Focused Feedback: Advanced Difficulty Options and Challenge Mode

[Cobalt Arachne]

7 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Anyway, more options are good, but I expect that it’s going to be a lot harder to find PUGs for anything other than what people think will provide the greatest reward for the least amount of effort.  I’m not complaining; I’m just predicting.

I'm hoping that this won't be the case.

The ASF with advanced difficulty options cranked up is a very different experience, enough so that I suspect some people may not find it to their liking and yet others may only want to run content like it as it becomes more widely available. 

My expectation is there will be healthy interest in both versions depending on the type of player, the time availability, and character type (Tank, Control, and Support roles are very much more involved and actively contributing in advanced difficulty).

If people are looking for easy merits-per-effort, they're likely not going to find a home within the upper tiers of advanced difficulty... It does pay out a fair bit more, yes, but you work hard to earn that additional payout.

[Coyotedancer]

It'll be interesting to see if that particular combination of difficulty-plus-higher-payment results in a lot more "You must be *this l33t* to join" issues.

 

Right now, you can run most tasks in the game with almost anything, so unless it's a master run or they're going for a speed record or something, team-builders typically aren't very particular about gear standards, AT or set choices. The challenge difficulties may change that dynamic as people figure out exactly what's needed to squeeze the maximum merits-per-minute out of them.

 

Hopefully we won't ever see WOW-style gear scores and DPS metering become A Thing, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if the LFG doesn't get a lot of "X TF forming. 50+ power-builds only. No Sents/PBs"-style adverts once the challenge settings are more common. 

[Cobalt Arachne]

39 minutes ago, Coyotedancer said:

It'll be interesting to see if that particular combination of difficulty-plus-higher-payment results in a lot more "You must be *this l33t* to join" issues.

 

Right now, you can run most tasks in the game with almost anything, so unless it's a master run or they're going for a speed record or something, team-builders typically aren't very particular about gear standards, AT or set choices. The challenge difficulties may change that dynamic as people figure out exactly what's needed to squeeze the maximum merits-per-minute out of them.

 

Hopefully we won't ever see WOW-style gear scores and DPS metering become A Thing, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if the LFG doesn't get a lot of "X TF forming. 50+ power-builds only. No Sents/PBs"-style adverts once the challenge settings are more common. 

I've explained it a number of times to other testers during runs and whatnot, but ultimately the game is an MMO, and the team space is important element of that...

Currently at maxed out endgame, teams play more like eight individuals all soloing the same content together. Choices are irrelevant, there is no risk of failure, mistakes have no consequences. The trick with the advanced difficulty will be players having to relearn what it means to play as a team again, and I realize some people might not like that, but that's why they are options, and not the default version of the content.

Overpulling will be dangerous, going off alone might get you killed, and team splits could lead to wipes; But this is how MMOs usually work in team settings.

People who like see things explode, do big numbers, and have no burden of responsibility to their team can continue to do so without any problem in the existing, lower difficulty settings.

I suspect players who favor characters that are much more team-oriented, like Control and Support, will find the new difficulty options extremely rewarding to play as they're allowed to really shine on the team again. They can help cover mistakes, contain the threat, and do what they were designed to do in a way that contributes to success of the win.

Edit: I don't think it'll usher in an era of 'l33t 0n1y', but my hope is it will usher in an era of people who want a team experience where they are working together to win. This may lead to more SG scheduled runs, planned things, etc, but that's good for longevity and community in an MMO.

[arcane]

1 minute ago, Cobalt Arachne said:

I've explained it a number of times to other testers during runs and whatnot, but ultimately the game is an MMO, and the team space is important element of that...

Currently at maxed out endgame, teams play more like eight individuals all soloing the same content together. Choices are irrelevant, there is no risk of failure, mistakes have no consequences. The trick with the advanced difficulty will be players having to relearn what it means to play as a team again, and I realize some people might not like that, but that's why they are options, and not the default version of the content.

Overpulling will be dangerous, going off alone might get you killed, and team splits could lead to wipes; But this is how MMOs usually work in team settings.

People who like see things explode, do big numbers, and have no burden of responsibility to their team can continue to do so without any problem in the existing, lower difficulty settings.

I suspect players who favor characters that are much more team-oriented, like Control and Support, will find the new difficulty options extremely rewarding to play as they're allowed to really shine on the team again. They can help cover mistakes, contain the threat, and do what they were designed to do in a way that contributes to success of the win.

Perfect post on all counts 🙂

[PeregrineFalcon]

I'm really looking forward to this challenge mode hitting the live servers. However, I hope that the mods and devs are already prepared to deal with the following:

1. Don't make this game about the trinity again!
2. Why can't I PUG on Mega-Death difficulty!?!
3. It's not fair that Sentinels get a mez toggle and Blasters don't!
4. All character should immediately get X temp power when zoning in to a mission that's set on Mega-Death difficulty!
5. Sentinels don't do enough damage!
6. The devs are trying to force me to get on Discord and actually *gasp* talk to other people!!!
7. ZOMG! Mega-Death difficulty is waaaaaay too hard!!!!111eleventyone111!!!!

[Mezmera]

1 hour ago, Coyotedancer said:

but it wouldn't surprise me at all if the LFG doesn't get a lot of "X TF forming. 50+ power-builds only. No Sents/PBs"-style adverts once the challenge settings are more common

 

It's definitely beneficial to have some balance on these advanced difficulty runs but they did a good job of not making it so lopsided to make it exclusionary to any one particular AT, even Sentinels, but I'm not sure about those aliens though...

 

You'll likely see more filling of certain roles which most players have a different AT to bring to the table.  I can tank or get my dom, or ST burst damage stalker or aoe machine blaster and I can even bring a support character.  There's a better emphasis for balance which most teams can sort out once they have a grasp of what they need to shore up to undertake a run.  It's on the lead to have a looksie at their team on Relentless and at least pause to coordinate some type of balance if at the very least your Destiny powers.  

 

This new SF is great, there's not an overabundance of mez characters, rather debuffs, so it's still enjoyable from that aspect but still quite hard with those debuffs. 

 

I like the direction and I hope with harder new stuff we get some other dynamic encounters, I'd love to see one where there's some harsh mezzing going on, I'm talking groups filled with a Ghost Widow like character at every turn that can mez those upity tanks.  

[arcane]

17 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

 

1. The devs are trying to force me to get on Discord and actually *gasp* talk to other people!!!

I for one will not be swayed 🙂

[Sovera]

It will, of course, push towards having a certain team composition. The reason we grab anything up to and including 4-5 of the same AT is because the content is easy. If we have content that 'tears defenses' then yeah, of course we'll need counter measures.

 

[GM Impervium]

1 hour ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I'm really looking forward to this challenge mode hitting the live servers. However, I hope that the mods and devs are already prepared to deal with the following:

1. Don't make this game about the trinity again!
2. Why can't I PUG on Mega-Death difficulty!?!
3. It's not fair that Sentinels get a mez toggle and Blasters don't!
4. All character should immediately get X temp power when zoning in to a mission that's set on Mega-Death difficulty!
5. Sentinels don't do enough damage!
6. The devs are trying to force me to get on Discord and actually *gasp* talk to other people!!!
7. ZOMG! Mega-Death difficulty is waaaaaay too hard!!!!111eleventyone111!!!!

 

This is all of my anxiety made manifest 😭

 

But, we're up to the task! If anything, the complaints we get from non-forum users will be a good yardstick for how to apply challenge settings in the future 🙂

 

(Or I'll just forward all the complaints as bug reports just to annoy @Cobalt Arachne, but don't tell him I said that!)

[Lazarillo]

3 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

The devs are trying to force me to get on Discord and actually *gasp* talk to other people!!!

Seems a weird idea.  This game already has a chat function.

[Wavicle]

On 11/15/2021 at 2:17 PM, Brutal Justice said:

It seems like it would have been substantially less dev work to just place a defensive hard cap of 40% on non “tank” archetypes and 45% on “tank archetypes.  

 

Setting aside whether this would actually be a good idea... What knowledge are you basing this massive assumption on?

[Wavicle]

6 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Anyway, more options are good, but I expect that it’s going to be a lot harder to find PUGs for anything other than what people think will provide the greatest reward for the least amount of effort.

 

I feel like in HC just about all content gets run pretty consistently.

[KeepDistance]

On 11/16/2021 at 1:46 PM, KeepDistance said:

Screenshot still wrong in latest patch notes.

Still wrong... I know it seems like nitpicking but I think some people are going to think the Master Of challenge mode has the characteristics of the Old School Challenge Mode. *shrug* I guess it will only matter while the patch notes are relevant.

[Sevico7]

Can we have a no changes server for people who are happy with game as it is.

[Ruin Mage]

No.

EDIT: Changes are needed, specifically, to make this game thrive. Things are stale, boring, and otherwise far too easy. None of the servers are upholding a "No Changes" style approach, and that's for the better.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Shadeknight

[ForeverLaxx]

1 hour ago, Sevico7 said:

Can we have a no changes server for people who are happy with game as it is.

You sure can. You're free to make your own server and run it yourself.

[AerialAssault]

2 hours ago, Sevico7 said:

Can we have a no changes server for people who are happy with game as it is.

 

Only after Regen is nerfed and Hasten is removed, then you can have your museum server.

 

Also, this probably isn't the thread for this. Best to make a thread in the suggestions forum.

[arcane]

2 hours ago, Sevico7 said:

Can we have a no changes server for people who are happy with game as it is.

Everything here is completely optional, why on earth would you say that?

 

This seems comparable to people’s requests to segregate players away from their favorite chat channels. It doesn’t affect you in the slightest unless sharing a space with people that aren’t exactly like you is just a total non-starter to you.

Edited November 26, 2021 by arcane

[Wavicle]

7 hours ago, Sevico7 said:

Can we have a no changes server for people who are happy with game as it is.

You can make your own server.

[Doomguide2005]

@Shadeknighthappen to know what seem to Immobilize Occult on a couple of occasions while CJ appeared to be active (meaning about mag 9+ on you at the time)?  At least once in your video it happened while a Bricker was about to explode, can't move if pinned in place).  I also noted you getting Taunted a few times.  It's both good to see that sort of thing at that difficulty and concerning since afaik there's no protection (only resistance) against Taunt.

[Ruin Mage]

Immobilize generally will come from the AU-Rifter bosses.
Boomers taunt.