Interface (Incarnate Power) vagaries

[macskull]

31 minutes ago, Uun said:

I was just discussing this on another thread. While Degenerative may be the "best" debuff, it has become too popular. After 4 applications, any additional applications are wasted. 

This is why I use Reactive on a few characters but the rest of the interface procs are so awful that I don't bother.

[Peacemoon]

I am going to try cognitive soon and see how it works. The confuse is low mag and low duration, but will be interesting to see how well it stacks when you’re attacking a lot.

 

Plus my character is psychic themed so will fit nice!

[Sovera]

44 minutes ago, Peacemoon said:

I am going to try cognitive soon and see how it works. The confuse is low mag and low duration, but will be interesting to see how well it stacks when you’re attacking a lot.

 

Plus my character is psychic themed so will fit nice!

 

REmember to test this over Brainstorm. It'll save you incarnate materials.

 

I still remember testing the one that saps enemies and having killed the +4 rikti with their blue bar still intact.

[Peacemoon]

20 minutes ago, Sovera said:

 

REmember to test this over Brainstorm. It'll save you incarnate materials.

 

I still remember testing the one that saps enemies and having killed the +4 rikti with their blue bar still intact.

 

Thanks, I might do that. I have a pretty low expectations to be fair - it would be mainly for confusing minions who get caught in my AoEs.

Its whether the 20% confuse/25% DoT would be better than the 12% confuse/75% DoT.

[Zhym]

On 11/15/2021 at 6:58 PM, Placta said:

• Tier only matters for the chance each proc has to fire.
• Stacks don't depend on source; 1 or 50 people all firing at the target just affect how quickly you'll reach the cap.
• Credit to UberGuy and City of Data for this information.

 

Cognitive
Confuse: 4.3 seecond magnitude 2 confuse, stacks up to 4 times
Psionic DoT: 10.709 psionic damage per second for 4.3 seconds, stacks up to 8 times

 

Degenerative
Max HP: -3.5% max hp (capped at 1000 for archvillains and similarly strong enemies) for 8.3 seconds, stacks up to 4 times
Toxic DoT: 10.709 toxic damage per second for 4.3 seconds, stacks up to 8 times

 

Diamagnetic
ToHit: -5% tohit for 8.3 seconds, stacks up to 4 times
Regeneration: -10% regeneration for 8.3 seconds, stacks up to 4 times

 

Gravitic
Recharge: -10% recharge for 8.3 seconds, stacks up to 4 times
Movement: -10% jump height, run speed, flying speed, jumping speed for 8.3 seconds, stacks up to 4 times

Recovery: -10% recovery for 8.3 seconds, stacks up to 4 times

 

Paralytic
Defense: -2.5% defense for 8.3 seconds, stacks up to 4 times
Damage: -5% damage for 8.3 seconds, stacks up to 4 times

 

Preemptive
Endurance/Recovery: -1% endurance per second for 4.3 seconds, -5% recovery for 4.3 seconds, stacks up to 4 times
Energy DoT: 13.3863 energy damage per second for 4.3 seconds, stacks up to 8 times

 

Reactive
Resistance: -2.5% damage resistance for 8.3 seconds, stacks up to 4 times
Fire DoT: 13.3863 fire damage per second for 4.3 seconds, stacks up to 8 times

 

Spectral
Immobilize: 4.3 second magnitude 2 immobilize, stacks up to 4 times
Negative DoT: 13.3863 negative damage per second for 4.3 seconds, stacks up to 8 times

 

------------

This is great—and what should go in the “Details” tab of each power, IMO.  

[Scarlet Shocker]

6 hours ago, Peacemoon said:

I am going to try cognitive soon and see how it works. The confuse is low mag and low duration, but will be interesting to see how well it stacks when you’re attacking a lot.

 

Plus my character is psychic themed so will fit nice!

 

 

would the Confuse mag stack with Seeds of Confusion or other confuzzlement powers?

 

 

What I'm taking from this is that many of these "powers" are actually pretty crap and it's barely worth the effort to slot and build them. The only real benefit I see is the level shift that some provide during Incarnate content. It kind of almost feels like a bit of a con - this whole new system but actually it's not that valuable to most players. At least with Judgement and Lore you actually get something you can see, an additional attack, pets etc.

 

I'd say the Alpha slot does seem worth having but the rest seem very "meh" and all rather pointless.

Edited November 18, 2021 by Scarlet Shocker

[KaizenSoze]

11 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

I'd say the Alpha slot does seem worth having but the rest seem very "meh" and all rather pointless.

Interface is the only dog of the group.

 

Judgement especially Ion is ridiculously overpowered.

 

Lore can be very useful for AV or GMs. Honest, they can use all the time, just overkill in most content.

 

Hybrid brings a lot of very good buffs.

[Without_Pause]

Destiny can be a huge patch for some builds, see Rebirth on a build without a heal. My only qualm with Judgement is theme wise for natural characters.

 

[PLVRIZR]

22 hours ago, macskull said:

This is why I use Reactive on a few characters but the rest of the interface procs are so awful that I don't bother.

 

Diamagnetic isn't a bad choice for Melee characters.

[Scarlet Shocker]

4 hours ago, Without_Pause said:

Destiny can be a huge patch for some builds, see Rebirth on a build without a heal. My only qualm with Judgement is theme wise for natural characters.

 

 

I don't know why? If you can have a natural origin character shoot flames or electric bolts from their fingertips then how does judgement differ?

[Scarlet Shocker]

5 hours ago, KaizenSoze said:

 

 

Judgement especially Ion is ridiculously overpowered.

 

 

 

 

Perhaps so, but in my experience, by the time I get there, I've already got a number of pretty good attacks and some good attack chains, plus I'm probably working towards a halfway decent build so it's not exactly necessary by the time I get it. It's a nice to have but it's not what I would consider necessary.

[Coyotedancer]

Reactive Radial on a Thugs Mastermind with Gang War is just silly levels of funny, as your swarm of mundane, nobody street-punks rampage around setting everything in sight on fire with their mighty... baseball bats?! 🤣

 

Honestly, that's why I like Radial Reactive. It's not about the tiny bit of damage or any kind of practical use at all... It's the humor of setting something on fire with an utterly inappropriate-to-fire attack like a baseball bat or an ice blast or a waterspout.

 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2021 by Coyotedancer

[oedipus_tex]

12 hours ago, Peacemoon said:

I am going to try cognitive soon and see how it works. The confuse is low mag and low duration, but will be interesting to see how well it stacks when you’re attacking a lot.

 

Plus my character is psychic themed so will fit nice!

 

 

Cognitive is usually not worth it on anything except an Ice Control player using Arctic Air. In that one very specific context, the Mags can stack meaningfully and result in controlling things that may have rolled lucky on AA, or on bosses. Even then, it's not amazing, just "okay."

 

[Without_Pause]

1 hour ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

 

I don't know why? If you can have a natural origin character shoot flames or electric bolts from their fingertips then how does judgement differ?

I'm not having those be of natural origin. 

[Mezmera]

My go to is Diamagnetic.  As others are pointing out Degen and Reactive are pretty good but everyone runs them anyways so they stack fast.  My builds will have lots of defense so the 100% -tohitt play well with defense builds even if I'm the only one stacking them.  Plus it also does -regen, sure not as good as envenomed dagger but a side benefit of -regen is always welcome.  

[Scarlet Shocker]

On 11/18/2021 at 9:10 PM, Without_Pause said:

I'm not having those be of natural origin. 

 

I don't fathom that, but it is not my place to tell you how to play your game. I just don't get that when you can be anything, you restrict yourself from being anything.

[Peacemoon]

It can be fun to be an ‘ordinary’ person in a world of super heroes, madness and mayhem, and still survive. The natural origin heroes can be the most challenging and fun characters to create and do well with.

[DoctorDitko]

I know it's rough, but the whole Incarnate system is better than it used to be.

2 or 3 passes from the HC Devs and it'll be a cool part of the game.

 

A perspective from the great RTM:

 

 

(May he rest in peace!)

 

 

 

Edited November 21, 2021 by DoctorDitko

[UltraAlt]

12 hours ago, DoctorDitko said:

know it's rough, but the whole Incarnate system is better than it used to be.

2 or 3 passes from the HC Devs and it'll be a cool part of the game.

 

Nothing can save the incarnate system.

 

If you do what needs to be done to fix it, it would no longer be the incarnate system. It would be replacing the $%$@#@% that is the incarnate system.

 

[Peacemoon]

2 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

 

Nothing can save the incarnate system.

 

If you do what needs to be done to fix it, it would no longer be the incarnate system. It would be replacing the $%$@#@% that is the incarnate system.

 

 

You could easily make it a lot better by getting rid of incarnate shards, and reducing the different types of common/uncommon/rare incarnate salvage, so it is more streamlined. Plus better ingame descriptions, and it would help a lot. You don't need to scrap the whole thing, I actually quite like it, but there is a bit of an info barrier for newcomers. 

[drbuzzard]

I use cognitive sometimes simply because I hate the EBs going into unstoppable on the ITF. The psi damage isn't huge, but the baddies are already at low HP so it can speed things up. Otherwise, yeah, it's not all that good. 

 

Interface tends to be the last slot I get around to filling. 

[Riverdusk]

On 11/18/2021 at 1:37 PM, Mezmera said:

My go to is Diamagnetic.  As others are pointing out Degen and Reactive are pretty good but everyone runs them anyways so they stack fast.  My builds will have lots of defense so the 100% -tohitt play well with defense builds even if I'm the only one stacking them.  Plus it also does -regen, sure not as good as envenomed dagger but a side benefit of -regen is always welcome.  

 

Have to say I sometimes do go with Diamagnetic with my MM's, especially the ones that might need an extra bit of defensive help.  They can stack the extra tohit debuff pretty quick.  Necro probably best example as then a lot of their hits are stacking 10% or more tohit debuff per hit.

[UltraAlt]

20 hours ago, Peacemoon said:

You could easily make it a lot better by getting rid of incarnate shards, and reducing the different types of common/uncommon/rare incarnate salvage, so it is more streamlined. Plus better ingame descriptions, and it would help a lot. You don't need to scrap the whole thing, I actually quite like it, but there is a bit of an info barrier for newcomers. 

 

It's like someone saw Final Fantasy's skill tree....

 

 

... and said, oh, yeah, that will keep the players busy ..... what we really need to do to take up more time (because that was the goal around that time to make players grind and P2W) ... let's throw in random salvage that they can't trade or sell and don't make it related to the path that they are taking in the skill tree ...make it random drops ...

 

 

I argue that the Incarnate System is the System for gaining Incarnate/god-like buffs (the grind and complication) and not the Incarnate/god-like buffs themselves.

 

Therefore, if you change the Incarnate system to make it less (intentionally complex and grindy) then you are taking away the L337ism of the system. Because that is what the Incarnate system is L337ism. "I have mastered the complexity of the Incarnate system and grinded my way to goal X! Watch me roar^tm! ... and bow down to my L337iness. Yes. You my kiss my feet now." A method to make die-hard fans of the game that don't want to alt remain active in the game by giving them something to do that appears to extend the length of the game (ake end-game content).

 

It started out as City of Heroes and the Incarnate system makes it City of Gods. I'm playing to be a superhero or adventurer (and rarely a criminal) and not a god incarnate.

 

I'm not going to lie though. I would love to see the City of Jack Kirby Giants expansion.

 

 

 

 

 

[Peacemoon]

16 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

 

It's like someone saw Final Fantasy's skill tree....

 

 

... and said, oh, yeah, that will keep the players busy ..... what we really need to do to take up more time (because that was the goal around that time to make players grind and P2W) ... let's throw in random salvage that they can't trade or sell and don't make it related to the path that they are taking in the skill tree ...make it random drops ...

 

 

I argue that the Incarnate System is the System for gaining Incarnate/god-like buffs (the grind and complication) and not the Incarnate/god-like buffs themselves.

 

Therefore, if you change the Incarnate system to make it less (intentionally complex and grindy) then you are taking away the L337ism of the system. Because that is what the Incarnate system is L337ism. "I have mastered the complexity of the Incarnate system and grinded my way to goal X! Watch me roar^tm! ... and bow down to my L337iness. Yes. You my kiss my feet now." A method to make die-hard fans of the game that don't want to alt remain active in the game by giving them something to do that appears to extend the length of the game (ake end-game content).

 

It started out as City of Heroes and the Incarnate system makes it City of Gods. I'm playing to be a superhero or adventurer (and rarely a criminal) and not a god incarnate.

 

I'm not going to lie though. I would love to see the City of Jack Kirby Giants expansion.

 

 

 

 

 

I don’t think the incarnate system is that complex. I think you just start off on a bad footing because the alpha slot presents you with the incarnate shard recipes by default and it’s not obvious you can scroll down to see the incarnate thread version.

 

That’s why I think if you removed all the shard stuff and just stuck with threads, it would be much simpler. 
Also get rid of the absurd costs of crafting the very rare components, and just stick with empyrean merits as the source for buying them. It get rid of some of the traps people fall into.

[Burk]

On 11/18/2021 at 3:37 PM, Mezmera said:

My go to is Diamagnetic.  As others are pointing out Degen and Reactive are pretty good but everyone runs them anyways so they stack fast.  My builds will have lots of defense so the 100% -tohitt play well with defense builds even if I'm the only one stacking them.  Plus it also does -regen, sure not as good as envenomed dagger but a side benefit of -regen is always welcome.  

 

The -tohit can be okay against normal enemies, but AVs will resist it to the point that it is meaningless. The -regen is pointless against normal enemies and AVs still resist it. It caps at -40% at 4 stacks, a level 50 AV will resist that by 85% bring it down to a measly -6% regen. The only reason envenomed daggers are useful is that they have a massive -250% regen that stacks on itself. After AV resistance, even those are only -37.5% and need to be triple stacked to completely cut off their regen.