farm requests

[Blackbird71]

On 9/4/2021 at 12:59 PM, Ukase said:

Usually, left on their own, these conversations fizzle out after a few comments. But, many times, these folks are not left to police themselves. Invariably, someone well-meaning will chime in: "take it to Help" or "Plz take it to General Chat". 

Sometimes, I'm a bit contrary. And I'll chime in - "But I don't like General Chat! They talk crazy there."  Obviously, I'm being silly - but if I were to really say what I want to say, I might get a touch of the ol' ban hammer. I will never understand why some players want to be the chat police. 

 

 

Some of us like to be able to actually find the information in the channels they are supposed to be in; that's the reason we keep those channels open in the first place.  Lengthy off-topic conversations in the wrong channel can make it hard to catch the messages for that TF you're trying to form, or the answer to that question you had about one of your powers.  Particularly with Help, it's good to keep it clear for the newer players to find what they need.  If Help is constantly filled with unimportant banter, that gives the impression that the channel isn't taken seriously and isn't a good source for info.

 

Bottom line, the devs gave us the General channel for a reason - channels like LFG and Help were getting bogged down with this chatter.  I'd hope that players could be considerate enough to respect that.  

[Ukase]

4 hours ago, Blackbird71 said:

Some of us like to be able to actually find the information in the channels they are supposed to be in; that's the reason we keep those channels open in the first place.  Lengthy off-topic conversations in the wrong channel can make it hard to catch the messages for that TF you're trying to form, or the answer to that question you had about one of your powers.  Particularly with Help, it's good to keep it clear for the newer players to find what they need.  If Help is constantly filled with unimportant banter, that gives the impression that the channel isn't taken seriously and isn't a good source for info.

 

Bottom line, the devs gave us the General channel for a reason - channels like LFG and Help were getting bogged down with this chatter.  I'd hope that players could be considerate enough to respect that.  

You're not wrong. But sometimes, information transitions into other dialogue. I just don't see why it's so hard to keep track of the other chatter you're interested in. But, there is a policy, and I'll try to follow it. I would just prefer other players not assume they're the chat police and let the folks who've gotten off-topic police themselves. 

[Bionic_Flea]

21 hours ago, Miss Magical said:

Fail to do that, and you're left with a 17-year old dead game, which survives only on private servers played by a diehard few, who no longer have the manpower to fix this kind of systemic problem

Sign me up!

 

I have no problem with anyone who wants to start a farm channel, or base-builder channel, role play channel or any other channel.

 

But I do have a problem with players telling other players that they have to have their conversations in this channel or that channel.  Unless the words themselves are against the code of conduct (i.e. harassment, excessive vulgarity, etc.) let people say their piece.

[Blackbird71]

9 hours ago, Ukase said:

You're not wrong. But sometimes, information transitions into other dialogue. I just don't see why it's so hard to keep track of the other chatter you're interested in. 

 

Because if you're actively involved in stuff, there is a lot going on, and a lot of scroll to keep track of.

 

8 hours ago, Bionic_Flea said:

But I do have a problem with players telling other players that they have to have their conversations in this channel or that channel.  Unless the words themselves are against the code of conduct (i.e. harassment, excessive vulgarity, etc.) let people say their piece.

 

Consider players saying these things a friendly suggestion to keep the conversations where the GMs and moderators have said they are supposed to be.  Because the mods have and will come in and say the same thing, but we should be mature enough to regulate ourselves and not have to bother them and take up their valuable time with something so petty as being unwilling to follow the simple direction to stay on topic in the appropriate channel and keep conversations clear for others to find what they're looking for.

[Ukase]

2 hours ago, Blackbird71 said:

 

Because if you're actively involved in stuff, there is a lot going on, and a lot of scroll to keep track of.

 

 

Consider players saying these things a friendly suggestion to keep the conversations where the GMs and moderators have said they are supposed to be.  Because the mods have and will come in and say the same thing, but we should be mature enough to regulate ourselves and not have to bother them and take up their valuable time with something so petty as being unwilling to follow the simple direction to stay on topic in the appropriate channel and keep conversations clear for others to find what they're looking for.

So, I wrote about 8 paragraphs explaining that I see your point, but then realized it would come across the wrong way, and wouldn't adequately explain why I don't appreciate another player's "friendly suggestions". 

It's all about relationship. A very wise man told me, "Rules, without relationship, reap rebellion." 
It should stand on it's own, but to break it down, it means that the player base has a relationship of sorts with any and all game GMs. Because the game wouldn't be here without the HC devs, and the HC devs have appointed these GMs (or in some cases are the GMs) we respect their authority. 

If Bionic Flea were to tell me I was off-topic, I might listen to him because I know him from within the game, and he's a good chap. I have a relationship of sort with him. I respect him. Even though all of his characters are super tiny and make my dog itch. 

But if a player I don't know is trying to suggest I do anything in game - even if they're 100% right, I'm going to be defensive and rebel. Why? (In addition to the odds that I'm immature - I'm playing a game meant for children, after all, just like everyone else.) Because I don't know them. I don't respect them. Why should I heed their suggestion? 

If I were to drive through your neighborhood and tell you that you brought your trash can to the curb too soon, take it back to your garage and bring it out in the morning - even though you know those are the HOA's rules, my best guess is you're going to look at me like I'm crazy, say, "Sorry, but I ain't waking up at 5am to take the trash out." 
But, it's a different answer if it's your spouse, or the HOA rep. Gotta have those relationships to make those suggestions. 

But that's just my opinion and where I'm coming from. I don't expect anyone to change on account of me. Odds are, I'm the one that will have to change. 
Oh - as for General chat - you don't know, but I hate it. On new characters where I've forgotten to disable it, I always see things that irritate me. Nothing volatile, but the conversations there are just annoying to me. They just put me in a foul mood, so I disable it when I remember. That's why when someone says, "Take it to General", I refuse. 

[Bionic_Flea]

3 hours ago, Blackbird71 said:

Consider players saying these things a friendly suggestion to keep the conversations where the GMs and moderators have said they are supposed to be.  Because the mods have and will come in and say the same thing, but we should be mature enough to regulate ourselves and not have to bother them and take up their valuable time with something so petty as being unwilling to follow the simple direction to stay on topic in the appropriate channel and keep conversations clear for others to find what they're looking for.

Also consider that telling someone to move off of LFG is not a "looking for group" conversation, nor is telling someone to move off help either a request for help or a response to a request.  The chat policing is just as off topic as anything else.  So consider this a friendly suggestion to let people blow off a bit of steam or be a little silly from time to time and not be so immature to allow such minor things to annoy or require a response.

[A Cat]

29 minutes ago, Ukase said:

(In addition to the odds that I'm immature - I'm playing a game meant for children, after all, just like everyone else.) 

Whoa bro, it clearly says T for "teen". 

[ZacKing]

On 9/4/2021 at 8:02 PM, Krimson said:

The thing is, the problem is not players who are using LFG to look for a farm. As has been established, they are doing nothing wrong. So why should THEY be the ones who get segregated, when they are not the ones with the problem?

 

I will go so far as to say that farmers, hitters, and sitters using LFG to look for a group are not the problem. Not even a little bit. You will certainly see them in LFG, but you are not going to see one rant in General for 15 minutes because they don't like someone else's playstyle. I have yet to see a single farmer, hitter, or sitter start a thread here in the forums because they don't like someone else's playstyle. 

 

The ones with the problem are the ones who think that using LFG to look for a farm is some sort of badwrongfun. It is not. The farmers, hitters, and sitters have the same right to play this game as everyone else with a different playstyle. If a player doesn't like it, that is THEIR problem, and projecting it onto farmers, hitters, and sitters is a load of horse apples. 

 

This is a user end problem with a user end solution. I really don't think that the developers should be tasked with finding a solution for a problem that only exists on one end. 

 

Totally agreed!  The same people here who fancy themselves as tolerant and super woke are among the most ignorant and intolerant people there are in my opinion.  Not saying the OP is, just an observation in general.

Edited September 7, 2021 by ZacKing

[Sovera]

The annoying thing about the farming (to me) is the begging. Someone doing 'I'm going to farm and welcome people' is fine. But the spam of 'is anyone fawming? Could ah seet by the doow while you fawm?' does rub me wrong. 'Can someone play the game for me? Can I just AFK and be rewarded?' This is as close as we get to the mythical 'what if players just got a button to press that would make them level 50 fully incarnated and with a billion inf'.

 

Yikes. At least level a farmer and farm yourself without begging for a spot to doorsit while someone does the work. But that would defeat the purpose. That would be work. They don't want work. They want their dole.

[ZacKing]

3 minutes ago, Sovera said:

The annoying thing about the farming (to me) is the begging. Someone doing 'I'm going to farm and welcome people' is fine. But the spam of 'is anyone fawming? Could ah seet by the doow while you fawm?' does rub me wrong. 'Can someone play the game for me? Can I just AFK and be rewarded?' This is as close as we get to the mythical 'what if players just got a button to press that would make them level 50 fully incarnated and with a billion inf'.

 

Yikes. At least level a farmer and farm yourself without begging for a spot to doorsit while someone does the work. But that would defeat the purpose. That would be work. They don't want work. They want their dole.

 

How do you know the people asking for farms aren't vets looking for some levels on an alt?  you're assuming they're new players fresh to the game.  

[tidge]

I've occasionally eye-rolled when I've seen a single player spamming a request to join any farm (or door-sit), but I've never felt that such requests needed to be segregated to another channel.

[Blackbird71]

51 minutes ago, Ukase said:

But if a player I don't know is trying to suggest I do anything in game - even if they're 100% right, I'm going to be defensive and rebel. Why? (In addition to the odds that I'm immature - I'm playing a game meant for children, after all, just like everyone else.) Because I don't know them. I don't respect them. Why should I heed their suggestion? 

 

Because it's the established rules, and following them shows a respect for both your fellow players and the rules the devs have established. 

 

You say you're annoyed by people asking a conversation to be moved to a channel that has been established specifically for that conversation topic, and out of a channel where it doesn't belong.  Well, consider how annoyed others may be because you're carrying on an off-topic conversation while they're trying to use the channel for its intended purpose.  Of the two annoyed parties in this case, I'm pretty sure the latter ones are in the right.  So swallow your pride, have some consideration and respect for others, and follow the channel rules please.

[Tanker_Toy]

Overall I can't complain too much. I remember how it used to be in Peregrine Island on Justice back in the early days. I had a few characters that used to PL a lot and I'd get hit with a barrage of texts upon logging in. Many demanding, being entitled, and pushing until I had to put them on ignore. That was utterly worse than what is happening now.

 

That said, I can see why it annoys people if it gets out of hand on LFG. It's not usually the case, at least not when I'm on but I've seen it fill the dialogue box up.

 

The only way that creating a new channel would help is if there were really any incentive to use it over LFG. As it stands, there really isn't. Many people just wouldn't look for the channel, know about the channel, or even read their own chat in some cases.

 

A good suggestion is to level your own farming toon and two box it. That's what I've done. I made myself a self contained system that once in awhile has a friend come along. It's not as fast as a group farm, nor as lucrative, but I am pretty happy with it.  And at this point it doesn't strain the servers as the overpopulation issue seems to have subsided. If I ever see three red dots I don't do it. That generally is a good thing as I know lots of people are playing and there is lots to do otherwise.

[Ukase]

1 hour ago, A Cat said:

Whoa bro, it clearly says T for "teen". 

Ha! At my age, anyone under 30 is a kid! 

[Blackbird71]

2 minutes ago, Ukase said:

As I stated, you're not wrong. But I don't take suggestions from people I don't know or respect. So, have some respect and consideration for others and don't tell them what to do and what not to do. 

 

While you're actively disrespecting those same people by cluttering up the channels they are trying to use with stuff that the devs have said doesn't belong in those channels anyway???

[Ukase]

Sorry -  I just realized how insane my post was and just hid it. It's not worth the mental energy to bicker back and forth. 

[Dazl]

4 hours ago, ZacKing said:

 

How do you know the people asking for farms aren't vets looking for some levels on an alt?  you're assuming they're new players fresh to the game.  

If you are a vet you shouldn’t be looking for a farmer to level your alt, you should be looking for someone to help you level your own farmer. I can understand new players or newly returning vets wanting help getting that first 50. If your a vet with multiple 50’s and your looking for farms to level your next 50, then your just being lazy.

[JasperStone]

I have not had this problem on Indom .... though LFG yesterday got caught up in a conversation to which someone asked if they could move it to General.

Done.

No complaints.

 

I do use a lot ot tabs to put each chat into its own area. It keeps the endless scrolling. Help has its own and so does General. ...etc

[Erratic1]

1 hour ago, Dazl said:

If you are a vet you shouldn’t be looking for a farmer to level your alt, you should be looking for someone to help you level your own farmer. I can understand new players or newly returning vets wanting help getting that first 50. If your a vet with multiple 50’s and your looking for farms to level your next 50, then your just being lazy.

 

Is it lazy to join a high level team and be carried in +4/8 missions?

 

 Two days ago I was planning to run a patron power unlock run and while perfectly content to solo figured I would see if anyone else wanted to come along because because I was in the mood for some non-solo time. Got a level 50 who exemplared down to my level and a level 8 who obviously could not unlock the patron powers at that level but could get levels by tagging along. 

 

Why was it lazy for someone to join a farm but not lazy to join in content which your character could not access?

 

Or is lazy applied to anyone who does not play, "level appropriate" content all the way up?

[Dazl]

1 hour ago, Erratic1 said:

 

Is it lazy to join a high level team and be carried in +4/8 missions?

 

Yes if you are just sitting at the door afk on a +4/8 mission.

 

1 hour ago, Erratic1 said:

 

Why was it lazy for someone to join a farm but not lazy to join in content which your character could not access?

 

Sounds like someone was smart enough to know they would need it and if they helped with the mission good for them.

 

1 hour ago, Erratic1 said:

 

Or is lazy applied to anyone who does not play, "level appropriate" content all the way up?

Not at all. If you want to do normal leveling or power leveling that’s up to the individual player. However what I’m saying is if you are going to go down the PL path for all your alts you should create a farmer of your own. Leeching off of other peoples good graces is being lazy.

[Erratic1]

Just now, Dazl said:

Yes if you are just sitting at the door afk on a +4/8 mission.

 

For all the difference an unslotted, level 8 is likely making in the mission I am not sure that anyone is likely to care but not the point of debate really. So the 50 veteran above is only lazy if they sit at the door?

 

Just now, Dazl said:

 

Sounds like someone was smart enough to know they would need it and if they helped with the mission good for them.

 

They were too low level to get the unlock. They were solely involved for the levels they would gain.

 

Just now, Dazl said:

 

Not at all. If you want to do normal leveling or power leveling that’s up to the individual player. However what I’m saying is if you are going to go down the PL path for all your alts you should create a farmer of your own. Leeching off of other peoples good graces is being lazy.

 

What is a farmer going to do for the person trying to level unless they have two accounts?

[skoryy]

As they say out in the sticks, "A hit dog uses a lot of question marks."

[Riverdusk]

1 hour ago, Erratic1 said:

 

 

 

 

They were too low level to get the unlock. They were solely involved for the levels they would gain.

 

 

 

 

By tagging along you can get the badge for doing it and unlock them before you are high enough to pick the powers.  Not sure if there is a bare minimum level, but you can definitely do it early, then have it ready to go for you when you hit 35, which is very nice.

[Miss Magical]

On 9/6/2021 at 6:24 PM, Neiska said:

My thoughts for what they are worth.

 

1.) I have seen some people say farming is bad. My honest reply is, why is it bad?

I don't think farming, in the sense of repetitive grinding, is bad; there are certainly players attracted to that style of gameplay (and it was a hallmark of the old school of classic MMO games).

 

I think objections arise from the fact that farmers demand special privilege: they want their content to give vastly more rewards than everyone else's for no reason (and while afk, no less). From experience, it takes me around 20 to 25 hours to level from 1-50. A good AE farm will get you there in 2h. In other words, farm rewards are on the order of 1,000% those of non-farm content. Imagine if I created a Decuple Exp Boost P2W power that gave +1,000% exp, and arbitrarily limited it to only players who PvP or roleplay, etc. and you'll see why farming provokes objections.

 

I don't think farmers (the players) nor farming (the playstyle and associated missions) deserve any more - or less - rewards than normal (I've seen some suggestions to remove AE rewards entirely, which isn't an improvement either). If AE farm rewards were balanced to be approximately the same as you could get from other sources of content, I doubt anyone would complain about farming again; it would be a win-win situation for everyone. But I doubt the developers have the manpower to implement the kinds of systems needed to effect this kind of change, especially since - as I mentioned previously - merely balancing AE farm rewards alone won't solve the problem without some comprehensive review of the game's reward systems.

[Neiska]

25 minutes ago, Miss Magical said:

I don't think farming, in the sense of repetitive grinding, is bad; there are certainly players attracted to that style of gameplay (and it was a hallmark of the old school of classic MMO games).

 

I think objections arise from the fact that farmers demand special privilege: they want their content to give vastly more rewards than everyone else's for no reason (and while afk, no less). From experience, it takes me around 20 to 25 hours to level from 1-50. A good AE farm will get you there in 2h. In other words, farm rewards are on the order of 1,000% those of non-farm content. Imagine if I created a Decuple Exp Boost P2W power that gave +1,000% exp, and arbitrarily limited it to only players who PvP or roleplay, etc. and you'll see why farming provokes objections.

 

I don't think farmers (the players) nor farming (the playstyle and associated missions) deserve any more - or less - rewards than normal (I've seen some suggestions to remove AE rewards entirely, which isn't an improvement either). If AE farm rewards were balanced to be approximately the same as you could get from other sources of content, I doubt anyone would complain about farming again; it would be a win-win situation for everyone. But I doubt the developers have the manpower to implement the kinds of systems needed to effect this kind of change, especially since - as I mentioned previously - merely balancing AE farm rewards alone won't solve the problem without some comprehensive review of the game's reward systems.

 

 

Personally, I wouldn't object to Open world and AE being balanced. But this is not the first time I have heard of AE getting higher rewards than other activities. Is there a source for this? I am genuinely curious as to the details. If its a kill speed/travel speed thing, or if Mob A vs Mob B of exact same level/rank drop different values. There is also things such as party size too. So there are lots of variables.

 

So is there actually any Wiki/HC post  or source that says that, or is it just people guessing? Asking respectfully, not being snarky.