issue 27 Focused Feedback: Advanced Difficulty - Imperious Task Force

[Bionic_Flea]

3 hours ago, Jacke said:

 

Imperious Task Force, as mentioned in this thread's title.  It's the Task Force in Cimerora, Levels 35 to 50.

He's kidding.  EV has run the ITF more times than probably anyone else.

[EnjoyTheJourney]

Before asking "What is ITF", there's a more basic and important question.

 

How do you spell ITF?

[Marshal_General]

On 7/23/2022 at 8:32 AM, EV-300 said:

What is ITF?

International Tango Federation

 

Rommie just wants a dance partner.

[Ukase]

Ran this again, with an entirely different group. We were actually doing well until the two robots; we just didn't have the dps to take them down, primarily due to allowing anyone to come as they were; rather than looking for specific team comp. But, we felt like that was worth exploring; to see how any old team might fare. 

 

My feedback in this is specifically about the hardest difficulty of the "hard mode itf". 

My primary concern is that a number of folks will simply get frustrated. In our case, we were two hours in, taking our time. Just to get to the end of the third mission. Fortunately, we know the strategy, but we just lacked the dps, so we used an auto-complete in the pop-menu to complete it. So, kudos for having that. 

Approaching the court yard in the last mission, the splash messages were just a bit too fast for me to read -  I caught one about the hostless nictus, but I read something about Judgement, I think, but not sure. I checked my system chat, and didn't see anything there, either, but I could have missed it. Maybe a slower fade of the text could be possible? 

 

All in all, I like it sooooo much more than the standard ITF, despite the same idiot npcs screaming all the time. But it is lengthy on the hardest mode. My legs are stiff and need a stretch; it's just not a good idea for any human to remain seated for two hours, which is probably the worst characteristic about it. Hopefully when folks get more accustomed to it, and I'm on a team with more dps, it won't take that long. 

As for the rewards, there really isn't enough rewards for the hard mode as it stands. These 10 aether new currency things - I've no idea what those things are gonna be worth, so I can't properly evaluate them. From where I sit, you need a certain number for badges, but beyond that, they're worthless to me. I strongly encourage you to do away with this new currency and allot more emp merits for it. If not, still allow more emp merits and/or reward merits. 

 

I say that not remembering if any additional emp merits were awarded that I missed; it's possible. I wasn't smart enough to look how many I had before I started. I just know that one emp is a slap in the face. As it stands now, I would run it to get the badges I needed, and not run it again because of the length of it. 

From a reward merit standpoint, the hard mode should give out at least what Dr. Q does, given the time it takes to complete. I suppose some can be discounted to allow for emp merits, but just getting the reward table at the end and only getting one lousy emp merit, it won't be long before folks head back to Unai Kemen and actively farm the Freaks for vet levels. There definitely needs to be far more emp merits awarded for completion of the Relentless ITF. 
Would it be possible to give folks an option on what they'd rather have? Emps or Aethers or Reward Merits? I'd rather buy the Aethers on the AH and have more emps. But, that's just me. 


 

 

 

[Sovera]

9 hours ago, Ukase said:

Ran this again, with an entirely different group. We were actually doing well until the two robots; we just didn't have the dps to take them down, primarily due to allowing anyone to come as they were; rather than looking for specific team comp. But, we felt like that was worth exploring; to see how any old team might fare.

 

This has been an unfortunate common occurrence with CoH. How very common to see old PvP end in draws as people were unable to defeat each other, and even now we still find AVs as stops. Not because they hit hard, or have hard mechanics, or patterns that need to be learned, but just because they have too much regen.

 

Out of curiosity did your team try to bail and return with envenomed daggers? Would it have made a difference? Do they even stack from between members? It could become a new norm to remind everyone to bring a stack of those before entering the new difficulty modes.

[Ukase]

36 minutes ago, Sovera said:

 

This has been an unfortunate common occurrence with CoH. How very common to see old PvP end in draws as people were unable to defeat each other, and even now we still find AVs as stops. Not because they hit hard, or have hard mechanics, or patterns that need to be learned, but just because they have too much regen.

 

Out of curiosity did your team try to bail and return with envenomed daggers? Would it have made a difference? Do they even stack from between members? It could become a new norm to remind everyone to bring a stack of those before entering the new difficulty modes.

Fair question, but let me try to explain a few things about the Relentless setting.  (the hardest level) *** Sorry, it's called Invincible, not Relentless. 

The only inspirations that will work are awakens. 
No temp powers - so envenomed daggers, shivans, the usual tips and tactics to overcome AVs when you're solo don't apply here. I think, if I'd been on my fire/rad instead of my water/sonic, there's a chance it might have been different, but no real way to know that without spending another 2+ hours with the same folks, and I don't see that happening. 

It's a strange thing. On some master runs, you die, no master. Some master runs, you can die a million times as long as you complete certain badge objectives. For the hard mode, clearly double digit defeats are going to be par for the course. My first run, we sped it, had 77 defeats, took 45 minutes. But we had way more dps, and candidly, a far better player skill in my estimation. It may be harsh, and I've no way to prove it, but in the first run, I probably brought down the skill level of the team (when it comes to game mechanics, hand/eye coordination, player reflexes, that sort of thing.) On this team, I was bringing up the average. But that's pure conjecture based on nothing but my anecdotal experience with the players involved. 

I had been getting all sorts of t-3 reds to use, but they were disabled, due to the difficulty setting. The one thing that I wish I'd thought of that might have worked might have been empowerment buffs from an SG base, but it was on the test server and I haven't set up an SG base there. But, even then, those are primarily a specific resistance type of protection, but the increase end recovery, perception and attack speed could have helped at least a little bit. But, they are a temp power and are disabled. (just loaded in to double check and confirm - they won't work.)  

Edited August 2, 2022 by Ukase

[Linea]

The average random team 4-star (aka relentless) itf has been running me 3 hours 150 deaths.  This is probably what you should expect and plan for going in.

It's been run 4-star in less than 40 minutes.  With the recent changes I expect that time to get even shorter.

 

[Mezmera]

13 hours ago, Ukase said:

As for the rewards, there really isn't enough rewards for the hard mode as it stands. These 10 aether new currency things - I've no idea what those things are gonna be worth, so I can't properly evaluate them. From where I sit, you need a certain number for badges, but beyond that, they're worthless to me. I strongly encourage you to do away with this new currency and allot more emp merits for it. If not, still allow more emp merits and/or reward merits. 

 

I think this is a part of what the old live team got somewhat right.  These aether things are for costume overlays, but in a game with so much customizability afforded you who wants to put on someone else's full costume?  On live you had to run the itf to get access to the parts of the roman costumes, there was the ascension costume you had to unlock through incarnate stuff.  

 

I know the HC team doesn't want to feel like they are gatekeeping any costumes but having a bunch of costume pieces available for unlock you can use to enhance your look would do real well to attract people to run these new things they want people to try.  If we could unlock the Seer robes or Desdemona's boots or something trading in these aether things I'm sure a bunch of people would look to run all of these new higher difficulty content.  They could still keep the trade in low enough so that it wouldn't take forever for someone to get a bunch of pieces even with running them at the 1-star.  Things like this would attract people to your content and a bit more away from AE.  Food for thought.  

Edited August 2, 2022 by Mezmera

[Sovera]

17 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

 

I think this is a part of what the old live team got somewhat right.  These aether things are for costume overlays, but in a game with so much customizability afforded you who wants to put on someone else's full costume?  On live you had to run the itf to get access to the parts of the roman costumes, there was the ascension costume you had to unlock through incarnate stuff.  

 

I know the HC team doesn't want to feel like they are gatekeeping any costumes but having a bunch of costume pieces available for unlock you can use to enhance your look would do real well to attract people to run these new things they want people to try.  If we could unlock the Seer robes or Desdemona's boots or something trading in these aether things I'm sure a bunch of people would look to run all of these new higher difficulty content.  They could still keep the trade in low enough so that it wouldn't take forever for someone to get a bunch of pieces even with running them at the 1-star.  Things like this would attract people to your content and a bit more away from AE.  Food for thought.  

 

Preach it. I loathe full body costumes since being introduced to them by GW2 when their dev team got lazy (AKA it was easier and more money to abandon at the time the current system of armor pieces to replace by a full size outfit). Nothing has really changed. Even in GW2 that allows to at least mess around a bit with the colors of full size outfits people still look like clones even if not to the extreme of game's like WoW that have no dyes.

 

But on one hand it also makes the reward not so good that people feel forced to do it such as when rewards are placed in PvP or raids (which this can count as one). Too good a reward and people feel forced to do it.

 

As it is it has a definite reward (if few do it then the costumes will be rare and can be sold accordingly) on top of the other rewards for the extra difficulty. Either to be used or sold.

 

 

You're right on the money that pretty seer robes or whatever could and would serve better as account unlocks though. All things considered goals are nice to log in and chip at, be it farming 50 mill for some IOs or unlocking costume pieces.

[Thrax]

Sign up sheet going around to get people doing this!

[MoonSheep]

3 hours ago, Thrax said:

Sign up sheet going around to get people doing this!

 

i’d be up for joining in sunday evening UK time, any runs happening then?

[MoonSheep]

i had a go at the ITF solo on Rugged difficulty, first on a dark/dark/dark tank and then an ice/shield/elec scrapper

 

the new difficulty setting increases the difficulty quite noticeably - the added attacks from the enemies creates an additional challenge via the debuffs applied and i can see it requiring support ATs a lot more, as opposed to filling a team with DPS characters and hoping for the best

 

shield has always been quite weak in the ITF, the resistance based tank survived a lot better - hopefully this will be a new age for resistance based characters and buffs

 

looking forward to running it on max difficulty on live when it comes out. i often run an ITF most evenings, having a new challenge to it will be really exciting

[Voltor]

On 8/2/2022 at 11:18 AM, Linea said:

The average random team 4-star (aka relentless) itf has been running me 3 hours 150 deaths.  This is probably what you should expect and plan for going in.

It's been run 4-star in less than 40 minutes.  With the recent changes I expect that time to get even shorter.

 

 

When I run these on live, at least for the first week, I will ask the team if they have run the new settings yet either on beta or live.  If most say No, then I will ask if they want it set to +1 so they get an idea of the new challenges or go +4 and prepare to be wiped a lot. 🙂

[Mezmera]

On 8/5/2022 at 1:55 PM, MoonSheep said:

shield has always been quite weak in the ITF

 

What are you on about now?  You must not be taking the right powers if your Shield tank is weak on this.  Take all the powers in Shield, don't just take Shield Charge, and get some bonuses.  In fact just delete your Shield tank right nao, bad enough I have to share Mind doms with you.  

[MoonSheep]

4 hours ago, Mezmera said:

 

What are you on about now?  You must not be taking the right powers if your Shield tank is weak on this.  Take all the powers in Shield, don't just take Shield Charge, and get some bonuses.  In fact just delete your Shield tank right nao, bad enough I have to share Mind doms with you.  

 

i find the -def debuff strips my scrapper in seconds

[Mezmera]

2 hours ago, MoonSheep said:

 

i find the -def debuff strips my scrapper in seconds

 

Ah well yeah scrapper of course, can't reach high DDR values on that thing.  Might wanna look into the melee hybrid and ageless for a shield scrapper.  And put more stank on that Shield Charge.

[MoonSheep]

7 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

 

Ah well yeah scrapper of course, can't reach high DDR values on that thing.  Might wanna look into the melee hybrid and ageless for a shield scrapper.  And put more stank on that Shield Charge.

 

it’s quite an experience, after i die they pickup my shield and beat me with it further 

 

when i rez it’s crumped up like a baking tray that’s been run over by a bus

[Linea]

13 hours ago, MoonSheep said:

i find the -def debuff strips my scrapper in seconds

WIth enough recharge and ageless +ddr T4 you should be able to perma cap DDR.   I don't even think it takes that much recharge.

[Ruin Mage]

The extra merit rewards seem a bit much. I think they should be cut in half.

(/jk)
 

[TorrentYed]

Running on Heroic difficulty, additional encounters and cutscenes still triggered.

 

1) The Colossi battle with Vandal afterwards:

 

2) The Romulus cutscene post-defeat:

 

3) Note that the additional battle was not actually accessible, and neither did the mission objectives update:

 

[Cobalt Arachne]

12 minutes ago, TorrentYed said:

Running on Heroic difficulty, additional encounters and cutscenes still triggered.

Good find, especially on a release candidate, those HM-only conditional triggers were definitely working at one point, I'll have to dig into what changed.

Thanks!

[Marshal_General]

So now that people have been abused by it a few times, what do you think would be ideal ATs and sets needed to fill a party?

 

What ATs and sets seem to be the worse to bring? I have seen mind control being lacking, but that is nothing new.

[Seed22]

1 hour ago, Marshal_General said:

So now that people have been abused by it a few times, what do you think would be ideal ATs and sets needed to fill a party?

 

What ATs and sets seem to be the worse to bring? I have seen mind control being lacking, but that is nothing new.

Anything works really, this isn’t Aeon.

 

I brought a therm and did good, and seeing that it’s just ITF with extra steps, what’s brought now should suffice. 
 

‘course, you’ll want to be T4’ed depending on the star rating, but the usual teams( of course everyone should be 50 too :P) should in theory work for this, from my experience. 

[Mezmera]

1 hour ago, Marshal_General said:

So now that people have been abused by it a few times, what do you think would be ideal ATs and sets needed to fill a party?

 

What ATs and sets seem to be the worse to bring? I have seen mind control being lacking, but that is nothing new.

 

I'd say a Regen scrapper would be the best to bring on this.  Not only will you net the team constant Vengeance but any Regen doppelgangers that the Hostless hijack will be an easy kill.  

[Ruin Mage]

The worse set to bring is clearly Mind Control.