Require Two Level 50 Characters to Get XP in AE

[Solarverse]

9 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

AE can be totally removed from the game and it will not serve to improve player competence at all.  As I have said in other threads, I personally have encountered far more people leveling their low level characters who have no clue what they are doing than I do people who are playing known PLed characters.

 

Removing AE would not stop farming either.  People will just go back to farming Council radios or other maps that were used prior to AE being implemented.

 

 

Farms existed long before there was an AE, so calling farming in AE and "exploit" is being melodramatic. 

 

Melodramatic, maybe. But considering that people make these missions strictly for farming and nothing else, I would say the term exploit is accurate. No reason to sugar coat what it is, it's not like the Devs give a damn anyway, so calling it  what it truly is will hardly draw any negative attention to it from the Development team. That's just my opinion.

Edited December 30, 2021 by Solarverse

[A Cat]

1 hour ago, Solarverse said:

I can say this much, I have yet to see anyone in LFG chat request to build or join a team for AE story content, all I ever see is "hitters sitters blah blah blah."

I see non farm AE content get advertised for semi-regularly, though still less than people advertising for AE Farming or begging for a PL. I just did a non-farm PUG AE mission with a team yesterday in fact. Might depend on your shard though. I am on Everlasting, so I assume there would be more people doing doing non-farm AE here. 

 

Personally, I haven't really run into people not knowing how to use their AT's here. The teams I have been on have all been reasonably competent. I have not had to give up on anything yet, though sometimes we have to lower difficulty from +4. No big deal. Maybe I'm just the incompetent one on the team. 

[Six-Six]

@Solarverse you're right. I've only ever seen maybe 1 or 2 AE "content" shouts out of every hundred farm invitations. But I do see them. I think it's more of a closed group or solo thing. I usually go solo, or with a friend at the most so no need to go advertise in LFG. other people I know do the same.

As for content, do a search for Darmian and Nyx for starters (sorry, I'm bad with names so I can't remember the other creators--I have a list somewhere). Those are really good. Or try one of the monthly Dev's Choice -- that's how I got into AE content. Actually, that happened after I was hanging around AE trying to find a farm to sit in when an Architect invited me to try out his/her work in progress and give feedback. That opened my eyes. Been going in regularly less than I'd like, but more and more recently.

[UltraAlt]

9 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

I also still say that farming existed since day one of the game, so to blame AE as the root cause of farming is not accurate. 

 

I didn't blame AE to be the root of farming.  You thought that up as a rebuttal, but it isn't based on what I said.

 

9 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

At least to me, using AE for farming is no different than farming prior to the introduction of AE.

 

Of course, to a farmer, it wouldn't be.

 

9 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

I do remember them trying to ban accounts for power leveling, but that was done before AE as well as I recall.

 

I don't know if banning for power leveling was done before the release of AE. There was power-leveling going on all over the place using the the old mentoring system.

 

Banning was done the first week or so that AE was released. The DEVs caved, and I think they reactivated all the banned accounts. We don't know about banning, but I'm assuming if they reactivated one of the same thing, they reactivated all of them.

 

They DEVs had a post where they stated that they would drop a "40 Ton Ban hammer" on anyone that did it. Might have been "100 ton" but I think it was "40 ton".

After reactivating the accounts, they went back in and deleted all the DEV posts about banning accounts for violating their rules in regard to creating farming missions.

 

9 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

The PI portal missions that people used for farms before AE still exist in game today

 

They made moves to make those less farmable.

They tried to make it easier to trip them so that they would complete.

They also limited the number of targets that tanks could taunt so you couldn't pack 100 warwolves into a dumpster any more. (maybe not one hundred, but so many standing inside of one another that you couldn't count them)

 

9 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

players would just migrate back to those maps and farming/power leveling would go merrily on. 

 

And it would be a lot slower than it is in the AE now. A lot slower.

 

9 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

People are farming all kinds of non-AE maps for defeat badges to unlock accolades and such. 

 

Yes. Players will cheat where they can and when they can. Most of the time they think cheating is okay as long as they can get away with it.

 

 

"Account Actions Taken Today

Today we indefinitely suspended over 800 accounts for egregiously exploiting a bug introduced in Game Update 119. Pending further investigation, we expect to convert most or all of these suspensions to permanent bans in January.

This action is not comprehensive. Also in January, and again pending further investigation, we expect additional accounts to be suspended or permanently banned. We also expect to address at least some of the ill-gotten or even accidental gains for everyone, regardless of suspension or banned status.

We will provide updates as we have them in the new year. No suspension appeals will be entertained." - https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dcuo/index.php?threads/account-actions-taken-today.320085/

[UltraAlt]

9 hours ago, Greycat said:

Farming wasn't the intent of any mission, AE or normal content.

 

You know full well that there is a difference between missions being repeated and missions created in the AE specifically  for farming.

 

Fire farms are created specifically to cheat the system.

You know full well what I'm talking about, and don't act like you don't.

 

[Parabola]

As others have pointed out the problem (imo) with the AE system is the ability to fine tune enemies so they basically can't hurt you. I'm not sure why the original devs left the power selections so freeform back when they were taking steps to address abuse of the system. If you had to select powers in blocks that forced you to have a mixture of damage types, and prevented completely avoiding the usual range of mez and debuffs attached to attacks, then the AE could still be used to tell stories but would be a lot less farmable. Hell, you could get rid of custom enemies altogether and still tell plenty of stories but that would likely be overkill.

[Arbegla]

2 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

Account Actions Taken Today

Today we indefinitely suspended over 800 accounts for egregiously exploiting a bug introduced in Game Update 119. Pending further investigation, we expect to convert most or all of these suspensions to permanent bans in January.

This action is not comprehensive. Also in January, and again pending further investigation, we expect additional accounts to be suspended or permanently banned. We also expect to address at least some of the ill-gotten or even accidental gains for everyone, regardless of suspension or banned status.

We will provide updates as we have them in the new year. No suspension appeals will be entertained." - https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dcuo/index.php?threads/account-actions-taken-today.320085/

 

What does quoting a DCUO dev have to do with City of Heroes?

[Bill Z Bubba]

After soloing a swipe-only/inv scrapper to 50 with nothing but street sweeping and radio missions, and now soloing a normal dark/stone scrapper with nothing but the normal content contacts, to the OP and those that support the idea... /jranger.

[UltraAlt]

3 hours ago, Arbegla said:

What does quoting a DCUO dev have to do with City of Heroes?

 

They are both superhero MMORPGS. Jack Emmert was the developer for both. Both have banned players for "cheating".

 

I don't think the current DEVs would ban anyone for cheating. There really is no point if it is F2P, and there is no monetary interaction at all other than to support the servers to make sure that the game is operational.

Anyone that cheats at this point is just cheating themselves.

 

But if you couldn't figure out the connection ... you can imagine I mean whatever you want and you can take all the offense about it that you want to.

But that's all on you. It isn't on me.

[Bill Z Bubba]

Can't cheat if there ain't no rules.

[ShardWarrior]

6 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

Of course, to a farmer, it wouldn't be.

 

 

To be honest, I stopped reading your reply after this. 

 

As I said, people are farming all kinds of maps for all kinds of things and none of the anti-farm crowd seems to bat an eye.  I seriously doubt that the original Devs intended for "normal" maps to be used to farm for defeat badges, xp or whatever.  

 

Anyway, you go right ahead and label me as one of those evil farmers if that is what makes you feel better, even though you really know nothing about me.   It is more than abundantly clear you are one of those narcissists who steadfastly believe how you define how people should play is the "right way".  From my experience, there is no rational, civil discourse with anyone like this, so good day to you.

 

5 hours ago, Parabola said:

As others have pointed out the problem (imo) with the AE system is the ability to fine tune enemies so they basically can't hurt you.

 

You can build and fine tune characters that essentially cannot be killed by any NPC outside of AE. 

[Parabola]

5 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

 

You can build and fine tune characters that essentially cannot be killed by any NPC outside of AE. 

True. But the important difference is that in the AE you can take the least protective, highest damage armour set on not even the toughest AT and make it functionally immortal by creating enemies that can only attack the thing that armour set is most protected against. And you don't even need to spend a huge amount on a build to do it.

[Greycat]

11 hours ago, Solarverse said:

 

I see this used a lot in defense of AE. However, I would give my left (enter sexual organ here) to see a chart on just how many people actually use it for the content and how many people exploit the hell out of it to Power Level.

I can say this much, I have yet to see anyone in LFG chat request to build or join a team for AE story content, all I ever see is "hitters sitters blah blah blah."

 

As far as this - I'll see advertisements (typically on the weekend) for ... I think it's the 801 series, "these are built to murder you" arcs, and the occasional test run for something.

 

Non-farm content, in my experience, seems most often to be run by SGs to run RP storyarcs, or with small groups that know each other and aren't going to have someone random just want to rush to the end, kill the boss or grab the glowie, and jump to the next mission - they actually want to *see* what's going on and what the author's done. So, no LFG advertising, but talking to each other in SG chat, private channels or Discord to arrange times to run stuff. It flies under the radar.

[A Cat]

I still don't get the issue. Is there a plague of know nothing players somewhere out there? It is anecdotal but that has not been my experience. I'm guessing there aren't many new players period, and only a small number of those would get PL'd to 50 without playing enough to learn the general gist of things. 

[ShardWarrior]

24 minutes ago, Parabola said:

True. But the important difference is that in the AE you can take the least protective, highest damage armour set on not even the toughest AT and make it functionally immortal by creating enemies that can only attack the thing that armour set is most protected against. And you don't even need to spend a huge amount on a build to do it.

 

You were able to build essentially immortal characters prior to IOs and AE ever existing. 

[Bill Z Bubba]

17 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

You were able to build essentially immortal characters prior to IOs and AE ever existing. 

 

But then the nerf bat came with ED and GDN on top of it.

[Parabola]

4 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

 

You were able to build essentially immortal characters prior to IOs and AE ever existing. 

But not ones that can burn their way through a sea of enemies with impunity (at least since i4 or whenever it was). No-one farms with a granite tank. Being just very survivable inside or outside the AE isn't the issue, similarly being just very damaging, the issue is the ability to create a certain combination of character and mission in the AE that results in extreme survivability and extreme damage at the same time and which is far outside what is currently possible anywhere else in the game.

 

Anyway, just what seems obvious to me, I get that others see it differently.

[Bill Z Bubba]

7 minutes ago, Parabola said:

the issue is the ability to create a certain combination of character and mission in the AE

 

But why is it an an issue? Because some people get annoyed at other people for not knowing the game as well as they think they do? So what? Because of the spam in broadcast or general chat?

 

We're ALL here to play out our little power fantasies or just to escape reality. Why does it frelling matter a pair of fetid dingo kidneys if people farm to 50 or solo to 50 or use knockback or whatever else is the gripe of the day?

[Parabola]

2 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

But why is it an an issue?

I don't like it from a game system point of view. To my mind it is a distortion of the risk vs reward mechanism underpinning the game. I don't really care what people get up to but I do like orderly and mechanically satisfying systems!

[UltraAlt]

1 hour ago, ShardWarrior said:

To be honest, I stopped reading your reply after this. 

 

And I stopped there.

[Bill Z Bubba]

Just now, Parabola said:

I don't like it from a game system point of view. To my mind it is a distortion of the risk vs reward mechanism underpinning the game. I don't really care what people get up to but I do like orderly and mechanically satisfying systems!

 

I can grok that. There's TONS of stuff, and more since HC started making changes, from a game/powerset/archetype balance standpoint that drive me up the freakin wall, but in the end, even that is meaningless. A ton of the changes I think should happen won't and in some cases they won't because it would tick off a ton of people even if it's the correct thing to do.

 

Same case here. I'm in the middle of the lane because I utilize both styles of play and if something were to happen that makes it take me even longer to PL an alt to 50 when I'm of the mood to do so, there's other CoH groups out there. By the same token, if I *really* wanted my numerically pure CoH to exist, I could always build my own cluster and put in the time to make it happen.

[Troo]

52 minutes ago, A Cat said:

Is there a plague of know nothing players somewhere out there?

 

Yes

 

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Can't cheat if there ain't no rules.

 

Best thing I read today ^

 

2 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

Anyone that cheats at this point is just cheating themselves.

 

4th best thing I read today ^

 

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by Troo

[Bill Z Bubba]

But here's a side note that occurred to me while running content with my new dark/stone scrapper. This game was designed specifically to drag out the leveling process as much as possible to keep subscriptions around for as long as possible. I saw it in every "go defeat X# of group A" in a different zone and then go talk to so-n-so in yet another zone, blah, blah, blah and then couple that with no movement powers until lvl 14 (or whatever level it was back then,) no double xp, just slog on slog on slog.

 

We don't pay subs anymore. We're all here because a group of people enjoy having a CoH playground to fart about with and share with other like-minded folks. There's just no good reason in pissing off X% of those people because some still get their panties in a wad about farming.

[Troo]

@Apparition I can totally see where you are coming from.

Bad teaming day or just wishing folks wanted to play better?

 

Folks don't have to play the way I do (they likely wouldn't want to anyway). That said;

• Sometimes wished there was a simple test mission to advance to the next 10 or 20 levels. (skill based). {Or at least one from 39 to 40}. 
• Sometimes wished there was a knowledge based activity to advance to the next 10 levels..
• Sometimes wished there was something earned (similar to the having 2x50)..
• Sometimes wished the word "farm" was banned from global chat..
• Sometimes wished folks had to be in the same SG to sidekick..
• It just seems like something small could be done.
• Maybe common custom critter powers could be slightly adjusted to avoid too easy (we have the data)..
• Maybe a time lock on repeated AE mission rewards..
• Maybe Nerf AFK rewards..
• Maybe more situational awareness. Randomize if x happens y is the most effective counter, z is second most effective.

 

Those thoughts typically subside. I head to sirens call and take it out on longbow.

 

..and then there is a 50 asking how to craft an enhancement.

 

Granted it would likely be hard to come up with something fair across ATs and players..

I get that some folks hate gating. But it does seem like less and less is earned in game and folks are taking advantage of that gift.

 

It does get old seeing "fArm M3 !!" global messages and tells from players like SUCK-IT & I-EXPLOIT.COM

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by Troo

[Frozen Burn]

As a player who writes story content in AE and likes to play it, we should not be punished for those who only use AE for farming.  End of story.  

 

Farming will never go away.  People will do it no matter what.  

 

If someone is not happy or concerned about low competency of players coming out of AE farms -- whether they are new to game, an AE PL'ed baby, veterans or whatnot -- we as a community need to help teach them to be better players.  I run into veterans who played this back on live for years who still struggle with basic strategies and concepts.  They just never had  good mentors or a good SG to help guide them.  We all need to help these players and not punish those who use AE for its intended purpose.