Why do people say Poison needs help?

[SentaiLavender]

Maybe this is just me, but I wish there were alternate animations for Poison Trap. It clashes with the theming of the set's other powers. If my character is the type to tactically deploy high-tech gizmos, does it make sense that he also spits and barfs on people? Every other animation in the set seems designed for the concept of a filthy monster, not a gadgeteer. 

[Major_Decoy]

I kind of pretend that the trap is an icy construct on my character.

[Marshal_General]

If you have to get to level 50+ and fully IO'd out and incarnated before a set becomes good then it sucks and is poorly designed.

 

You can IO the crap out of dog poop and claim it is awesome, but its still dog poop.

[tidge]

19 hours ago, Hedgefund said:

If you played Poison w/o VG*, you didn't play Poison.

 

*MMs excluded.

 

I have no complaints about /Poison on my 'Troller, but I found that Venomous Gas wasn't working well for that character. I tried the power as part of the build when first available, and at level 50 (with more slotting/build options) but it simply didn't compliment the playstyle for that character... especially for high-level solo play. This was just my experience, but most of the time I found that I was rarely close enough to enemies to have Venomous Gas do anything, and that if I was going to survive in such close quarters I was going to have to make serious compromises to everything else I wanted the character to do.

 

I don't need the power to change to suit the needs of that character, as I can build all sorts of other characters that can wade solo into close contact with +4x8 spawns. I'm definitely not faulting the players that love the power and leverage it in their own builds.

 

[oedipus_tex]

Neurotoxic Breath has multiple design features that make it a skippable power in my eyes. I didn't verify in game, but if Mids is correct its stats are:

• 30 degree cone, 60ft length
• Duration: 20 seconds
• Effect: -81.25% Run Speed, Recharge (Defender/Controller)
• Cast time: 2.67

 

To its partial credit, it does hit 16 targets and not 10 like some cones. 

 

Devoting 2.67 anim time for a 20 second -Recharge debuff isn't a trade that's worth it in my eyes. I'm also partially convinced some applications -Recharge either do nothing or even make enemies hit harder. Since most AoE attacks have longer recharges than single target attacks, some applications of -Recharge may actually push enemies to favor harder hitting single target attacks. I don't have specific suggestions for this power, but for now it's on the skip list for me.

 

(EDIT: There's also two 25% chances for unenhanceable Mag 2 Holds, one lasting around 4.5 seconds against even level enemies, the other lasting 0.3 seconds. I don't consider either Hold reliable, so they don't factor into my eval of the power). 

Edited February 9, 2022 by oedipus_tex

[arcane]

3 hours ago, Marshal_General said:

If you have to get to level 50+ and fully IO'd out and incarnated before a set becomes good then it sucks and is poorly designed.

 

You can IO the crap out of dog poop and claim it is awesome, but its still dog poop.

All I said was that you can’t realize your *full* potential on *any* character before IO’s and Incarnates. Which is just a simple fact.

 

Poison is certainly no worse than all the other stuff that hasn’t realized its potential.

[arcane]

1 hour ago, oedipus_tex said:

Neurotoxic Breath has multiple design features that make it a skippable power in my eyes. I didn't verify in game, but if Mids is correct its stats are:

• 30 degree cone, 60ft length
• Duration: 20 seconds
• Effect: -81.25% Run Speed, Recharge (Defender/Controller)
• Cast time: 2.67

 

To its partial credit, it does hit 16 targets and not 10 like some cones. 

 

Devoting 2.67 anim time for a 20 second -Recharge debuff isn't a trade that's worth it in my eyes. I'm also partially convinced some applications -Recharge either do nothing or even make enemies hit harder. Since most AoE attacks have longer recharges than single target attacks, some applications of -Recharge may actually push enemies to favor harder hitting single target attacks. I don't have specific suggestions for this power, but for now it's on the skip list for me.

 

(EDIT: There's also two 25% chances for unenhanceable Mag 2 Holds, one lasting around 4.5 seconds against even level enemies, the other lasting 0.3 seconds. I don't consider either Hold reliable, so they don't factor into my eval of the power). 

Since the set is so melee friendly it seems it would make sense to trade off some of the range in exchange for a dramatic increase in the arc. Like 30-40 ft range but 120-150 arc?

[kiramon]

3 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

Neurotoxic Breath has multiple design features that make it a skippable power in my eyes. I didn't verify in game, but if Mids is correct its stats are:

• 30 degree cone, 60ft length
• Duration: 20 seconds
• Effect: -81.25% Run Speed, Recharge (Defender/Controller)
• Cast time: 2.67

 

To its partial credit, it does hit 16 targets and not 10 like some cones. 

 

Devoting 2.67 anim time for a 20 second -Recharge debuff isn't a trade that's worth it in my eyes. I'm also partially convinced some applications -Recharge either do nothing or even make enemies hit harder. Since most AoE attacks have longer recharges than single target attacks, some applications of -Recharge may actually push enemies to favor harder hitting single target attacks. I don't have specific suggestions for this power, but for now it's on the skip list for me.

 

(EDIT: There's also two 25% chances for unenhanceable Mag 2 Holds, one lasting around 4.5 seconds against even level enemies, the other lasting 0.3 seconds. I don't consider either Hold reliable, so they don't factor into my eval of the power). 

 

If they threw a Toxic Damage over time on it that accepted ranged aoe though...

[oedipus_tex]

I think increasing the -Recharge duration from 20 to 60 and an increase in the arc would be a good start for Neuro Breath. I agree that adjusting the cone size would help, as would lowering anim time. 

 

Wouldn't be against this power being partially unresistable as well, so the -Recharge impacts Archvillains. Kinetics already does this with Siphon Speed (-20% Recharge for 60 seconds, stackable) so it's not unheard for there to be unresistable -Recharge, nor does it break AV AI. Poison is supposed to be a hard target debuffer, so it would track. 

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by oedipus_tex

[Naraka]

I remember reading a suggestion for Neurotoxic breath basically having a flag on targets hit that will recast whatever poison debuff they have on them, so it would act as a "refresh" (unfresh?) for your debuffs to save you some effort keeping enemies debuffed.

 

Another was a contagion mechanic where Neurotoxic Breath (and I suppose Venomous Gas) had a chance to cause other poison debuffs to spread when caught in the cone. Since every splash debuff has 2 versions (main and splash), I would assume only splash versions would spread.

[Carnifax]

1 hour ago, kiramon said:

 

If they threw a Toxic Damage over time on it that accepted ranged aoe though...

Just letting it slot Hold sets for proc shenanigans would be something but yes, something call "neurotoxic" which does 0 damage is a bit off.

 

I agree with Oedipus, poison seems like it's 1 power away from being really good and the "gap" in the set between the two early debuffs and the tier 9 is a bit annoying.

 

Don't mind the best power being tier 9 but something nice after level 2 and before level 26 would be nice (poison gas trap can be made real effective and the -recovery gels with sapping nicely).

 

Neuro would be my prime "make it better" candidate.

[Pzn]

20 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

Neurotoxic Breath has multiple design features that make it a skippable power in my eyes. I didn't verify in game, but if Mids is correct its stats are:

• 30 degree cone, 60ft length
• Duration: 20 seconds
• Effect: -81.25% Run Speed, Recharge (Defender/Controller)
• Cast time: 2.67

 

To its partial credit, it does hit 16 targets and not 10 like some cones. 

 

Devoting 2.67 anim time for a 20 second -Recharge debuff isn't a trade that's worth it in my eyes. I'm also partially convinced some applications -Recharge either do nothing or even make enemies hit harder. Since most AoE attacks have longer recharges than single target attacks, some applications of -Recharge may actually push enemies to favor harder hitting single target attacks. I don't have specific suggestions for this power, but for now it's on the skip list for me.

 

(EDIT: There's also two 25% chances for unenhanceable Mag 2 Holds, one lasting around 4.5 seconds against even level enemies, the other lasting 0.3 seconds. I don't consider either Hold reliable, so they don't factor into my eval of the power). 

The debuff being a narrow cone doesn't mesh very well with the t9 being a PBAoE aura either.  If they tweak the power it'd be nice to get a wider arc so you don't need to step back as much.

[RumpyTumskin]

I really like this set. If I could change anything would maybe make some of the buffs have a splash AoE added to them. I like the splash mechanic, makes the set unique. 

[biostem]

1 hour ago, RumpyTumskin said:

I really like this set. If I could change anything would maybe make some of the buffs have a splash AoE added to them. I like the splash mechanic, makes the set unique. 

And an alternative to the spitting animations.  I'd also love to see alkaloid given a small AoE.

[kelika2]

Please keep in mind I generally only play in large teams and hit up WSTs whenever I can

 

Other sets do poisons bit better, Radiation debuffs trump Poison at almost everything it does

its -regen is rather small.  please note -heal is not the same as -regen

the splash debuff % is smaller than the original target.  I wanna say 50% less but im not ganna really check

small radiusssesses

with IO bonuses and such these days, -def rarely matters

lots of useless/blue moon/needs a certain Blast set powers.  the cone -spd and -rech has little to any use, poison trap(poison) was never strong, the hold is 8s duration with a 16s rech.  and im still not sure why the rez makes you puke

And while Venomous Gas is strong I hate waiting for level 32/38 to "complete" a character.  and screw that "splash" sound spam from having it on

 

Actually I think I made a post similar to this before, but about Trick Arrow

[Spaghetti Betty]

5 hours ago, kelika2 said:

 and im still not sure why the rez makes you puke

This is the best part of the rez

[Naraka]

On 2/17/2022 at 10:46 AM, RumpyTumskin said:

I really like this set. If I could change anything would maybe make some of the buffs have a splash AoE added to them. I like the splash mechanic, makes the set unique. 

 

This has been suggested before and I'd agree with it. Specifically, giving Antidote an AoE mez protection to allies would be a great utility for the set. Imparting the benefits of Elixir of Life without the drawbacks to allies in range of the dead party member would be a cool addition for the set. 

[oedipus_tex]

Since of Elixir of Life already has a debuff built into it, it might be on-theme to allow players to use it against enemies.

 

These debuff effects are very debilitating. I don't cast the Poison rezz on allies. An inspiration is probably better. Is there an enemy in game that can hit you with a -30% unresistable -ToHit debuff that lasts 45 seconds? Thanks, "teammate." 😄

 

Edited February 19, 2022 by oedipus_tex

[Major_Decoy]

I thought that debuff had already been removed. I thought all the penalties associated with various revives had been removed.

[oedipus_tex]

3 hours ago, Major_Decoy said:

I thought that debuff had already been removed. I thought all the penalties associated with various revives had been removed.

 

 

Looks like it's still around.

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: I also just realized the Strength and ToHit debuff flexes with archetype modifiers. Defenders debuff your Damage and ToHit more than other ATs. Not technically a bug, but not what I expected.

 

 

 

Here's Controllers:

 

 

 

And Masterminds:

 

 

Edited February 20, 2022 by oedipus_tex

[Xenosone]

Poisons real problem is most of the playerbase plays on -1 x 1 to get the smallest weakest spawns ever and hope thier horribly mismanaged builds and AE baby self can drool on the keyboard correctly really making poison pointless.

[Dahkness]

I’ll take a new heal. I want a self heal >.<. Let the self heal eat away at me over time. Let me have that initial heal so I can solo my AVs with an bouncing hp bar.