Please address VEAT issues (at least a balance pass)

[Rigged]

Hi Homecoming devs, please please do a balance pass at least for VEATs.

 

I will admit I am personally invested due to my main being a Crab. But the crab spider is the VEAT with the largest number of issues easily. I cannot objectively comment on issues for widows, fortunatas and banes, but allow me to list the main issues I have with my character. I would welcome other's comments on their VEATs.

 

1) The custom crab backpack has a greenish shine inherited from the non-custom one. Please give us a matte option or change the shader to be less green - not all of us want to be green. Also, this doesn't affect me since I LOVE it, but I believe lots of people want to remove the crab backpack. Also, alternate crab backpacks (from NPCs) would be appreciated, even though I would understand if this is very low priority due to difficulty in implementation (Isn't the Crab Backpack just a fancy weapon, though? I don't know how it works)

2) Omega Maneuver is incredibly weak even though it is a t9, to the point where most builds skip it. Please consider making it more useful

3) Crab attacks are almost always weaker than the equivalent Wolf spider attack due to animations. Please consider speeding up the animations because there's a lot of pausing, aiming etc.

4) Please, please let us customize the attacks. At the very least, please let us recolor the energy blasts, and Serum.

5) The AT inherent is practically nonexistent. Even Khelds have a more useful inherent.

6) Without controls or buffs, the Crab basically has no way to keep pets alive in high-end content. They die almost instantly. Having them is nice for pylon testing but their practical use is very low.

 

Please consider raising the priority on the VEATs. I understand that powerset revamps and balances are important, but VEATs are an entire AT, while powersets are largely subsets of ATs, and yet we receive very, very little attention except as part of other sweeping changes.

[Tailcoat]

It'd be great to customize the attacks and have the option to tone down the green shine.

[Super Atom]

Omega honestly needs a recharge cut and it'd probably be ok. I think the idea behind the power being a form of mitigation should prevent it from being a blaster nuke.

 

I honestly don't feel the long animation thing tbh but I'm currently playing one and I just hit 35 so tbd

 

the inherent could be a lot better, its pretty bad.

 

The pets would be over preforming if they had solid ways to stay alive group to group outside of team buffs and incarnates imo

 

Crabs aren't many big changes away from being mostly fine, they're still amazingly fun but theres just little hang ups. I think omega and the inherent are the biggest things that need addressing oh and maybe add KB protection to fort? pretty silly to get tossed around as a crab

Edited July 15, 2021 by Super Atom

[chi1701]

4 hours ago, Rigged said:

Hi Homecoming devs, please please do a balance pass at least for VEATs.

 

I will admit I am personally invested due to my main being a Crab. But the crab spider is the VEAT with the largest number of issues easily. I cannot objectively comment on issues for widows, fortunatas and banes, but allow me to list the main issues I have with my character. I would welcome other's comments on their VEATs.

 

1) The custom crab backpack has a greenish shine inherited from the non-custom one. Please give us a matte option or change the shader to be less green - not all of us want to be green. Also, this doesn't affect me since I LOVE it, but I believe lots of people want to remove the crab backpack. Also, alternate crab backpacks (from NPCs) would be appreciated, even though I would understand if this is very low priority due to difficulty in implementation (Isn't the Crab Backpack just a fancy weapon, though? I don't know how it works)

2) Omega Maneuver is incredibly weak even though it is a t9, to the point where most builds skip it. Please consider making it more useful

3) Crab attacks are almost always weaker than the equivalent Wolf spider attack due to animations. Please consider speeding up the animations because there's a lot of pausing, aiming etc.

4) Please, please let us customize the attacks. At the very least, please let us recolor the energy blasts, and Serum.

5) The AT inherent is practically nonexistent. Even Khelds have a more useful inherent.

6) Without controls or buffs, the Crab basically has no way to keep pets alive in high-end content. They die almost instantly. Having them is nice for pylon testing but their practical use is very low.

 

Please consider raising the priority on the VEATs. I understand that powerset revamps and balances are important, but VEATs are an entire AT, while powersets are largely subsets of ATs, and yet we receive very, very little attention except as part of other sweeping changes.

 

Khelds inherent isnt as usefull at endgame as you might think, khelds can cap both damage (double mires) and resistances without the need for a team and the status buff doesnt add much.

 

As for buffing veats inherent, I did make a few posts about how weak the inherent was but, obviously, like heats, currently not priority for the devs to look into. The classes that have had changes have 1 thing in common, brutes/tanks, blasters and masterminds are in the top 5 classes played. Veats and Heats are at the bottom.

[arcane]

9 hours ago, Rigged said:

Hi Homecoming devs, please please do a balance pass at least for VEATs.

 

I will admit I am personally invested due to my main being a Crab. But the crab spider is the VEAT with the largest number of issues easily. I cannot objectively comment on issues for widows, fortunatas and banes, but allow me to list the main issues I have with my character. I would welcome other's comments on their VEATs.

 

1) The custom crab backpack has a greenish shine inherited from the non-custom one. Please give us a matte option or change the shader to be less green - not all of us want to be green. Also, this doesn't affect me since I LOVE it, but I believe lots of people want to remove the crab backpack. Also, alternate crab backpacks (from NPCs) would be appreciated, even though I would understand if this is very low priority due to difficulty in implementation (Isn't the Crab Backpack just a fancy weapon, though? I don't know how it works)

2) Omega Maneuver is incredibly weak even though it is a t9, to the point where most builds skip it. Please consider making it more useful

3) Crab attacks are almost always weaker than the equivalent Wolf spider attack due to animations. Please consider speeding up the animations because there's a lot of pausing, aiming etc.

4) Please, please let us customize the attacks. At the very least, please let us recolor the energy blasts, and Serum.

5) The AT inherent is practically nonexistent. Even Khelds have a more useful inherent.

6) Without controls or buffs, the Crab basically has no way to keep pets alive in high-end content. They die almost instantly. Having them is nice for pylon testing but their practical use is very low.

 

Please consider raising the priority on the VEATs. I understand that powerset revamps and balances are important, but VEATs are an entire AT, while powersets are largely subsets of ATs, and yet we receive very, very little attention except as part of other sweeping changes.

As someone who often finds buff proposals to be ridiculously over the top, I am pleasantly surprised to be good with all of the above 🙂 Not super positive exactly how good their pets have to be RE: (6) but in general very yes.

[TotalThunder]

Crabs (and Banes) definitely need a general damage buff, and Omega Maneuver definitely needs an overhaul. It either needs to do a lot more damage, or have a third the cooldown time. Omega Maneuver's cooldown is more than twice as long as a blaster nuke, and it does half the damage.

 

A few other things about VEATS;

 

• Can we please please get No Redraw?
• Stalkers were updated, but Banes didn't get the same treatment. It would be really cool to see some kind of soft integration of Assassin's Focus (Executioner's Will? 👀) and a base crit chance. Banes don't get a re-Hide ATO proc or base crit, so you basically only get to "crit" whenever Placate is up.
• As stated by the OP, the VEAT inherent Conditioning is complete trash. Almost anything else would be a dramatic improvement. Conditioning increases your base Regen from 0.42%/s to 0.50%/s, and base Recovery from 1.67%/s to 1.90%/s. That's it.
• Banes could really use some form of sustain. Soft capping your defense to everything is really cool, until you get defense cascaded and die instantly. Maybe replace Web Cocoon with a self heal of some kind ala Reconstruction, or give Banes DDR (Defense Debuff Resistance) in their armor passive.

 

 

[Vanden]

34 minutes ago, TotalThunder said:

base Recovery from 1.67%/s to 1.90%/s

 

It’s actually 1.75% End/sec.

[Brutal Justice]

Banes should be able to fire the venom grenade from the mace like crabs can from their arms.  Also maybe a slight overall damage increase just to bring it more in line with post clobber buff warmace.  

[arcane]

39 minutes ago, Brutal Justice said:

Banes should be able to fire the venom grenade from the mace like crabs can from their arms.  Also maybe a slight overall damage increase just to bring it more in line with post clobber buff warmace.  

So their maces double as grenade pez dispensers? I like it.

[Super Atom]

Not to mention swapping from Arachnos mace to Arachnos mace if you get the mace epic

[Rigged]

14 hours ago, chi1701 said:

 

Khelds inherent isnt as usefull at endgame as you might think, khelds can cap both damage (double mires) and resistances without the need for a team and the status buff doesnt add much.

 

As for buffing veats inherent, I did make a few posts about how weak the inherent was but, obviously, like heats, currently not priority for the devs to look into. The classes that have had changes have 1 thing in common, brutes/tanks, blasters and masterminds are in the top 5 classes played. Veats and Heats are at the bottom.

 

1) Yes, and yet it is still more useful than the VEAT inherent.

 

2) VEAT and Khelds are indeed the least played ATs but individual powersets within other ATs are played less, and those powersets get tweaks all the time. Issue 27 Page 1 buffed a bunch of near-unused blaster secondaries and energy melee. 

 

At the same time, Kheldians have received consistent attention while VEATs have received next to none. Every time kheldians are affected by across-the-board changes, they are similarly buffed (flight changes) while Omega Maneuver didn't get an update with the nuke changes nor Bane Spiders/widows with the Assassin's strike changes. With the Tanker update, Tankers are starting to do similar damage to VEATs!

Edited July 16, 2021 by Rigged

[Vanden]

47 minutes ago, Rigged said:

Omega Maneuver didn't get an update with the nuke changes nor Bane Spiders/widows with the Assassin's strike changes.

 

How exactly is that an oversight? The nuke changes were to remove the end crash, which Omega Maneuver never had, and Widows and Banes don’t have Assassin’s Strike or equivalent, so why would they be changed along with AS?

[Super Atom]

1 hour ago, Vanden said:

 

How exactly is that an oversight? The nuke changes were to remove the end crash, which Omega Maneuver never had, and Widows and Banes don’t have Assassin’s Strike or equivalent, so why would they be changed along with AS?

 

Executioner strike is pretty much the same thing, it works exactly like old AS right down to using placate to proc one while in combat. As for omega, nukes got their recharge lowered while omega did not, despite having the old times roughly. The ability is bad and a recharge cut similar to blaster nukes would help with that.

 

Banes could get something similar to stalkers to improve their gameplay flow like stalkers, Executioners focus or w/e you'd want to name it.

 

Omega Maneuver has a recharge time of 6 minutes and does roughly half the damage of a defender nuke but has 2x the recharge. It doesn't need to do more damage, it just needs a much lower recharge time to fulfill it's mitigation purpose.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Super Atom

[Wavicle]

Yes to the customization. No to damage buffs or pet buffs. They already provide good buffs to their pets and if you slot the Pet IO specials they have plenty of survivability.

[Haijinx]

All epic archetypes should get 500% damage max like scrappers, blasters and stalkers

 

Not the lam-o 400% 

 

Carry on. 

[JayboH]

Animation time of Omega - are we talking about the time until it explodes?  If so that is likely intentional - I've always liked the idea of this thing to the point I wish Time Bomb could be made closer to the concept.  A taunt nuke needs time for enemies to notice aggro and actually move in close.

[Super Atom]

I don't think It's the animation time, just the recharge time.

[JayboH]

On 7/15/2021 at 3:12 AM, Super Atom said:

I honestly don't feel the long animation thing tbh

This is what I was referring to, from your own post.

[Super Atom]

8 minutes ago, JayboH said:

This is what I was referring to, from your own post.

 

That was just me replying to the OP saying the general animation time on crab spider attacks is too long, and saying i don't think they are.

[Turric]

I would vote yes to the redraw issue. Very annoying.

 

Also yes to Omega and yes to a change in the Inherent.

 

Some of the other suggestions I would be interested also potentially.

[chi1701]

On 7/16/2021 at 6:29 PM, Haijinx said:

All epic archetypes should get 500% damage max like scrappers, blasters and stalkers

 

Not the lam-o 400% 

 

Carry on. 

 

tbh, having higher max damage wont add much due to having low base damage.

[KaizenSoze]

I like to link to previous discussions.

 

 

[KaizenSoze]

On 7/16/2021 at 1:29 PM, Haijinx said:

All epic archetypes should get 500% damage max like scrappers, blasters and stalkers

 

Not the lam-o 400% 

 

Carry on. 

I think that Night Widows and Banes should get 500% damage.

 

Fortunata are already very powerful. Unless they nerf procs hard.

 

Fortunatas can keep up with and beat scrappers in certain tests.

 

Pylons times around 2:20 with certain builds.

 

[KaizenSoze]

On 7/15/2021 at 4:05 PM, Super Atom said:

Not to mention swapping from Arachnos mace to Arachnos mace if you get the mace epic

You want an extra helping on annoying.

 

Make a mace scrapper with no-redraw, yeah they get it and Banes don't. Then take the Mace Epic.

 

You do a re-draw when you use the Mace Epic, even with no-redraw War Mace set.

 

Mace Epic does not have an no-redraw option. 😞

[tidge]

No redraw is my number one wish for Soldiers/Crabs, followed by the chance to lose the backpack on (alternate, secondary) builds that don't have crab powers.

 

I agree that the inherent is really not that good. A beefed up version that improved Endurance management (Global End Discount? Uber +MaxEnd?) would be preferred.

 

Omega Maneuver really ought to have it's recharge time cut. It isn't without uses, but it is a bit of a stinker.

 

The Pets (including the Epic) don't need any changes or buffs. They are recharge-intensive pets that require re-summoning and have level shifts.  Soldiers can already beef up their survivability. They aren't henchmen or ever-lasting Controller pets.

 

There are no problems with Widows/Fortunatas... except for the similar complaint about the inherent.