Focused Feedback: Travel Power Updates (Build 1)

[Bopper]

2 minutes ago, arcane said:

Clarifying question most likely already addressed somewhere in this very long thread...: the moving of Afterburner to a pop up tray power... the concealment changes... are we losing an LotG slot anywhere here or do those pools still hold the same number of LotG slottable powers?

 

No, the powers that replaced Afterburner (Evasive Maneuvers) and Invisibility (Infiltration) use the same enhancement sets. Infiltration also adds the ability to slot Universal Travel

[arcane]

1 minute ago, Bopper said:

No, the powers that replaced Afterburner (Evasive Maneuvers) and Invisibility (Infiltration) use the same enhancement sets. Infiltration also adds the ability to slot Universal Travel

Perfect, thanks 🙂

[Teirusu]

Some more quick thoughts,

 

I've seen some people mentioning not being able to run Stealth and Infiltration at the same time.  I've also just realized that Infiltration doesn't have a pop-up tray power like the other travel powers now enjoy.  So, why not strip the stealth portion of Infiltration into a pop-up tray power.  It would then be the pop-up tray power that be exclusive to other stealth powers.

 

This would allow people to layer Stealth on top of Infiltration if they so wish.  For people whom don't take Stealth, they can use the pop-up tray power for stealth whenever they desire.

The added bonus is that for character concepts that don't call for stealth but, still want the mobility of something similar to Ninja Run/etc that's enhance-able, could now take this power and ignore the stealth pop-up tray power.

 

 

The other thought I had,

 

Since some people are saying that Mystic Flight is going to be a poorer choice after this (I don't necessarily agree with this myself, I feel like it'll still be a great pick) it might be really nice if you could use Translocation without Mystic Flight on.  So, you'd basically just get Translocation as a free power.

 

I don't really see much harm in this.  Translocation is still strictly a worse power then the newer Teleport power since it functions more like the older version of Teleport.  (No built-in hover.)  It's not enhance-able along with it's huge endurance cost.  Moreover, the END cost of running Mystic Flight under it is quite tiny compared to the cost of teleporting around with Translocation.  And, you can technically already make a two-press macro that turns on Mystic Flight, then teleports you and shuts off Mystic Flight.  So, this would just remove this annoyance.

Conceptually, it also doesn't make much sense that you can -only- teleport when you're flying.  As far as I know, was only created this way to give people another option then Hover+Teleport.

[macskull]

47 minutes ago, Teirusu said:

I don't really see much harm in this.  Translocation is still strictly a worse power then the newer Teleport power since it functions more like the older version of Teleport.  (No built-in hover.)  It's not enhance-able along with it's huge endurance cost.  Moreover, the END cost of running Mystic Flight under it is quite tiny compared to the cost of teleporting around with Translocation.  And, you can technically already make a two-press macro that turns on Mystic Flight, then teleports you and shuts off Mystic Flight.  So, this would just remove this annoyance.

Conceptually, it also doesn't make much sense that you can -only- teleport when you're flying.  As far as I know, was only created this way to give people another option then Hover+Teleport.

Translocation doesn't have a built-in hover because you have to be running Mystic Flight to use it, and using that two-press macro means you'll drop out of the sky as soon as you teleport (sometimes this is desirable, sometimes it is not). A potential advantage of Translocation relative to Teleport was you didn't have to sit there and wait for 4 seconds before being able to move again, though the current set of changes sort of removes this restriction for Teleport. It's worth noting Translocation does not ignore bonuses such as range increase or endurance reduction, so any amount of those you have via IOs, buffs, or other powers will apply to Translocation even if it can't be directly enhanced.

 

I think the point of the travel power overhaul happening here is there was little reason to use the "old" travel power pools when the newer origin pools were better in virtually every way, so it makes sense Teleport would still retain some advantages over Translocation. The end result is Mystic Flight isn't going to be as fast as Fly and Translocation isn't going to be as flexible as Teleport, but that's okay from a balance perspective because you get both types of travel with only one power pick.

Edited March 19, 2021 by macskull

[Wavicle]

5 hours ago, arthurh35353 said:

“If I have the same slots in flight I should be at the normal caps, even if those normal caps are now higher.”

 

That is an assertion with no basis.

Edited March 19, 2021 by Wavicle

[ForeverLaxx]

15 hours ago, Wavicle said:

No longer hit maximum speed... but are Faster.

 

I think most players are going to correctly see this as a buff.

I and others have said this to that person multiple times, but they want to keep complaining anyway. It keeps getting the thread pruned so it's probably best to just move on.

[Captain Citadel]

20 hours ago, gameboy1234 said:

I like EM a lot.  With EM, I don't need to slot Swift or Fly for flight speed.  I can leave Fly at one slot and put an EndRdx in there, and I can one or two slot EM with EndRdx and I'm pretty happy.  Almost at the flight speed cap.  I assume a few IO set bonuses will get me all the way to the cap, even without trying to slot for it.  This means I can save slots and put them elsewhere, and use Swift for something else.

I think you misunderstand the portion of my post that you quoted. I don't have additional slots in Fly, Swift, or EM. I have to keep the single LotG global recharge IO in EM because my Live build needs it in Afterburner's single slot. I put a single 50+5 generic +FlySpeed IO in Fly and a single one in Swift, because...well, what else would I put in there? I don't need endurance reduction in Fly, I use Hover while fighting. I don't need extra run speed in Swift if I'm never going to use my legs to get around. EM is barely increasing my Fly speed because of how high it already is due to those two simple IOs and my Alpha slot's 33% travel speed bonus.

Basically I was explaining why EM was of such limited benefit to me compared to the Afterburner power currently in that slot. I know we're getting Afterburner as a bonus power now, which is fine. But I need that power slot to have a LotG global recharge set bonus in it because I only have 3 of them in my entire build and I've set it up to achieve perma-Rage without Hasten. EM has effectively turned that power slot into a dead mule, which is disappointing. Like I said before, I already have Tough from the Fighting pool 6-slotted for set bonuses but I never actually turn it on because it only increases S/L resistance, which I'm already overcapped on.

It's nice to have Afterburner for free now, but it doesn't feel great to have a recharge timer on it, and it also doesn't feel great to have Afterburner replaced by a power that I can't really swap out for something else, but also won't benefit much from actually using. Sure, it's one less button to push, but I'm not playing a very demanding build to begin with so that wasn't an issue. I have like 8 active buttons and a whole bunch of toggles as it is.

[gameboy1234]

4 minutes ago, Captain Citadel said:

it also doesn't feel great to have Afterburner replaced by a power that I can't really swap out for something else

You can't trade Afterburner for for anything at all?  But all you use it for is a LotG set mule?  What about Hover, is that already in your build?

 

[ForeverLaxx]

14 minutes ago, Captain Citadel said:

EM has effectively turned that power slot into a dead mule, which is disappointing

Well the toggle does provide -Fly protection, which is pretty nice to have if you fly in combat. It also provides Immob protection, though if you already have CJ that's a bit moot. The bonus speed it provides makes flying around in combat faster than before, which can be helpful if you're one of those "I don't touch the ground if I don't have to" types. The biggest boon you'll probably see is the Knockback Resistance, though. While yes, if you're flying, knockback is already partially mitigated but it does still interrupt power usage. With the Knockback Resist this power will provide, you can lower the magnitude of a knockback effect low enough that even a single KB Protection IO will cover it.

 

Plus, the endurance cost of the power is being cut in half.

 

All of these seem like good reasons to pick up and run the power to me, if you're already flying everywhere.

[Captain Citadel]

1 minute ago, gameboy1234 said:

You can't trade Afterburner for for anything at all?  But all you use it for is a LotG set mule?  What about Hover, is that already in your build?

I already have Hover, Combat Jumping, and Weave in my build. Plus the few defense powers in Invulnerability, which is of course a resistance-based set rather than defense. I'm fine with Afterburner being a mule as it exists on Live because I'm constantly using it to fly fast, obviously. EM is less useful because I've already got -Fly debuff protection from Hover, albeit not as much. EM also gets around the usual in-combat travel suppression, but since I'm generally only using Hover while fighting anyway, that suppression effect barely impacts me as it is. Hover can't exceed the speed Fly is normally reduced to while being suppressed.

Lastly, EM also provides some +Def outside combat, more or less like Afterburner does on Live, but I can't think of a situation I've been in where that +Def actually helped, because the one time I could use a bit more of it is when I'm fighting, meaning I have Afterburner toggled off and am not getting any +Def from it.

Now, if EM were to be tweaked to provide slightly less +Def in combat rather than having that effect completely suppressed, that would make it a genuinely attractive power choice and provide a tangible active benefit to my build. It would be somewhat similar to Stealth in that regard. As it stands, I'm just going to take Afterburner off the extra tray it comes in and put it where EM is and pretty much forget EM is there at all.

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, Captain Citadel said:

I already have Hover, Combat Jumping, and Weave in my build. Plus the few defense powers in Invulnerability, which is of course a resistance-based set rather than defense. I'm fine with Afterburner being a mule as it exists on Live because I'm constantly using it to fly fast, obviously. EM is less useful because I've already got -Fly debuff protection from Hover, albeit not as much. EM also gets around the usual in-combat travel suppression, but since I'm generally only using Hover while fighting anyway, that suppression effect barely impacts me as it is. Hover can't exceed the speed Fly is normally reduced to while being suppressed.

Lastly, EM also provides some +Def outside combat, more or less like Afterburner does on Live, but I can't think of a situation I've been in where that +Def actually helped, because the one time I could use a bit more of it is when I'm fighting, meaning I have Afterburner toggled off and am not getting any +Def from it.

Now, if EM were to be tweaked to provide slightly less +Def in combat rather than having that effect completely suppressed, that would make it a genuinely attractive power choice and provide a tangible active benefit to my build. It would be somewhat similar to Stealth in that regard. As it stands, I'm just going to take Afterburner off the extra tray it comes in and put it where EM is and pretty much forget EM is there at all.

You have Hover, CJ, Weave, Invincibility, and Tough Hide.  That's 5. Why would you need another?

[Captain Citadel]

1 minute ago, Wavicle said:

You have Hover, CJ, Weave, Invincibility, and Tough Hide.  That's 5. Why would you need another?

You're assuming I can afford to slot LotG in every +Def power I have, which is unfortunately not true. It's not a purely Defense-based build, I've set it up so that I can achieve perma-Rage without using Hasten (it's much simpler for me to just set Rage on auto-cast and not have to worry about keeping two powers up) while also devoting a considerable amount of slotting to improving my resistance to all damage types, including Toxic and Psionic to the point where they no longer pose a threat. I have between 72% and 79% resistance to everything that's not S/L, which as I said is already overcapped.

Hover, Afterburner, and Tough Hide hold my 3 LotG global recharge IOs. Invincibility is 5-slotted for 4 pieces of Shield Wall and a Gaussian's Build Up proc. Weave is 4-slotted with the same Shield Wall 4-piece set. The rest of my recharge comes from other miscellaneous set bonuses, plus my Agility Alpha slot Incarnate power.

[Sarn]

Infiltration is not stacking with athletic run. Other travel powers do. I was hoping to see what it was like to have decent jump height and jump/run speed through this combination but currently cannot.  Is this a bug? Or did I miss this particular exception? 

[zenblack]

There is no reason to care what your specific builds are with specific characters. It doesn't matter at all you have to change or respec. Holding the cottage rule so you don't have to change the types of things that are slotted or whatever is currently slotted is enough. Individual build preferences do not matter to the grand scheme of updating the travel powers in a fair and balanced way that provides more options and more benefits.

Edited March 19, 2021 by zenblack

[Bopper]

7 minutes ago, Sarn said:

Infiltration is not stacking with athletic run. Other travel powers do. I was hoping to see what it was like to have decent jump height and jump/run speed through this combination but currently cannot.  Is this a bug? Or did I miss this particular exception? 

It is intended. This update now allows multiple travel powers to be on at the same time however only the largest contributor will be used and the others will suppress. Infiltration has the same base numbers as Athletic Run, so if you enhance it, it will suppress the athletic run effects as they will be lower.

[Sarn]

1 hour ago, Bopper said:

It is intended. This update now allows multiple travel powers to be on at the same time however only the largest contributor will be used and the others will suppress. Infiltration has the same base numbers as Athletic Run, so if you enhance it, it will suppress the athletic run effects as they will be lower.

Yep. Thanks. Figured it out after I went to look at Superspeed. Not sure how attractive that makes Infiltration, though it can be enhanced and is a good LoTG mule. 

[Bopper]

Just now, Sarn said:

Yep. Thanks. Figured it out after I went to look at Superspeed. Not sure how attractive that makes Infiltration, though it can be enhanced and is a good LoTG mule. 

Treat infiltration as a better version of Ninja run as it can be slotted and takes LotG. But if you need premium speed, it is the worst option. Still good, just not as good. You can easily hit the Live version of jump speed cap (78.18 mph), but you'll have a hard time getting to the live version of run speed cap (92.5 mph) even with sprint turned on. The other travel powers now have higher speed caps and it's easier to reach those caps.

[macskull]

2 hours ago, Captain Citadel said:

But I need that power slot to have a LotG global recharge set bonus in it because I only have 3 of them in my entire build and I've set it up to achieve perma-Rage without Hasten.

This doesn't really check with the rest of your post, since Rage has a 120s duration and a 240s recharge and therefore needs no additional recharge short of what you'd already slot in the power.

[Aracknight]

Did we ever get an answer to if the travel portion of infiltration dropping when in combat like the stealth and defense portions was a bug or working as intended?  Sorry, there's a lot of pages to this thread.

[spiritbrand]

I'm not really getting the differentiation between Hover and Evasive Maneuvers. I think I might have to wait and see the numbers and power descriptions.

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, spiritbrand said:

I'm not really getting the differentiation between Hover and Evasive Maneuvers. I think I might have to wait and see the numbers and power descriptions.

They are totally different. EM makes your other Fly powers better. It doesn’t give you flight itself.

[Bopper]

21 minutes ago, Aracknight said:

Did we ever get an answer to if the travel portion of infiltration dropping when in combat like the stealth and defense portions was a bug or working as intended?  Sorry, there's a lot of pages to this thread.

It should have the same 4s suppression other travel powers get in combat. Are you seeing something else?

[Aracknight]

3 minutes ago, Bopper said:

It should have the same 4s suppression other travel powers get in combat. Are you seeing something else?

Truthfully i never noticed that 4 second drop with sprint and ninja run happening on live.  Ill check when i get home.

[Bopper]

19 minutes ago, spiritbrand said:

I'm not really getting the differentiation between Hover and Evasive Maneuvers. I think I might have to wait and see the numbers and power descriptions.

Think of Evasive Maneuvers as a toggle that enhances your current flight. This means you need to have another fly power turned on to get its benefits. 

 

These benefits include +21.48 mph fly speed that does not suppress in combat. For reference, an unslotted hover gives +0 mph fly speed. I've seen some testing of how quickly you can move around while attacking and it's nice. Almost like a fly version of combat teleport.

 

It also gives Immobilization protection amd KB resistance (which is like a multiplier provided to whatever KB protection you have in your build).

 

There's also defense, but it suppresses in combat so I would treat that as purely a LotG for now (we'll see what next patch brings)

[Wavicle]

Just now, Aracknight said:

Truthfully i never noticed that 4 second drop with sprint and ninja run happening on live.  Ill check when i get home.

Doesn’t apply to sprint or ninja run.