issue 27 Focused Feedback: Symphony Control

[High_Beam]

On 7/12/2022 at 11:24 PM, Nemu said:

Focusing on power names:

 

Confounding chant could be changed to Jarring Tritone. Confounding aligns more with confusion by definition and this power stuns. Traditionally tritones were considered very dissonant and unpleasant. One could draw a correlation that it has a stunning effect back in the days when people heard it. Even today most emergency vehicle sirens use tritones to alert people.

 

If I read impassioned serenade I'd think it's a buff or something. Entrancing Serenade should align more with the confuse and "getting stuff to fight for you" nature of the power.

 

Chords of despair sounds so... negative, how about Captivating Encore? Captivating aligns a bit more with the idea that the power holds, chords of despair makes me think it's more fear related.

Yeah to add to this, Symphony Control sounds clumsy (see what I did there, SOUNDS clumsy), maybe Symphonic Control.  

 

Initial testing on server also has me trying to figure out what noise the noises I am making are supposed to be because they definitely don't sound Symphony (or Symphonic), or even marginally musical . . . more like mumble-rap meets death-metal growl but from a Tenor.  I will continue testing to get a feel on what the sounds are and if they get better with other powers as my initial was on playability at the 1-20 level range 

[Ethereal Star]

I think it's already been brought up, but I want to mention it as well!

I'd love if the sonic assault could be similar thematically to the symphonic control, in having effects and sounds like the siren npcs do.  I also want to mention that this is a powerset I've wanted for months, if not years--thank you so much for including symphonic control! 

 

I am not sure if everyone would want the "symphonic assault" but I know I do and I'd regret it if I did not mention that specifically!  I don't know whether or not this is even feasible, but... if it is, please consider it!

 

Edit: I'm sorry, I didn't realize there was a separate thread for sonic assault... and I already posted this in the wrong place already, and there's no way for me to really delete this.  I apologize for the confusion!

Edited July 15, 2022 by Ethereal Star

[ExeErdna]

7 hours ago, Mezmera said:

 

Yeah I realized that today after playing symph again.  Kinda neat but not sure how I feel about the damage pause.  

 

Yeah I get it, since this control setup is very aggressive and meant to be played not as blastery like Grav yet more on pace like Fire.


To be more on topic,  from my tests with both Sympy/Kin and Sonic. The ST confusion is thematic yet doesn't really fit, if it was a Stun it'll be fine, as of now it being a Confuse it really doesn't work. Yet that's just my own feelings about it. This is why Symph doesn't overwrite Mind. Mind you want the confusion because you lack an Immo. So Confusions and Sleep is how I setup the field. With Symph you setup with the AOE Sleep as well yet with it's interesting interaction with the AOE Stun allows to be more aggressive.

[Troo]

Cones and directional nature fit conceptually
Lots of slotting options with the layered controls

 

Issue:

Confounding Chat visual looks a bit misplaced on huge & male, while good on female.

   

[arcane]

I love the theme way more than Sonic pls don’t change it 🙂

[Troo]

 Does the following affect other players knockup like Mass Levitate?

 

Aria of

10000.00%% resistance to knockup for 15.00s on target Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable

 

 

Also, the sounds can be a bit harsh/low. Nicely neutral between genders though.

 

Edited July 15, 2022 by Troo

[Toxurion]

22 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

Cones: So, cones are this set's thing, and that is fine. Thing is, Dominators as a whole don't play great with cones. 

 

Great write up for the set,

 

Personally, my play style for Doms doesn't allow for cones. I typically choose melee focused sets and prefer PBAoE powers as its a bit of a rush being able to hold down the mob while standing in the middle : ) The positioning required for a PBAoE and a cone is vastly different, so I choose to skip cones. 

 

I love the look of the set so far, might try a ranged Dom out.

[Captain Powerhouse]

On 7/14/2022 at 10:17 AM, Arcadio said:

It seems like the powers being granted to the reverberant benefit from your character's slotting of that power. But they also benefit from the slotting in the actual reverberant, since procs I don't have slotted elsewhere are activating on its attacks, so I'm assuming it would also be further modified by other types of enhancements. Is this intended?

 

Reverberant's powers do not benefit from the slots in the player power.

[Arcadio]

3 minutes ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

Reverberant's powers do not benefit from the slots in the player power.

I see, I said that because it looked like the proc chance was based on the recharge of the player power. But I haven't test that too too thoroughly. 

[Captain Powerhouse]

15 minutes ago, Arcadio said:

I see, I said that because it looked like the proc chance was based on the recharge of the player power.

 

Reverberant versions of the powers have lower recharge rates than the player ones, since their recharge cant be enhanced. They have many other differences. They are just echoes, not copies.

 

 

[Troo]

Reverberant is very interesting.

[Tiger Shadow]

3 hours ago, Toxurion said:

Personally, my play style for Doms doesn't allow for cones. I typically choose melee focused sets and prefer PBAoE powers as its a bit of a rush being able to hold down the mob while standing in the middle : ) The positioning required for a PBAoE and a cone is vastly different, so I choose to skip cones. 

 

Does the Dominator version really have to be cones? I don't see why it can't be different from the Controller version.

 

ETA: This set doesn't look like it was made with Dominators in mind, it looks like it was made for Controllers and ported to Dominators as an afterthought.

Edited July 15, 2022 by Tiger Shadow
clarification

[Nemu]

3 hours ago, Troo said:

Cones and directional nature fit conceptually
Lots of slotting options with the layered controls

 

Issue:

Confounding Chat visual looks a bit misplaced on huge & male, while good on female.

   

Is it me or does the power preview not play sound at character creation? Am I missing something? I usually don't play with sound on so never noticed this until now.

[ScarySai]

2 hours ago, Tiger Shadow said:

 

Does the Dominator version really have to be cones? I don't see why it can't be different from the Controller version.

 

ETA: This set doesn't look like it was made with Dominators in mind, it looks like it was made for Controllers and ported to Dominators as an afterthought.

 

It works fine for dominator, honestly. It plays like dark control.

[Mezmera]

All in all I think this is a well thought out set.  All of the usual powers are there and that it even has a confuse power sets it up as a cut above and I even like that it does damage, confuses are real strong regardless and I see the intent behind not wanting any extra stealth confusing tactics.  

 

Confounding Chant's soft control with that strong damage cone is the bread and butter of the set.  Symphony does feel a little sluggish but that's probably for the best with how good of a set it is.  The set has a great mix of soft control with some real nice damage potential and a little bit of hard control for fallback.  I also like how the pet interacts in the fight.  

 

About the only thing I'd say that could use changed is Lullaby.  It is a neat power with that -20% damage but that's all I'm really going to use it for since it's best to lead in with those cones and seeing how you're starting in the more ideal position to start engaging the sleep is one you'll want to include in your alpha.  That it pauses the damage from your other control I find that less than ideal.  I could see the sleep aspect of the power getting better functional use as a pbaoe even if it does still pause your damage and could keep that -20% damage debuff.  

 

It's not so OP that I will feel dirty playing it.  Cool set I will have one of these.  

[TygerDarkstorm]

1 hour ago, ScarySai said:

 

It works fine for dominator, honestly. It plays like dark control.

I've been practicing jousting on quite a few different AT's lately, so the cones on this set for dom's don't bother me as well, though I'd be tempted to pair it with /fire for anyone wanting to play it more at range.

 

My own thoughts so far: I rolled up a Symphony/Sonic Controller (saw someone here mention the combo and thought it sounded interesting), then boosted her to 40. I'm not much of a Mids person and don't really know how to make builds or anything, so assigning slots to powers is usually something of a guessing game for me, but I tried to put some thought into it, and even spent time looking through the IO sets to see what seemed like it would work, what set bonuses might be nice, etc. That being said, anyone have any good guesses for where to put the controller ATO's in this set? I have one of them in Aria and one in Confounding Chant, not sure if this is optimal.

 

Anyway, I've never done any of the Cim missions before (and I also wanted to see if you can get to Cim from Ouro now, but I couldn't figure out how to do it), so I went out there, put my settings to +0/x4 (no bosses engaged yet) just to get a feel for things and ran Daedalus' first mish. Wasn't expecting Arachnos (again, never done these that I can remember), but between the Reverberant, the Symph powerset, /Sonic's debuffs/buffs, and potentially even some of my own slotting, they weren't much trouble. This powerset combo is a joy to play together. Reverb is a surprisingly tanky little dude, and since he likes to duck into melee range, is a good candidate for the -res hula hoop. Does he taunt? I swear I heard him make the taunt sound, but maybe I'm just crazy or it was the Arachnos. Like others have said, he seems to sometimes be a little odd when it comes to combat. Sometimes he's quite aggressive and I'd be fending off 2 groups, other times it was like he would just get tired of fighting and in mid-combat, just come floating back to my side and not reengage until I got on top of the mob.

Even with his oft crazy pulling, he tanked a group of Arachnos on his own while I picked off a second on one of the times we aggroed two groups.

 

I actually fully enjoy the different types of controls available in Symphony. I found myself really looking to play control on the field. Sometimes I'd fire off the sleep so I could more carefully maneuver a certain mob or something. I also enjoyed opening with Chords of Despair and then slapping a procc'd Liquefy beneath the group, which would get Reverb going in to tank while I plied those who maybe weren't affected with other means of control. It became a fun game of single target and balancing out which control to use when (stun, fear, or sleep, as I opted to skip the confuse power). The damage on the set feels nice without being too overpowered. I am also impressed with the range and width of the cones--you can pretty much capture an entire group with the cones, and I even blasted a couple of them at a mob that was in my face and was pleasantly surprised to also hit part of the group behind it. I love the visuals and the sounds (Chords of Despair sounding a bit like a guitar riff is awesome--I think that's what it was anyway; I keep my sounds turned down low in the game). Reverb seems a bit hard to see sometimes, though my sonic buffs helped make him more noticeable. Oh, and I treated my single target hold power more like a blast and frankenslotted it with procs; seems to be working, it felt like it was hitting pretty hard.

 

I realize my feedback is not based on bleeding edge scenarios or the way some of the better players here play the game, but I thought others who play more like me (more casual, easier difficulties, aren't necessarily great at building/don't care about min/maxing) might be interested in how some of these new changes feel. I hope the combo will feel good even leveling up from the low levels as I intend to create it on live as well once the patch hits. Also want to try Symphony on a dominator as well; tried it with /martial and hated it, but I plopped it at level 30, let the auto-enhance feature slot it, and went to Croatoa and couldn't kill anything. So back to the drawing board there and see if I can't hash out my mistakes.

[Troo]

10 hours ago, Nemu said:

Is it me or does the power preview not play sound at character creation? Am I missing something? I usually don't play with sound on so never noticed this until now.

 

confirmed. no powers sfx.

[Marshal_General]

Do any sets make sound during creation? If so, then I have never heard it.

[ExeErdna]

11 hours ago, TygerDarkstorm said:

I've been practicing jousting on quite a few different AT's lately, so the cones on this set for dom's don't bother me as well, though I'd be tempted to pair it with /fire for anyone wanting to play it more at range.

 

My own thoughts so far: I rolled up a Symphony/Sonic Controller (saw someone here mention the combo and thought it sounded interesting), then boosted her to 40. I'm not much of a Mids person and don't really know how to make builds or anything, so assigning slots to powers is usually something of a guessing game for me, but I tried to put some thought into it, and even spent time looking through the IO sets to see what seemed like it would work, what set bonuses might be nice, etc. That being said, anyone have any good guesses for where to put the controller ATO's in this set? I have one of them in Aria and one in Confounding Chant, not sure if this is optimal.

 

Anyway, I've never done any of the Cim missions before (and I also wanted to see if you can get to Cim from Ouro now, but I couldn't figure out how to do it), so I went out there, put my settings to +0/x4 (no bosses engaged yet) just to get a feel for things and ran Daedalus' first mish. Wasn't expecting Arachnos (again, never done these that I can remember), but between the Reverberant, the Symph powerset, /Sonic's debuffs/buffs, and potentially even some of my own slotting, they weren't much trouble. This powerset combo is a joy to play together. Reverb is a surprisingly tanky little dude, and since he likes to duck into melee range, is a good candidate for the -res hula hoop. Does he taunt? I swear I heard him make the taunt sound, but maybe I'm just crazy or it was the Arachnos. Like others have said, he seems to sometimes be a little odd when it comes to combat. Sometimes he's quite aggressive and I'd be fending off 2 groups, other times it was like he would just get tired of fighting and in mid-combat, just come floating back to my side and not reengage until I got on top of the mob.

Even with his oft crazy pulling, he tanked a group of Arachnos on his own while I picked off a second on one of the times we aggroed two groups.

 

I actually fully enjoy the different types of controls available in Symphony. I found myself really looking to play control on the field. Sometimes I'd fire off the sleep so I could more carefully maneuver a certain mob or something. I also enjoyed opening with Chords of Despair and then slapping a procc'd Liquefy beneath the group, which would get Reverb going in to tank while I plied those who maybe weren't affected with other means of control. It became a fun game of single target and balancing out which control to use when (stun, fear, or sleep, as I opted to skip the confuse power). The damage on the set feels nice without being too overpowered. I am also impressed with the range and width of the cones--you can pretty much capture an entire group with the cones, and I even blasted a couple of them at a mob that was in my face and was pleasantly surprised to also hit part of the group behind it. I love the visuals and the sounds (Chords of Despair sounding a bit like a guitar riff is awesome--I think that's what it was anyway; I keep my sounds turned down low in the game). Reverb seems a bit hard to see sometimes, though my sonic buffs helped make him more noticeable. Oh, and I treated my single target hold power more like a blast and frankenslotted it with procs; seems to be working, it felt like it was hitting pretty hard.

 

I realize my feedback is not based on bleeding edge scenarios or the way some of the better players here play the game, but I thought others who play more like me (more casual, easier difficulties, aren't necessarily great at building/don't care about min/maxing) might be interested in how some of these new changes feel. I hope the combo will feel good even leveling up from the low levels as I intend to create it on live as well once the patch hits. Also want to try Symphony on a dominator as well; tried it with /martial and hated it, but I plopped it at level 30, let the auto-enhance feature slot it, and went to Croatoa and couldn't kill anything. So back to the drawing board there and see if I can't hash out my mistakes.

That's what I was thinking when I rolled up Sonic with Symph it just works, If you want to kick back and simply play that pair is a great time.

Bleeding edge to me with Symph might be rolling it with Thermal, since will Forge bring up Reverb's echos to be more potent than what I'm able to do damage wise. It'll be a more busy setup. Even though I still gotta test it's interactions with Storm.

Elec would be decent but busy, Rad and Nature might be the hardest pairings to balance personally, Cold might end up like Thermal, Time and Dark are gonna be good yet not what I want pair with Symph atm.

[CamdenJaxx]

Just popping in to say that the effects from Aria of Stasis are awesome looking!

[Voltak]

On 7/12/2022 at 11:57 PM, Voltak said:

As with other Single Target Confuse, strategically, I would like for the dmg component of the ST confuse in the new control Symphonic to go away.
The strategic use of confuse is hampered by the ST confuse now doing dmg. Since it now does dmg, the group around the target will become aggro'd.
There is no need and no one is asking for the ST confuse to dmg anything.
Traditionally confuse is not done with the hopes to aggro the group Seeds of COnfusion is different because it is AoE and it is short recharge. But single target confuse...
Still time to change this.
We don't need the dmg to remain, right? 
Would love to keep all ST confuse to work the same, no aggro.  
Much better than for it to do dmg and aggro the group.  
Leaves less options on how to open a group. 

Please, Devs, do this change. This will NOT make Symphonic Control OP.  This will not break the game. 
Implementing this change will allow greater options on how to open a group. 
Hardly anyone is going to miss or feel the need for the ST confuse to do dmg. 
 

[TygerDarkstorm]

3 hours ago, ExeErdna said:

That's what I was thinking when I rolled up Sonic with Symph it just works, If you want to kick back and simply play that pair is a great time.

Bleeding edge to me with Symph might be rolling it with Thermal, since will Forge bring up Reverb's echos to be more potent than what I'm able to do damage wise. It'll be a more busy setup. Even though I still gotta test it's interactions with Storm.

Elec would be decent but busy, Rad and Nature might be the hardest pairings to balance personally, Cold might end up like Thermal, Time and Dark are gonna be good yet not what I want pair with Symph atm.

That's kind of why I went with /Sonic, not just to kick back, but to have a more hands off secondary that lets me utilize the stuff from Symphony more. As a bonus, it makes the Reverb more tanky as well and makes mobs easier to kill. 

 

I still can't get Symphony to work on a dominator. I know it's something on my end--I'm not building it right or playing it right or something--but my doms keep crumpling and feel like they're doing less damage than my controller. Seemed like Symphony/Energy might have some synergy, and maybe it does when built right.

[Shin Magmus]

1 hour ago, Voltak said:

Please, Devs, do this change. This will NOT make Symphonic Control OP.  This will not break the game. 
Implementing this change will allow greater options on how to open a group. 
Hardly anyone is going to miss or feel the need for the ST confuse to do dmg. 
 

The ST Confuse and the AoE Sleep both need to not do damage to work properly.  This is established knowledge that we all already have from playing the game.  People, don't test this set at lv12 on SO's, test it at lv50 with a finished build including your damaging Interface proc like Reactive.  Then use a damaging Sleep and tell me with a straight face that it works: it doesn't.  It's just a glorified attack with extra optional Sleep set self-heal procs and/or Placate procs.  I... don't get how the devs messed up on these things.  We already know that Flash Freeze is basically worthless because of this interaction while Mass Hypnosis is actually good and has been used by Dominators soloing content to great effect.  This is something we don't have to guess or theorize on, because we have years of experience with how these powers work.  Just remove the damage from the Confuse and the Sleep, and honestly make the Sleep a stronger power in general like Elec Control's pulsing sleep.

[Mezmera]

46 minutes ago, ShinMagmus said:

The ST Confuse and the AoE Sleep both need to not do damage to work properly.  This is established knowledge that we all already have from playing the game.

 

The confuse is fine as it is.  This set is already quite powerful without that confuse and then you toss that in as an extra tool at your disposal you're quite well off with this control. 

 

How something should work does not need to be dependent on how Mind Control's powers work, or Dark Control or Plant, this is Symphony Control and should behave on its own separate terms.  

 

The sleep could use modified so that it feels like it would get more functional use but I don't think it's damage component is the problem.  And yet it's still a good power to have in its current form you'll just have to adapt to how it plays rather than how it should play.  

 

They've been tuning this set for quite a while, we've seen it a few days.  It feels quite good to me that I can really only pick out the sleep as less than ideal so I'm going to acquiesce to how they see that they want Symphony Control to play.  

Edited July 16, 2022 by Mezmera

[alabaster]

On 7/12/2022 at 6:12 PM, Dreamkeeper said:

Echoing a comment already made, while the set seems really exciting (did some quick tinkering), a version without the music notes animations would help a lot with creativity/make the set feel a bit less "specific" to certain character themes.

I think I'm coming at this from a reverse angle, the Symphony set feels rather similar to the Mind Control set to the point I'm wondering if these animations would be better served as an alternate animation set for Mind Control and jettison this music-based set entirely.  It feels too specific to be its own set and with all the confuses, sleeps, fears, and psionic damage its fairly close to Mind Control anyways.