Please remove/change "A woman dressed like a Harlot"

[Zappalina]

  "a woman who controlled shadows and dressed like a harlot,"  Edited for clarification: This was the mission it was in  Emperor Cole's Personal Story (Solo Mission) Speak with Praetor Sinclair

 

People - not cool.

 

Edited April 9, 2022 by Zappalina
Clarifying mission name

[arcane]

Is she not dressed like a harlot? Or are you just being “woke”?

 

@PeregrineFalcon can you do the honors here

[Greycat]

That's not the character's name.  It *is,* however, the way Cole's seeing that character. He doesn't see *any* of them in a particularly good light.

 

This - his internal dialog as he looks over what he has left - is an accurate reflection of his opinions. They quite obviously aren't SUPPOSED to be positive. So, no, it doesn't need to change.

[Tiger Shadow]

While the line is coming from the narrator, whoever that may be, the sentence starts "So, Cole thought...".

I'll take Greycat's word that this is consistent with Cole's character., so yeah, leave it as it is.

[PeregrineFalcon]

3 hours ago, Zappalina said:

People - not cool.

How is this not cool?

 

Do harlots not exist? Do they not tend to dress in a specific way? Are you offended by the word itself? What specifically is the problem?

 

Just saying "not cool" is much like "do better". It's a complaint that tells me nothing and doesn't even hint at what I can do to fix the problem.

[AerialAssault]

He later went on to nuke Praetoria so I wouldn't say that thinking bad things about his underlings is his worst take.

[Zappalina]

10 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

How is this not cool?

 

Do harlots not exist? Do they not tend to dress in a specific way? Are you offended by the word itself? What specifically is the problem?

 

Just saying "not cool" is much like "do better". It's a complaint that tells me nothing and doesn't even hint at what I can do to fix the problem.

Before I spend a long time doing an educational piece on why it's not cool. 

 

Just asking you first based on this part of what you typed "It's a complaint that tells me nothing and doesn't even hint at what I can do to fix the problem."

Are you a person that would be fixing this problem? and that is not to be disrespectful. That is literally me wondering if I need to spend a long time doing an educational piece about sex labor, detrimental wording, education on misogyny, and how patriarchal viewpoints contribute to crimes against sex labor workers.  Which I will do if you are the person this needs to be addressed to, if it is not then I will leave it to the people who fix problems to determine whether they want to inquire further about this.  Thanks

[Marbing]

22 minutes ago, Zappalina said:

Before I spend a long time doing an educational piece on why it's not cool. 

 

Just asking you first based on this part of what you typed "It's a complaint that tells me nothing and doesn't even hint at what I can do to fix the problem."

Are you a person that would be fixing this problem? and that is not to be disrespectful. That is literally me wondering if I need to spend a long time doing an educational piece about sex labor, detrimental wording, education on misogyny, and how patriarchal viewpoints contribute to crimes against sex labor workers.  Which I will do if you are the person this needs to be addressed to, if it is not then I will leave it to the people who fix problems to determine whether they want to inquire further about this.  Thanks

Bud... its a work of fiction. It is an expression from a fictional character about how he sees another fictional character. There is no way anyone should ever get offended about what a fictional character says to or about another fictional character. You can have your opinions about that fictional character, but it wasn't said as a commentary about all women or even a specific real woman. It is a fictional woman, and this fictional man thinks she is "dressed like a harlot". It isn't a reflection of the authors true opinions, it is simply a reflection of that fictional man's opinion of a fictional woman. I said fictional a lot to drive home the point that this game isn't real and any content therein can't be considered a statement about real people.

 

 

Edited April 9, 2022 by Marbing
fixed a grammar issue

[PeregrineFalcon]

6 minutes ago, Zappalina said:

Are you a person that would be fixing this problem?

When I was referred to myself I was referring to the hypothetical statement in the second half of my sentence. Sorry if that confused you.

 

So, let's go with your original statement: "not cool." Ok, let's assume that a game dev reads your thread. This statement tells him nothing. It doesn't tell him what the actual problem is and therefore he will not know how to solve it.

 

So no. Please don't do a long educational piece where you write condescendingly to all of us plebes, and attempt to amaze us with your genius. Believe it or not, you're not the only person on this forum who's well aware of all of the issues you've mentioned. Instead, please just answer my original question. What specifically is the problem?

 

And please understand, you're not answering that question for me, but you are answering it for the developer who will probably read this thread.

[Rudra]

While I disagree with Tyrant, as I do on almost everything since that is his purpose in the game apparently, ask yourself this. How many women dress the least bit sexy and are called harlot or worse in the real world? Sorry, but I have to agree with the others. It should stay because it is how Cole views Black Swan. It is not a message to players saying anything about the character or style of dress being inappropriate, it is a reflection of a man so obsessed with controlling what people think and do that he literally has/had a thoughts police.

[The_Warpact]

[Darmian]

So the villain in the piece isn't allowed have, for want of a better phrase, villainous thoughts? Not to mention Cole, even if he wasn't a villain, is supposed to be a man who came of age in the 1920s.

 

Give us some credit here with being able to distinguish between our own thoughts and those of a fictional villain.

Edited April 9, 2022 by Darmian

[Ghost]

It’s Coles opinion, which people are still allowed to have.

[kelika2]

Endorphins.

 

Not even once.

[Luminara]

Fuel prices have doubled in the last couple of months.  There's talk of a new Cold War, and even WW3.  And someone's up in arms over a dystopian dictator's internal monologue in a video game.

 

Personally, seeing number three on that list gives me great comfort.  As long as people are contriving reasons to be offended, they're too distracted to make the serious problems worse and I'm not likely to be vaporized in my sleep by nuclear warheads, starve to death because I spent all of my money putting gas in my bike or have to resort to cutting down my forest to cook.

 

I'm going to go buy some ice cream.  A Dove bar, not one of those shitty $0.50 ice cream sandwiches.  Woo!

[Zappalina]

2 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

When I was referred to myself I was referring to the hypothetical statement in the second half of my sentence. Sorry if that confused you.

 

So, let's go with your original statement: "not cool." Ok, let's assume that a game dev reads your thread. This statement tells him nothing. It doesn't tell him what the actual problem is and therefore he will not know how to solve it.

 

So no. Please don't do a long educational piece where you write condescendingly to all of us plebes, and attempt to amaze us with your genius. Believe it or not, you're not the only person on this forum who's well aware of all of the issues you've mentioned. Instead, please just answer my original question. What specifically is the problem?

 

And please understand, you're not answering that question for me, but you are answering it for the developer who will probably read this thread.

You're insulting & I think you think that I am talking down to you yet I'm not, I put out something I would like changed in the game because it's offensive even based on the current code of conduct, and you are saying this: "  and attempt to amaze us with your genius." I won't engage with you past this comment as it's a passive aggressive insult. Have a good day.

[arcane]

2 hours ago, Zappalina said:

Before I spend a long time doing an educational piece on why it's not cool. 

 

Just asking you first based on this part of what you typed "It's a complaint that tells me nothing and doesn't even hint at what I can do to fix the problem."

Are you a person that would be fixing this problem? and that is not to be disrespectful. That is literally me wondering if I need to spend a long time doing an educational piece about sex labor, detrimental wording, education on misogyny, and how patriarchal viewpoints contribute to crimes against sex labor workers.  Which I will do if you are the person this needs to be addressed to, if it is not then I will leave it to the people who fix problems to determine whether they want to inquire further about this.  Thanks

Respectfully, you're completely embarrassing yourself.

[Luminara]

2 hours ago, Zappalina said:

Before I spend a long time doing an educational piece on why it's not cool. 

 

Just asking you first based on this part of what you typed "It's a complaint that tells me nothing and doesn't even hint at what I can do to fix the problem."

Are you a person that would be fixing this problem? and that is not to be disrespectful. That is literally me wondering if I need to spend a long time doing an educational piece about sex labor, detrimental wording, education on misogyny, and how patriarchal viewpoints contribute to crimes against sex labor workers.  Which I will do if you are the person this needs to be addressed to, if it is not then I will leave it to the people who fix problems to determine whether they want to inquire further about this.  Thanks

 

4 minutes ago, Zappalina said:

You're insulting & I think you think that I am talking down to you yet I'm not, I put out something I would like changed in the game because it's offensive even based on the current code of conduct, and you are saying this: "  and attempt to amaze us with your genius." I won't engage with you past this comment as it's a passive aggressive insult. Have a good day.

 

So, basically, no-one's the "boss of you", you aren't obliged to explain your reason for asking that something be changed, it just needs to be changed because you said so and that's that.

 

Okay, who's taking bets on how long this one remains unlocked?  Anyone?  I have a tenner that says it won't make it to 8 p.m. EST.

[Bionic_Flea]

Question: Can a writer make a misogynistic, patriarchal, conceited, sociopath?

 

If so, then what's the problem?

 

If not, why not?

Edited April 9, 2022 by Bionic_Flea

[arcane]

1 minute ago, Luminara said:

 

 

So, basically, no-one's the "boss of you", you aren't obliged to explain your reason for asking that something be changed, it just needs to be changed because you said so and that's that.

 

Okay, who's taking bets on how long this one remains unlocked?  Anyone?  I have a tenner that says it won't make it to 8 p.m. EST.

She already explained. Her reason is THE PATRIARCHY.

[Tiger Shadow]

1 hour ago, Ghost said:

It’s Coles opinion, which people are still allowed to have.

 

People are allowed to have Cole's opinion? Dude, quit drinking the Praetorian kool-aid.

[InvaderStych]

6 hours ago, Zappalina said:

People - not cool.

 

It is not supposed to be "cool."

 

Praetorian Marcus Cole is a tyrannical dictator and mass murderer who sold out humanity over a bargain he could not keep, and when the final moments came he chose to nuke the populace as his solution to the problem.  He's not supposed to be a model citizen who is up to date on his gender politics.

 

His beliefs, his language, his very existence is supposed to be distasteful.  He is supposed to be portrayed this way because he is the villain.  An existential threat to not only his own world, but the world of "Primal" Earth as well.

 

Seriously.  Of all the things that Tyrant has done during the Praetorian story line, it is the casual misogyny that bothers you? Not the genocide? Not the complete surveillance of the populace?  Not Enriche? Not the actual, literal thought police that invade the minds of the people all day, every day?  Not the mind control?  Nothing that Mother Mayhem gets up to in her asylum at his behest bothers you as much as Cole's personal thoughts on women?

 

Tyrant is not a player and his (imaginary by the way, because he is an imaginary character) thoughts and words are not subject to the CoC to which we as human players with agency and a hopefully some form of actual conscious are beholden.

 

Do you refuse to watch films such as 12 Years A Slave because the slave owners depicted use language considered offensive today?

 

Context is your friend.

 

 

2 hours ago, Zappalina said:

That is literally me wondering if I need to spend a long time doing an educational piece about sex labor, detrimental wording, education on misogyny, and how patriarchal viewpoints contribute to crimes against sex labor workers.

 

And please, do not come into an internet forum offering to "educate" people.  That will never go the way you expect and many of us know a whole hell of a lot more about the issues and people you listed above than you could possibly imagine.  As a point of fact, this little missive is condescending, presumptive, and for some of us .... well let's say that for some of us this is a <T word which as been previously banned by Mods> point due to events in our personal lives.

 

Please stop.

 

Tyrant is supposed to represent the worst of patriarchal control and dominion over the masses by madmen and sociopaths.  You're not supposed to find his beliefs or his language .. comfortable.
 

  

40 minutes ago, Luminara said:

Fuel prices have doubled in the last couple of months.  There's talk of a new Cold War, and even WW3.  And someone's up in arms over a dystopian dictator's internal monologue in a video game.

 

This.  All Day. Every Day. This and only This.

 

Edited April 9, 2022 by InvaderStych

[arcane]

Lumi's post is the most positive part of this thread. I'm thrilled there's still people without real problems.

[Darmian]

5 minutes ago, arcane said:

Lumi's post is the most positive part of this thread. I'm thrilled there's still people without real problems.

Well, MY life is lovely.  It's great being me.  I wake up in the afternoon with a smile on my face and joy in my heart.  Why wouldn't I?  CoX is back!

[Luminara]

3 minutes ago, Darmian said:

CoX is back!