Anyone else notice a slowly increasing number of people joining groups just to solo?

[Seigmoraig]

What really grinds my gears is when you start a taskforce when below level 50. Taskforce is not advertised as being a rush or fast or whatever and somebody rushes to the end anyways without asking anyone's opinion and either just finishes it to group teleports the team there. 
A few weeks ago this happened on the last mission of ITF, not everybody was even in the door yet and the cut scene was already playing and he ATT'd us to the final boss without asking. I'm not even ashamed to say that we (RL friend who had lead to make the mission level 50) immediately kicked him out of the team and asked everyone left to fly back to the start so we could do the mission normally. 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Seigmoraig

[Nemu]

The level 44 TF I've joined are level 44 +4/8 enemies buffed no insp no temp.

 

 

All blaster ITFs under that setting is fun, even more fun without any hover blasters or bonfire.

 

[arcane]

1 minute ago, ZemX said:

 

Non-attuned builds are a thing for people who never do anything but level 50 content.  But  yeah, most people would have an attuned build for exemplaring.   I suppose if you were an incorrigible min/maxer (and rich) you might make a build explicitly for L44 challenges where all the IOs  topped out at 47+5.

Yeah I build for 50+5 and only attune enhancements that hurt my proc rates. Don’t exemp often enough for it to be a problem.

[nihilii]

On 9/26/2021 at 5:36 PM, Bill Z Bubba said:

if they realize there's no greater reward for the extra difficulty

 

This is key, IMHO.

If I were in the devs' shoes, I would make the rewards better somehow. There's a balance point to be found, where rewards increase by X while difficulty increases by a multiple of X. This way you don't penalize players who can't hack it in the harder content, running old content at old difficulties would still be optimal. But at the same time you give a carrot and ensuing satisfaction with running harder contents.

 

But if that is not an option either... I'd tie badges to the hard content. As in, a truckload of badges. Think hundreds of them rather than dozens, for every silly little action you take in that new hard difficult content. No imbalance to the game economy/progression, but something to acknowledge the effort.

[Dazl]

Maybe one way to make teaming more important for +4/8 missions would be to limit the team size to 4 or 5 people.

[MHertz]

4 hours ago, Grouchybeast said:

 

It's a question of overkill. ... And in a range-heavy team, it can be difficult for a melee character to reach the next mob before the hail of AOEs has wiped it out.  If a melee character who can safely engage at +4x8 only rarely gets to land an attack ...

I can see how this argument makes sense. The extra damage is wasted. This applies even solo — the bad guy has a sliver of health remaining, but you've got to waste an entire fully-slotted attack to dispatch him.

 

However, in any realistic world, you can't whittle down the team to the bare minimum of DPS producers and expect the same results as you get with a full team of diverse ATs. You can do 200% of the damage needed to destroy a spawn and still not kill the whole spawn. That's because success isn't entirely about attacks, it's about soaking up aggro and centralizing the enemies for AOE attacks. It's also about finding the stragglers and mopping up efficiently. It's about watching your teammates' back and having more eyes on the prize. As I said in my post, I recently played on a task force where the melee artists and DPS hoses had moved on to a spawn down the hallway, leaving a Controller to face a +4 boss alone. I only had a FF Defender, so I used Force Bolt to keep the boss knocked down, but the Controller and I couldn't do anything to take it out. We had to call for the team to return and do its job. I guarantee you we had already done more than 100% of damage needed for the spawn, as a whole.

[tidge]

49 minutes ago, ZemX said:

 

Non-attuned builds are a thing for people who never do anything but level 50 content.  But  yeah, most people would have an attuned build for exemplaring.   I suppose if you were an incorrigible min/maxer (and rich) you might make a build explicitly for L44 challenges where all the IOs  topped out at 47+5.

 

[MHertz]

3 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

 

Because of [not landing attacks] my contribution is much lower than it could be.

Isn't a melee player much more than a damage hose?

 

Yes, in theory, if the remaining team members are steamrolling the content without any difficulty, there should be no problem in letting one particularly well-built Scrapper run off and do his own thing. In that situation, I got no problems. I've been on TFs with no meatshield at all, and nobody's in any trouble because the DPS and control are through the roof. I've also been on teams where I'd have traded my left arm for just one competent Tanker.

 

I get how it can feel like there's nothing to target — and I get that feeling on a Blaster. By the time the animation cycles, the target is already well dead. I understand that. Still , looking at the problem purely as one of wasted DPS is to diminish melee's entire role to that of a one-dimensional squishy Blaster, and it's not.

[Wobegone]

19 minutes ago, MHertz said:

I can see how this argument makes sense. (...but....)

The most vehement voices in this thread don't even acknowledge this much.  A couple even explicitly stated that if they have to suffer swinging at corpses, you do to.  If I were to do they same as they and assign motivations and feelings, I'd say they were envious that my Scrapper took a different tunnel and didn't die.  And if the team didn't suffer in any way and they still want me to be with the team even as a cheerleader then I'd say they're egomaniacs.  

 

People are complicated.  There are certainly some who want to show off.  Others are oblivious and perhaps don't pay attention to where the team is going-I like going left when leading the team or soloing for example.  Still others would rather actually be fighting because they love the action while still being a part of a team setting with team banter with a team goal in mind(usually finishing a Task Force).

Edited September 27, 2021 by Ignatz the Insane

[Erratic1]

2 minutes ago, MHertz said:

Isn't a melee player much more than a damage hose?

 

Yes, in theory, if the remaining team members are steamrolling the content without any difficulty, there should be no problem in letting one particularly well-built Scrapper run off and do his own thing. In that situation, I got no problems. I've been on TFs with no meatshield at all, and nobody's in any trouble because the DPS and control are through the roof. I've also been on teams where I'd have traded my left arm for just one competent Tanker.

 

I get how it can feel like there's nothing to target — and I get that feeling on a Blaster. By the time the animation cycles, the target is already well dead. I understand that. Still , looking at the problem purely as one of wasted DPS is to diminish melee's entire role to that of a one-dimensional squishy Blaster, and it's not.

 

Are you hinting at being a damage sponge aka alpha-absorber?

 

Assuming  the blaster has not just run up and made the entire spawn instantly die...

 

Assuming the controller has not just  locked everything in place (most of the time before any of it could be gathered up such that punchvoke or gauntlet would have much meaning)...

 

Assuming defense values have not been pushed through the roof...

 

In said case, sure...I guess I could be the incoming damage sink. On the other hand at the point I have moved forward the group is past needing that and by moving forward and engaging the next group I have in fact taken the alpha...just before anyone else has shown up.

[MHertz]

3 minutes ago, Ignatz the Insane said:

The most vehement voices in this thread don't even acknowledge this much.  A few even explicitly stated that if they have to suffer swinging at corpses, you do to.  If I were to do they same as they and assign motivations and feelings, I'd say...

If they can't acknowledge the reality of combat mechanics and team efficiency, that's just foolish. Still, it's not particularly helpful to tell people what their feelings are. Contrary to some of the squabbling that's been going on, feelings do matter. We play this game because, well, it's supposed to be fun (for a certain personal definition of "fun"). If we didn't like it we wouldn't be here, so we have to figure out what it is that makes us feel good and why.

 

Part of the problem is inherent AT imbalance. This leads to support types wanting to team in order to play that role. The player might get anxious if the meatshield is off doing his own thing, not paying attention to the team's catastrophe curve. And it could lead to the solo-ready ATs wanting to go off on their own, because they don't really need that much support. At heart, both of the players want to be useful. Both players want to feel like they're making a solid difference. Unfortunately, the ATs were built with opposite tactics in mind for achieving this.

[Glacier Peak]

18 minutes ago, tidge said:

 

Haha the beer not spilling was the funniest part

[MHertz]

4 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

Are you hinting at being a damage sponge aka alpha-absorber?

That is certainly one strategy when you have a player that can absorb the alpha strike. When there is one. 🙂 It isn't the only such strategy. And if, as you say, the team is able to steamroll the content without the need of someone to fulfill that role, then that Scrapper or Brute or whatever doesn't have much purpose on the team. They may as well go off on their own, if the team is otherwise not in need of that function. I have no problem with that. I'm still not sure why a Scrapper would want to join a team where a) they don't feel useful and b) they can solo the same content, if more slowly.

[Erratic1]

Just now, MHertz said:

That is certainly one strategy when you have a player that can absorb the alpha strike. When there is one. 🙂 It isn't the only such strategy. And if, as you say, the team is able to steamroll the content without the need of someone to fulfill that role, then that Scrapper or Brute or whatever doesn't have much purpose on the team. They may as well go off on their own, if the team is otherwise not in need of that function. I have no problem with that. I'm still not sure why a Scrapper would want to join a team where a) they don't feel useful and b) they can solo the same content, if more slowly.

 

Alas, I lack the ability to know before the team has formed what ATs are going to be on it and what level of power they will have.

 

Or is that a feature that got added at some point I am unaware of?

[MHertz]

2 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

Alas, I lack the ability to know before the team has formed what ATs are going to be on it and what level of power they will have.

This is true, but a player who is experienced enough and wealthy enough to create a build capable of soloing an eight-man team's worth of enemies probably has a pretty good idea at what level grouping becomes unpleasantly futile. Don't tell me you haven't checked the powersets of a team going into a TF and said, "This is gonna be bad."

[Erratic1]

2 minutes ago, MHertz said:

This is true, but a player who is experienced enough and wealthy enough to create a build capable of soloing an eight-man team's worth of enemies probably has a pretty good idea at what level grouping becomes unpleasantly futile. Don't tell me you haven't checked the powersets of a team going into a TF and said, "This is gonna be bad."

 

(1) Given people exemplar its possible all the way down to at least the Penny Yin TF as weekend before last my newest scrapper was run through one by a person exemplaring down who was fully capable of handling everything themselves. They only needed me to join so they could kick the TF off.

 

(2) Powersets aren't generally the thing that push things to the point where advancing from the team becomes preferable. The ability to melt foes does.

 

(3) I do not find it bad to be on such teams as I have my solution: Move ahead.

[skoryy]

I didn't think we'd be discussing "Is Scrapperlock Bad" in the year 2021, but here we are.

[Industrious1]

Every team I join I look at differently.

 

Some are mad dashes to the end and others are kill everything in sight.  I don't have a problem with either and if the star wants to "wait until everyone enters" that's what I do.  Not a big issue.  If I want to do something a certain way I just start my own team and let everyone know the parameters before we start.  Mostly though I don't care because at 50 judgements render most 8 person content trivial anyways.

 

 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Industrious1

[ZemX]

26 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

Assuming  the blaster has not just run up and made the entire spawn instantly die...

 

That's not an assumption.  That's an impossibility.  At least if we are talking about +4x8 missions.  And if we're not.. then that's the problem.  Outside of low level teams or speed-runs, people are playing at the higher settings, if not maxed out.  And the math, particularly due to the purple patch, does not allow a single blaster, or even several, to nuke every spawn in one-shot such that a melee never gets to lay a finger on it.

 

This sort of thing only happens on the forums.

[Erratic1]

6 minutes ago, ZemX said:

 

That's not an assumption.  That's an impossibility.  At least if we are talking about +4x8 missions.  And if we're not.. then that's the problem.  Outside of low level teams or speed-runs, people are playing at the higher settings, if not maxed out.  And the math, particularly due to the purple patch, does not allow a single blaster, or even several, to nuke every spawn in one-shot such that a melee never gets to lay a finger on it.

 

This sort of thing only happens on the forums.

 

I made no mention of +4x8. 

 

As for it being a problem, like I said, I have a solution. I simply move on.

 

As for it not being able to happen on every spawn, that is true...

 

 

...for a single blaster. But a team can have multiple people on them and more than one can be a blaster.

 

So no, it is not something which only happens on the forums.

 

Edit: And of course there are also the Incarnate abilities which effectively can serve the same purpose, so not just reliant on blasters.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Erratic1

[Wobegone]

41 minutes ago, MHertz said:

I'm still not sure why a Scrapper would want to join a team where a) they don't feel useful and b) they can solo the same content, if more slowly.

I have no idea going in whether I'll be useful or not.  Also:

1 hour ago, Ignatz the Insane said:

Still others would rather actually be fighting because they love the action while still being a part of a team setting with team banter with a team goal in mind(usually finishing a Task Force).

 

[Ukase]

On 9/26/2021 at 7:54 AM, UltraAlt said:

Teaming is for teaming.

We are all at least a little bit different with different motivations. Only two things will lead you to disappointment in life. ONLY TWO! 

Unrealistic expectations 
Unrealized expectations 

In this case, your expectations were realistic. They just weren't realized. If you state what you expect and are then disappointed, shame on them. If you do not state your expectations and are disappointed, shame on you. 

 

[ZemX]

3 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

I made no mention of +4x8. 

 

It can't happen at +0 either.  Unless you're going to move to talking about teams small enough not to spawn bosses next.

 

4 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

As for it not being able to happen on every spawn, that is true...

 

 

...for a single blaster. But a team can have multiple people on them and more than one can be a blaster.

 

So no, it is not something which only happens on the forums.

 

Feel free to work that out.  Boss hit points are rather impressive.  It would take multiple blaster nukes to AoE them in a single shot and then they wouldn't be available again for a minimum of 30 seconds.  Seven blasters and one hapless melee could MAYBE keep that rolling on a +0 or -1 team.  But that's about it.  

 

And like I said, if you're not running at the higher settings you're probably doing a speed run anyway which is beside the point of this thread which is about NOT running away on your own.  

 

On any realistic team, there is plenty of time for melee damage dealers to contribute even without running too far ahead or striking out solo.

[ZekeStenzland]

1 minute ago, Ukase said:

If you state what you expect and are then disappointed, shame on them. If you do not state your expectations and are disappointed, shame on you. 

But if you really loved me, I wouldn’t have to tell you what I want, you’d just know! 😉

[Wobegone]

55 minutes ago, MHertz said:

 that's just foolish. Still, it's not particularly helpful to tell people what their feelings are. Contrary to some of the squabbling that's been going on, feelings do matter. We play this game because, well, it's supposed to be fun (for a certain personal definition of "fun"). If we didn't like it we wouldn't be here, so we have to figure out what it is that makes us feel good and why.

I generally agree with you.  Mostly I was showing frustration with folks assigning motivations and/or feelings for me....kinda like this:

17 hours ago, MHertz said:

What I don't really understand is why it's necessary to be on a team for that. It seems to me that teaming, only to go rogue, is trying to have the best of both worlds for the solo artist. Cake, and also eating said cake. Other people are earning you quick XP and frequent drops by steamrolling, while you feel important and cool and essential all by yourself, doing your thing, even though you're slogging along more slowly than the group would as a whole. (If you think Solo can defeat a group faster than Solo + Teammates, you're going to have to show me how that works, because it would mean Teammates have a negative net effectiveness. They would have to be making the enemies stronger.)