issue 27 Focused Feedback: Symphony Control

[Voltak]

On 7/27/2022 at 10:38 AM, KaizenSoze said:

Yes, Symphony has some damage and Storm has buckets of it. I will be trying that combo out today.

 

At this point, I think Symphony is best as a controller set. Provides damage that controllers need, the soft nature of most of the controls does hurt as much because controllers can build good defense.

I agreed with your evaluation and your thoughts on Symphony control regarding Doms (you wrote that out in Discord) 

On dominators the set is just sub-standard, especially if grinding it from lvl 1. 

Plenty of insps and keeping it at +0 is the way to go 

BUt on a controller... I also agree with everyone here. 
On a controller Symphony control shines thanks to the secondaries available 

Trick Arrow
Storm
Traps
Nature
Just great

Edited August 4, 2022 by Voltak

[ChzBoi]

...so, I originally was suspect of the confuse change....but after further testing here - it changes the way I play a controller from the 'same old-same old' to something new.

 

No longer suspect. A small cheesy vote of approval! 👍

[TygerDarkstorm]

On 8/4/2022 at 4:11 PM, Voltak said:

I agreed with your evaluation and your thoughts on Symphony control regarding Doms (you wrote that out in Discord) 

On dominators the set is just sub-standard, especially if grinding it from lvl 1. 

Plenty of insps and keeping it at +0 is the way to go 

BUt on a controller... I also agree with everyone here. 
On a controller Symphony control shines thanks to the secondaries available 

Trick Arrow
Storm
Traps
Nature
Just great

I agree. I liked it on the dom on test, but I think it feels much better on a controller with the secondaries available (you skipped /sonic which actually pairs super well with Symph). I rather enjoy getting to feel so blasty on the controller; it's a set that wants to be used a lot, which doesn't really suit the dom playstyle.

[Seed22]

On 8/4/2022 at 6:11 PM, Voltak said:

I agreed with your evaluation and your thoughts on Symphony control regarding Doms (you wrote that out in Discord) 

On dominators the set is just sub-standard, especially if grinding it from lvl 1. 

Plenty of insps and keeping it at +0 is the way to go 

BUt on a controller... I also agree with everyone here. 
On a controller Symphony control shines thanks to the secondaries available 

Trick Arrow
Storm
Traps
Nature
Just great

Thermal’s great with Symphany too. Buffs your pet’s natural res, and is a great all rounder for teams. 
 

Took mine into a 4* ITF and did great with it. Granted on HM most healy/buffy support sets tend just become buff/heal bots( which sucks and actually makes me very concerned about the implementation of HM as is in general but thats for another thread), but overall the pairing still works great. 

[Rejolt]

On 8/4/2022 at 7:11 PM, Voltak said:

I agreed with your evaluation and your thoughts on Symphony control regarding Doms (you wrote that out in Discord) 

On dominators the set is just sub-standard, especially if grinding it from lvl 1. 

Plenty of insps and keeping it at +0 is the way to go 

BUt on a controller... I also agree with everyone here. 
On a controller Symphony control shines thanks to the secondaries available 

Trick Arrow
Storm
Traps
Nature
Just great

I remember trying not to repeat secondary sets on Controllers from one set to the next but yeah, Trick Arrow makes a lot of sense. I've just made Electric/ and Plant/ TA toons already and have lots of TA toons in other ATs. I love my Dark/Nature troller. So I guess it's Storm or Traps.  

[Wavicle]

Is there any way the -Knock in the immobilizes could be changed so that it still allows knockdown but prevents knockback?

[Captain Powerhouse]

3 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

Is there any way the -Knock in the immobilizes could be changed so that it still allows knockdown but prevents knockback?

 

Just because you ask so nicely, I'll even hop on my time machine, go back a year or so, and do just that!

[Wavicle]

oh am I misunderstanding what the numbers are telling me? Cool!

[Bopper]

4 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

oh am I misunderstanding what the numbers are telling me? Cool!

I assume you're seeing the 10000% KB resistance. That is overkill as KB's max resistance is 99% meaning the foe will have KB magnitude reduced to 1% strength. So unless a person hits the target with over 75 KB, they should always be knocked down instead of back.

[Bionic_Flea]

8 minutes ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

Just because you ask so nicely, I'll even hop on my time machine, go back a year or so, and do just that!

 

Time control confirmed.

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, Bopper said:

I assume you're seeing the 10000% KB resistance. That is overkill as KB's max resistance is 99% meaning the foe will have KB magnitude reduced to 1% strength. So unless a person hits the target with over 75 KB, they should always be knocked down instead of back.

 

yea, I think it has been so long since I thought about those aspects of many immobs and I got a little confused while I was looking around.

[Completist]

On 7/12/2022 at 12:56 PM, The Curator said:

 Dreadful Discord  Ranged (Cone), Minor DMG(Psionic), Fear

When flying, the Dreadful Discord effect shoots out in front of you instead of aiming down at your targets. 

 

Also, it bugs me that the power notes refer to Damage over Time as "dot" but I assume/hope that will be fixed before everything is baked in. 

 

Really neat powerset.

[Bionic_Flea]

[Bug] - Reverberant refuses to use Enfeebling Lullaby at range.  If that is the only power he has active, he will not attack at all unless he is within 15 feet or so of the target.  He seems to accept all other attacks and use them at the appropriate range.

[Mezmera]

1 hour ago, Bionic_Flea said:

[Bug] - Reverberant refuses to use Enfeebling Lullaby at range.  If that is the only power he has active, he will not attack at all unless he is within 15 feet or so of the target.  He seems to accept all other attacks and use them at the appropriate range.

 

Maybe the Reverberant didn't take too kindly to you telling it to roll over prior.  It's likely showing you who the real pet is...

[Wavicle]

On 8/6/2022 at 11:57 AM, ChzBoi said:

...so, I originally was suspect of the confuse change....but after further testing here - it changes the way I play a controller from the 'same old-same old' to something new.

 

No longer suspect. A small cheesy vote of approval! 👍

 

You mean about this confuse having damage and aggro? Yea, I was also originally wary, but I like it.

[ExeErdna]

Did something change with the Reverberant's aggression? Since I saw the confusion and stun got buff yet didn't have time to test until last night/this morning. From those tests the Pet is now acting more like the Grav pet where it'll sit behind me instead of being more independent. The confusion and stun buffs are amazing. Yet what happened to the Pet are not, since it feels like it isn't doing anything in a fight until it gets down to a lot less enemies on screen. When before I was able to buff it out and it'll charge into the middle of an active mob and shred. It feels like I can't rely on it anymore, why I'm I buffing it out if isn't gonna move...

Edited August 13, 2022 by ExeErdna

[Starhammer]

I would like to echo the chorus of voices about having alternate animations without notes, as well as having notes made available to other sonic powers as an option. Both sound wonderful.
I would also love to see some alternate animations made available. The palm-thrust and cast animations in many other sets... as well as the "fling" that gets used with Throwing Knives (which would also make a nice "backhand slap" as a Boxing alternative). Not saying I want to replicate that fight scene in that strange wizard movie, but that did look really good, and having access to some of that choreography would be nice.

[TygerDarkstorm]

1 hour ago, ExeErdna said:

Did something change with the Reverberant's aggression? Since I saw the confusion and stun got buff yet didn't have time to test until last night/this morning. From those tests the Pet is now acting more like the Grav pet where it'll sit behind me instead of being more independent. The confusion and stun buffs are amazing. Yet what happened to the Pet are not, since it feels like it isn't doing anything in a fight until it gets down to a lot less enemies on screen. When before I was able to buff it out and it'll charge into the middle of an active mob and shred. It feels like I can't rely on it anymore, why I'm I buffing it out if isn't gonna move...

Aw man, I just logged onto the beta after seeing this (haven't been on in a while) and loaded up my Symph/Sonic troller. And man, you weren't kidding. Part of the reason I was enjoying this combo was because the Verb was acting as a mini tank for me with the sonic buffs. I even picked up Enflame in Sorcery for this reason, but yeah, now he's just lagging behind and feels like he's deploying his attacks slower than before. He went from being pretty awesome to kinda meh. What happened?

[Booper]

1 hour ago, ExeErdna said:

Did something change with the Reverberant's aggression?

 

33 minutes ago, TygerDarkstorm said:

What happened?

 

It was mentioned as a change in the Build 3 the patch notes, however it was accidentally left out of that build and introduced in this build instead. These patch notes will need to fix that omission. 

 

To answer your question, the AI behavior of the pet has changed from Base AI to Range Preferred AI. This should result in the pet not trying to run into melee range so often which should also help maximize coverage with its cone attacks along with a few other benefits.

[TygerDarkstorm]

44 minutes ago, Booper said:

 

 

It was mentioned as a change in the Build 3 the patch notes, however it was accidentally left out of that build and introduced in this build instead. These patch notes will need to fix that omission. 

 

To answer your question, the AI behavior of the pet has changed from Base AI to Range Preferred AI. This should result in the pet not trying to run into melee range so often which should also help maximize coverage with its cone attacks along with a few other benefits.

Hrm, I get the idea to maximize the cone coverage, but it really doesn't feel like it's playing nearly as well as before. It tends to not want to interact at all and lags way behind me whereas before it would get involved. If this new behavior is intended, then I'm not sure /Sonic will remain a good pairing for Symph outside of teaming. I will have to figure out if I want to keep that secondary, and figure out how to change my strategy now that the Verb's behavior has changed. If he's going to stay this way then he needs some Adderall or something to wake him up, because as is, my controller felt significantly weaker and less fun, and that was at -1 Council (forgot I had level shifted the character and thus had my difficulty still set at +0/x4).

[Wavicle]

This is a lot to ask, but it seems logical:

 

Change the cones to AoEs and revert the AI shift. The set should pair as well with /Sonic as possible.

[ExeErdna]

3 hours ago, TygerDarkstorm said:

Hrm, I get the idea to maximize the cone coverage, but it really doesn't feel like it's playing nearly as well as before. It tends to not want to interact at all and lags way behind me whereas before it would get involved. If this new behavior is intended, then I'm not sure /Sonic will remain a good pairing for Symph outside of teaming. I will have to figure out if I want to keep that secondary, and figure out how to change my strategy now that the Verb's behavior has changed. If he's going to stay this way then he needs some Adderall or something to wake him up, because as is, my controller felt significantly weaker and less fun, and that was at -1 Council (forgot I had level shifted the character and thus had my difficulty still set at +0/x4).

 

Yeah before that pet would normally stand in front of me which allowed it to work well with Sonic and Kin. When I hopped back on I finally got to setup Thermal and Storm. Yet it doesn't attack because it standing behind me which means it's out of the range for those cones since I did notice it was only doing the ST hold and confusion. The pet was so much better when it was aggressive. It would stare down Malta Zeus' having them controlled while I clean up the easier ones.

[TygerDarkstorm]

4 hours ago, Wavicle said:

This is a lot to ask, but it seems logical:

 

Change the cones to AoEs and revert the AI shift. The set should pair as well with /Sonic as possible.

I mean, I certainly wouldn't want Symphony to get some sort of special treatment just because the secondary I chose to pair it with is no longer optimal. If this is really how the devs want the set to go, then I need to either work around it, or scrap the character and reroll with a diff secondary when the page goes live. I'm disappointed, of course, but not looking for special treatment from the devs.

 

Frankly it feels like the pet got nerfed all around as I'm seeing other posts of Symph users now saying it lags behind and is not firing off attacks as intended.

 

@ExeErdna I caught your post as I was working up this reply and am glad to see I'm not the only one kind of disappointed in this change (or using /Sonic as a secondary for Symph lol). Reverb being put on the ranged AI feels like a nerf to the pet's utility and usefulness. My troller doesn't have the confuse power, but I definitely felt like it was really only copying my attacks when I would fire off the single target ones, and like it wasn't using the cones at all. 

I feel like this change to the pet won't affect dom's as much since the pet doesn't feel as useful on them and they get the assault secondaries, but it definitely hurts some troller combos. Or maybe it just makes me a noob that the pet now won't close in and tank for me, idk, but I really liked the original implementation/AI for Reverb. It certainly neuters a set like /Sonic's ability to solo though since on live I won't have all the freebies I gave the toon on Brainstorm, like accolades, incarnates, IO sets, etc.

 

@Booper @Captain Powerhouse Is there some sort of happy medium for the Reverb? I understand wanting it to better utilize the cone attacks, but it currently doesn't even seem to be doing that. It just lags around even more than the issues it was having before and rarely engaging in combat, often waiting until you've waded into a spawn, or only firing off the single target attacks, resulting in the effects listed above in my post. It went from awesome to "meh, might skip."

Edited August 13, 2022 by TygerDarkstorm
fixed a word

[Bionic_Flea]

The trick to playing it, as it is now, is to get the Rev within it's range to fire the cones.  So you need to move at least a few feet closer.

 

Alternatively, if the AI could be fixed such that he moves just into range that would be even better -- not a suicide pet jumping into melee range and not a passive pet watching you while you work.

[Wavicle]

I’m just concerned about the basic design of the pet. Other controller and dominator pets help by doing stuff while you can’t. This pet won’t do anything unless you do it first. It better be really good at that or else this won’t be Mind Control but with a pet, it’ll just be Mind Control without Mass Confuse.