Is there any way to make teams less boring?

[Giovanni Valia]

32 minutes ago, Apparition said:

Yep.  I know over a dozen people that stopped playing Homecoming over the past year and a half due to the lack of new endgame content.  Only so many times that you can do MLTFs, LRSFs, Dr. Kahn TFs, BAF Trials, Underground Trials, etc., and not get bored.

 

 I am sure that once new endgame content is added to Homecoming, they will be back.

 

I can echo this sentiment. Myself and about a dozen or so other people I know have virtually stopped playing on HC because of this. We have "Completed" the game. I have obtained every badge, can solo +4/8 content with ease, and have a full roster of various lvl 53 alts. There isn't much else the game can offer us at this point, only so many times we can run the SF/ TFs.

 

The solution? More content, especially high lvl, endgame, difficult content. HC is really dragging it's feet in this regard.

[Apparition]

1 minute ago, Giovanni Valia said:

 

I can echo this sentiment. Myself and about a dozen or so other people I know have virtually stopped playing on HC because of this. We have "Completed" the game. I have obtained every badge, can solo +4/8 content with ease, and have a full roster of various lvl 53 alts. There isn't much else the game can offer us at this point, only so many times we can run the SF/ TFs.

 

The solution? More content, especially high lvl, endgame, difficult content. HC is really dragging it's feet in this regard.

 

 

Yep.  Homecoming can (and should) add more low-and-mid-level content, but it's not going to bring back my friends that have left.  Only new endgame content will.

[Giovanni Valia]

1 minute ago, Apparition said:

 

 

Yep.  Homecoming can (and should) add more low-and-mid-level content, but it's not going to bring back my friends that have left.  Only new endgame content will.

 

As a test for how OP our characters have become, I've taken to creating AE arcs with enemy groups composed entirely of custom bosses/ AVs. Even this is not a challenge for many of the people I've played with. The ease with which we can obtain "uber" level has changed the game IMO.

[Darmian]

2 minutes ago, Giovanni Valia said:

 

As a test for how OP our characters have become, I've taken to creating AE arcs with enemy groups composed entirely of custom bosses/ AVs. Even this is not a challenge for many of the people I've played with. The ease with which we can obtain "uber" level has changed the game IMO.

I still find it wonderful that people have such different types of fun in this game though 🙂  I personally care nothing for builds or what have you, it's all about story story story, and the AEs I look for could be just medium/low level powerwise but if it has a good story then that's a hit for me.  Each to their own I suppose.

[Giovanni Valia]

32 minutes ago, Darmian said:

I still find it wonderful that people have such different types of fun in this game though 🙂  I personally care nothing for builds or what have you, it's all about story story story, and the AEs I look for could be just medium/low level powerwise but if it has a good story then that's a hit for me.  Each to their own I suppose.

 

Certainly, story is important and can really make the game experience enjoyable, especially at low-mid levels. Getting back to @RogueWolf OP's point though, is it really enjoyable to have 2-3 people steam roll through all the enemy mobs while the rest of the team sits back? I think there would be more opportunities for people to contribute to teams if the difficulty could be ramped up even further beyond +4/8.

 

The power-creep is here to stay. Sure, I can wear cement shoes to "increase the difficulty". But do people really like limiting themselves this way rather than making their characters as strong as possible?

Edited March 25, 2021 by Giovanni Valia

[Darmian]

46 minutes ago, Giovanni Valia said:

But do people really like limiting themselves this way rather than making their characters as strong as possible?

See, you say limiting themselves, I don't even see it like that.  It is literally not important to me as long as I'm having fun.  Sure, you want to be tough enough to survive, but that's it mostly. Limiting?  Nope. Are you Daredeveil or Thor?  If the former you have way more scope, and no it's not limiting, it's just a different path. If the latter then if it's not God butchers, Thanos or Hela (bit of Loki thrown in) you're outta luck.  But as I say, each to their own.

 

As to 2 to 3 people steamrolling through a TF and 5 flunkies?  I just quit those.  Yeah, my bad.  But I didn't join a team to bulk up your numbers on XP, and I don't play that way, so toodles.

 

As an aside, we really need to nerf the term "endgame content", what is meant is Incarnate level and beyond, rather than content that happens at the end of the game, because content wise plenty of the actual "endgame content" isn't near level 50+.  New Praetorians being an example.

Edited March 25, 2021 by Darmian

[Coyote]

1 hour ago, Apparition said:

Yep.  I know over a dozen people that stopped playing Homecoming over the past year and a half due to the lack of new endgame content.  Only so many times that you can do MLTFs, LRSFs, Dr. Kahn TFs, BAF Trials, Underground Trials, etc., and not get bored.

 

 I am sure that once new endgame content is added to Homecoming, they will be back.

 

One thing that I wonder about is this....
Everyone who is interested in them has run multiples of the common TFs, Hami Raids, MSR, etc.

How many have formed a team and run the First Ward/Night Ward arc? Have fun on that with a +4/x8 difficulty, hehe. Each zone's arcs is bigger than a TF, but you could run just a couple of the contacts and have fun.

There are some other arcs that could be interesting... Mr G or Provost Marchand, Number 6, etc.

Fighting the arc that ends in the Jade Spider would probably also be cool.

 

Only catch is that it may not be so easy to get merits for everyone since everyone would need to have the contacts to get the arcs and thus the merits... but if merits are the goal, then just run one of the repeated TFs. If seeing new content is the goal, frankly, I've seen all of the above TFs advertised on LFG channel... not seen those difficult story arcs advertised much if at all.

[MTeague]

6 minutes ago, Darmian said:

See, you say limiting themselves, I don't even see it like that.  It is literally not important to me as long as I'm having fun.  Sure, you want to be tough enough to survive, but that's it mostly. Limiting?  Nope. Are you Daredeveil or Thor?  If the former you have way more scope, and no it's not limiting, it's just a different path. If the latter then if it's not God butchers, Thanos or Hela (bit of Loki thrown in) you're outta luck.  But as I say, each to their own.

 

As an aside, we really need to nerf the term "endgame content", what is meant is Incarnate level and beyond, rather than content that happens at the end of the game, because content wise plenty of the actual "endgame content" isn't near level 50+.  New Praetorians being an example.

 

This.  "endgame" for me, is rolling more alts, and exploring the story of each new alt as they level up, deciding how they fit into the rest of my squad, etc. 

 

Although it's also true, that, at some point, every game has a shelf life, and at some point, the day may come when I'm simply done. 

And that's not really the end of the world, either.  

[Darmian]

We've drifted a bit!

[Templarstone]

3 hours ago, Grindingsucks said:

 

Sure.  I think maybe some clarification is in order about what some of us mean when we use that phrase.

 

Some of us are looking for RP-oriented team-based combat that emulates what we see in the comics.  In the comics, hero teams practice and train together (think of the X-men's Danger Room, etc.) and develop specific tactics for combatting foes.  Each member of the team brings something unique to it, that is their particular talent or powerset, that effectively helps the team hang together and perform effectively in the face of dire threats.  Any team member that has not fully learned how to control and best apply their powerset is a weak link the team roster.

 

Some of us want team-based combat to be interesting and dynamic and to provide leverage for drama/story-based play focused around learning said teamwork and developing tactics.  We view team-based play in CoX as being potentially more complex, interesting, and exciting than a gang of 8 random, over-tuned AT's in a PUG, that each surge across the map randomly hammering power buttons, with little to no strategy or interaction, while still being able to clear the mission in an astonishingly short time, even at +4/8.  We want tankers to feel like they are the reliable bedrock- that anchor that draws aggro and bravely stands in the center of the enemy, weathering a hail of blows so that the controller can immobilize the foe or hobble them, or turn them against each other.  We want to wait for the Stalker to scout ahead and provide valuable intelligence on enemy positions, then relay this to the team leader (who is perhaps the scrapper or blaster with good charisma, tactical planning skills, and leadership pool powers- or another AT similarly inclined) who may decide a plan of attack, or task that Stalker with infiltrating and assassinating a certain sentry, group of sentries, or enemy boss.

 

This is not really an example of something that is "wrong" or "broken" with the game (although many of us might- rightly, I think- argue that power creep has rendered team play less interesting at higher levels) but, rather, a kind of play preference.  In my view, the thing to do to address this issue is to find other, like-minded people to enjoy that kind of play.  I have, in the past, felt like such an outlier that it seemed pointless to pursue such a group, thinking that there are not enough members of the player base with the same view of team play, to make a group of this kind.

 

This topic is beginning to make me feel like that might not be true, after all.  Perhaps, those few of us who want to experience something deeper during team play might be able to band together and create the very thing that we desire.

 

I, for one, certainly hope this will prove to be the case.  🙂🙏

It's not pointless. There is a group on Everlasting that is running as close to issue 0 as they can.   So you never know.  Make an SG post a recruitment here and on the discord detailing what you're plan is and what you want.  You may just end up surprised

[Grindingsucks]

@Templarstone I made this one two hours ago:  The Thirty-Fivers

 

Alas, no bites as of yet.  Still, the day is young.  🤷‍♂️

[Snarky]

20 minutes ago, Grindingsucks said:

@Templarstone I made this one two hours ago:  The Thirty-Fivers

 

Alas, no bites as of yet.  Still, the day is young.  🤷‍♂️

50 is the new 35 🙂

 

[Grindingsucks]

8 minutes ago, Snarky said:

50 is the new 35 🙂

 

You don't have to tell me, brother.  

[honoroit]

1 hour ago, MTeague said:

 

This.  "endgame" for me, is rolling more alts, and exploring the story of each new alt as they level up, deciding how they fit into the rest of my squad, etc. 

 

Although it's also true, that, at some point, every game has a shelf life, and at some point, the day may come when I'm simply done. 

And that's not really the end of the world, either.  

 

Yes, otherwise no one has a wow alt, nor a classic set. No one levels other jobs on ffxiv, no one tries a new one in eso/bdo/... 

 

Telling you tho: open pvp in all zones (including pocketD and ouro) is THE answer to every problem. 

 

I'd drop everything and move to that kinda homecoming server. Don't think I'd be alone. 

 

Think how exciting it'd be. Also, they can corpse loot merits, recipes and enh...and half your inf. 

[honoroit]

... Most exciting coh moment... Remember clearly to this day... 

 

Mukti, a fire/rad corruptor, destined for great things - me. Thinking I'm tuff-rough-and-tumble, killing mobs in bloody bay. 

 

I chanced to look to the skies, from my perch on a roof... And behold!

 

A super jumping hero, who I found later to be called 'stugatz' (also a good tanker), with enormous hammer brandished, connected and sent me careening. 

 

Disoriented, as a human player, I tried to fight back. I burned him, bathed in my mutant radiation, trying to regenerate. To no avail. 

 

He pound me to a pulp, it was the single greatest pvp moment in CoX live. 

 

Open PVP, everywhere! 

[Darmian]

10 minutes ago, honoroit said:

Telling you tho: open pvp in all zones (including pocketD and ouro) is THE answer to every problem. 

 

I'd drop everything and move to that kinda homecoming server. Don't think I'd be alone. 

(a) God no. 

(b) See (a).

(c) Did I mention (a)?  See (a).

(d) You might not be alone, but you'd still be on a lonely server.

[Darmian]

That said, I DID advocate - and some thought me mad - that Echo DA be (a) changed to PVP or (b) doubled (like when the game generates a second version of a zone due to cap levels) as a PVP zone.  Hunting through the fog, people!

[Luminara]

2 hours ago, Giovanni Valia said:

Sure, I can wear cement shoes to "increase the difficulty". But do people really like limiting themselves this way rather than making their characters as strong as possible?

 

Limits are limits.  If you decided to stop adding Resistance when you hit 43%, it'd be functionally identical to the HC team capping your Resistance at 43%.  But at least, in setting the limit for yourself, you're making a choice, rather than obeying a dictate.  I'd rather be free to make that choice than a slave to someone else's decision.

 

And choosing to impose our own limitations forces us to find alternative solutions, different approaches, which wouldn't exist at all if developer-imposed limits of a similar nature were in place.  That makes us better players by expanding our knowledge and pushing us to work harder.

[Xeph]

12 hours ago, Darmian said:

Cap teams at 5 outside of Incarnate Trials!  WOO!

 

I know I was discussing the personal perceived benefits of 5 man teams but I'd never wish for that in general. I'm grateful for the 8 man team size. And frankly I'd be more interested in increasing the size than shrinking it - but that's an entirely different discussion. 

 

There are two inherent problems with forcefully reducing the team sizes.

1. It's bad for the social environment of the game. Having a team size greater than 5, even if it's not "fun", still provides a benefit to everyone involved. Especially those running SG groups or big groups of friends.
2. By having larger teams we avoid getting stuck in the rut of all other MMOs HOLY TRINITY setup. Because as long as we pile enough on of SOMETHING it'll work out in the end. But if suddenly everything was restricted to 5 man teams we'd see tons of teams with 1 Tank/1 Brute, 1 Healer/Support, 3 DPS. It'd be horrible. Among many reasons, I've played this game to avoid that.

12 hours ago, cranebump said:

I'm for it! Call it a "Star Configuration" or something (like the Clan Stars in Battletech [there's somethin' I haven't thought of in ages]). 

 

What a great name for the team style. From now on when I do one of my 3-5 man teams I'll call it such. "LF2M for Level 12 Star Team, PST if interested." Initially I know I'll get a bunch of "What the heck is a star team?" in LFG but if enough of us do it frequently enough, eventually people will get familiar with it. Silly... but fun.

 

I suspect some people will lash out in LFG telling me how dumb I am too but honestly I'm fine with that. As long as we're both having fun, in our own way, nobody is wrong. They just won't be star material. 🙂

[cranebump]

@Zeph, I have plenty of Excel chars. I’ll be looking for Star runs when you announce.:-)

[Xeph]

11 minutes ago, cranebump said:

@Zeph, I have plenty of Excel chars. I’ll be looking for Star runs when you announce.:-)

Haha, awesome. Look forward to grouping in the future.

[Xiddo]

On 3/23/2021 at 11:02 PM, RogueWolf said:

Four of you kinda plowed through it by yourselves. We barely said anything to each other the whole time because no one felt the need to communicate. All I did was follow behind the pack as you ran off like toddlers on a sugar high and occasionally dropped a buff to feel like I was doing something. I never hit anything because it was dead before my attack animation was over. But I guess that really is some folks' idea of fun?  

<snip>

 

IMHO, game balance is fine up through the 30s (when everyone is at most level 35), and even over that level on up when soloing, or until the team gets to like 5 people. Then it all breaks down and nothing is a challenge anymore even at +4x8 except for a tiny handful of enemies like Vanguard or IDF.

 

 

 

If I am brutally honest with myself, I think I am probably one of these people who can plow through stuff relatively well and can sometimes leave people behind. I main a plant dom, so really the mobs end up doing more of the work than some of the team. But I'm aware of it.
So, I make a really, really, vested effort to talk rubbish/ ask about sets/ comment on costumes or names I think are good/ make awful jokes with people. I really get bored in silent teams. If we're not chatting them I'm just pressing 5,6,4,1,6,4,9. Ive accepted the power creep, the game is quite easy now, so I might as well enjoy the ride and chat with people. So I guess I'm sorry you've had a bad time. I'd love to team if you're around 🙂

Also completely agree with the game balance/ level range for teamwork point. There are a few arcs that really shine in a team, especially under lvl 30, I'm thinking the Montague arc where you rescue Lady Grey and she charges at the Circle like a lunatic.
I exemp down for TFs/teams a lot more than I do any kind of 50 content because I think it's more fun and interesting. These are TFs I think that suit themselves to teamwork best. So I run em a lot. Obvs personal opinion:
posi 1 & 2 - set to +1/+2. Probably the most TF for me. Really enjoy it. Both of those last missions are fun. The staircase ambush in posi 1? Love it. I did a kill all posi 2 a while ago and ever since I make a point of hunting out the extra elite boss, Cortex. More XP!

mantis - that last mission is an absolute hoot if you all go together and clear a path from the bottom (don't kill all, I'm not a madman). It is CHAOS otherwise. I know you can go right to the top and do it then but... blah blah blah. Sky Raiders are silly and fun.

Virgil Tarikoss - that CoT mission can be a pain, not everyone can stealth, just run it as a team, and that LB mission <chefs kiss> - who doesnt like fighting chicken nuggets?

Sutter -  that roof top stuff? The big rooms? War walkers? Pay attention lads or youre gonna get knocked out of the sky.

[tidge]

14 hours ago, Giovanni Valia said:

 

I can echo this sentiment. Myself and about a dozen or so other people I know have virtually stopped playing on HC because of this. We have "Completed" the game. I have obtained every badge, can solo +4/8 content with ease, and have a full roster of various lvl 53 alts. There isn't much else the game can offer us at this point, only so many times we can run the SF/ TFs.

 

The solution? More content, especially high lvl, endgame, difficult content. HC is really dragging it's feet in this regard.

 

The proposed solution doesn't really address why folks couldn't be more chatty during teams. If anything, "Masters of +4x8" should be able to char MORE during missions.

 

[Snarky]

1 hour ago, tidge said:

 

The proposed solution doesn't really address why folks couldn't be more chatty during teams. If anything, "Masters of +4x8" should be able to char MORE during missions.

 

Huh.  You got me there.  I like to throw random comment.  Always say Wazzup or Heyas at team start.  Maybe ask about group intentions to clarify at beginning.  After that my commentary generally goes down to "Here"  or "Anyone have eyes on?"  

 

I think there needs to be a requirement of at least 25 words every 5 minutes or you are booted from the TF.  Would that work for you?

[Xeph]

 

16 hours ago, Giovanni Valia said:

 

I can echo this sentiment. Myself and about a dozen or so other people I know have virtually stopped playing on HC because of this. We have "Completed" the game. I have obtained every badge, can solo +4/8 content with ease, and have a full roster of various lvl 53 alts. There isn't much else the game can offer us at this point, only so many times we can run the SF/ TFs.

 

The solution? More content, especially high lvl, endgame, difficult content. HC is really dragging it's feet in this regard.

 

To me this is a very interesting perspective. Because in my opinion, seriously just an opinion not a fact, you can never complete this game. There is always something you can come up with to do... thus the reason I have 45 characters and only a few 50s.

 

And while you aren't wrong, MORE content would make the game more enticing, it's not a realistic expectation. The Homecoming team is a bunch of incredible volunteers. They don't get paid, they don't get time off, and havens knows all us folks complaining on the forums ARE NOT a benefit. If they were a fully supported and funded team I'd jump on and agree with you - there should be more. But frankly I'm genuinely grateful with what has been offered despite the scenario we find ourselves in. Several new power sets and power pools to explore along with a really cool new story arc.

 

I don't wish to insinuate anything on your behalf but your statement suggests yourself and your comrades tended to take a very similar approach to content. This game is pretty sneaky in how it hides missions away out of common sight. To this day I'm still occasionally tripping across a contact/arc and heck, even maps, I've never seen before.

 

One other really great option is AE - while I haven't played through tons of AE content there are some fantastic Arcs hidden away in there (admittedly buried under all the fire farms...). Content that is on par with much of what the original Devs had made. There is one minor grievance with taking the AE approach to leveling though - you'll never get any merits. I'm by no means suggesting they SHOULD give merits but it is certainly a disadvantage.

 

I hate to harp on the same point I made earlier but ultimately it's up to us to make the best of it.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Xeph
Words are hard.