Whip

[Bojutsu]

Hello.

The Demon Summoning Mastermind gets a whip and three whip attacks. As far as I know, this is the only power set/power pool that has a whip.

I know this must have been asked a lot before, but does anyone have any insight on the possibility of a full whip power set?

Thank you!

 

Global handle Bojutsu

most characters on Excelsior

 

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by Bojutsu

[TheZag]

If all the powers use the same 3 animations.  Build up and taunt could cover 2 but that leaves 4 more powers to animate.  And the whip isnt a rope that swings around as a physics object,  the whole thing is an animation and probably not an easy one.

 

I would love to have the whip set as a stand alone but im thinking its not likely due to the amount of new animations that would be required.

[Techwright]

2 hours ago, Bojutsu said:

... the possibility of a full whip power set?

 

[Ghost]

I’m thinking Whip and Wind Control will come out at the same time

[biostem]

If I'm looking at things correctly, there are 4 whip animations; corruption, lash, crack whip, and hell on earth.  If we then add some sort of thematic click self-buff or non-whip-animation-requiring power, then we got ourselves a power pool, which would be available to everyone!  To that end, here's my suggestion:

 

1. Whip Strike - Uses corruption's animation, only without the projectile, (thus it'd only have the same range as the other whip power - about 20' IIRC).  Deals lethal damage with a small chance to knock down the target.

 

2. Lash - As per the same-named power, only dealing lethal damage, with a small chance of knocking the target down.

 

3. Crack Whip - Again, per the one found in demon summoning, only dealing lethal damage, with a small chance to knock down all targets caught in the cone.

 

4. Entangling Whip - Uses the hell on earth animation, deals smashing damage, applies a movement speed and jumping debuff, while also applying a mag 2 hold to the target.

 

5. Empowered Whips - Similar to dual pistol's swap ammo ability, this would give you 2 mutually exclusive toggles, which alter how the other whip powers work.  Those would be:

  A) Flaming Whip - Adds fire damage and a DoT component, but you lose the knockdown effect.  Entanging whip would lose the hold effect. (A fear effect may also be cool here, but it may be too good)

  B) Electro-Whip - Adds energy damage, some end drain, and a chance to stun the target, instead of the knockdowns.  Entanging whip would lose the hold effect.

Edited May 26, 2022 by biostem

[Bojutsu]

Thanks for another great reply, biostem. 

 

Very thoughtful, creative and fun.

 

 

[Xenosone]

Except id spend all day in Kr whipping hellions and deathskulls and my floor would become very sticky. From all the sodas id spill. Yes, sodas.

Ill be in my bunk

[El D]

As fun as a full Whip-based powerset would be (seriously, I've got multiple concepts for one), there's a reason the Live devs only made a few powers for it in Demon Summoning; the game engine doesn't really support 'flexible' animations like that. That's why the whip itself is just Fire particle effects, rather than an actual wielded weapon. The coiling/uncoiling and the dynamic motion of an actual whip isn't something CoH's engine can do - same with stretching powers and grappling sets. It'd take an excessively massive number of tweaks and kludges (or an outright complete overhaul) to even get the engine in a place to support making that set, let alone the time to actually develope/implement it. x.x

Edited May 26, 2022 by El D

[High_Beam]

What would be super fun would be to make it a melee set, like a long armed melee set instead of lashing out 40 feet or more its like ten feet or so.   It would be a weird Seksi melee set that I would build a dozen alts using.  Think about it, the taunt would be like your whip wrapping around the target dudes neck all get over here like.  PBAoE Whirling Whip.   I am literally losing my mind right now imagining how fun that would be.

[Greycat]

1 hour ago, El D said:

As fun as a full Whip-based powerset would be (seriously, I've got multiple concepts for one), there's a reason the Live devs only made a few powers for it in Demon Summoning; the game engine doesn't really support 'flexible' animations like that. That's why the whip itself is just Fire particle effects, rather than an actual wielded weapon. The coiling/uncoiling and the dynamic motion of an actual whip isn't something CoH's engine can do - same with stretching powers and grappling sets. It'd take an excessively massive number of tweaks and kludges (or an outright complete overhaul) to even get the engine in a place to support making that set, let alone the time to actually develope/implement it. x.x

 

Plus they said creating those few animations/powers for Demons was as much work as making an entire set.  So...

[Mezmera]

I'm just going to put this out there right now.  If ANYONE should be getting a Whip set first it better be Dom's, the rest of you can wait on the hand-me-downs.  For one it makes the most thematic sense for Dom's to have it, also how many more assault combinations do the rest of the AT's need to keep getting?  Plus how long has this been on the wishlist?  I know Dom's have been begging for this since live.  

 

You jokers can wait on this one.  I'm just surprised Blasters haven't already gotten this powerset by now.

[DougGraves]

Where there's a whip - there's a way

[El D]

17 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

I'm just going to put this out there right now.  If ANYONE should be getting a Whip set first it better be Dom's, the rest of you can wait on the hand-me-downs.  For one it makes the most thematic sense for Dom's to have it, also how many more assault combinations do the rest of the AT's need to keep getting?  Plus how long has this been on the wishlist?  I know Dom's have been begging for this since live.  

 

You jokers can wait on this one.  I'm just surprised Blasters haven't already gotten this powerset by now.

 

Actually, thinking about it...

 

There are enough whip animations from Demon Summoning that combining them with a few tweaked Fiery Assault animations could make for a solid Demonic Assault set. I'm pretty sure some of the Demon MM pets have their own variant animations already for 'demonic fire' ranged attacks, too.

 

Still not a full 'whip' set - or a martial/weapon-based Assault set - but it's probably the closest we could possibly get.

[biostem]

1 hour ago, El D said:

Actually, thinking about it...

 

There are enough whip animations from Demon Summoning that combining them with a few tweaked Fiery Assault animations could make for a solid Demonic Assault set. I'm pretty sure some of the Demon MM pets have their own variant animations already for 'demonic fire' ranged attacks, too.

 

Still not a full 'whip' set - or a martial/weapon-based Assault set - but it's probably the closest we could possibly get.

 

I would rather see the animations used, but made into lethal damage - possible mixing in some pistol attacks, to give us a real "high adventure" assault set.  Then you could stick to just the whip attacks if you want to go the dominatrix route, or include the pistol attacks for a more Indiana Jones vibe...

Edited May 26, 2022 by biostem

[Techwright]

19 hours ago, biostem said:

5. Empowered Whips - Similar to dual pistol's swap ammo ability, this would give you 2 mutually exclusive toggles, which alter how the other whip powers work.  Those would be:

  A) Flaming Whip - Adds fire damage and a DoT component, but you lose the knockdown effect.  Entanging whip would lose the hold effect. (A fear effect may also be cool here, but it may be too good)

  B) Electro-Whip - Adds energy damage, some end drain, and a chance to stun the target, instead of the knockdowns.  Entanging whip would lose the hold effect.

See the problem there is that folks like me would not want fire or electricity.  I was thinking when I first saw the thread that a chain whip channeling ice powers would be nice.  I've even got a name for it (no, not sharing).  But then you'd have your water benders wanting a whip made from water and channeling water powers, radiation would want...yadda, yadda...

[merrypessimist]

7 hours ago, Greycat said:

 

Plus they said creating those few animations/powers for Demons was as much work as making an entire set.  So...

 

Three entire sets, as I recall.

[Troo]

On 5/26/2022 at 9:32 AM, High_Beam said:

What would be super fun would be to make it a melee set, like a long armed melee set instead of lashing out 40 feet or more its like ten feet or so.   It would be a weird Seksi melee set that I would build a dozen alts using.  Think about it, the taunt would be like your whip wrapping around the target dudes neck all get over here like.  PBAoE Whirling Whip.   I am literally losing my mind right now imagining how fun that would be.

 

Of course it would be a melee set a la Katana, Ninja Blade, Broad Sword, Staff, etc.. Maybe including a cone with a small distance or single target like Serpents Reach (40').

 

Realistically, there are animations available from various sets that could be used/repurposed. Numbers would simply need to be associated with them. It simply takes the will to do the work.

[TrelNargil]

On 5/26/2022 at 1:14 PM, El D said:

 

Actually, thinking about it...

 

There are enough whip animations from Demon Summoning that combining them with a few tweaked Fiery Assault animations could make for a solid Demonic Assault set. I'm pretty sure some of the Demon MM pets have their own variant animations already for 'demonic fire' ranged attacks, too.

 

Still not a full 'whip' set - or a martial/weapon-based Assault set - but it's probably the closest we could possibly get.

 

   Ok, I was going to just let this slide and not respond to this thread at all, but I am afraid that you are actually wrong about this. I know of one specific shard (yes, I said SHARD, not server) that already has a Whip power set created, and it not only works great, but is fun as hell. I will not name the shard in question as that might be a bit bad taste (if you want to know, just send me a IM asking me), but I will tell you that this Whip set is called (I believe) - Psi Whip (or blade). The whips ALL animate smoothly, have different effects, and get this... some even create short lasting Psi Blade "pets" that will attack any nearby foe.

   However as it is all psi based, with a smattering of fire damage thrown in (if I remember correctly), I am not sure how effective it would be in the late game. But the point is, a Whip set can be created, as it has already been done so before, and worked out just fine without any creator ripping his/her hair out in frustration lol. Of course, as this cool power set has already been created on another shard, and we all know that the Homecomming team sorta dislikes "duplicating" other shard's work, I wouldn't hold my breath in any such power set ever coming here (including pet customization too, but that is a whole another topic lol). So sorry guys, great idea & wish; just not gonna happen is all...

 

Peace...

[El D]

1 hour ago, TrelNargil said:

 

   Ok, I was going to just let this slide and not respond to this thread at all, but I am afraid that you are actually wrong about this. I know of one specific shard (yes, I said SHARD, not server) that already has a Whip power set created, and it not only works great, but is fun as hell. I will not name the shard in question as that might be a bit bad taste (if you want to know, just send me a IM asking me), but I will tell you that this Whip set is called (I believe) - Psi Whip (or blade). The whips ALL animate smoothly, have different effects, and get this... some even create short lasting Psi Blade "pets" that will attack any nearby foe.

   However as it is all psi based, with a smattering of fire damage thrown in (if I remember correctly), I am not sure how effective it would be in the late game. But the point is, a Whip set can be created, as it has already been done so before, and worked out just fine without any creator ripping his/her hair out in frustration lol. Of course, as this cool power set has already been created on another shard, and we all know that the Homecomming team sorta dislikes "duplicating" other shard's work, I wouldn't hold my breath in any such power set ever coming here (including pet customization too, but that is a whole another topic lol). So sorry guys, great idea & wish; just not gonna happen is all...

 

Peace...

 

I'm pretty certain it's less that Homecoming dislikes 'duplicating other shard's work' and more that they prefer a fully realized solution, rather than kludging together FX from various powersets into a 'new' powerset. Which is, admittedly, is exactly what my post called for but unfortunately that's one of the only two options when it comes to making a Whip set - either other powers of similar theme are included to pad out the lack of actual Whip-based abilities, or there's heavy re-use of the existing Whip animations to fill 8-9 slots, which is its own different brand of 'not ideal.' In this instance it's less 'copying someone else's work' and more 'this is literally the only way to make this particular idea functional as a full set.'

 

Having looked up the set you mentioned, I'll grant that whatever Whip set Homecoming goes for (if they ever do) it likely won't function like Psychokinetic Assault on ThunderSpy - the 'summons bonus fire swords' aspect alone, while interesting, poses a ton of balance issues. However, @biostem's idea of making it Lethal damage and including some gun attacks as a sort of Indiana Jones-esque martial set could work as a different sort of mash-up. Depends on how easily the Whip FX could be tweaked to look normal/lose the fiery bits, since the Whip itself isn't an actual model. 

Edited June 8, 2022 by El D

[TrelNargil]

   True, and I did not even think of the models themselves. Maybe have a variety of ones available, from energy based ones, to the more physical type ones that Indiana uses (as there are actually a variety of real life whips available - far more then I knew existed). But of course, creating such models would take a very long time to do, not even including the "new" animations the HC team might want to add. In either case, while a great idea and wish list as I said before, I don't see it ever being created & implemented as there are other more pressing priorities in the game I am sure. Too bad though, just the same (especially about pet customization)...

 

Peace...

 

P.S: And thank you @El D for taking the time to check out the set and telling the name of it as well; I totally spaced on it, though it is a very cool whip set to play. 🙂 

[El D]

50 minutes ago, TrelNargil said:

   True, and I did not even think of the models themselves. Maybe have a variety of ones available, from energy based ones, to the more physical type ones that Indiana uses (as there are actually a variety of real life whips available - far more then I knew existed). But of course, creating such models would take a very long time to do, not even including the "new" animations the HC team might want to add. In either case, while a great idea and wish list as I said before, I don't see it ever being created & implemented as there are other more pressing priorities in the game I am sure. Too bad though, just the same (especially about pet customization)...

 

Peace...

 

P.S: And thank you @El D for taking the time to check out the set and telling the name of it as well; I totally spaced on it, though it is a very cool whip set to play. 🙂 

 

Oh yeah, all this is definitely more of a 'Would be sweet'-type suggestion thread. xD Some mountains are just too big to climb when you don't have the time/gear/personnel available (and are working with extremely outdated equipment in the first place <looks at CoH's engine>). Still, that doesn't mean you can't imagine the view from the summit.

 

And no problem! I know there's some animosity that gets throw around through the wider CoH community, but IMO part of the fun has always been appreciating the cool idea some other player came up with. So long as it allows people to keep enjoying the game, what's not to like?

[TrelNargil]

   Exactly! Wise words...

 

Peace...

[ForeverLaxx]

I've been saying for a long time that if it were to be made into its own set, it would likely be something akin to a "Hellfire Assault" set for Dominators. There are 4 animations they can recycle, and the rest can be filled with appropriate fire melee/ranged options with tweaked fire effects and damage types to suit a "hellfire" theme.

 

Would that be perfect for everyone? Of course not, but it would at least give people (like me) who take Demon Summoning purely for whip attacks a set that actually works for that purpose.

Edited June 9, 2022 by ForeverLaxx

[Chance Jackson]

Take the whip attacks we got add build up + taunt & an offhand punch as well as a kick & you got yourself a classic adventurer melee set

[Player2]

I know people will balk at this, but what about... reusing the animations that exist?  As keeps being pointed out, 9 powers minus 2 for Build Up and Taunt is 7 powers for a set... we have 4 animations already, so reuse a couple of the basic attacks for more powerful attacks... and maybe find some non-whip attack/effect to round out the set.  I don't think anyone would complain about reusing animations on a couple of straightforward attacks because we'd all be thrilled just to have a whip set.