Star Allergies: Causes, means to address?

[Ghost]

12 hours ago, Giovanni Valia said:

A friend of mine wanted to do the LRSF a couple nights ago, so we recruited random people from [LFG]. He hadn't completed the patron arc on his character, so I ended up with the star.

 

The people that joined our team said nothing for the entire SF and rushed through to the end. I just don't find "speed-running"  to be any fun, and quite frankly I'm not sure what is really gained by playing that way. Do people really need merits that badly? Mid-way through the SF I'm already thinking, "Let's just get this over with." This sort of "IDC about game-play, I just want the reward" behavior really puts me off from leading teams.

 

This is the exact reason to lead a team

 

First, make it clear that its not a speed run - I always advertise casual or kill all TF's.  Sometime I will get someone who joins that will still ask if its a speed run, and I will gladly tell them "nope".  Some leave, but most stay.

Second, if someone starts taking off, speeding, or doing something you dont want - you (as leader) have the ability to remind everyone "no speed running please".

Third, the Kick button is always an option.  Me, I've only ever used it once.  It was during Pen Yin when someone sped through the last mish, leaving us at the entrance.  I asked him/her to come back, and instead was told "no, lets just get it over with" and sent an ATT request.  I accepted so the team wouldn't be split, and then kicked the person.  No one complained or even said anything.  We finished the TF, and other than the one person, we had a good time.

 

 

[Icono04]

On 4/17/2021 at 7:42 PM, Giovanni Valia said:

and I'm not going to tell people how to play the game.

Wait, what? Isn't that the purpose of these forums - to dictate how other people should play the game and to yell at the devs that they must hardcode the game so that everyone plays the way each poster wants them to?  😄

[Snarky]

On 4/16/2021 at 11:59 PM, Giovanni Valia said:

A friend of mine wanted to do the LRSF a couple nights ago, so we recruited random people from [LFG]. He hadn't completed the patron arc on his character, so I ended up with the star.

 

The people that joined our team said nothing for the entire SF and rushed through to the end. I just don't find "speed-running"  to be any fun, and quite frankly I'm not sure what is really gained by playing that way. Do people really need merits that badly? Mid-way through the SF I'm already thinking, "Let's just get this over with." This sort of "IDC about game-play, I just want the reward" behavior really puts me off from leading teams.

The LRSF and MLTF are very bad examples for your point.  Your friend is ignorant.  Nothing wrong with that, it just means they do not know something.  They can learn.  Unless they are stupid.  That is a problem then.  Pointing all of that our may seem a bit....Snarky.

 

Seriously though.  The LRSF and MLTF are not kill alls.  They are VERY objective driven TFs.  If you know the content you know exactly where to go, when, who to kill, get it done.  It is not "speed," it is efficiency.  Unfortunately this makes it difficult for people new to the TF to ever learn it.  They have no idea where people are going, what they are doing, or why the "Mission Complete" sign popped up.  I came in late to the game (Good vs Evil edition) and loved to solo.  Those two TFs in particular left me confused due to my...ignorance....for quite some time.

 

You could take a group of friends through the LRSF and slowly kill every mob on the way to each objective.  These are pretty big maps.  Plan a dinner break.

Edited April 19, 2021 by Snarky

[Shred Monkey]

36 minutes ago, Snarky said:

The LRSF and MLTF are very bad examples for your point.  Your friend is ignorant.  Nothing wrong with that, it just means they do not know something.  They can learn.  Unless they are stupid.  That is a problem then.  Pointing all of that our may seem a bit....Snarky.

 

Seriously though.  The LRSF and MLTF are not kill alls.  They are VERY objective driven TFs.  If you know the content you know exactly where to go, when, who to kill, get it done.  It is not "speed," it is efficiency.  Unfortunately this makes it difficult for people new to the TF to ever learn it.  They have no idea where people are going, what they are doing, or why the "Mission Complete" sign popped up.  I came in late to the game (Good vs Evil edition) and loved to solo.  Those two TFs in particular left me confused due to my...ignorance....for quite some time.

 

You could take a group of friends through the LRSF and slowly kill every mob on the way to each objective.  These are pretty big maps.  Plan a dinner break.

Yeah.. I agree.  I've done MsLTF and LRSF probably 200-300 times over the last few years.  Exactly 0 times did I see anything but an "objectives only" run.   I generally prefer to do kill-through runs for any TF, so its not that I'm choosing only speed runs.  But for those two, a "speed run" really is assumed if the leader doesn't explicitly state differently.  For anything else I wait for the leader to express their intent before going off.

[Crysis]

I can only speak for myself, but I take it personally when I’m leading a team and people are getting clobbered.  Then, if I try to turn down difficulty, everybody INCLUDING THE PEOPLE GETTING CLOBBERED drops team looking for a +4/x8 group.  And if you actually try to lead, there’s always the players who don’t even read in-game chat box, who don’t speak/read English natively or who for other reason are just in steamroll mode.  So ultimately, I tend to only lead if it’s a series of missions to accomplish a very specific goal (like, Maria Jenkin’s AV arc, for example) or just blind radio missions where I know the PUG will be forming/reforming/dropping/adding as the night goes on and none of us are really in it other than for XP and giggles.

 

So basically, leading gains you almost nothing and actively deducts from the fun-factor of what is and always has been a very non-competitive, casual gaming experience for me.  It’s a co-op game for the most part (at least for PVE) and I prefer to not place or have placed any expectations on my playstyle accordingly.

[Apparition]

16 minutes ago, Crysis said:

I can only speak for myself, but I take it personally when I’m leading a team and people are getting clobbered.  Then, if I try to turn down difficulty, everybody INCLUDING THE PEOPLE GETTING CLOBBERED drops team looking for a +4/x8 group.  And if you actually try to lead, there’s always the players who don’t even read in-game chat box, who don’t speak/read English natively or who for other reason are just in steamroll mode.  So ultimately, I tend to only lead if it’s a series of missions to accomplish a very specific goal (like, Maria Jenkin’s AV arc, for example) or just blind radio missions where I know the PUG will be forming/reforming/dropping/adding as the night goes on and none of us are really in it other than for XP and giggles.

 

So basically, leading gains you almost nothing and actively deducts from the fun-factor of what is and always has been a very non-competitive, casual gaming experience for me.  It’s a co-op game for the most part (at least for PVE) and I prefer to not place or have placed any expectations on my playstyle accordingly.

The ones who drop from teams not at +4x8 tend to be AE babies, (this includes those who do PI radio Council farms).  They have absolutely no idea of how to play the game and assume that one level 50 character (no matter the AT even), can carry them through everything at +4x8.

 

I have noticed a rather disturbing trend over the past few months of a lot of people treating Strike/Task Forces like radio missions where they think that they can come and go as they please.  The vast majority of SFs/TFs/Trials that I have done since around November have had people either silently log, try to switch characters, or say something like “Thanks for the team, take care.” and quit the team halfway through.  I now form SFs/TFs/Trials, expecting to lose at least one person by the end.

Edited April 19, 2021 by Apparition

[Crysis]

16 minutes ago, Apparition said:

The ones who drop from teams not at +4x8 tend to be AE babies, (this includes those who do PI radio Council farms).  They have absolutely no idea of how to play the game and assume that one level 50 character (no matter the AT even), can carry them through everything at +4x8.

 

I have noticed a rather disturbing trend over the past few months of a lot of people treating Strike/Task Forces like radio missions where they think that they can come and go as they please.  The vast majority of SFs/TFs/Trials that I have done since around November have had people either silently log, try to switch characters, or say something like “Thanks for the team, take care.” and quit the team halfway through.  I now form SFs/TFs/Trials, expecting to lose at least one person by the end.

 

The thing about +4/x8 missions that many “I’m the 50+3 Incarnate leader, and if I can handle this so can everyone else” leaders don’t get is how MM’s play.  If I have an MM on my team I -always- note how their henchmen are holding up.  Their T1’s in many cases won’t be surviving a single spawn let alone contributing much, and their T2’s not much better.  But again, I take it personally that the MM might not be having a good time teaming because of the feeling of lack of contribution.  If you want that kind of XP and really won’t be able to contribute much just go hang out in AE, plenty of sitting opportunities abound there.  

 

But again, as a leader, I feel that pressure to shepherd the weaker players while still catering to the stronger ones.  And that subtracts from my fun factor for the night.  I end up feeling like I’m playing Sim-Hero rather than playing a Super-something myself.  Maybe this all just goes back to the original “Sidekicking” mechanism in this game, something that attracted me at first and still sticks with me to this day.

 

 

Likewise, I have great admiration for regular TF, Trial or mission leaders.  They go on my friends’ list in a hurry, especially the regular League operators (looking at YOU @Oklahoman).  It takes a special kind of heart to stuff your tray full of helpful instruction macros, assemble the league, deal with the drama and otherwise just LEAD something.  I’m glad they are here, but in total honesty, at a 1:7 ratio for full teams, they are the rarest of Supers we have in the game.  Thank you from the bottom of my introverted little black heart.

Edited April 19, 2021 by Crysis

[Giovanni Valia]

5 hours ago, Snarky said:

The LRSF and MLTF are very bad examples for your point.  Your friend is ignorant.  Nothing wrong with that, it just means they do not know something.  They can learn.  Unless they are stupid.  That is a problem then.  Pointing all of that our may seem a bit....Snarky.

 

Seriously though.  The LRSF and MLTF are not kill alls.  They are VERY objective driven TFs.  If you know the content you know exactly where to go, when, who to kill, get it done.  It is not "speed," it is efficiency.  Unfortunately this makes it difficult for people new to the TF to ever learn it.  They have no idea where people are going, what they are doing, or why the "Mission Complete" sign popped up.  I came in late to the game (Good vs Evil edition) and loved to solo.  Those two TFs in particular left me confused due to my...ignorance....for quite some time.

 

You could take a group of friends through the LRSF and slowly kill every mob on the way to each objective.  These are pretty big maps.  Plan a dinner break.

 

Ironic considering I joined a kill all LRSF last night, and it was much more enjoyable to any "speed" runs. To each their own. When you have all the inf you could possibly need, 30+ lvl 50s, all the badges, the combat itself is the reward. We all know how to run speed LRSF, that is not fun though.

 

Edit: One major problem with leading teams redside is they almost always take a long time to fill. I sometimes wonder if the in-game LFG queue system would be faster if everyone used that to randomly generate teams.

Edited April 19, 2021 by Giovanni Valia

[Crysis]

2 hours ago, Giovanni Valia said:

I sometimes wonder if the in-game LFG queue system would be faster if everyone used that to randomly generate teams.

 

I probably dreamt it during the “dark years” between Live shutdown and HC release, but I could have sworn that was what the LFG function was -supposed- to do....auto create a team from people who threw up their LFG flag.  

 

If it doesn’t, opportunity lost.  It would add a whole new dimension to PUGs that were formed literally by “first available LFG flag.”  Of course, you’d likely end up with a team of all scrappers, but heck...they never team anyways.

[Snarky]

3 hours ago, Apparition said:

I have noticed a rather disturbing trend over the past few months of a lot of people treating Strike/Task Forces like radio missions where they think that they can come and go as they please.  The vast majority of SFs/TFs/Trials that I have done since around November have had people either silently log, try to switch characters, or say something like “Thanks for the team, take care.” and quit the team halfway through.  I now form SFs/TFs/Trials, expecting to lose at least one person by the end.

i have seen this on PUGs lately.  thought i was just unlucky,  *straightens up and waves cane in the air "Back in my day it was considered embarrassing to quit a task force."

[Apparition]

1 minute ago, Snarky said:

i have seen this on PUGs lately.  thought i was just unlucky,  *straightens up and waves cane in the air "Back in my day it was considered embarrassing to quit a task force."

 

Nope, it's not just you.  My few friends that still play have all seen the same thing as well over the past few months.  We blame all of the farming between AE and PI Council radio missions.  It's taught newbies that how you do AE farms and PI Council radio mission farms are how you play the game.  I.E., join for twenty minutes, get a few levels, and then quit or switch.

[Giovanni Valia]

2 hours ago, Apparition said:

 

Nope, it's not just you.  My few friends that still play have all seen the same thing as well over the past few months.  We blame all of the farming between AE and PI Council radio missions.  It's taught newbies that how you do AE farms and PI Council radio mission farms are how you play the game.  I.E., join for twenty minutes, get a few levels, and then quit or switch.

 

I've been noticing this as well. It's usually mid-level people that will drop team with no warning or explanation as to why. The AE farm theory makes sense though for the change in recent behavior. That or people just have shorter attention spans now >_>

[Apparition]

20 minutes ago, Giovanni Valia said:

 

I've been noticing this as well. It's usually mid-level people that will drop team with no warning or explanation as to why. The AE farm theory makes sense though for the change in recent behavior. That or people just have shorter attention spans now >_>

 

 

It's not just mid-level teams.  I've seen it a lot, and I do mean A LOT on Tinpex TFs.  I don't mean between the Apex and Tin Mage TFs either.  I mean people just DCing or quitting while on a mission.  I don't get it.  I understand that people may have time constraints, but don't sign up for the TF/SF/Trial then in the first place.

 

I've been playing on another shard the past couple of weeks just to compare, and I haven't seen it there, which only strengthens my suspicion it's due to the extremely heavy farm culture on the Excelsior shard.  It's taught newbies to the game to play the entire game like it's a danged farm.

[Grindingsucks]

13 hours ago, Apparition said:

 

 

It's not just mid-level teams.  I've seen it a lot, and I do mean A LOT on Tinpex TFs.  I don't mean between the Apex and Tin Mage TFs either.  I mean people just DCing or quitting while on a mission.  I don't get it.  I understand that people may have time constraints, but don't sign up for the TF/SF/Trial then in the first place.

 

I've been playing on another shard the past couple of weeks just to compare, and I haven't seen it there, which only strengthens my suspicion it's due to the extremely heavy farm culture on the Excelsior shard.  It's taught newbies to the game to play the entire game like it's a danged farm.

 

It could be first timers rage-quitting in frustration over these two abominably designed TFs.  If they knew about the "orbital lance" or "blue death" cheese, they probably wouldn't have joined in the first place.

 

Still not cool to skip out in the middle of the TF without so much as a fare-the-well, though.  Sorry you had to deal with that.

[SuperPlyx]

11 minutes ago, Grindingsucks said:

 two abominably designed TFs

You misspelled awesome!

[Grindingsucks]

9 minutes ago, SuperPlyx said:

You misspelled awesome!

 

Well, granted- such things are subjective.  😁

 

I was merely speculating on possible reasons folks might abandon either of those two TFs.  But, yes- I am sure there are those players that *sigh*... love them.  

[golstat2003]

44 minutes ago, Grindingsucks said:

 

Well, granted- such things are subjective.  😁

 

I was merely speculating on possible reasons folks might abandon either of those two TFs.  But, yes- I am sure there are those players that *sigh*... love them.  

 

I personally find them annoying also. But I still like the tfs for how fast they are and not a slog to get through, so I deal. lol

[Grindingsucks]

Okay- I can grok that.  Those ITF's can get pretty exhausting, sometimes.  👍

[Crysis]

4 hours ago, SuperPlyx said:

You misspelled awesome!

I was going to say.....I can fully understand anyone dropping out of any TF or even Black Swan mission that takes place in the Shadow Shart.  That entire zone and all its content was written by a sadistic intern.

[Glacier Peak]

Leading is its own reward.

[cranebump]

6 hours ago, Crysis said:

I was going to say.....I can fully understand anyone dropping out of any TF or even Black Swan mission that takes place in the Shadow Shart.  That entire zone and all its content was written by a sadistic intern.

 

Yeah, seemsh the Shadow Shart kinda shucks ballsh doeshn’t it?

[MTeague]

I *like* the Shadow Shard!  

 

Butt I also don't mind travel time and I'm one of those players who generally never used /enterbasefrompasscode, and only uses mission teleporters when the team is busting htem out on a regular basis.  If travel time is anathema to you, I could see it being an issue. 

[Darmian]

On 4/20/2021 at 1:07 AM, Apparition said:

It's taught newbies to the game to play the entire game like it's a danged farm.

Ah, there's the rub.

 

Farming IS part of playing the game, indeed to some, and why not, farming is their game.  But, farming does not equal playing "the game".  Oh well. Different strokes I suppose.

[seebs]

I developed a tactic for running teams which was just to say "fine by me" whenever anyone asks about anything and basically just run with it, and that seems fine.

 

[cranebump]

Well, I advertised for a lowbie Port Oakes bank team, and actually got 5 peeps (2 of them were exemplared 50s). Couldn't get to 8. And when I broadcast for mishes leading up to the bank?  Crickets. 

 

I'm planning on running the character to Blueside via Tips. I'll continue to seek teams, but don't have super high hopes. 

 

It's enough to make one develop a star allergy...:-)

Edited April 22, 2021 by cranebump