Focused Feedback: Electrical Blast Revamp

[ScarySai]

2 hours ago, Player-1 said:

In regards to Single Target output, Shock is meant to assist greatly alongside Voltaic Sentinel when it comes to sustained Single Target damage as the target's endurance falls. Chain Lightning is also meant to supplement the other two AoE's in the set alongside Thunderous Blast, aided by Shocks and Voltaic Sentinel spreading out electrical bolts. 

 

Paired up with the other utilities in the set we feel that the added damage through these means strikes a certain balance when you consider how you can drain enemies fully and keep them there on top of the offensive output! How has everyone's experience with the offense plus utility been with the changes?

 

I think you guys did a great job here. The core problem with single target that's being highlighted is just the fact that there aren't a lot of attacks to cycle through on elec.

 

Lightning bolt isn't ideal as-is, and tesla cage not really doing anything on the main target in terms of damage means you have to find other ways around it. Blasters have blaps, so that's not really an issue for them. For corruptors and fenders it will be more noticeable.

 

Buffing Tesla's main target damage would encourage using it more often. As it stands, even with full charges I don't really go out of my way to use it on aoe, it needs to hit a little harder there, but it actually hurting the main target would definitely have me using it more, regardless of aoe changes. You might say tesla's sapping capability indirectly boosts damage, and to an extent that is true, but if my target is already zero'd, then that gain drops considerably.

 

Either way, this is damn near perfect and only needs some small adjustments, at this point. I love what was done here.

Edited November 8, 2021 by ScarySai

[Greycat]

8 hours ago, JayboH said:

Did you see my post earlier:

 

If you never play with others that can hold aggro to prevent your VS detoggle, it's useless.

 

If you never play with others that can grant status protection to prevent your VS detoggle, it's useless.

 

If you never take powers that grant your character status protection to prevent your VS detoggle, it's useless.

 

If you only fight enemies that can hit you with a status effect that detoggles VS, it's useless.

 

...you see my point?  It's a player's choice.  I prefer the toggle, especially since the original had such a long cooldown and a very large up front end cost.

 

1. You're aware there are such things as AOE mezzes that can hit you as well as whoever else has aggro, as well as ambushes, right? AOE sleeps, AOE holds, stun grenades...  

2. You're aware that there are teams that do not have people granting status protection, right? Or that it can drop? And that teaming should NOT be a prerequisite to playing the game?

3. Blaster.  Not available for most of the game.  Not available for much of the game on a Defender or Corruptor for most sets, either.

4. You're aware that there are a *great many groups* that have status effects, right? Starting all the way down in the single-digit levels and appearing through the rest of the game. Including sleeps, which can cut through the protection some support sets give against mez. (And which, of course, will detoggle VS.)

 

And no, it is not 'players choice.' Unless you're so uptight about which content you play and MUST have certain things on the team that pay attention to you specifically. Me, I play the *entire* game, from 1-50, on the way up, with whoever comes along, with friends, or solo, and not while going "OMG we NEED this so I don't get mezzed!" Of course, with live VS, I don't have to *worry* about losing it by getting mezzed.

 

And "Long recharge?" Let's see. Description of VS:

"Creates pet Voltaic Sentinel for 1m0s."

Recharge time:

1m0s.

 

Hmmm. No, doesn't look like you have a point there, either. Everything other than an SO or basic, non set IO build - and even some of those - will have overlap.

 

So, yes, I saw your prior post and gave it all the attention it deserved. Only bothering to reply to you this time to point out your "points" (mostly thinly disguised "L2P") are seriously flawed,

[LightningDrone]

My Main Toon is Lightning Drone (Electric/Electric/Electric Blaster) since approximately 2007 on City of Heroes live servers. Easily have played with those sets for over 1000 hours minimum.

 

In plain English as best as I can, current COH Homecoming experience.

 

Voltaic Sentinel (Electric Blast) pet is almost irrelevant. I never slot it with enhancement slots. The fact is the power is simply a cantrip. I'd rather something else completely.

 

Build Up and Power Sink from the Electric Manipulation secondary set are the only completely necessary powers to train and have enhancement slots. In theory all blaster secondary sets could be labelled as cantrip sets. That just might be the reason why many players are afraid to play blasters. Blaster secondary sets are 90% irrelevant cantrips.

 

I've never played Sentinels but perhaps blasters could borrow a couple toggles for damage resistance to replace powers in secondary sets. That just might make Blasters a tiny bit more solo friendly and a little more tolerant of short melee combat encounters. Maybe toggles that are more effective for buffing the party's damage output than the Leadership Pool Power Set. 

 

In summary in plain English, Blaster secondary sets have too many cantrips that are never worth slotting.

 

Thanks for the Ted Talk,

Lightning Drone

 

 

 

[DarknessEternal]

9 minutes ago, LightningDrone said:

Build Up and Power Sink from the Electric Manipulation secondary set are the only completely necessary powers to train and have enhancement slots. In theory all blaster secondary sets could be labelled as cantrip sets. That just might be the reason why many players are afraid to play blasters. Blaster secondary sets are 90% irrelevant cantrips.

I was going to make a snarky comment about how someone could be so wrong, but let's inform.

 

Except for Fire Blast, every primary set is outdone in damage by the secondary sets.

[Glacier Peak]

45 minutes ago, LightningDrone said:

My Main Toon is Lightning Drone (Electric/Electric/Electric Blaster) since approximately 2007 on City of Heroes live servers. Easily have played with those sets for over 1000 hours minimum.

 

In plain English as best as I can, current COH Homecoming experience.

 

Voltaic Sentinel (Electric Blast) pet is almost irrelevant. I never slot it with enhancement slots. The fact is the power is simply a cantrip. I'd rather something else completely.

 

Build Up and Power Sink from the Electric Manipulation secondary set are the only completely necessary powers to train and have enhancement slots. In theory all blaster secondary sets could be labelled as cantrip sets. That just might be the reason why many players are afraid to play blasters. Blaster secondary sets are 90% irrelevant cantrips.

 

I've never played Sentinels but perhaps blasters could borrow a couple toggles for damage resistance to replace powers in secondary sets. That just might make Blasters a tiny bit more solo friendly and a little more tolerant of short melee combat encounters. Maybe toggles that are more effective for buffing the party's damage output than the Leadership Pool Power Set. 

 

In summary in plain English, Blaster secondary sets have too many cantrips that are never worth slotting.

 

Thanks for the Ted Talk,

Lightning Drone

Not sure if you've missed it in the patch notes or tested it and didn't realize but VS got its biggest bump in damage ever and contributes to the new shock mechanic now. Not sure how you think any of that is a trick, or some mischievous or playful act. 

[JayboH]

4 hours ago, Greycat said:

 

1. You're aware there are such things as AOE mezzes that can hit you as well as whoever else has aggro, as well as ambushes, right? AOE sleeps, AOE holds, stun grenades...  

2. You're aware that there are teams that do not have people granting status protection, right? Or that it can drop? And that teaming should NOT be a prerequisite to playing the game?

3. Blaster.  Not available for most of the game.  Not available for much of the game on a Defender or Corruptor for most sets, either.

4. You're aware that there are a *great many groups* that have status effects, right? Starting all the way down in the single-digit levels and appearing through the rest of the game. Including sleeps, which can cut through the protection some support sets give against mez. (And which, of course, will detoggle VS.)

 

And no, it is not 'players choice.' Unless you're so uptight about which content you play and MUST have certain things on the team that pay attention to you specifically. Me, I play the *entire* game, from 1-50, on the way up, with whoever comes along, with friends, or solo, and not while going "OMG we NEED this so I don't get mezzed!" Of course, with live VS, I don't have to *worry* about losing it by getting mezzed.

 

And "Long recharge?" Let's see. Description of VS:

"Creates pet Voltaic Sentinel for 1m0s."

Recharge time:

1m0s.

 

Hmmm. No, doesn't look like you have a point there, either. Everything other than an SO or basic, non set IO build - and even some of those - will have overlap.

 

So, yes, I saw your prior post and gave it all the attention it deserved. Only bothering to reply to you this time to point out your "points" (mostly thinly disguised "L2P") are seriously flawed,

1.  Yes, that's player's choice.  Why would you choose to be within AOE range of the target intentionally eating damage and mez attempts?  Positioning is player choice.

2.  Yes.  Yes.  Status protection is not a prerequisite to playing the game.  Never having a toggle drop is also not a prerequisite to playing the game.  Player choice here too.

3.  Let's go with the lowest common denominator: Break frees don't exist anymore as drops or from vendors.  Weird.  Maybe verify your client files.

4.  Yes, nothing indicated I didn't.  You claim it isn't player's choice and yet it is.

 

This is all to prevent a player from clicking a power more than once, to retoggle, as you would have to click the ability multiple times if it wasn't a toggle anyway.  It's useless, you claim.  You are obviously being hyperbolic but I don't understand why.  Long recharge?  Yes, sticking to that easily - for the dps it provided prior to the changes, compared to the blasts of a player, a one minute recharge is long. 

 

Zero flaws.

[JayboH]

5 hours ago, DarknessEternal said:

PS, Voltaic Sentinel as a toggle is the bees knees.

People have been asking for it as far back as I remember.

[Heatstroke]

I just dont know if its worth respecing my whole build on my Sentinel to squeeze in VS. But then again as a Sentinel I dont get stunned... so shouldnt be an issue with it Detoggling.. but then it could easily aggro stuff I dont want aggroed...

 

[JayboH]

31 minutes ago, Heatstroke said:

I just dont know if its worth respecing my whole build on my Sentinel to squeeze in VS. But then again as a Sentinel I dont get stunned... so shouldnt be an issue with it Detoggling.. but then it could easily aggro stuff I dont want aggroed...

 

I think it is 70 ft, if that helps.

[Wavicle]

1 hour ago, Heatstroke said:

I just dont know if its worth respecing my whole build on my Sentinel to squeeze in VS. But then again as a Sentinel I dont get stunned... so shouldnt be an issue with it Detoggling.. but then it could easily aggro stuff I dont want aggroed...

 

you can detoggle it on purpose and it only takes a few seconds to recharge!

[Heatstroke]

1 hour ago, Wavicle said:

you can detoggle it on purpose and it only takes a few seconds to recharge!

 

 

sigh.... opening Mids...

[Replacement]

On 11/8/2021 at 3:44 PM, Glacier Peak said:

Not sure if you've missed it in the patch notes or tested it and didn't realize but VS got its biggest bump in damage ever and contributes to the new shock mechanic now. Not sure how you think any of that is a trick, or some mischievous or playful act. 

 

Not that I disagree with your overall take, but I think your text book definition is leading you astray there: "cantrip" typically just means "novice spell" or similar. Low-level, weak, etc.

 

@LightningDrone your post reads as a summary of the live experience, across multiple elec sets - I strongly recommend trying the beta version, but be aware there isn't anything direct coming to Electric Manipulation this patch.

 

If nothing else, I think Voltaic Sentinel may be a surprise to you.

[Replacement]

I would love if Voltaic had its attack range reduced a bit but move speed increased.

Heck I would say give it combat teleport but I don't imagine the AI system could handle it.

Edited November 9, 2021 by Replacement

[Glacier Peak]

29 minutes ago, Replacement said:

Not that I disagree with your overall take, but I think your text book definition is leading you astray there: "cantrip" typically just means "novice spell" or similar. Low-level, weak, etc.

Yeah it is not a word I use in my day to day so I googled it, and Google says: 

 

Spoiler

 

[Wavicle]

Just now, Glacier Peak said:

Yeah it is not a word I use in my day to day so I googled it, and Google says: 

 

  Hide contents

 

The word is used in dungeons and dragons to refer to the level zero spells that a new character is allowed to cast.

[Glacier Peak]

2 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

The word is used in dungeons and dragons to refer to the level zero spells that a new character is allowed to cast.

I did not know that. The context is appreciated!

[Glacier Peak]

Anecdotal input ahead;

 

Electric Blast on Sentinel is in a good place. Level 50, T4 Incarnates, fully maxed Set Bonuses with a focus on recharge, Thunderous Blast coming back every 20 or so seconds, VS dropping stacks of Static, end drain city and I'm defeating Level 54 minions and lieutenants like they're conned green. Level 54 bosses are another story, but I'll attribute that to the fact I'm playing a Sentinel.... but it is odd that they take minutes longer to defeat than their minion and lieuts that go down in seconds.

 

Follow up question. Does the Static mechanic scale against enemy Level? What about enemy rank? Is it only based on their endurance drained?

[Communistpenguin]

On 11/5/2021 at 5:51 PM, Greycat said:

Going to say (and yes, I have played it) I dislike having VS be a toggle. Specifically because *toggles detoggle when mezzed,* and that's when I want VS out there.  That's when it's helped me.

 

Putting it in as a toggle makes it 100% skippable on anything but a sentinel, which already has mez protection.

 

Make it longer duration, make it show up in a pet window, fine. But don't make it a toggle. That makes it useless.  Yes, calling it "useless" is strong wording. It deserves it.

I wont skip it, but otherwise I agree. Moreover, as a storm/elec defender, I am already dealing with endurance issues, i do not want another toggle power to run.

[Riverdusk]

On 11/6/2021 at 9:32 AM, Player-1 said:

The endurance cost is actually the same as before if stretched over the previous 60s duration, and combined with Shock should actually be less costly overall.

 

 

I like the change overall, but that isn't quite true.  On live it costs 26 endurance to cast.  If cast exactly every 60 seconds that is equal to .433 per second.  On test as a toggle it costs .52 per second or 31.2 per minute.  That is a 20% endurance cost increase, although before any shock benefits.

[arcane]

19 hours ago, Communistpenguin said:

I wont skip it, but otherwise I agree. Moreover, as a storm/elec defender, I am already dealing with endurance issues, i do not want another toggle power to run.

Running a storm without Ageless does sound like commie behavior

[arcane]

On 11/9/2021 at 4:04 PM, Glacier Peak said:

I did not know that. The context is appreciated!

They are also spells in Guild Wars 2!

[Communistpenguin]

3 hours ago, arcane said:

Running a storm without Ageless does sound like commie behavior

I use clarion for the mez protection. Also I often play the earlier content so its not always an option.

[Wavicle]

My storm defender uses barrier and cardiac.

[Kaika]

On 11/2/2021 at 7:57 PM, Player-1 said:

 

• Charged Bolts, Lightning Bolt, and Zapp/Zapping Bolt will build Static charges as long as you own Tesla Cage or any Electrical Affinity power.
• This Static is shared with Electrical Affinity
• In addition, Electrical Manipulation for Blasters can gain static with Electric Fence, Charged Brawl, Havok Punch, and Shocking Grasp if you own Tesla Cage.

 

 

I haven't had a chance to test out the changes (I'll probably make a follow up post when I do, they look fine), I want to comment on this specific change since it has been living rent free in my head since I read it. To Be blunt:

 

I think this is a terrible Idea.

 

Maybe I'm being a bit dramatic when I say this but I feel it goes directly against the core idea of CoH character builder. It discourages diversity by attaching direct mechanical advantages to playing a specific combo. Giving bonuses tied directly to unique mechanics makes me feel like I'm not getting the full Electric blast experience if I don't pair it with a thematically appropriate set (same for Ele Affinity and Manipulation). I'm fine with these set synergizing well with each other, they all contain end drain which Ele blast benefits from, but adding specific interactions like this that I miss out on because I play Ele/Dev is something I really do not like and feel like has no place in this game. I'm aware this was done a bit by the original devs with AR/Dev and I thought it was a awful idea then (was also kind of a laughable bonus). At the end of the day I just don't want to feel like I'm missing out on the full potential of my primary/secondary because I decided to go with a different combo. IMO any kind of of unique mechanic like this should be self contained or effect ANY secondary choice.

 

[arcane]

21 hours ago, Wavicle said:

My storm defender uses barrier and cardiac.

I made one of my Poisons able to run forever without Ageless, but that build has 17 level 53 HO’s, I believe 😕 Doable but tough.