Group fly and Null the Gull

[Communistpenguin]

Can we get an option to make your own group fly only affect your pets? Using it as a bots MM is awesome, but I get complaints from others who do not want it on. 

[Kaballah]

seems like this would be a lot less data to track/less to expect of the playerbase than tracking every single player's rejection of it individually

[borgking001a]

Can we get an option with Null to "talk about something else," it annoys me to close the conversation and reopen it again for each thing?

[Lockpick]

Or maybe set the default to Group Fly not affecting others and let them opt in?

 

I would also suggest putting tese types of settings in setting if possible.  Why use Null the Gull at all?

Edited July 10, 2021 by Lockpick
added

[Greycat]

19 hours ago, Lockpick said:

I would also suggest putting tese types of settings in setting if possible.

 

As I've said before, that or a slash command would be *grand.* Set it up without having to leave a (potentially rapidly filling) zone, on the fly if you forget to swap it - since you *can* not want it in one situation and want it in another, after all.

[Tiger Shadow]

Putting a Gull in most co-op zones would be welcome.

[Apparition]

On 7/10/2021 at 8:29 AM, Lockpick said:

Or maybe set the default to Group Fly not affecting others and let them opt in?

 

I would also suggest putting tese types of settings in setting if possible.  Why use Null the Gull at all?

 

 

9 hours ago, Greycat said:

 

As I've said before, that or a slash command would be *grand.* Set it up without having to leave a (potentially rapidly filling) zone, on the fly if you forget to swap it - since you *can* not want it in one situation and want it in another, after all.

 

 

Certain things are done via Null the Gull because it's considered too time consuming or too difficult to implement via the options window or as a command.  It's been stated by developers elsewhere that Group Fly is considered too difficult.  It's Null the Gull or bust.

 

Honestly, I don't see the issue.  Every single character I make, I take to Pocket D and head to Null the Gull at or before level 5 to disable speed boost and group fly.  It takes two minutes.  I understand some people have hundreds of characters, but it's still doable.  I'm not about to turn off Group Fly because someone can't spend the two minutes to go to Pocket D.

[Greycat]

5 hours ago, Apparition said:

Honestly, I don't see the issue.  Every single character I make, I take to Pocket D and head to Null the Gull at or before level 5 to disable speed boost and group fly.  It takes two minutes.  I understand some people have hundreds of characters, but it's still doable.  I'm not about to turn off Group Fly because someone can't spend the two minutes to go to Pocket D.

 

1. There's no indicator of if you've done so or not. Not an issue if you have one or just a few characters. It is if you have multiples.

2. Related to (1,) it often becomes an issue when doing multi-team league zone events - MSRs on Everlasting, for instance, where if you leave the zone, you *may not get back in.*

3. Also, and to me this is where a setting or slash command would come in handy, you may not want it in some situations, and may want it in others. Say, not wanting it in an MSR, but wanting it in the Hamidon raid that comes straight after.

[Apparition]

3 minutes ago, Greycat said:

 

1. There's no indicator of if you've done so or not. Not an issue if you have one or just a few characters. It is if you have multiples.

2. Related to (1,) it often becomes an issue when doing multi-team league zone events - MSRs on Everlasting, for instance, where if you leave the zone, you *may not get back in.*

3. Also, and to me this is where a setting or slash command would come in handy, you may not want it in some situations, and may want it in others. Say, not wanting it in an MSR, but wanting it in the Hamidon raid that comes straight after.

 

 

1. Go take every single character you have to Pocket D, check if you have Group Fly disabled, and if not, disable it.  Every time you make a new character from then on in, take it to Pocket D and disable Group Fly.  Is it an annoyance?  Yes.  Is it time consuming if you have a lot of characters?  Yes.  But if you don't like Group Fly, it's what you have to do, and you only have to do it once.  I did it with about thirty characters in one sitting, and then, as I said, I do it with every new character I make.

 

2. That's not an issue if everyone does 1.  And like I said, I'm not going to disable Group Fly for people who won't take the time for 1.  I and others have done it, I see no reason why everyone else can't.  Even beyond and above that, that's just yet another strike against zone MSRs.

 

3. Why would you not want Group Fly on a MSR?  Group Fly is primarily used by Masterminds, and it's the only way to let pets reach the drop ship to help take it down.

[Greycat]

1 minute ago, Apparition said:

 

 

1. Go take every single character you have to Pocket D, check if you have Group Fly disabled, and if not, disable it.  Every time you make a new character from then on in, take it to Pocket D and disable Group Fly.  Is it an annoyance?  Yes.  Is it time consuming if you have a lot of characters?  Yes.  But if you don't like Group Fly, it's what you have to do, and you only have to do it once.  I did it with about thirty characters in one sitting, and then, as I said, I do it with every new character I make.

 

2. That's not an issue if everyone does 1.  And like I said, I'm not going to disable Group Fly for people who won't take the time for 1.  I and others have done it, I see no reason why everyone else can't.  Even beyond and above that, that's just yet another strike against zone MSRs.

 

3. Why would you not want Group Fly on a MSR?  Group Fly is primarily used by Masterminds, and it's the only way to let pets reach the drop ship to help take it down.

 

1. You do not "only have to do it once" if you're switching between content where you may want it in one instance, may not in another... as stated. This is part of the reason for "it would be nice to have it as an option or a slash command."

 

2. Read 1 and 3 again. It explains it.

 

3. There are numerous powers that *require contact with the ground* to work. And yes, I'd want those in an MSR, but not necessarily in other content.  Hitting the "group fly bubble" changes movement suddenly, from "I'm running around herding" to "well, ok, now I'm slower and floating, even once I'm past the bubble." And if you've been doing a lot of content, *as already stated,* you may think you've disabled (or enabled) it only to find out you have not. ALso, you're aware there's more to an MSR than just chasing the dropship, right? That would be why people may not want group fly on an msr.

 

Besides, with that you've given a *great* example of WHY having it as a settings option or slash command would be great. Melee without flight (I'm going to use Electric armor because of grounded as an example) may well want "no group fly" in the bowl, given it's their status protection, and to switch *right there* to enable it FOR attacking the dropship (where that mez protection isn't an issue, but vertical movement is) - and that little bit of time dropping to Pocket D and coming back, plus travel to the dropship patrol area, is enough for the dropship to be taken out. Slash command or setting? Flip, done.

 

There's also just plain "immediate cessation of people complaining about masterminds with group fly." Which I'd think would be welcome all around.

[Glacier Peak]

On 7/9/2021 at 8:56 PM, Communistpenguin said:

Can we get an option to make your own group fly only affect your pets? Using it as a bots MM is awesome, but I get complaints from others who do not want it on. 

They can turn it off at Null the Gull.

[Kaballah]

52 minutes ago, Apparition said:

 

 

1. Go take every single character you have to Pocket D, check if you have Group Fly disabled, and if not, disable it.  Every time you make a new character from then on in, take it to Pocket D and disable Group Fly.  Is it an annoyance?  Yes.  Is it time consuming if you have a lot of characters?  Yes.  But if you don't like Group Fly, it's what you have to do, and you only have to do it once.  I did it with about thirty characters in one sitting, and then, as I said, I do it with every new character I make.

 

seems like providing the option for one person to do this for their own power (the owner of group fly) is a lot less onerous than expecting every other player to do what you're describing.

[Kaballah]

36 minutes ago, Greycat said:

 

3. There are numerous powers that *require contact with the ground* to work.

 

by itself this is enormous justification for OP's suggestion.

[Lockpick]

22 hours ago, Apparition said:

 

 

1. Go take every single character you have to Pocket D, check if you have Group Fly disabled, and if not, disable it.  Every time you make a new character from then on in, take it to Pocket D and disable Group Fly.  Is it an annoyance?  Yes.  Is it time consuming if you have a lot of characters?  Yes.  But if you don't like Group Fly, it's what you have to do, and you only have to do it once.  I did it with about thirty characters in one sitting, and then, as I said, I do it with every new character I make.

 

2. That's not an issue if everyone does 1.  And like I said, I'm not going to disable Group Fly for people who won't take the time for 1.  I and others have done it, I see no reason why everyone else can't.  Even beyond and above that, that's just yet another strike against zone MSRs.

 

3. Why would you not want Group Fly on a MSR?  Group Fly is primarily used by Masterminds, and it's the only way to let pets reach the drop ship to help take it down.

 

21 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

They can turn it off at Null the Gull.

 

There is obviously an issue if this topic comes up a lot.  The solution you twi are advocating is already in game and is not seen as optimal by many players, hence the suggestion.  Not sure why you guys are opposed to a solution that would be more optimal.  It's not like the people here are saying people with Group Fly are bad, they are just suggesting alternative solutions to going to Pocket D and Null the Gull.

 

On another note, I'm sure a lot of people do not even know about Null the Gull.  I was certainly late to knowing about it and it had to be explained to me.  Now I know, but do I want to take all my characters to Null the Gull?  Nope. 

 

Why not add it to the P2W vendor?  I bet almost all new characters go to the P2W vendor, so this would be a good option.  Pick your prestige powers, XP settings, and Null options all at the same time.  Solves a lot of the problems, although as @Greycat pointed out it won't solve all the concerns.

[Sunsette]

Suggestion:

 

Kill the end cost on Sprint. Make it so having Sprint on nulls the effects of Group Fly on you. This can be turned off at Null the Gull if you really need to be able to sprint while floating.

[Lockpick]

3 minutes ago, Sunsette said:

Suggestion:

 

Kill the end cost on Sprint. Make it so having Sprint on nulls the effects of Group Fly on you. This can be turned off at Null the Gull if you really need to be able to sprint while floating.

 

Interesting, I like it!

[Glacier Peak]

3 hours ago, Lockpick said:

 

 

There is obviously an issue if this topic comes up a lot.  The solution you twi are advocating is already in game and is not seen as optimal by many players, hence the suggestion.  Not sure why you guys are opposed to a solution that would be more optimal.  It's not like the people here are saying people with Group Fly are bad, they are just suggesting alternative solutions to going to Pocket D and Null the Gull.

 

On another note, I'm sure a lot of people do not even know about Null the Gull.  I was certainly late to knowing about it and it had to be explained to me.  Now I know, but do I want to take all my characters to Null the Gull?  Nope. 

 

Why not add it to the P2W vendor?  I bet almost all new characters go to the P2W vendor, so this would be a good option.  Pick your prestige powers, XP settings, and Null options all at the same time.  Solves a lot of the problems, although as @Greycat pointed out it won't solve all the concerns.

Show me these "many players" and I'll show them all the same response. There is already a way to address these concerns, players just need to use it. Advocating for anything else is a waste of volunteer time in my opinion.

[Lockpick]

42 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

Show me these "many players" and I'll show them all the same response. There is already a way to address these concerns, players just need to use it. Advocating for anything else is a waste of volunteer time in my opinion.

 

There are several in this thread that think Null the Gull is not an optimal solution.  All of them have provided suggestions that would make the the situation more optimal. 

 

I will say that I very rarely run into the Group Fly issue.  However the few times it has happened it has been irritating.  I believe is a poor design decision to make a power affect other players against their will and then make it incumbent upon the impacted player to address the issue.

 

I get you don't think this is important enough for the HC team to fix.  However, the purpose of the suggestions forum is to make suggestions, so suggestions have been made. 

[Greycat]

3 hours ago, Sunsette said:

Suggestion:

 

Kill the end cost on Sprint. Make it so having Sprint on nulls the effects of Group Fly on you. This can be turned off at Null the Gull if you really need to be able to sprint while floating.

 

Interesting.

 

(And just Sprint specifically or are you including the Prestige Sprints?)

[Sunsette]

5 minutes ago, Greycat said:

 

Interesting.

 

(And just Sprint specifically or are you including the Prestige Sprints?)

 

I don't see a reason to treat the prestige variants differently. I think it helps solve a number of problems; in addition to dealing with the topic issue in a way that i think is kinda intuitive (I won't say super obvious), the main reason to use sprint right now past the lowest levels is Stealth IOs. This would aid land based builds, particularly melee, with combat movement. 

[ironjoe]

On 7/9/2021 at 9:56 PM, Communistpenguin said:

Can we get an option to make your own group fly only affect your pets? Using it as a bots MM is awesome, but I get complaints from others who do not want it on. 

 

I love it when playing one of my bots MM but I do turn it off most of the time in missions because of the impact on others. I keep it on when everyone is okay with it though because the bots are more likely to stay at range and shoot than when they have to run up a ramp and end up in melee shooting at a target.

 

It would be a great QoL improvement to have it more accessible in some way.

[RageusQuitus2]

18 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

how me these "many players" and I'll show them all the same response. There is already a way to address these concerns, players just need to use it. Advocating for anything else is a waste of volunteer time in my opinion.

As the power is and team tp (same problem) I dont use on teams unless special situation.  Meanwhile I have several MMs that use Team TP and Fly.  I feel sorry for the BAF I was on and my keybinds went crazy.  Was pulling chunks of the league around with me as I team TPd and rubberbanded.  Not fun for a whole lotta people imho. 

Edited July 13, 2021 by RageusQuitus2

[SwitchFade]

A Dev should take control of the Null the Gull, give him a small dagger named 'Gul' and fly about randomly changing settings on anyone he encounters.

 

Now that would be funsauce.

[FM5]

On 7/12/2021 at 3:35 PM, Lockpick said:

 

 

There is obviously an issue if this topic comes up a lot.  The solution you twi are advocating is already in game and is not seen as optimal by many players, hence the suggestion.  Not sure why you guys are opposed to a solution that would be more optimal.  It's not like the people here are saying people with Group Fly are bad, they are just suggesting alternative solutions to going to Pocket D and Null the Gull.

 

On another note, I'm sure a lot of people do not even know about Null the Gull.

 

I know Null the Gull exists and have for a long time. Until recently, I didn't know about the Group Fly changes or that it can be turned off.  An MM in my PUG started using it while I was on my character that has ground powers.  After 30 or so minutes of the MM turning it on and off, I asked it to be kept off so I could use more of my powers. Multiple other shy people in the group who had been suffering with it then spoke up and said they'd like it turned off too. 

 

No one in the group, including the MM, said it can be turned off at Null the Gull.  Maybe they didn't know it can be turned off.  I didn't know it can be turned off because until that PUG no one ever used Group Fly except when killing time for fun between missions.  I didn't know it could be turned off until happening to see the thread here while forum browsing.

 

I don't know how much dev effort it takes to reverse things so Group Fly is auto-off instead of auto-on. It's great that after 16 years Group Fly is finally a good power, but it's certainly disappointing that using it can still tick off players who may never even speak up on the issue and then they quietly rage quit from the group and no one is happy.

 

 

[Jacktar]

as a very non wise non programmer I wonder if it may be too much work to do a global change retrospectivaly using Null so that Group Fly not affecting me is the default instead of yes Group Fly affects me at this stage. 
But I wonder if it is an easier option to set it to off for all new alts as I hope that it is a simple 0 or 1 for off on default thing when creating a new alt?

Eventually by using Null on existing alts and new alts beginning with it Off we achieve some solution for the unawares.

Cheers

 

PS also plus one for a Group Fly only affects my pets option as well 👍