Make super strength great again

[BamBam]

please for the love of statesman, fix super strength.... delete the rage nerf downtime.... rad/fire and spines/fire have been king for long enough. revert the rage debuff and rework handclap into a damage aoe knock up. everyone wants super strength to be good again and at endgame when u are getting 2 or 3 stacks u spend moretime doing 1 damage then u do with the actual damage buff. please and ty. thunderclap and handclap are garbage rework them so they are viable

[biostem]

22 hours ago, BamBam said:

please for the love of statesman, fix super strength.... delete the rage nerf downtime.... rad/fire and spines/fire have been king for long enough. revert the rage debuff and rework handclap into a damage aoe knock up. everyone wants super strength to be good again and at endgame when u are getting 2 or 3 stacks u spend moretime doing 1 damage then u do with the actual damage buff. please and ty. thunderclap and handclap are garbage rework them so they are viable

There are very few buff powers that can provide the kind of constant benefit that rage can.  It'd need some kind of tradeoff - would you be in favor of it not being able to be made perma, or working similar to a build-up power, (short effect duration, longish recharge)?  As for handclap, it seems thematic for it to do knockback, not knock-up;  That's foot stomp's schtick.  I could see it doing some damage, though.  You could always slot it for knockback->knockdown...

Edited May 25, 2022 by biostem

[El D]

As far as I understand, part of the Rage rework was specifically to counter the fact that folks were constantly multi-stacking it - which was pretty busted. Continuing to do that now, when there's an actual cost when Rage crashes, is a choice players make at their own detriment. They had to balance against the benefits of the power somehow.

Edited May 24, 2022 by El D

[ForeverLaxx]

21 minutes ago, BamBam said:

rad/fire and spines/fire have been king for long enough

King? They're ideal for fire farms, which has more to do with fire armor than anything else.

 

Pretty sure Super Strength is more popular than either outside of farms.

[Erratic1]

2 minutes ago, ForeverLaxx said:

Pretty sure Super Strength is more popular than either outside of farms.

 

Perhaps but keep in mind one of the most iconic of superheroes has spawned a legion of Super Strength/Invulnerability characters--effectiveness would not be a high consideration in the draw due to that.

[GM Flints]

Topic moved to appropriate place (Suggestions and Feedback) 

Please don't Rage at the move from General Discussion. 

[BamBam]

nah super strength is garbage fully io in all content. its not a debate. if your worried about the stacking cap it. but doing 1 damage for 5 -15 seconds feels awful. why is it everytime someone posts you get people who dont main the classes we are talking about responding. damage % is already capped and is hard DR'd just get rid of the nerf so super strength feels good again. no body cares if something is 2 strong . some of these other powersets need buffed to match double pbaoe auras. and in pvp its nerfed bc everyone can pretty much get to cap on smashing resis and def. please fix it and make it fun for those of us who have very fond memorys of running around TV farm footstomping. farming was always the endgame stop acting like it isnt. please and ty

[BamBam]

handclap is trash no one has ever picked it lol. u need to be hit to build rage and tankers who are super strength go presence pool and trade handclap for more taunt.

[biostem]

18 minutes ago, BamBam said:

nah super strength is garbage fully io in all content. its not a debate. if your worried about the stacking cap it. but doing 1 damage for 5 -15 seconds feels awful. why is it everytime someone posts you get people who dont main the classes we are talking about responding. damage % is already capped and is hard DR'd just get rid of the nerf so super strength feels good again. no body cares if something is 2 strong . some of these other powersets need buffed to match double pbaoe auras. and in pvp its nerfed bc everyone can pretty much get to cap on smashing resis and def. please fix it and make it fun for those of us who have very fond memorys of running around TV farm footstomping. farming was always the endgame stop acting like it isnt. please and ty

You really need to avoid using absolute statements like "its not a debate", (we are clearly doing so right now), or "no body cares", (at least some folks obviously do), or "farming was always the endgame" - it isn't.

[PeregrineFalcon]

6 minutes ago, BamBam said:

handclap is trash no one has ever picked it lol. u need to be hit to build rage and tankers who are super strength go presence pool and trade handclap for more taunt.

Actually I love Handclap. I have it on my Will/SS Tanker.

 

I have it slotted with a KB > KD IO, and it functions as a second Footstomp. Sure, it doesn't do any damage, but between those two attacks, and Air Sup and Knockout Blow, I spend all of my time throwing the enemies around. It's hilarious!

 

Besides, my friend the Blaster does more than enough damage for the both of us. There's few things funnier than me knocking the whole group down and then watching him light them on fire before they can even get back up.

 

Oh, and I don't farm. Ever.

.

Edited May 24, 2022 by PeregrineFalcon
Added another thought.

[Rudra]

11 minutes ago, BamBam said:

u need to be hit to build rage

Or, you know, hit. If the brute is hit or if the brute hits, the brute builds rage.

[Major_Decoy]

1 hour ago, BamBam said:

revert the rage debuff

What, you want it to go back to a magnitude 16 stun?

[Major_Decoy]

Just now, Rudra said:

Or, you know, hit. If the brute is hit or if the brute hits, the brute builds rage.

That's Fury.

[Rudra]

Sure is. My mistake.

 

However, Rage the power says nothing about needing to be hit to work. Just says you trigger it and it works. I skip Rage on my SS brutes, so am I missing something on Rage that the character needs to be hit for it to build up?

 

Edit: @BamBam said the Rage requires the character to be hit to build up. And the only build up rage I know of is Fury.

Edited May 24, 2022 by Rudra

[PeregrineFalcon]

10 minutes ago, Rudra said:

I skip Rage on my SS brutes, so am I missing something on Rage that the character needs to be hit for it to build up?

So we're clearly being trolled here.

 

This guy is walking along, bait in the water, writing things that clearly aren't true, trying to see if he can reel in a big chunk of forum flamage.

 

Please remember that the last troll poster (Diantane) tricked a lot of people into getting themselves a bunch of warning points and temp bans because of the way the mods protected him.

 

My advice: Don't fall for it. Don't respond. Just walk away.

[Sovera]

Super Strength is one of the strongest sets. This is not gut feelings. We have tests. Tests have been posted. It both clears maps (Trapdoor test) and beats up pylons in pretty top tier echelons.

 

But it does so only when double stacked even when it creates a loop of 10 seconds down and 50 seconds up.

 

So simply asking for a buff won't do.

 

What the set has is clunkyness and unacceptable downsides with the crash. Lets keep in mind it is 'top tier', not the best. Energy Melee has no downsides (the HP loss is tiny and countered by regen alone, and that's if the armor set does not have a heal) on top of phenomenal CC that can stun even AVs, on top of being the top tier damage.

 

So reworking Super Strength to not have Rage's crash should not be a big deal. Handclap definitely needs to do damage though (sonic damage, yes?) because all sets should have an early AoE. A better rework than Fault though since Stone Melee -still- has no early level AoE thanks to Fault being a terrible power even after the rework (yes, it can CC, but the damage is crummy and the accuracy coupled with the recharge compounds how it is a level 50 power-when-all-the-IOs-are-in-place).

 

I would say lower Rage's power to... 50% or something. Two stacked it would grant 100% instead of 160%. Claws goes around with 70% with two stacked Follow-Up.

 

Or rename Rage to Adrenaline and make it a mini-Fury mechanic where the longer the fight goes on the more Adrenaline is pumping and the damage gets higher (I favor this approach since it is proactive, people do not just hang around while their Rage stacks gets higher merely by existing).

 

'Adrenaline' is a good concept, but it can be called whatever. Even 'Seriousness' (but it does not roll off the tongue) because even Super-man or Goku will invariably start the fight with taps and as they realize the enemy is not being defeated they up the strength of their blows. So it's less Hulk raging and more 'oh, okay, you're not stopping, but you're also not dying, so it's safe to hit you harder'.

 

 

 

What a lot of people seem to forget is that these power-ups do not exist in a vacuum. Despite Claws going around with a perpetual 70% damage boost it has not crushed the competition (it's actually a well made set, but tests have not shown it to be a monster and what it does comes more out of being able to slot two -res procs), and this is because the damage of the attacks is slightly lowered to compensate.

 

Same as Super-Strength being mathematically pretty bad without Rage. So walking around with a mini-Fury effect does not have to be OP when the rest of the rest is balanced around it.

 

What really matters is the mechanics of Rage and 10 seconds twiddling thumbs is -bad-. It is not fun. Unfun designs have no place in a -game-.

[battlewraith]

The simpler explanation is that the person simply misspoke and said rage when they meant fury.

 

And please remember that everyone should've protected Diantane--that sweet golden innocent that provoked hilarious ragefests with his honest, hard fought misunderstandings of how this game works. 

[biostem]

3 minutes ago, Sovera said:

Handclap definitely needs to do damage though (sonic damage, yes?)

"Sonic" damage is represented in-game as a combination of smashing and energy damage, so I'd be fine with that.

 

I wonder if rage could be rebuilt into a power that initially applies a self damage debuff, and requires you to actually engage in combat a bit, then it starts to tic up, (though then it may bee too much like a brute's fury).  Is there a way to simply remove the crash but either not allow the rage power to stack or not allow it to benefit from recharge reduction effects at all?

[krj12]

Make it so the rage buff has a cap, so even if you do double stack rage, it wont provide any benefit beyond that cap.    Then lose the crash, problem solved.

[biostem]

7 minutes ago, krj12 said:

Make it so the rage buff has a cap, so even if you do double stack rage, it wont provide any benefit beyond that cap.    Then lose the crash, problem solved.

How you you apply a damage cap that only affects 1 power?  Isn't "damage" a global cap for each character, based upon their AT?  I suppose you could add a check that says "is this character already affected by rage, and if so, do not apply the +dmg component to any subsequent applications of the power"... 

Edited May 25, 2022 by biostem

[Bionic_Flea]

I'm all for buffs, but I don't think this one is needed.  What I do during rage crash is use Judgment, Taunt, temp powers, or heals/buffs/debuffs from my other powersets or pools.

[TheZag]

54 minutes ago, biostem said:

How you you apply a damage cap that only affects 1 power?  Isn't "damage" a global cap for each character, based upon their AT?  I suppose you could add a check that says "is this character already affected by rage, and if so, do not apply the +dmg component to any subsequent applications of the power"... 

 

Its under 'does not stack with itself' or something similarly named.  That would mean it couldnt be double stacked though and that would incur the wrath of many forum goers.

[Major_Decoy]

1 hour ago, krj12 said:

Make it so the rage buff has a cap, so even if you do double stack rage, it wont provide any benefit beyond that cap.    Then lose the crash, problem solved.

The last fix proposed by the developers was "You only get the crash if it's double stacked" if I remember correctly.

 

Yes:

 

Quote

 

Rage [Experimental change]

• Rage will now only crash if stacked. If the power is stacked, crashes will occur at every expiration until it expires completely.
• Rage crash has been changed to 10 seconds of:
  • -999% damage irresistible
  • -10 defense irresistible
  • -20% resist irresistible
  • -20% elusiveness irresistible
• The endurance crash has been removed, the power now instead drains 25 endurance on activation.

 

[Rudra]

Is that current active, in testing, or still only a proposal?

[Major_Decoy]

It was an abandoned proposal. People hated the change. Well, some people hated it. What I recall from the thread was basically "If you're going to change how Rage works, you kind of need to change how Super Strength works"

 

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by Major_Decoy
Link added