen. Click on it to expand it to a full window. Then you can either hit the "New Command" to add macros to it, or drag any existing macros from your power trays to this window. Resize it and move it around as you wish. Clicking on the title bar collapses it back to the tiny grey label so it's not in-your-face while you're playing.

 

 

[Gunrunner]

5 hours ago, Jimmy said:

With a debt cost.

 

Perhaps we should've just applied one death's worth of debt when you use the command? 😉

Yes, there's a debt cost.  That's a game mechanic, nuts and bolts; a death penalty, not fuel for a teleport.  It's not a lore or an immersion reason.  QuiJon is absolutely correct.

[arthurh35353]

2 minutes ago, Faultline said:

They don't have to. /customwindow "My Bases" creates a tiny, collapsible window, by default a tiny grey speck on the top left of the game screen. Click on it to expand it to a full window. Then you can either hit the "New Button" to add macros to it, or drag any existing macros from your power trays to this window. Resize it and move it around as you wish. Clicking on the title bar collapses it back to the tiny grey label so it's not in-your-face while you're playing.

This is, in fact, what he was referring to. I had no idea this existed and I'm not sure I would want to set up all my windows so I could. It's nice an advanced feature is available, but not everyone wants to use advanced features.

[macskull]

38 minutes ago, Heraclea said:

Is there an reason why the power won't work in Ouroboros? 

It's so people can't plant a base portal right on top of the Ouroboros exit.

[CrudeVileTerror]

Thanks for all the replies, @Jimmy.  Especially https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/23372-focused-feedback-travel-updates-base-teleportation-long-range-teleporter-accolade-special-tp-powers/page/11/?tab=comments#comment-280370

That's the kind of stuff I really like to see:  In-depth explanations as to the rationale behind decision-making, giving players the opportunity to address it at the heart.   It's appreciated.

And, for what it's worth . . . it sounds to me like you've got the Long Range Teleport stuff largely sorted.

Any luck on possibly getting a similar level of breakdown for all the other changes associated here?  I'm still scratching my head on the 90-second Ouroboros duration thing.

 

And honestly?   Earning Debt each time the command is used?   SIGN ME UP!

If that's all it took to have /enterbase remain a use-anywhere command, I would gladly accept.  

 

 

 

@Blackbird71; the exploit in question -might- be related to the occasional possibility to respawn at the place you got defeated while in a public zone, which occasionally happens when one uses their Base Mediport upon defeat.  I've done it a handful of times and can't reproduce it, and it never seems to happen if I get defeated while in a mission.

If anyone has been able to figure out a way to do that consistently with the /enterbase command, however, that might be considered a "serious exploit."  Not sure that I'd agree, given how easy it is to revive with Awakens in email or the self Revive Powers from the Super Packs being so incredibly overpowered, on top of all the other ways to get back up with minimal pain . . . just saying:  If that's "the exploit" . . . well, I get it, but don't agree with it.

 

Could be something far worse, though.  Just spitballing a wild theory here, so don't treat this as the actual case, but:  Something which actually disrupts other players' connection to the server.  If someone could weaponize the command to cause other players in a zone to crash to desktop, then yeah.  That's straight-up a serious exploit which makes total sense that they wouldn't want to discuss openly.

 

It would be nice to know where on the scale this purported exploit stands, though.  

"Minor advantage to the player" <-------> "mapserver armageddon."

Anyone who knows the exploit; care to put a pointer somewhere on that line?

[macskull]

Just now, CrudeVileTerror said:

It would be nice to know where on the scale this purported exploit stands, though.  

"Minor advantage to the player" <-------> "mapserver armageddon."

Anyone who knows the exploit; care to put a pointer somewhere on that line?

In some cases it's probably like 2/3 to 3/4 of the way to the right of that scale.

[Replacement]

10 minutes ago, Faultline said:

They don't have to. /customwindow "My Bases" creates a tiny, collapsible window, by default a tiny grey speck on the top left of the game screen. Click on it to expand it to a full window. Then you can either hit the "New Command" to add macros to it, or drag any existing macros from your power trays to this window. Resize it and move it around as you wish. Clicking on the title bar collapses it back to the tiny grey label so it's not in-your-face while you're playing.

 

 

Now if only it remembered window location when you exited game.

[Grouchybeast]

Just now, Replacement said:

Now if only it remembered window location when you exited game.

Can't you save that?  My windows all stay in the same place, anyway, but I'm damned if I remember how I did it.

[Replacement]

Just the custom.window always resets to the upper-left every time i log in, and apparently that's expected. But that's off topic so I won't pursue it here.

[Vanden]

Just now, Replacement said:

Just the custom.window always resets to the upper-left every time i log in, and apparently that's expected. But that's off topic so I won't pursue it here.

Custom windows seem to need a lot of work, still.

[Gunrunner]

51 minutes ago, Faultline said:

Only if you chose to make them macros for the powers tray. CustomWindows and PopMenus exist.

Once again I can't give details until this is patched to live, but it has to do with the way it validates that you are allowed to switch maps, and to which maps you are allowed to switch. Amusingly, supergroup bases are the least of the concern here, since they have their own validation for people who don't have access via SG permissions or passcode.

Thank you!  That's an order of magnitude more data then we had half an hour ago, and will likely change the trajectory of the discussion. 

 

It does bring up another point, though.  If this handshake protocol was something that was actively being exploited, then the changes proposed (whatever their final form is) are warranted.  If, on the other hand, we're looking at an "OMFG, lookit this code, if someone figured this out we're screwed!" sort of thing, then you're just shouting fire in a crowded theater.

 

(Um, CustomWindows?  PopMenus?  I get the terrible feeling I'm missing something vital here... )

Edited October 26, 2020 by Gunrunner
Forgot a word.

[Lines]

I never knew about /customwindow. That's so good!

 

For a visual on how that looks, to reduce power tray clutter:

 

Spoiler

I added a small 'travel' button next to my map.

 

I made it bring up a list of travel macros. They're all either powexecname or powexeclocation self commands.

 

Pressing 'travel' in the top left returns it back to the spot next to the map in the first screenshot.

 

Only downside is I don't see the recharge times on them, but with so many options I'll normally be able to get around.

 

Took under 10 minutes to set up, and I wouldn't say I'm confident with macros.

 

Can these menus be exported and shared across characters?

Edited October 26, 2020 by Lines

[GM Tock]

32 minutes ago, Xanatos said:

The P2W powers need their recharge lowering. I don't understand why you folks are so against even discussing this. I said in closed beta that they should have lower recharge and was told "we don't want to discuss recharge times until it's in live testing". Now it's in live testing you're...ignoring everyone asking for the recharge times to be lowered? Even people, like myself, who are actively testing these powers?

 

Please listen. By all means disagree and do your own thing. Your house your rules. But please listen. The feedback you're arguing against isn't the feedback you're being given.

...but they are listening.  (Emphasis mine.)

  

7 hours ago, Jimmy said:

Without completely changing what the power is, the only ways we can make LRT more useful are:

• Adding more zones (we did this, and may add more in the future after some UI work to not make the long list unwieldly)
• Reducing the activation time (we did this too)
• Reducing the cooldown time (we may do this in the future)

Even with all of those changes, it still wouldn't be worth the opportunity cost of a power pick (especially one that required two subsequent picks) due to how easy travel in the game is.

 

On the other hand, we didn't want to remove LRT from the game entirely for those who liked it - which is why we now have the unlockable version. It's not meant to be amazing, it's meant to just be a nice little bonus that you get for the exploration badges (along with the XP and merits you already get!), and it doesn't have the opportunity cost the old one had.

Granted, I'm advocating for Homecoming Team here, but for a moment ask what's better for the community, six people posting 400 times asking us to dismiss these changes along with a larger player base who doesn't touch the boards at all just finding out about it on Day 1, or finding a better answer after 400 people posted here once or twice each?  That's what we're after.  As you can see, there's a lot of commentary in here from a few people, not to say that it isn't all feedback, but it's time to hear from more people overall.  We're getting the word out on all of our channels and venues.  Get your friends to do the same (play the Beta!), and ask them to respond here in kind.  And if they absolutely hate the boards, #beta-testing-discussion in Discord is just as good with us.

We need more input and ideas, and that comes in different perspectives.  If you tried it in Beta and are making your feedback known, awesome.  (Please understand, I'm not at all saying this to try to discourage you.  You're passionate about the game, and that is always something good.)

Edited October 26, 2020 by GM Tahquitz

[Replacement]

2 minutes ago, Lines said:

Can these menus be exported and shared across characters?

It already is. Custom windows show to everyone using your computer automatically, unless there's some separate way to access the same wizardry.  This is exactly why I use one over macro icons

[Lines]

16 minutes ago, CrudeVileTerror said:

 I'm still scratching my head on the 90-second Ouroboros duration thing.

I think it's because every placed Ouroboros portal will always last 90 seconds rather than disappear when the owner enters it.

 

Say a team of 8 players all leave a mission and they each place their own Ouro portals, you'd end up with a whole bunch of them hanging around. It's maybe best that they don't linger for as long as previously.

[Blackbird71]

2 minutes ago, Replacement said:

It already is. Custom windows show to everyone using your computer automatically, unless there's some separate way to access the same wizardry.  This is exactly why I use one over macro icons

It's also why I don't use these windows in place of macro icons.  I have several macros I use across all of my characters.  But I also have a lot of character-specific macros, and having all of these from all characters in the same window creates unnecessary clutter.  Keeping a handful of macro icons unique to each character is much cleaner.

[@Ghost]

6 minutes ago, Lines said:

I think it's because every placed Ouroboros portal will always last 90 seconds rather than disappear when the owner enters it.

 

Say a team of 8 players all leave a mission and they each place their own Ouro portals, you'd end up with a whole bunch of them hanging around. It's maybe best that they don't linger for as long as previously.

Which also means you can't put them on top of each other and make a bridge anymore. A moment of silence for the Ourobridge. 😢

[CrudeVileTerror]

I don't know the complexity and the potential for failure, but might I suggest a possible "Best of Both Worlds" thing for the drop-portal durations?

Last 5 minutes as long as owning player remains in zone.

Once owner leaves, duration is shortened to (90 minus time-spent-in-zone-post-summoning) seconds, instantly snuffing it out if the 90 seconds have fully elapsed by the time the owner leaves.

 

Alternatively, maybe just simplify to 150 Second duration with a 150 Second Cooldown?

[Lines]

1 minute ago, CrudeVileTerror said:

I don't know the complexity and the potential for failure, but might I suggest a possible "Best of Both Worlds" thing for the drop-portal durations?

Last 5 minutes as long as owning player remains in zone.

Once owner leaves, duration is shortened to (90 minus time-spent-in-zone-post-summoning) seconds, instantly snuffing it out if the 90 seconds have fully elapsed by the time the owner leaves.

 

Alternatively, maybe just simplify to 150 Second duration with a 150 Second Cooldown?

 

Going out on a limb, I would hazard a guess that the new portal isn't aware of who its owner is. I think you're summoning in a separate entity rather than a pet as before (it no longer appears in the pet menu on beta).

 

Otherwise, I think that's not a bad idea. As you say though, might be complex.

[Xanatos]

Appreciate the reply @GM Tahquitz, but I was talking about the P2W powers, not LRT.

 

(It's unfortunate LRT is being tweaked at the same time as everything else. Most of the feedback I've seen in the various discords/in game channels I've seen seem to think LRT is the sole replacement for /enterbasefrompasscode.)

 

33 minutes ago, GM Tahquitz said:

Six people posting 400 times asking us to dismiss these changes along with a larger player base who doesn't touch the boards at all just finding out about it on Day 1, or finding a better answer after 400 people posted here once or twice each? 

 

Where did I ask to dismiss these changes? Where in this thread have I said "delete the new powers, keep /enterbasefrompasscode as it is"? This is exactly what I'm talking about - you folks are not paying attention to negative feedback, even if it's constructive. My post on page 1 is me trying to work with you folks by suggesting tweaks to the new stuff. (And it's the one suggestion that even the naysayers in this thread seem to agree with.)

 

Actually paying attention to what your testers are saying in a focused feedback thread doesn't stop other feedback channels from happening. It just improves this one.

 

Sorry this has gone a little off topic. This is a big change to player QoL. And I want to do as much as I can to help.

 

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by Xanatos

[srmalloy]

24 minutes ago, @Ghost said:

Which also means you can't put them on top of each other and make a bridge anymore. A moment of silence for the Ourobridge. 😢

Remembering when I was part of one of these, building a bridge from the edge of the ski slope in Pocket D out to the floating truck so people without Fly could get the Trucker badge easily, I have to remove my hat.

[arthurh35353]

21 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

Remembering when I was part of one of these, building a bridge from the edge of the ski slope in Pocket D out to the floating truck so people without Fly could get the Trucker badge easily, I have to remove my hat.

Give them enough INF to buy a temp from Monkey Joe's upstairs vendor? I think it's a blistering 5k to 10K...

[srmalloy]

Just now, arthurh35353 said:

Give them enough INF to buy a temp from Monkey Joe's upstairs vendor? I think it's a blistering 5k to 10K...

You're missing the point; it wasn't something that needed to be done; it was something that we could do by working together, and all enjoy being able to do something silly that the game wasn't really set up to allow you to do.