Anyone else notice a slowly increasing number of people joining groups just to solo?

[Bob_Loblaw]

I've noticed this trend, and it seems to be happening more and more over the past year or so; when I join a group there is almost always one, sometimes two, people that just run off on their own to solo. Not just going the wrong way down a tunnel and getting split from the group, but, rather purposely going off on their own. Why join a group just to solo? All it does is weaken the main group and slow progress. Is it a "look at what I can do?" (i.e. Stuart from MadTV), thinking that everyone else in the group will be impressed? I am genuinely stumped as to why. *SMH* Why not go solo the same content on your own? It's easy, click the little word bubble in the bottom right corner of the chat window, go to Set Notoriety, then Team Size, and click on 8. Boom! Now go solo whatever you want. Then the group that wants to stick together and play as a team can get someone who wants to participate.

Edited September 25, 2021 by Bob_Loblaw

[SuperPlyx]

Yes, I had this problem twice in one night doing Dark Astoria arcs. The first one the player ran all the way to end, completed the objective solo and finished the mission. Of course as soon as "mission complete" popped up on screen the team started exiting.  I spoke to the player in tell saying I thought it was rude to complete someone else mission without discussing it with leader first. They immediately quit team .

 2 missions later, another team mate stealth's to end and completes it. This time I did not go to tells and just voiced my frustration in team chat. I do regret that, I should have went to tells. But the person in question believed based on the previous teammate finishing mission early that it was ok.

 

Now I do stealth to end on some missions and/or complete the objective without doing a kill -all. But never someone else's team/mission. As an example I have run stealth Maria Jenkins team, but it is discussed when starting the team we will just be doing AVs and objectives. 

 

Please people make sure what the goal of the team leader is. Do not assume, know. No one cares if you can solo the end guy, trust me when I say I can solo the end guy too.

If that's what I wanted to do I would not have invited a whole team.

[QuiJon]

I feel like the issue cuts both ways. I have been on teams, even on task forces, where we get a kill all mission. I know I can solo so in a big cave maps with branching directions if the main group seems to not be struggling I will go down the other path. Everything has to die anyway right. 

 

And I get some team leader complain. But what they really want is an audience. And if my fire tank can go off soloing because he wants to foot stomp his way through maps on his kheldian what he seems to be most upset at is that he doesnt feel as important if he isnt the top performer on the team.

[Dona Eis Requiem]

IMO, it's things like that that are chasing away new/recently returned players.

The worse the elitism/snubbing gets, the smaller shard populations get. 

Kinda disappointed in a lot of the attitudes now pervasive in this once very inclusive, fun loving game community.

 

[Ukase]

I think what we have is two sets of folks seeing things in a different way. As to the "why" someone who can solo so easily would team up and run off on their own...well, let me share some perspective.

 

Often, I see something in LFG for a given TF or even just routine missions where there is no "Kill Most" or any other direction specified. You join in - and the mission is set...and still, no direction is given as to how things will be done. 

So, it seems reasonable to me to be helpful and go left the first chance you get, even if the team goes right. It's not like the team needs you there, right? If they needed you, seems like they would have stated such, or have simply followed you. But they didn't - so, stands to reason they're fine on their own. 

Further why would it matter whose mission it is? I mean, if you wanted to clobber each and every npc as a team, where each player does their part, I don't see how one player or two going off to do that same part is any different than if they stuck with the team and let their AOEs be over-kill on a team filled with incarnate judgement capable players. They are in fact, helping the team finish the same content faster, allowing you to do more in less time. I'd call that a win. 

I understand that some folks like a slower pace type of teaming, where some tank-ish character enters the fray, while buffers buff, debuffers debuff, and dps folks dish out damage. The thing is - that's fine, but that's YOUR way of playing, and it's not the only tool in our tool box. Almost all of us can do that - and have done that since issue 1. But since Issue 9 came about, and certainly when fine sets with bonuses like Superior Avalanche came to the game, a lot of players invested a lot of time and learning to become very "super". 

How often do you see Thor, or Captain America slugging it out when there's an array of bad guys to dispatch? Sure, they're on the same battlefield, often! But - that doesn't mean they're all fighting the same bad guy. Even in game, a tank & scrapper may be hammering down on a boss, while a blaster is chasing down a lieutenant that's trying to clobber a corruptor or controller, or another squishy type. Same battlefield, but different battle. So, a wall or a floor is separating you from a teammate? Why is this a big deal? You still get your souvenirs and clues. (as if anyone ever has looked for those during the mission to see if they got them - I've gotten packrat - a souvenir badge for 100 souvenirs several times. The first time I got it - I had no idea there were even souvenirs in the game, let alone a badge for them!) 

Now - if you made your wishes clear at the beginning that it was to be a team-effort and that every one should stick together - I suspect your recruiting would take maybe a couple minutes longer, but you'd be happier. I'm not saying the other guy was right - I'm just saying they're not wrong if they weren't told in the beginning what it is you had planned. 

[SuperPlyx]

3 minutes ago, Ukase said:

Further why would it matter whose mission it is?

IMO this comes into play when the player completes the mission, as I stated earlier. 

 

In the instance I was referring to we where doing DA arcs, I run these a lot. I would say almost half the time I run these there is someone on the team who has not done them.

By this guy running to the end and soloing the boss and completing mission, the player on the team that has never run that mission just got robbed of an experience.

 

And that is why I think it matters whose mission it is, running off killing things is one thing, soloing the boss and completing the mission is a completely different thing.

[Sovera]

It's being efficient. No, trust me, it's not a personal insult lobbed at your face. No, it's not about secretly thinking that people will be looking at the screen and sighing wistfully thinking how cool those people are.

 

🙂

 

Eight people are steamrolling content. If the content is to find something or kill everything then the main group going left and someone going right is speeding things up.

 

Unless they are the meat shield. Or the content is actually hard. But the content is rarely hard if one person is capable of soloing it, innit?

[Hew]

DA mishs are some of the few that allow the not-leader to complete objectives. Almost all the rest of the content requires the mish leader to perform. This can lead to some silly hijinks like dragging a dead-ish Sorcerer around behind you because the leader cant/wont/doesnt understand to click the dead guy to complete it.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

My point is that breaking away from the group does slow things down and running off on your own is a selfish attitude. This is especially evident when the group isn't doing lvl50+, or farming, or "kill most", content. Lower level groups, and new players, actually rely on each other. They rely on people to play their respective roles, rely on heals/buffs, rely on the tank taking aggro, rely on the damage dealers to do big AoE damage. It also teaches the new players how to properly play their respective roles. Obviously, this doesn't apply if the group has a plan for specific content (for example: stealthing to the boss and then teleporting the group). But, how can you kill mobs faster on your own than with 7 other people supporting you with more damage/buffs/heals/etc? You can't, period. It's a lie people are telling themselves to justify their selfish attitude. Saying that it's making things better by going solo from a group is not true. The idiom "United we stand, divided we fall" has been around since the 6th century. Why? Because, in general, it's true and factual.

 

Now, if you require instructions in order to group, and none are given, then ASK. It's simple, just ask what the group is doing, or what the intention is. Not getting detailed instructions is not carte blanche to run off and do whatever you want; that is what solo is for. Someone running off to do whatever they want just because someone hasn't specifically told them what to do is very self-centred. It's even worse if someone does say something, but, that person ignores the request and continues to do whatever the hell they want anyway. If you want to do things your way, that's fine, go solo, do things "your way" to your heart's content, or start your own group and tell everyone they can just run around and do whatever they want.

 

Something that nobody has been able to answer with any kind of logic: If you are not going to be with the group, why be in a group at all?

 

Edited September 25, 2021 by Bob_Loblaw

[Ukase]

56 minutes ago, SuperPlyx said:

IMO this comes into play when the player completes the mission, as I stated earlier. 

 

In the instance I was referring to we where doing DA arcs, I run these a lot. I would say almost half the time I run these there is someone on the team who has not done them.

By this guy running to the end and soloing the boss and completing mission, the player on the team that has never run that mission just got robbed of an experience.

 

And that is why I think it matters whose mission it is, running off killing things is one thing, soloing the boss and completing the mission is a completely different thing.

I confess, I've been in your shoes before - on a lowbie, doing an SG event, where the activity was specifically titled "Crawl team", and a member zipped on in and kayoed the Sea Witch before I ever got a look at her. I was a bit miffed, so I can see your point here. 

But - if you're speaking of Dark Astoria missions, you may not be aware, but these are technically farm missions for most players. They get them specifically because you CAN run to the back, kill the boss and be done with it. I know of one chap who did the same arc dozens of times until he finally finished t-4s in all the slots, including multiple destinies and lores. 
Almost everyone I know has done these literally dozens of times at least. 

Now, I get that it is quite presumptuous of anyone to assume everyone else has, too. So, I would apologize for this other speedy player if it meant anything. 
I just think that communication goes both ways. As leader, it's your job to relay your expectations to the team. And, yeah, zipping ahead in the context you describe, I can see that being irritating. But right after that, you should say in team chat, "Well, in the future, let's wait until we all get to the back room before we complete the mission." Then, if someone has an issue, they can be an a$$hat and do it anyway, or they can leave the team, or they can comply with your request. 

 

[Dazl]

Question is why join a team if you don’t want to be part of the team? I have joined plenty of teams where I could just solo the mission, but I’m there because I want to be part of the team and use my powers to help them complete the mission together. It does seem like bad form to do otherwise unless the team leader wants that.

[Nemu]

When I run teams/TF I just declare: "If you want to speed go ahead. Those that don't want to speed hang with me and we'll kill stuff on our way to the objective."

 

9 times out of 10 the majority of the team will stick with me and there'll be 1 or two that rush ahead. And the reality is that a lot of times the kill team will pretty much clear up to the objective during the time it takes for the 1 or 2 loners to clear the final room.

 

Unless it's a glowie click...

[Brutal Justice]

It’s common courtesy to default to whatever method the team lead is using.  They are the one who is putting in the extra effort it takes to form and run a team.  

 

That means.  If they don’t say stealth to the end, then you don’t.  If they run to the end without a word then you do as well, if you are capable to do so.  

 

When you default very little communication is needed.  They only need to communicate if they wish for you to do something different from what they themselves are doing.  

 

People who solo on teams want the fun of soloing plus the clear speed efficiency of a team.  They’re using the team, not participating.  If seven other people are suffering with corpse blasting, due to the current state of the game, then you should be also.  It’s selfish to use the team for its benefits, while not also sharing in its downfalls.  

 

It “might” be quicker and more efficient for someone to split off and solo.  In general, It’s not quicker for 8 people to split off in 8 different directions.  

 

If you’re the 1 who is splitting you’re being selfish because you’re probably not the only one who is capable of doing so.  If everyone who was capable of splitting off did, then the team would suffer.  To think you should be able to while the rest of the team stays together is a case of self entitlement.  

[Ignatz the Insane]

4 minutes ago, Brutal Justice said:

If seven other people are suffering with corpse blasting, due to the current state of the game, then you should be also.  It’s selfish to use the team for its benefits, while not also sharing in its downfalls.  

Just to be clear...you're saying if you're on a team that's corpse blasting and you decide to go on your own to avoid corpse blasting,  you're using the team and being selfish?   Does that include mid to high level Task Forces?  If I see a steamrolling team and wasting attacks on a scrapper, I'll hang back for a spawn and gauge how the rest of the team does.  If the mob is obliterated without me, yea, I'm gonna go another direction on some Task Forces, especially kill alls. 

 

If I join a mission team I generally stay with the team and I don't stealth unless the Team Leader says something.  But If I'm corpse blasting on a high level team I'll treat it like a Task Force.  But hey, if you'd rather my leaving such a team so you can replace me with someone else for corpse blasting duty, go for it.  Corpse blasting isn't fun for me.  

[Bill Z Bubba]

Huh. Whenever my SG wants me to stop running off on my own or aggroing every spawn in sight they just ask and I do. Mostly.

OTOH, they just as often tell me to go kill shit until there's no more red boxes to target.

As others stated, communication helps.

[Eva Destruction]

If you don't want me to run off on my own, turn up the difficulty to the point where it doesn't make more sense for me to do so.

 

Besides, in my experience people rarely solo on teams anyway.  There's always that one other person who feels the team is overkilling everything and follows the person going off on their own. 

[The_Warpact]

And this is why I only team with my friends, there is no having to explain how to team, no people going of on their own, not following directions, etc.

Going with strangers gets you strange results, no thanks.

[Aurora_Girl]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Huh. Whenever my SG wants me to stop running off on my own or aggroing every spawn in sight they just ask and I do. Mostly.

OTOH, they just as often tell me to go kill shit until there's no more red boxes to target.

As others stated, communication helps.

 

You misspelled "They know I'm a cruelly efficient murder machine and to attempt any semblance of control would be futile" wrong. 

[Techwright]

Yeah, OP, I've seen it.  I don't mind when one or two stealth to the end then tp everyone to the end room.  That's a team effort just trimming down the time.  What concerns me is I've seen more and more, especially on task forces and missions with AV's, where they'll deliberately race to the end, NOT use team teleports, and try to finish off the elite boss or AV on their own leaving others to try to fight their way to the destination with a reduced team.    It could be that those one or two CAN solo or duo the AV, but that's not what the team experience is for. 

[Aurora_Girl]

On PUGs, if I'm leading... somebody wants to go Leeeeroy? Let 'em. Either they can handle themselves, or they can't. If they can, and for whatever reason I don't want them speeding/stealthing/etc, as lead it's my responsibility to say so. 

 

If they can't? They'll get waxed and either learn to stay with the murderball or quit the team. Either way is a win in my book. As in most of human existence, communication is key. 

[Sovera]

11 hours ago, Bob_Loblaw said:

My point is that breaking away from the group does slow things down and running off on your own is a selfish attitude. This is especially evident when the group isn't doing lvl50+, or farming, or "kill most", content. Lower level groups, and new players, actually rely on each other. They rely on people to play their respective roles, rely on heals/buffs, rely on the tank taking aggro, rely on the damage dealers to do big AoE damage. It also teaches the new players how to properly play their respective roles. Obviously, this doesn't apply if the group has a plan for specific content (for example: stealthing to the boss and then teleporting the group). But, how can you kill mobs faster on your own than with 7 other people supporting you with more damage/buffs/heals/etc? You can't, period. It's a lie people are telling themselves to justify their selfish attitude. Saying that it's making things better by going solo from a group is not true. The idiom "United we stand, divided we fall" has been around since the 6th century. Why? Because, in general, it's true and factual.

 

Now, if you require instructions in order to group, and none are given, then ASK. It's simple, just ask what the group is doing, or what the intention is. Not getting detailed instructions is not carte blanche to run off and do whatever you want; that is what solo is for. Someone running off to do whatever they want just because someone hasn't specifically told them what to do is very self-centred. It's even worse if someone does say something, but, that person ignores the request and continues to do whatever the hell they want anyway. If you want to do things your way, that's fine, go solo, do things "your way" to your heart's content, or start your own group and tell everyone they can just run around and do whatever they want.

 

Something that nobody has been able to answer with any kind of logic: If you are not going to be with the group, why be in a group at all?

 

 

It doesn't hurry things up, but I'm not going to argue with you further. This is another one of those arguments where I can show up with mathematical proof and it will be dismissed because 'MY FEELINGS MATTER!'. This is not about the team being faster with one person going left instead of right because the team obliterates a spawn leaving people animating skills that hit corpses, this is about you not liking them doing that. It's based on emotions, not facts. You don't like them to do that. Stop coating the argument with altruistic tones that the team is missing out by having that Scrapper or Brute haring off.

 

There is hardly any objective that the team splitting up will not achieve it faster. Be it kill all, find a random clicky or find a boss. I've played this game long enough and have been the one haring off. I have also played this game for a long time as a Tanker so I do not hare off leaving my squishies undefended. In either case as a TF-leveler there is a distinct improvement in times when someone does part of the content solo. Suddenly watch Synapse not taking 1:30 (or in one infamous case for me, two hours) but rather taking 1:10. If I'm playing with my usual friend who also splits from the team watch Synapse go down to one hour.

 

Now with all of this said it remains a game, a hobby we do in our spare time. If it bothers you that people do some of these things (which is perfectly acceptable. My own pet peeve is Controllers spamming mass immobilizes/AoE fears/AoE stuns, or players spamming knockbacks because 'it helps' *narrator: none of it, in fact does help*) then make a team where you state it: steam rolling team doing X. Don't join if you're going to go ahead soloing stuff. Warning, you WILL be kicked off the team.

 

Voila, your problem has now been solved.

 

To be fair I could do with my teams and state I do not accept Controllers or that people who knockback will get one warning to stop and then they will be kicked, but I don't. It's a pet peeve not a phobia, I can live with the small annoyance of mass immobilizes/fears/stuns.

[Bob_Loblaw]

49 minutes ago, Sovera said:

 

It doesn't hurry things up, but I'm not going to argue with you further. This is another one of those arguments where I can show up with mathematical proof and it will be dismissed because 'MY FEELINGS MATTER!'. This is not about the team being faster with one person going left instead of right because the team obliterates a spawn leaving people animating skills that hit corpses, this is about you not liking them doing that. It's based on emotions, not facts. You don't like them to do that. Stop coating the argument with altruistic tones that the team is missing out by having that Scrapper or Brute haring off.

 

There is hardly any objective that the team splitting up will not achieve it faster. Be it kill all, find a random clicky or find a boss. I've played this game long enough and have been the one haring off. I have also played this game for a long time as a Tanker so I do not hare off leaving my squishies undefended. In either case as a TF-leveler there is a distinct improvement in times when someone does part of the content solo. Suddenly watch Synapse not taking 1:30 (or in one infamous case for me, two hours) but rather taking 1:10. If I'm playing with my usual friend who also splits from the team watch Synapse go down to one hour.

 

Now with all of this said it remains a game, a hobby we do in our spare time. If it bothers you that people do some of these things (which is perfectly acceptable. My own pet peeve is Controllers spamming mass immobilizes/AoE fears/AoE stuns, or players spamming knockbacks because 'it helps' *narrator: none of it, in fact does help*) then make a team where you state it: steam rolling team doing X. Don't join if you're going to go ahead soloing stuff. Warning, you WILL be kicked off the team.

 

Voila, your problem has now been solved.

 

To be fair I could do with my teams and state I do not accept Controllers or that people who knockback will get one warning to stop and then they will be kicked, but I don't. It's a pet peeve not a phobia, I can live with the small annoyance of mass immobilizes/fears/stuns.

 

No, this doesn't have anything to do with my feelings. You are making it about feelings because you really have no argument other than the classic ad hominem attack and call me out on "feelings". I'm actually amazed you didn't call me a snowflake or cuck. *SMH* Go ahead with your math, show me how every single time a group is formed is faster/more efficient for one person to the same content a group can do. Please, really, I want to see this....

[Sovera]

Just now, Bob_Loblaw said:

 

No, this doesn't have anything to do with my feelings. You are making it about feelings because you really have no argument other than the classic ad hominem attack and call me out on "feelings". I'm actually amazed you didn't call me a snowflake or cuck. *SMH* Go ahead with your math, show me how every single time a group is formed is faster/more efficient for one person to the same content a group can do. Please, really, I want to see this....

 

You obviously do not know me if you think I do internet insults. My posting history for the past two years is available for perusal.

 

I can do better than that though. If you play on Everlasting we can pick a random TF (Synapse takes too long but it's the best showcase because of the kill alls that can't be rushed through). If you don't then I can transfer to your server and we can run two of the same TF back to back and in one of them I will 'solo' the appropriate parts. Notice I don't say speedrun. Speedrunning is not my thing and not what is in question here.

[Bob_Loblaw]

3 minutes ago, Sovera said:

 

You obviously do not know me if you think I do internet insults. My posting history for the past two years is available for perusal.

 

 

 

Except that is exactly what you did....

1 hour ago, Sovera said:

It doesn't hurry things up, but I'm not going to argue with you further. This is another one of those arguments where I can show up with mathematical proof and it will be dismissed because 'MY FEELINGS MATTER!'. This is not about the team being faster with one person going left instead of right because the team obliterates a spawn leaving people animating skills that hit corpses, this is about you not liking them doing that. It's based on emotions, not facts. You don't like them to do that. Stop coating the argument with altruistic tones that the team is missing out by having that Scrapper or Brute haring off.

 

*facepalm*

[Sovera]

Just now, Bob_Loblaw said:

 

Except that is exactly what you did....

 

*facepalm*

 

Saying it is about your feelings and you do not like seeing people haring off and soloing is not an insult... Facepalms and etc.

 

Anyway, I said I would not argue and here I am. My proposal stands. Random people joining in the TF ensures it will not be biased either way since we will be just two out of eight.

 

Accept it, or not, I said what I had to say.